RavenManiac#7

It honestly was not Marty IMO. Flacco is to blame for the lack of audibles when the defense knows exactly which play we are about to run. That starts in practice. That "Joe Cool" slogan also backfires at us. I like that he stays calm in tense situations but I would rather see a QB play with more enthusiasm and determination to win. That means calling audibles and being a vocal leader.

Also, the announcers in almost every game for us have all said the same thing over and over again......."Nobody is getting open". Our receivers having a hard time getting open has also been killing this offense.

I still think that as long as Harbaugh is here this team will continue to be mediocre at best. I said back in 2012 that he took the credit from Ray Lewis. People forget that Harbaugh came the same offseason that we drafted Flacco & Ray Rice. Ray Rice who was the sole reason for us even being in the playoffs. Which I still cannot forgive Ozzie Newsome and Steve Biscotti for. I mean, these guys literally played God by choosing to not give Rice a second chance. But thats another topic. Regardless, all this team needed was a good QB and we got that with Flacco, and also got a beam of light with Ray Rice. Ray Lewis was already the vocal leader, heart & soul, and coach of this team. Harbaugh was just a guy filling in the hole of "Head Coach". Get harbaugh outta here, but do not just bring in any guy. We either need Ray Lewis as HC or an old school, hard nosed, smash mouth football kind of Head Coach. In all serious, if I were Ozzie I would get on the phone and see if Ray is interested in a coaching position.

I strongly agree with nearly everything you posted with the sole exception that I think that Marty deserves more blame than you same content with attributing to him. But, as it pertains to Joe, let me say that I have always been a fan of Joe. In fact, I have only three Ravens jerseys, and his is one of them, along with Ray Lewis and Ed Reed's. But, I played a Lot of highly competitive sports in my lifetime, and I have been described as "the most competitive player I have Ever seen", and "you are the kind of player who would bite a player's eye in order to win a game". Now, of course, that last one was meant tetorically. I would Never bite someone's eye. That was said to make a point. And I was, unquestionably, my team's leader consistently year after year. I was a very vocal one who lead by example. While, I believe, there is something not say about "keeping cool" under Any circumstances one finds himself/herself in every game, I believe that it can, also, be counterproductive if overdone, since it might send the wrong message. Sometimes, some extra fire needs to be encouraged. Now, personal circumstances forced me to give up my dream of playing shortstop in the major leagues, according to the strong opinions of several major league scouts, I, nevertheless, was able to begin playing fast pitch softball at the most competitive level in both Maryland and in National Tournaments. Many, many coaches stated the opinion that I was, br far, the best shortstop in Maryland. I say all this NOT to tout my own horn but, rather, to try to legitimize my opinion as being one that may carry more weight than the average fan's. If whet I read by another poster on this website claiming that Joe was seen laughing boisterously with Big Ben after the Christmas Day game, I'm sorry, but that does not sit well with me. If that truly did happen, then Joe is just NOT competitive enough to suit me as our QB. I know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that I would NEVER have been able to do Anything like that. You see, as competitive as I was, and am, I, absolutely, Hated losing even more than I Loved winning. That being the case, one would NEVER have found me laughing with my victor after my team failed to win our game against their team. Joe, you need more fire in your belly, plain and simple.

  14 hours ago, Minionhunter said:

For everyone that is panning Ozzie, I really think you need to look at turnover in the scouting staff. It has been plundered of all the most valuable talent, so much so that it may have compromised the ability of Ozzie to get it right. I think that this would be an awesome research article for Hensley or Zerbiac to tackle.

I agree Minionhunter.  Also, I think Harbs has increasingly had more influence over the draft in the last five yrs or so, which may point to the ineffectiveness of our latest draft classes.

I posted this in another thread that I think is worth taking a second look:

"I posed the question I did earlier in the thread about how much impact Harbs actually has in the overall draft process.  When I was reading and researching to find out as much as I could about how our draft strategy works and who is the most influential I went back as far as I could so that I could see if there had been any major trends and/or shifts in our draft strategy, especially since Harbs arrived to see if our recent down trend in the last five years or so could be traced to Harbs' influence.  Personally, I thought there had been and from what I read it would seem to indicate that this could be possible.

