thieverycorporation

If the Ravens trade up It shouldn't be for Spence.

Trading up in the first is fools gold. We need all the picks we can get that will pan out. The draft is about to be manipulated by the top teams with draft picks a plenty. I'd aline my choices with the front runners as far as picks. Love them or leave them in the early stages will ring paramount and true. If we like Shepard we'd better go get him. Waiting for scraps in this draft will prove disastrous. Believe me. Handwritting is on the wall. 

Shepard only dude. Ogbah sucks as a #2 btw

To get the guys you want may require manipulation of the draft order on our part. I don't like losing out on premium talent. I think an argument could be made that we've been denied that option for various reasons. The draft positions can't be used as one of them this year. I think the dream scenario would be to move back a couple/few positions grab a second plus and be able to move back into the first round if needed. By Ozzie & co remarks it would seem they are less likely to trade any picks while losing any of their own. Hinges on a lot of factors. Dallas is posturing early. Hopefully we under cut them and beat them at their own game this year.

7 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Sorry forgot Colts.. whose hits were Hilton and Garcon really. Dorsett is a 1st round TBD, but didnt meet expectations so far. Moncrief was a mid-round pick who flashed but hasnt done anything. Brazill had some buzz, but flamed out. Collie was strictly a Manning product. But 4 out of 6 are also higher picks, and really only 2 are standouts anyways. I'm sure in a Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck offense, some of our Malletts, Reeds, Deonte's, Streeters, and Harpers wouldve done more too.

Now name the Ravens acquisitions via the draft.

Kid would be a monster at FS just saying.....

Agreed. Plus we have supporting cast members in the backend. He could be schemed effective in a Pee's defense.

You rebuttal provides much of the explanation. I'd say Seattle, Colts, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Patriots whom you omitted? Cincy and even the lowly Browns have drafted well at the position. One statement you said has credence as they (other then us) have opted to use early round picks to secure that position and sometimes while double dipping. I'd even give the Ravens a pass if they secured a dual threat RB if they chose not to double dip on receiver. An argument can be made that they did at tightend. But the bucket brigade of chain movers isn't the high octane threat in the red zone needed. Nothing can be said other then the Ravens stink/whiffed on multiple picks and the trend up to date continues. I do agree that Engram Has bested his predecessors. The buck stops with Ozzie regardless. He's the GM and owns all picks. Unless it was another teams developmental player we stood no chance. We can debate or list an itemized list but we probably won't agree. History shouldn't be re written nor a skewed as it what is. If there only method of getting better production is to get outside help so be it. But It's not something Ozzie could possibly want on his Resume. There best player available doesn't ring true. 

1 hour ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

You need 90 players in camp. There aren't 90 legitimate players for all 32 teams to have only players with a legit chance of making the team.

and right now with SSS and Aiken being the only 2 WRs who really know the offense and have experience going through our training camp, it doesn't hurt to have another guy with experience who can demonstrate how to perform drills, what coaches are looking for, etc...

--

on the overall discussion... How many legit #1 WRs are there really in the entire NFL? A couple teams have found 2, a good amount have 1, and most teams have a few above average guys. 

The position is just hard to scout. There are some can't miss guys but they go way too high and we've never had a chance in the past 8-10 yrs. otherwise it's a total crap shoot. Some teams seem to excel at drafting WRs but often those guys move on to other teams and flop. 

So I don't think it's so much that, but more so that their offense and QB are tailored to making them look good. That's a testament to those teams, but not necessarily that they're better at drafting the position. 

And looking at the best teams, having a #1 WR is not an indicator of team success. Denver has one but he didn't do anything in the playoffs. Carolina doesn't, Patriots don't really (though Gronk is a beast), Seattle doesnt, we haven't, the 49ers didn't when they were a top team, etc...

if we invested enough resources I'm sure we'd land one too. Since there aren't that many team who even have 1 beast WR it's not like any team is just plucking them off trees.. It's just different styles of team building. 

We build our roster a certain way, and choose to address certain positions differently. Since WR has proven to be a difficult position to project, instead of constantly wasting draft picks into addressing the position we've chosen to grab proven, veteran guys who have something left to prove and that we can get a few years out of, and surround them with a few young guys with a particular skill set. And so far, it's worked in terms of team success. 

