Purple_City39

49 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Boldin production for most part was pretty average for a guy that was suppose to be The Ravens number one  receiver and even though he was more skilled as a receiver Torrey Smith was the one defenders were afraid of the most.  Boldin did his thing in the playoffs and the  super bowl but letting him go wouldn't have look as dumb as some Ravens seem to  believe if Tandon Doss stepped up and  if Dennis Pitta hip never got injured in training camp. I don't think The Ravens miss Boldin nearly as much if those two things happen especially with the situation with Pitta but Boldin still got replaced any way when The Ravens signed Steve Smith Sr.

I've said this same thing before.  The 2013 plan, similar to 2017 actually, was to have your two speed guys on the outside (Torrey and Jacoby) and have your chain mover in the slot.  Pitta was set to pick up that slack for Anquan with Rice still doing his thing with checkdowns.  Realistically, that wasn't a bad set up.  They also hoped backups like Deonte Thompson and Tandon Doss would take their play to the next level.

Then Pitta dislocated his hip in camp, Jacoby went down in week 1, Thompson had either an illness or a foot injury (I forget) Rice regressed, and Doss never stepped up.  End result, Ravens fans blaming everything on trading Boldin and ignoring the many factors that actually happened.

Also, SSS was a far better WR for the Ravens than Boldin and would have likely never came in 2014 if Anquan wasn't traded (and all those issues happening) in 2013.

I'm going to agree that 5 spots isn't worth it.  You're giving up a decent interior pass rusher and good run stopper, for 5 spots.  I'd rather they just let him ball out in a contract year, and leave and get an entirely new draft pick for him.

they could trade a 5th or 6th to move up 5 spots and I definitely think Timmy, in a contract year, is worth more than a 5th or 6th.

50 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

Man I hope Josh Gordon is reinstated and then released. Homeboy is looking JACKED. 

I actually hope the Ravens offer Cleveland a 7th, or even 6th, and they take it.

Gordon is an interesting prospect right now.  He's one mistake from a permanent ban so he can't cost all that much, even if he balls out this year and needs a contract next season (I don't know his current contract length).  At the same time, I think he might have matured since he was actually reinstated last year and withdrew himself to go to rehab. That takes some growing up imo.  And yeah, he's ripped right now. 

He has the potential to be so dominant if he can keep his head on straight

Yeah, I said this on another post, in regards to the ILB #2.  Since the switch to the 3-4 base defense, the Ravens have had one 1st round LB and one undrafted free agent as the two starters from 2005 to 2012 after Ray retired.  2014 again added that 1st round round ILB #1.  I've hated the possibility that we'd draft an ILB in round one (many were hopeful at one point) when this front office has beyond proven they can spot talent at the second ILB position and this team has bigger needs that should rank higher on the BPA board at 16

I never thought they'd pay both Williams and Jernigan (and would have rather kept Timmy between the two) but I definitely still thought he'd at least finish out his rookie deal here.  Maybe they'll give Pierce his spot.  I'm curious as to what they could get for him

In all honesty, I see what the front office is doing and it's not a bad idea.  They are basically doing the same thing Pittsburgh did, but opposite.  The Steelers kept throwing talent on the offensive side while ignoring the defense. Now they are paying those players to retain them while focusing on defense.  It lead to an AFC Championship appearance and three straight years of playoff appearances after missing two in a row (2012 and 2013).

The Ravens have focused on defense, likely to combat that Steelers offense (which, if we're being honest, they've done better than most teams).  As of now, the only defensive starters we have over the age of 28 are Weddle (32) and Carr (30).  Possibly McClellan depending on who's the "starter" next to Mosely as of March 21st, 2017.  The only backups over 28 is Levine (29).  That's 4 total defensive players over the age of 28.  They've built a young defense that can spend the next few years contending with, and limiting, those top AFC offenses like Pittsburgh, New England, and Oakland. 

Now, they can focus on offensive youth in the draft and add more going forward in free agency.  And if they are really focused on regaining a power run game, then having the type of defense they just built could have this team once again looking like the 08 Ravens, but with a more a better and more experienced version of the rookie QB who made it to the Championship round on the back of the defense and run game.

The more I've thought about it, the more I'll be surprised if WR is NOT the pick at 16.  Maybe if all 3 are taken before hand.  Davis has ridiculous potential, Williams is already pro-ready and could be a dominant intermediate threat, and Ross is looking like a less feisty and younger Steve Smith Sr.  If all three are gone, I'd expect an edge rusher to round out the defense and a WR in the second (Zay Jones).