Here are some of the better sources I read that can give you good insight into our draft process and how it has evolved through the years, and you and others can draw your own conclusions:

2009:  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/sports/football/19ravens.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

2013:  http://grantland.com/features/bill-barnwell-baltimore-consistent-winning/

2013:  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000212663/printable/whos-ireallyi-in-charge-afc-north-hierarchies-run-the-gamut

2016:  http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/02/01/lombardis-way/a-shift-in-the-ravens-war-room/

2016:  http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/10/18/lombardis-way/the-heat-is-on-for-harbaugh/

Here are two good articles that let you know about Harbs' philosophies:

2014:  http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/super-bowl-winning-coach-makes-the-most-of-each-moment

2016:  http://www.ndinsider.com/football/notebook-harry-hiestand-s-influence-pays-draft-dividends/article_f86a17c2-0e81-11e6-b260-a3f63e6e91f8.html

These articles have a lot of similarities and some differences, but they do give a good overall impression as to the draft strategy.  Some folks may be familiar with the sources already, but when read all together they draw a definitive picture. The article from the National Catholic Register which was a Q & A, pretty much sums up Harbs' approach to how he views the draft as evidenced by the quotes below:

"After you got back from Afghanistan, you went to the NFL Combine in Indianapolis. Is the combine really necessary? Do you get to learn things about players that you didn’t already know?

At the combine, the scouts are mostly rounding out their knowledge of players they’ve already studied a lot. However, coaches are a different story, since we are just beginning the evaluation process on this draft class. Coaches can learn a great deal by seeing the players up close at the combine. We start with that information and build on it up until the draft in May.

"You didn’t need to look for any kickers, did you?

No, certainly not. Justin Tucker is a tremendous kicker and young man. He exemplifies what we look for in players. There’s the obvious necessity of physical strength and skills, but above and beyond those, we look for mental characteristics. Those can make or break a draft pick. Work ethic, decision-making skills and interest in team unity are some of the things that go to make up what we call that “football intelligence.” This outweighs physical qualities 3 to 1."

Very interesting and insightful as to what he values most in a player, I'd say!

I have more questions than answers, lol.   If Ozzie has been so successful with the "right player, right price" mantra that emphasizes the "evaluating and valuing players" strategy so well over his tenure as the Ravens GM, as his drafting and free agency record suggests, then why the dip in the draft over the last five yrs. give or take?  The outlier to that question could point to Harbs.  Once Harbs' won a SB  in accordance with his record, did he feel that gave him more leverage to step in and influence the draft?  If Biscotti wanted the scouts and coaches to work together, unlike they didn't do well under Billick, could it be that Harbs gets the ear of Biscotti more than Ozzie? 

Obviously, something isn't working because this team lacks an identity imho...are we a defensive team or an offensive team...and if offense is it run or pass?  Whatever the issues are, how can you stack a draft board when you don't have a clear vision of what you want the team to be? I would tend to agree with you ellicottraven, let the scouts scout and the coaches coach! This would only be a problem if the coach can't coach the team that is drafted, lol."

Super, and Very insightful post, Grapple. I couldn't agree more. I just hope that Mr. Bisciotti can see just how far down his team has fallen. The need for a major overhaul could not be more obvious. His decisions will go a long way in determining our short and long term future. I have lost all confidence in any chance that we will improve if our owner insists on keeping the stars quo. I honestly think he needs to blow things up for our best chance to begin our climb back to respectiblitiy. What do you think, Mr. Bisciotti?

Now that's a damn shame !
We get a couple fast receivers and they give up on the long ball !
We get a couple very promising running backs and they give up on the run !
All the Dinking and dunking to get us to less than the 1st down marker, hasn't worked either ! Flacco is no Tom Brady !
I mean what's Joe in his 8th year and still throwing off his back foot ?

I absolutely agree. Poor coaching decisions, and Joe shows definite signs of actually regressing as opposed to improving. Sad state of affairs and not at all conducive to improvement. The ball's in your court Mr. Bisciotti. The future of our team is directly in your hands and the decisions you make will determine our fate in both the short and long term.

Of course JF and DP dont see any change coming. Sundays game was all about setting franchise marks and getting stats. This team has abandon the running game way to much. Flacco is not an elite Qb to be having 40+ attempts per game he shines at 25 to 30 with the running backs get 20+ carriers to setup play action and bootlegs but enough on him. I have said this for years and will say it again JH is a terrible at challenges,decisions,game planning and half time adjustments. We had players like Q,Ray and Ed helping with adjustments that made Harbaugh look good. Those players are gone and goes to show JH looks lost as a head coach. Kub helped while he was here 2 Hc was better than 1 mentality was the key for that 1 season. IMO we need to replace both coordinators and possible the HC. Pees has always been terrible and for the top 5 defense we had look at our opponents offense over a 16 game season the ones that had a legit offenses schooled our so call top 5 defense. I really hope Steve looks at all these comments from fans and the media and make the right decision to move this once winning franchise back to top level

Absolutely, wholeheartedly agree!