I respectfully disagree. Successful teams draft receivers that fit there specific schemes period. Numerous picks that haven't panned out can't be simply explained away. Sure we've have had numerous opportunities to draft difference makers in multiple previous drafts. Diggs in the last one but elected to for go for another position. Just the latest example. It's a crapshoot if you have no idea what in the world your looking for or how to utilize the player. Waiting for a cast off or proven player at one specific position is the hallmark card of a supposed GM genius, is it? The whole draft process lends no guarantee at any position.  That's strange.

42 minutes ago, Cville-Raven said:

You're reading way too much into the team keeping brown. He's a camp body.

We don't need more camp bodies and if you think we do wouldn't it be more effective to have one that hasn't regressed in your current scheme. If he didn't get it then what would lend itself to be different going forth? He didn't suffer a injury as none was reported. He's not effective in getting separation at any level of the field. He will be taking valuable snaps/position from someone that has not been introduced to our schemes. Wasting roster spots isn't a luxury we can afford. Camp bodies should be for those whom have a realistic chance of making the roster. So yeah it worries me that they continue to put valuable time and resources into failed prospects. Especially after declaring that the wait was over for projects after repeated attempts. I say prove it! And low tolerance of some and seemingly elongated periods for others is inconsistent at best. I'm not taking a homer approach about this topic because it seems to help the organization in enabling poor decisions. It's a poor track record period.

No one's going to convince me that the problems we've had aren't due to poor scouting and lack of interest by Ozzie to get the position right. I also think they have under valued the position and solely concentrated on the defense as being the be all end all winning formula. Repeatedly they have opted not to select a wide out in rounds with noted high upside and traits that would suggest a better player. Even when we selected Campanaro it seemed like an after thought. Like oh yeah we need a receiver. But the Biggest part of the problem is the coaching staff obviously over estimates their effectiveness with raw projects and they can't seem to coach up a player. Hanging on to a Brown this year whom hasn't been effective in couple of years straight is alarming. Like why ? It's ridiculous.

Total disfunction exist in this area.

Neither.

Shepard - gritty shifty opportunist.

Bosa relentless motor but so far he has prove he can be effective in space ?

Boyd will strike his on the ground to make a catch

Drake hybrid whom can see holes and hit them.

Henry would bould over opponents in route to goalpost but needs space to operate. Zone blocking lends itself to it.

Hargreaves will make ed reed like plays but must be supported on the backend with smart intelligent safety bait play.

Cravens has ball hawking skills and smouthmouth method of bringing his opponent swiftly to the ground. 

Treadwell plays like Boldin with a bigger body. Utilized correctly mismatch nightmare.

Nkemdeche is a beast with ?'s out the Y-zoo.

Tunsil is baby Ogden with technical upside. Body type for zone but maybe maxxxed out body wise.

the list continues………………………….

  2 hours ago, jravens1313 said:

BPA would not put Stanley at No. 6 overall. Buckner, Hargreaves, and Elliot should all be ranked above him. Not that it is a need, If Ozzie thinks Elliot is a Jamal Lewis type player don't be surprised if we draft him. I would prefer a defensive stud, but you gotta trust our front office. 

I think this is exctly the best and easiest way to basically rule out Ozzie picking Stanley at #6: if he really goes with the BPA, then at #6 it simply cannot be Stanley, because Stanley is in no possible way is as high as #6 on any draft board - including the Ravens'. So, he can't be Ozzie's pick at #6.

Case closed.

I don't know because Ozzie's number one's have been suspect. For real. The only ones singing his praises are media hyper's and fan base. I don't hear other GM's towing the line.

8 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I'm a huge fan of BP as well,  but if don't see him in a preseason game...my optimism will quickly turn into fear.  

No doubt. No doubt. It would be amazing if he reaches his full potential. It all has to click. This could be a nasty year if we put our squad together correctly. Speed Kills.

7 hours ago, Cawtious said:

That's right.  He did take a bell ringer in the 3rd pre-season game, I believe.  He turned an ankle when he was rolled up on in a college game.  He had a carryover elbow issue from HS, but he was pretty much bullet-proof his last two years in college. He missed one game in two years due to an ejection from a game. I follow D2 pretty closely, especially the RMAC and the lineman in that group. 