Sorry for the long post but, to me, it looks like the front office is building something that's slowly coming to fruition.  It'll come down to the finalized o-line imo

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

Kind of, yes, but no one knows the real formula.  It's some combination of salary, playing time, and accolades (pro bowl, awards, etc.).  However, in this case, we're just determining comp pick eligibility.  The simple math adds up to us being in line for 2 comp picks.  Just to use a player as an example, should Aiken's salary fall below the 32 cut off, we'd only get 1 comp pick.

This prediction shows a good example of contracts that fall under the cut.

https://overthecap.com/projecting-2017-compensatory-draft-picks/

Should have read this post first.  Okay, as I already knew, the contract amount does factor.  Didn't know there was a max of 32 comp picks though.  That's interesting.  That chart suggests that you may always be eligible for at least a 7th so long as there aren't 32 or more higher contracts above the player you lost.  Maybe you do get something regardless (so long as it's within the 32)

25 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

To be honest I really don't know how it's computed. I know it isn't simple math, but may have to do with contract values, playing time and pro bowl appearances as well I think.

Yeah, those things definitely contribute to how high of a pick you get, with the highest being a 3rd rounder.  I just can't remember if there's a floor or not.  I don't think it's an automatic comp pick for losing a player, I believe they have to reach a specific set of qualifiers starting with contract amount.  I'm just not positive on it

27 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Well Kamar Aiken is gone on a prove it deal to Indy. So with regard to comp picks, where do we stand? We lost Wagner, Juice, Ducasse, Aiken and Guy and have signed Jefferson, Carr and Woodhead. We are 2 up on the comp pick count right?

Isn't there some sort of qualification on this also?  The player must have x amount of time played and the contract must be x amount of money.  If someone knows, please share that info.

8 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

That part I do get. Doom doesn't count but Wagner does. The part I don't get is why Ducase counts but Orr doesn't. And why do the Cowboys have dead money if Carr counts against the comp formula?

Orr won't count because he retired as opposed to went to another team.  Same reason SSS won't count.

The Cowboys dead money for Carr.......is actually a great question.  I just noticed they have 2.7M allocated to dead cap for him, per "over the cap", and that honestly doesn't make sense to me

EDIT:  Grimm explained it. 

I see people still want a CB in the first round.  I definitely want Davis/Williams in the first and then, as mentioned above, grabbing Jones in the 2nd or 3rd to stash for a year.  The Cowboys were willing to spend a 2nd on Jaylon Smith and he'll help them this year.  Grab Sidney Jones on day 2 and play him in 2018

Hmm.  I'd assume this signing takes CB off the first round target list, but I wonder if the Ravens will try and grab Sidney Jones in the second or early third as a "planning for the future" pick

3 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I believe the Ravens have a clear plan that we aren't privy to. I am baffled at the move with no corresponding move to supplement the loss. So here's my theory. Either the Ravens believe they're going to get somebody from another team in a trade or have intelligence that a certain player is a potential cut they can target, it is weird. I don't think either Urschel or Jensen are upgrades to Zuttah. In fact an argument can be made they're downgrades. The offense is essentially empty. No replacements for SSS, Wagner, Juice and now Zuttah. We'll see what moves they make over the next few days...

'

Everything going on, to me, looks like the Ravens are purely focused on the run.  On both sides of the ball.  We sign a great in the box safety and re-sign our NT, while letting the RT who was an excellent pass blocker go because he wasn't a strong run blocker.  And now trading the center who go zero push in the run game.

I'm going to guess that Jensen ends up the starting center because he's considered a "mauler".  I know a lot of people remember that one play, but run blocking is pretty much his main strength..

My main question is RT.  I really don't know much about Wesly or Nembot, and Alex Lewis is essentially  Rick Wagner-lite if moved to RT, but way cheaper

5 hours ago, Ravens4l said:

I have been a Baltimore Ravens fan for many years.  Through the years I have stuck by our team time and time again through trades, releases, draft picks, etc.

However, our selections are getting ridiculous!!  First of all, Our DEFENSE is amazing so stop looking for more DE's.  Our DEFENSE is not broken it is our OFFENSE!!

Joe Flacco is a horrible QB!! He doesn't run out of the pocket almost ever and he just tries to bomb it down field on almost every pass.  He's passer rating is terrible, hell even Jay Cutler did better then him this season.

QBR:

Joe Flacco

84.7

Jay Cutler   

85.7

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_career_passer_rating_leaders

 

I really do like what Harbaugh has done with our team when he took over and he is a Great guy!!  But come on something has to change because besides Flacco being an over-rated poorly producing QB, it is our selections that are driving me nuts as a Ravens fan!!  

Why in the hell do we have 6 Running Backs and 6 Tight Ends on our roster???