  1 hour ago, DENNYK said:

Just thinking of how stubborn Harbaugh can be and you can bet that he will stand behind keeping Marty and Dean as his coordinators. It will be interesting to see what really goes down next week at the State of The Ravens meeting with Steve B. I would think that he is not going to be receptive to sitting pat on the present coaching staff. We need to jettison some players that cannot step their game up too. We all know who they are. I am losing my faith in Joe Cool too. He just seems so disinterested in the games now. No fire and after all, he has the SB ring, the money and many team records. Time to begin planning on his replacement and drafting for the future QB of this team.

If no changes are made harbaugh will be going down with a sinking ship Bill Belicheck got rid of pees because his defense couldn't hold leads late and marty was fired from the jets for not knowing how to call agame

And nothing seems to have changed with either Pees Or Marty.

but we need new coaches if they don't fire these guys we will be siting in the same position next year fire john dean marty and start from scratch thats the only way we ever win another super bowl please steve fire them for the greater good of this team

Here, Here! AMEN!

  2 hours ago, law215 said:

Marty should not return in any capacity. Joe has not develop since his been his QB coach and the offense stinks.

Yanda's response makes me believe no one, including himself, challenges the coaches on anything.

I hope so too, when's the likely timeframe of when we'll know?

  1 hour ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

Harbaughs been HC for 9 years 1 Division title the first job of head coach win your Division 1 in 9 not very good that's the bottom line

He won 2, 2011 and 2012, also went 12-4 in 2010. Not many coaches have 10 playoff wins, Marvin Lewis has more division titles is he better?

Yes, I think that he is.

I'm far from alone in thinking that not making a change at OC would be a HUGE mistake. Of course, the only one who's opinion matters is Mr. Steve Biscotti. I can only hope, and pray, that for the good of his team he mandates to Harbaugh if, in fact, he even keeps Him on board that he replace both his OC and his DC. Indeed, I think that our owner should make it a requirement of Harbaugh for him to have Any chance as returning as our HC. Actually, I think both the short, and long, term interests of the team would be best served by making a clean sweep of our coaching staff by replacing all three of these men. Poor Joe. Having to endure yet another change in his OC isn't idea, but I believe that the best interests of the team require it. Here's to hoping Mr. Bisciotti comes to the same conclusion.

  3 hours ago, whobilly said:

  3 hours ago, Drinkmore Beer said:

Ravens should trade their number two pick. It's always a guaranteed flop.

The #1 Picks have not provided that much either. 2009 Oher. 2010 Kindle. 2011 J Smith. 2012 Upshaw. 2013 Elam. 2014 Mosley (PLAYER) 2015. Perriman(????) 2016 Stanley(PLAYER)

Kindle was Round 2, Upshaw was not a #1 either.

With Upshaw, Oz did his beloved "trading back", out of the first rd, so, essentially, he was "like" our #1. Not sure on Kindle. Think he was 2nd rd too. Don't think we had a 1st, or traded back again. Good point though. 1st picks should help immediately. Stanley-yeah, Mosley-yeah, J.Smith-yeah but hurt So much, Oher-below avg T, Upshaw-ehh, Kindle-NO, Elam-NO, Permian-still holding out hope. #2 & #3 in 2016- doubt it. Overall, I think we could hope for better. On Ozzie's defense, though, some late round picks there. He just has to stop trading back!

  1 hour ago, GMAC said:

Can we hire the Steelers front office as consultants to help us draft a WR? Looks like they found another one with that Ayers kid.

We have bigger problems than that. We need more secondary players, and offensive line guys first. You can bring in the best WR's in the world, but if you can't block and give Joe the time for them to get open, then you're screwed anyway... Yesterday, nobody could get open. Even the Cincy announcers talked about it.

You're right about our other needs, although you didn't mention pass rushers. But, didn't you kind of prove GMAC's point about us needing better wrs? Ours simply do not gain separation. Conversely to what you said, you can bring in the best offensive linemen in the world, but if you can't gain separation and catch and hold onto the ball, then you're screwed anyway. Even the Cincy announcers talked about it. What I'm trying to point out is it's a joint effort. OL's gotta block, and wrs gotta gain separation. You need both. One won't get the job done. Unless, maybe it's the Cheatriots and Brady, and that we and Joe are not.