I would not waste a second round pick on a guard.  A fifth or sixth rounder would probably do.  If Urschel or Jensen get dinged, we could go out on the market and obtain a guard.  The thing about depth (quality depth) is how hard it is to keep it around.  Urschel and Jensen are starter quality players.  Pick high in the draft for a guard, and sit one or both.......you are going to have agents knocking on doors asking about letting them explore other playing opportunities.  Players with recognizable talent arent' going to remain on the pine for the sake of guaranteeing depth for a club for long.  Jensen is an ERFA this year and then he is a FA.  He isn't going to want to sit and miss out on building a case for a good contract next year.

Urschel and Jensen could start week 1 for just about anyone if called upon........and play well.  Just my take on it!

Your strategy seems sound. Nice post. We may need to be able to do a reset.

23 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I seriously doubt wj3 is there. Trading back and getting joseph with the acquired pick is extremely disappointing. And who are we passing for Spence at 15? I'd take Lawson and dodd over him in a heartbeat, there's also Conklin and rankins could be an elite 3/5tech hybrid for us who should go in the mid teens range and I think I'd take him over Spence as well.

 

In the 2nd I think wj3 is long gone, I don't see any scenario where he makes it past Tennessee in the 2nd and that's the absolute latest. Karl Joseph is an injury concern which is the last thing we need in our secondary and he plays very reckless with his body and could really struggle to hold up physically, I do like his film a lot but I have too many concerns to take him in the mid 2nd. I think mid 2nd is absolutely where we need to strongly consider boyd, also whitehair or decker If available. Overall I just think the value and realism of this is all over the place

Nice rebuttal and I agree.

18 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Actually, there's two others I can see trading with us: the Raiders and the Buccs. Buckner and Bosa would likely be highly coveted by these two since they need to get better against the run and need people that can pressure the QB.

I agree. Plenty of quality at a premium for those in want of a  specific position (Hargreaves/Stanley/Jack). Ozzie should do well in this draft. Especially if moves back a little. A 1 @ their position of trade, a 2 and 3 this year and a conditional pick mid round next year would seal the deal for me. 

Receiving corp for upcoming season:

Perriman

SSsr

Wallace

Aiken

Fuller/Zeke/Fuller/Drake/Shepard/Boyd (pick one)

Maxx

Gilmore

Boyle after suspension 

And whomever makes it out of camp. Campanaro,

8 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Cravens could very well be a first round talent that falls to our 2nd round pick. If we trade back to LA or maybe the jets and take a lawson, dodd, or Spence in the first and then cravens and Alexander in the 2nd, then we would completely revamp our defense 

I told you Cravens would be key. He's the enforcer aka E.Reed 2.0 

I'll Go a step further and say I'd like to take Fuller/Zeke in the first to lift the top off the slot. Cravens in the second which I think solidifies several positions (S-LB- ST). 3rd round go's to defense of which I'm mulling over currently.

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm really concerned that the Stanley work ethic issues are real. I can't bear the thought of another LT sitting out all year with an injury that the medical staff says he can play through. I Also don't want an lt can't handle Carlos dunlap which I think is very realistic

He has bust written all over him. I like solid picks but he's stretch in my book. If they go that route honesty I think they will sour my stomach for the rest of draft picks. Seems like a waste of 1st round pick and He doesn't represent instant coffee, to steal the phrase. If they get him that high he better not be a Zeus or Cody. They should have learned that work ethic is key. We have had a few slackers on the roster.

Not a fan of this mock at all. But I could be wrong.

Welcome to the forum and don't let us ruffle your feathers. It's all about fun and the games !

Thanks USMC and ABR. He may turn to be a gem uncovered. Or you know…….

9 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Interesting, he seems like a good mid round pick if that's the scouting report on him.  Ive seen him mocked from the 2nd to the 4th

Also, did anyone catch Terron Beckham's Pro day, OBJ's cousin.  In no way do I want us to draft him or anything, but good god his numbers were insane

40 yard dash- 4.47

Bench press reps- 36

Vertical- 44.5"

Broad jump- 11feet

Any film and where please ? I'm in the hunt for a dark horse.

Just now, Drew P said:

Come on Jets come get that man

Somebody anybody please ! I'll buy the front office of that team a pack of pens to sign the contract. And gladly serve as a witness. Yep Yep Yep He signed It and they signed it too.