RB:

1. Justin Forrsett (who we just let go, and who we will regret letting go!)

2. Kenneth Dixon

3. Javorius Allen

4. Lorenzo Taliaferro

5. Terrance West

6. Danny Woodhead (who we just picked up for some d*mn reason, injury prone!) 

 

Tight Ends:

1. Dennis Pitta

2. Nick Boyle

3. Maxx Williams

4. Ben Watson

5. Darren Waller

6. Crocket Gillmore

 

Curious about a few things.

1. How is your first issue with Flacco that he doesn't run out of the pocket?  He's a pocket passer, not a scrambling QB (although he can and has).

2. "he just tries to bomb it down field on almost every pass" - Did you spend last season watching old games from the Cam Cameron era??

3. How did you bring yourself to include Forsett in the 6 RBs comment while also mentioning that we "just" let him go (about half a year ago)

27 minutes ago, lgcs27288 said:

Please tell me the last time a team traded within their division... please.

It's very rare, but it happens.  Dolphins traded Welker to Patriots.  Eagles traded McNabb to Skins  Steelers traded a future 3rd to Browns for their 4th to draft Shamarko Thomas.  I'm sure there's more.

But again, it's rare, but it happens.  I don't know if this one would, but there's always a chance

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

Nah, next year we re-commit our efforts back to Houston and bring Hopkins

I would lose my mind if we got DeAndre Hopkins next year.  It'd be such a fantastic signing

20 minutes ago, Martin Maryland said:

To be the Top Defense in 2017 Ravens need Shutdown Corner. Besides #22 Jimmy Smith, Ravens do not have elite cornerback.  I would like to see Eric DeCosta & Ozzie Newsome to try to make a deal on Patriots CB Malcolm Butler. We know Pat's traded away their 1st rounder to NO, so their first pick will be at #64. I see an opportunity for Ravens here. Could we make a deal to trade our 1st rounder for Butler? Could we make our secondary better than Seahawks or Broncos? 

I would lose my mind if this happened also, but for the opposite reason.  This would be a huge blunder by the front office to trade the #16 pick for Malcolm Butler

As a follow up, I just looked for that play and can't find it anywhere on video.  So I'm not going to comment, or make guesses, as to how that play occured.

23 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

You dont know cause if you did you would drop this whole sack crap in regards to the 3-4 NT position.

As for your Gregg argument:

williams already has double the amount of sacks gregg has in the play offs while gregg at this point avg about 1 more sack per regular season.

Gregg has played 10 play off games and has 0.5 sacks.
Williams has played 2 play off games and has 1 sack already.

Yet in your eyes Gregg is this amazing pass rusher from the NT position and worthy every penny what williams got but williams is over paid.

heck in 10 play off games gregg has 3 tackles and 4 assist.
Williams in 2 play off games has 5 tackles and 2 assist.

Safe to say that your whole argument about gregg and sacks from the NT position becomes a load of crap once its time for the play offs.

It doesn't freaking matter as it doesn't change my point.  You just found something to grab onto so you could do your usual "swoop in and drop a one-liner" posts.

I don't care the position, I don't care the task, if a player isn't on the field for passing downs, in a passing league, then that player isn't worth almost 11M a season nor are they the best player on the field.  Hell, I know you agree as you're not even arguing the point you jumped in on.  You decided to pick and choose another area so you can......I don't know, feel good about yourself?  Speaking of which:

That's it?  You're going to compare 4 seasons of each of their careers are justify it with a few playoff games?  Amazing.  You really will reach huh?  But since you want to discuss:

In Williams' career as a 3-4 NT (4 seasons), he has 5.5 total sacks including playoffs

In Gregg's first 4 seasons as a 3-4 NT (to keep it even), he had 9.5 sacks.  For the record, I'm also including the entire 2008 season THAT GREGG DIDN'T PLAY DUE TO INJURY.  You can keep digging for ways to cherry pick things to prove your point since a fair comparison hurts your argument.  Three seasons of Greg almost doubles 4 seasons of Williams.  Four full seasons of Gregg actually does that.

But to repeat the main point again, I'll list it in two easy points:

1. In a passing league, if a player only plays 60% of the snaps, for any reason, that player is not worth almost 11M per season, in my opinion (and clearly many others), nor can they be considered the best player on the team

Side note, when I get home I'm going to look up that sack.  I don't remember it so I want to see if Williams simply made a good play or if the QB ran into him trying to escape someone else (or he fell and go touched down).  If it's anything but the former it'll be hilarious to me

25 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

if you cant stop the run , you wont be in obvious passing situations....

also you should really try to figure out what 3-4 NT are supposed to do.

its aint the same as 4-3 DT....