Need better players too. Center, pass rushers, secondary, wr, Wagner re-signing?, OL depth. I know it's a lot. It'll take more than one off season. Starts with coaching staff, though, and some attention to the FO and drafting.

Need a new HC, OC, DC.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the state of the Ravens going into 2017 is very promising. There are just too many areas that we need to strengthen or make changes to. It all starts with the coaching staff and, perhaps, the FO. That we need a new OC and DC, I think is undeniable. I hate for Joe to have to go through yet another change at OC, but it's vitally necessary. And our defense isn't Nearly as good as one would think considering it's lofty rating before the last 4 weeks or so. As for our HC, yes, I do think it's time for a change. I believe Harbaugh will find another job quickly, but I don't think he will have success here any longer, or again. I see all the signs that he has lost the team. Now, to the players. Our pass rush needs help big time, as does our secondary. Losing SSS means that, as usual, we need to add GOOD, productive receivers. By that, I mean they must posses the ability to gain separation and catch, and hold onto, the ball. The Ravens, almost unbelievably, Still have never had a true #1 receiver on the roster. That's truly sad. Our OL still needs some attention both with starters and better quality of depth. We need an upgrade at Center and will/can we re-sign Wagner? Of course, there are more needs, but I think those are the most critical. And as for that wr need; I think it's been showed that drafting and developing a #1 wr is, for some reason, beyond Ozzie and our coaching staff's abilities. So, hopefully, we can find a Serious upgrade in FA. Unfortunately, Ozzie has shown that his tendency is to sign older, past their prime, other teams' cast-offs. And I'm not sure what our cap situation is but usually it's not very good so that will probably be a hindrance in our search, and hope, for a truly effective #1 receiver. Don't even know who, if anybody, is going to be available. I think these are just the obvious needs. Seems like much too much to accomplish with only one off season. So, that being the case I, again, don't consider the state of the Ravens going into 2017 to be a very favorable one. But, I am a RavenManiac, so I will be there with them no matter how long it takes. I just hope Steve Bisciotti does, indeed, start with coaching changes and gives some serious thought to the FO as well.

Been watching Harbaugh lose this team for a while now. It seems blatantly obvious now. These players don't want to play for him. They don't respect him and don't buy into his phony excuses and bologna he blabbers during his post game pressers. He's no leader and is afraid to have real leaders anywhere on his team or staff.

All the talk means nothing, nothing. Weak OL, dropped passes, no running game, bad play calling, injuries, there are plenty of excuses. All that really matters is what happens on the field. What i don't like is that Harbaugh fires an OC (good move, though, well needed), calls out specific players about specific plays, talks about having to work and get better, etc., etc., etc.. But, all he does is ignore, or defend, All his bonehead calls, lack of skills in clock management, in game decisions, in game adjustments, his inability to have his team ready to play at the opening whistle, insistence of having Only "yes men" on his roster and staff, along with his other shortcomings. When is he going to take ownership of how much He is contributing to the sorry play we are seeing on the field each week? I suspect, never. Let's face it, it hasn't been only these last two losses. We have not looked good, other than the defense and Tucker, yet this season. I'm a RavenManiac no matter what our record, and always will be, but I am fast beginning to question whether or not Harbaugh is truly an asset or a detriment to our team

I've thought our kick coverage has been over-rated for a while now. Our return game is, and has been poor as well. Our place kicker is Awesome and our punter is good (very small # of muffs), but coverages and returns, NAH!

This is the best guy out there?!? A Dolphin reject?!? If there is an OL playing worse than ours it's the Dolphin's. Tannehill has suffered even more sacks, hurries, and hits than Joe has. My son, who lives barely north of the Florida/Georgia border and is a Huge Dolphin fan (the turncoat, LOL), has moaned and groaned about their OL for at least three years now. And one of their castoffs is the best Oz thinks he can find?!? Gotta say, this move doesn't excite me much. Hope I'm wrong.

I have pointed out Harbaugh's weaknesses for several years now. I truly believe that Ray lewis deserves MUCH more credit for the last Super Bowl win than does Harbs. Simply looking at Harbs' win-loss record since Ray's retirement is telling. Harbs has Never been good at clock management, in game decisions, in game adjustments, challenge flag decisions, having his team ready to play from the opening whistle, motivating his players, getting the most out of his players, holding them accountable for bone-headed plays and penalties, and making smart calls on critical plays. There are probably some other deficiencies. Add to that his tendency to only want "yes men" as coaches and players, and that's quite a laundry list of cons, and I think that they far outnumber his list of pros, which he does, undoubtably, have. But, I honestly believe that his early success as our HC is more attributable to his good fortune of inheriting a team with a great defense and, especially, Ray Lewis, the True leader of Harbaugh's early teams. So, yes, I do think that Harbaugh should, at the very least, be on the hot seat. I guess that, bottom line, as he said about Trestman, I don't feel good about the direction the Ravens are heading in with Harbs as our HC. And to be sure, having to conclude this doesn't really fill me with a great deal of satisfaction. I have Always hated to see a man lose his job, but what's most important is the future of the Baltimore Ravens.

Thanks, Harbs. It's been overdue. This has been a test post since I had forgotten my password. Nice to be back. Think Harbs should be feeling warmer in his posterior area due to a hotter seat than he's been used to. I'm not, however, one of those calling for his head on a platter yet, despite his obvious, long held deficiencies.

On Cam Newton's fashion statement, YUCK!!! If he wanted black and gold and his wardrobe was slim in that color, as he stated, he should have expanded his wardrobe. He certainly could have afforded it. On Upshaw, I think we'll re-sign him in the, unfortunately, likely event that we cannot afford what KO will cost. If we Can find a way to re-sign KO, well then I think we might not be able to get them both. But, I agree that he won't attract Big money and Big interest. Even Tucker, I think is more important than Upshaw, but we'll tag Tuck if we can't sign him long term. My guess for what's most likely is we get Tuck and Upshaw, but I'd rather have KO and Tuck if we can't have all three.

Test posting to this article

Moderator 3, and Moderator 2, and All the rest of the "head honchos" running this website; Have you all been reading just how many complaints from So many people that have made this website so successful have been written? And the reason that you gave us is that"all the other teams are going to this format". So what?!? Why don't you just listen to your posters and scrap this terrible idea. It's even worse when we learn that your reason is to "follow the crowd". Give us back what most of us prefer. Who is this website for, you or the Ravens fans?

Not digging the new format, at all.

Awful lot of people saying that. Wonder if the "powers to be" on this website are listening or even care. Doubt it!

  On January 29, 2016 at 1:09 PM, bioLarzen said:

Haha, I see you had the same problem I had a couple of hours ago

We are feeing everyone's pain, BUT at least they did not do this 2 days before the draft like a few years ago lol.  All the teams are going to this platform, it just takes some time.

Oh, so That's the reason, because "all the other teams are going to this platform". Well, shame on you, Moderator 2, and everybody else that had a part in this change. Since when have the Ravens done things like every other team? Maybe you guys should have taken a page out of the team's playbook. I have Always hated it when people justify what they do by saying "others do it". Other people rob banks and murder people too. Is that justification for us all to do those things too? You guys should have left it alone. It seems like the vast majority of people on here do Not like the new format. But That doesn't matter, huh? Bad move and Bad reason!

I get a little tired of all the excessive celebrations by all players. I know it is supposed to be entertaining but sometimes enough is enough. Just play football!

Been saying this for years. Showboating is immature and is all about oneself, rather than the team. After all, players, all you're doing is what you're being paid to do. If, when I was working my job, doing what I was paid to do, I started dancing, prancing, basically making myself look silly when I finished an assignment, my fellow workers and boss would have thought I was an absolute nut-case. I just wish today's players would show the class that the stars from the past showed. It's like Johnny Unitas once said. "When you get into the end zone act like you've been there before", and "Why act up for just doing what you're being paid to do?" Of course, Johnny Unitas had MUCH more class than almost every player in the league does today. We sure could use more of that today. It would be SO refreshing. Like it or not, players, you Are role models for today's children. It comes with the territory whether you like it or not. It's one of the realities of being an NFL player along with getting the big bucks. It really is sad, and I think it has added to our current society's mindset.

  On January 29, 2016 at 3:17 PM, BmoreB said:

Not digging the new format, at all.

Totally with you, BmoreB - I was quite happy with the old format.

Been reading a Lot of people saying this. Add me to the long list of unhappy Ravens fans on this issue. Why? Just tell us why it was necessary to fix something that wasn't broken. Change for change sake? Just what were your problems, moderators, or whoever it was who found it necessary to mess this up. Real bad move.