 

 

 

 

You keep saying this as if it changes my original point.  The best player on your team simply can't be someone who's on the field 60% of the snaps, regardless of the reason.  Is this a specific enough statement??

Good god man.  Just because I point out that he comes off the field in passing situations (as a reason I don't like him being paid what he was paid or why I don't think he can be the best player on the team) doesn't equal not knowing what a 3-4 NT does.  And for the record, as already pointed out, we've had two different players play the NT position in the Ravens 3-4 that didn't need to be pulled, but that's not part of the current point you jumped into.

25 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

how many players on this team are in conversation of being the best at their position?

Weddle, Yanda and Tucker are about it quite frankly.

Id take someone who only plays 60% of the snaps but as 1 of the league best over someone who plays 100% of the snaps as one of the leagues worst in a heartbeat.....

Quality over quantity...

Well, clearly the Ravens will too.  But when praising someone as being the best on the team, I remove anyone that has to be removed during obvious passing situations........in a passing league.

50 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

What don't you people understand... cutting or trading flacco is a 47 million cap hit that would force us to cut well over half of our starters and major contributors just to get even with the cap. 

We aren't just trading joe, we are dismantling the ENTIRE TEAM with this move and we aren't just getting rid of joe and drafting players, we would need to draft an entire roster over the next decade and have every early pick go well just to be competitive by the mid 2020s. 

I don't think you get it.  Joe's 24M cap hit is destroying the team and the only way to fix it is to almost double that cap hit while he plays for another team.  With Ryan Mallett at the helm, and Cleveland's 2 first rounders that we'll spend on a DE and WR, we'll dominate the league!!!!  We'll just ask every other player to take a pay cut to mitigate Joe's dead cap hit and I'm sure they'll all do it with a smile.

/sarcasm

13 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

Flacco is 3 or 4  good seasons in a nine year career.  If he needs all those first rounders and talent to be successful at 120 million, then I wish we could trade him to Cleveland. I'm fully aware this is impossible, so the only hope we have is that he retires. 

"All those first rounders".  Really?  The only first rounders he has have both played one season.  How dare a QB need actual talent around him to perform well!!  If he can't win games with leftovers then he shouldn't be in the NFL

/sarcasm

11 minutes ago, Virginia 55 said:

Thank you Brandon Williams!!!! Nice to be able to keep the best player on the defense<<<<Correction--- he is the best player on the team,

......for 60% of the plays?

15 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

If Wagner not allowing no more than 3 sacks matters than  all this talk about how Jeremy Zuttah is  a bad  fit for The Ravens need to stop because he allowed just as many sacks  if i'm not mistaken.  Just because you can't remember the last time we've had RT play as well as Wagner doesn't mean The Ravens won't be able to replace him. Brandon Williams had a down year but profootball focus had him ranked as the highest NT  in the league in 2015. If you want to read more than go here  link .

Whereas Zuttah allowed 3.5 sacks last season, let's also remember that as a center, he almost always has help from a guard.  Wagner as a RT will occasionally get help from a TE, but it's far more rare.

In addition, this is pure numbers that can be researched, but Wagner was not pushed into the backfield even comparably as much as Zuttah.  Jeremy gave our QB little to no room to ever step up into the pocket.  Meanwhile Wagner consistently moved his man out of the play.

And okay, you've called out my memory, so do you remember the last time a RT played as well as Wagner?  Everyone's making RT out to be some easy to replace position and I don't get it.  Especially this year.

11 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Technically Marshal Yanda is the best guard in the league and The Ravens made sure to keep him around. It's not hard to get a  good right tackle at all . I'm sorry but I'm not ready to push the panic button. 

I'm curious about your opinion on something.  When was the last time the Ravens had a truly good RT in your opinion? 

Osemele was a great guard, and great run blocker.  But those 8 sacks allowed and 7 penalties his rookie year at Rt were pretty bad, but he was a rookie I guess..  Oher was as durable as they come, but his performance was always right up there with Osemele's rookie year or worse.  Both very good run blockers but just bad pass blockers.

Meanwhile, Wagner has never allowed even 3 sacks in one season (which is amazing if you remember he allowed 2 in week 1 of 2014) and he's only exceed 3 total penalties 1 (he had 4 in 2015).  He's not a great run blocker, but again, this is a passing league and you need to protect your QB with good pass blockers first.

I can't remember the last time we've had a RT perform at Wagner's level, let alone for as many years as Rick's done it in a row.  I can, however, remember the last time we've had a run stopping DT/NT do a good job of eating up blocks though