steelcityraven

If we don't trade back

1. Corey Davis- WR- Western Mich
2. Tim Williams - OLB- Bamma
3. Ju Ju Smith -WR- Schuster
3. Jalen Myrick-CB- Minn
or Cam Sutton- CB- Tenn
4. Ethan Pocic- C- LSU
5. Zach Banner- C/T USC
6. Ben Gedeon- ILB- Mich

Three 3rd rounder would be nice. Trading back is tempting; A trade back could still look something like this.

1. Jabrill Peppers-S/LB- MICH
2. Tim Williams- OLB- Bamma
3. Jalen Myrick- CB- Minn
3. Will Holden- T- Vandy
3. Ju Ju-Smith-Schuster- WR- USC
4. Ethan Pocic- C- LSU
5. Noah Brown- WR- Ohio State
6. Chase Allen- ILB- Southern Illinois

Or
1. Dalvin Cook- RB- FSU
2. Reuben Foster- ILB- Bamma
3. Cooper Kupp-WR-Eastern Washington
3. Nicco Siragusa- G- SDST
3. Cam Sutton- CB- Tenn
4. Zach Banner - G/T- USC
5. Ejuan Price- OLB- Pitt
6. Noah Brown- WR- Ohio State

TRADE BACK!

  3 hours ago, MadStorkSociety said:

  3 hours ago, law215 said:

  4 hours ago, nj_ravens said:

  4 hours ago, law215 said:

The 2012 Superbowl Champion Ravens was in large part a team that was 13-3 in 2006 before Harbs and Flacco, close to winning the Division in 2008, won the division in 2011 and 2012. This is not that team.
This is a team that missed 3 out of the last 4 playoffs and have not won the division in 5 years.

What they need are playmakers : Based on chance of availability
1. OJ Howard –BPA if he’s there at 16. I doubt it though
2. Mike Williams – Miss match, will win ball similar to Boldin, Evans, Benjamin, can make Flacco better
3. Barnett – loss Dummervil, Suggs is older
4. McKinley – speed rusher
5. Corey Davis – route runner, size, RAC
6. Peppers – If the above guys are gone, he’s BPA IMO, will always be around football
7. Cook – home run RB, running and catching out of backfield

Trading back is gambling when you are already behind. Yes, the Ravens can play Steelers, Patriots, and a lot of teams close, but moral victories do not win games.

This is a deep draft so the teams already ahead of the Ravens will get better too. Stay put and select BPA. No need to wheel and deal with a team that has been 3rd in the division for years.

OK, and what if all 7 of those players are on the board, and lets say for sake of example, Detroit (I picked them simply for easy math) wants to give us a 3rd rounder to move back 5 slots, as the draft chart says is approximately even.... you say we don't do it? That doesn't make ANY sense, because you can still get choice of 2 of those 7 AND another player in the top 100.

First, It's highly unlikely that ALL 7 will still be on the board. But I'll play along.

It's still gamble that not needed. What if we move back 2 spots? And Mike Williams turns out to be a beast. He goes to Titans who then would be another AFC team competing for a playoff spot with Ravens.

Also, What if the Broncos trade with Skins. Now there are 2 AFC teams picking a player higher than you.

IMO, trading back works when you already have a good team and need additional picks for depth and future. A team that missed the playoffs and have not won the divison should play the percentages and take the BPA

Look at mock drafts all over the web. Go to #16 to see who they give the Ravens. Then go look at #26-32. Every time there is someone there I bet you would be happy to take. So we could still get someone very good & pick up another 2nd or 3rd. Think what we could do with two 2nd's & two 3rd's!

We have two many holes to fill & a great opportunity to do so.

We need a great player. And MOST of the time, the ones at the lower part of the draft are not as certain of a pick as the higher rated players.

For example Perriman, on paper looked like a beast. BUT he was available at 26. Why? health concerns, hands, etc.. Elam was a top 5 safety available at #32.

The further you move down the more risk you take. My point is with so many needs, why take on risk?

Ray Lewis was picked 26th over all in 1996 - Antonio Brown for the sqeelers was the 26th pick in 2010. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick -199th overall - Marques Colston was a 7th round pick -There was a guy names Shannon Sharpe who played for us who was a 7th round pick. Adalius Thomas who we took in later rounds. Drew Brees was a 2nd rounder - I can go on for days about late draft picks who were multiple time pro-bowlers...

Beside it I could put a list of your 1st round busts like JGoff, Johnny Manziel, etc.... and that list could go on for days.

What I am saying is that the draft is a crap shoot. You do your homework and hope you made the best choice - you look for talent / and look to eliminate as many risks as possible.

In a draft this deep with talent. There is not much that separates a mid 1st rounder and a mid 2nd rounder. You get as many talented guys as you can.

  4 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

This draft is so deep....that it only makes sense to trade back!

there are over a dozen DBs that we could land in the late first or 2nd round
1. TreDavious White- CB- LSU
2. Jabrill Peppers-DB- Mich
3. Sid Jones- CB- Wash
4. Fabian Moreau-CB-UCLA
5. Marlon Humphrey- CB-Bamma
6. Cordrea Tankersly- CB- Clem
7. Jalen Myrick-CB-Minn
8. Chidobe Awuzie (sp)- CB- Colo
9. Quincy Wilson-CB- Fla
10. Adoree Jackson-CB-USC
11. Teez Tabor-CB- Fla
12. Desmond King-DB- Iowa
13. Cam Sutton-CB-Tenn
14. Budda Baker-DB-Wash

there are at least 8 pass rushers available late round one and into round 2
1 Tim Williams- OLB- Bamma
2. Takkarist McKinley- OLB-UCLA
3. Charles Harris-DE-Mizzou
4. Taco Charlton-DE-Mich
5. Zach Cunningham-OLB-Vandy
6. Tyus Bowser- OLB-Houston
7. Carl Lawson-DE-Auburn
8. TJ Watt-OLB -Wisc

There are at least 5 OL available late round 1 and early round 2.
1. Cam Robinson-T-Bamma
2. Roderick Johnson-T- FSU
3. Garrett Boles-T-Utah
4. Taylor Morton-T-W.Mich
5. Forest Lamp-G- W. Kentucky

At least 3 RBs
1. Dalvin Cook-RB-FSU
2. Christian McCaffery- RB-Stanf
3. Alvin Kamara- RB- Tenn

At least a half a dozen WRs
1. Chris Godwin-WR-PSU
2. Cooper Kupp-WR-EMich
3. Curtis Samuel-WR-Ohio State
4. ArDarius Jones-WR-Bamma
5. JuJu Smith Schuster- WR-USC
6. Zay Jones-WR-ECU

and a handful of ILBS
1. RaeKwon McMillian-ILB-Ohio State
2. Reuben Foster-ILB-Bamma
3. Jared Davis- ILB- Fla.


SO that is 39 players over the last 10 picks of round 1 and the next 32 picks of round 2. In other words over 42 possible picks there are 39 players that could really be a steal for us. IF we could trade back and end up with an extra pick there (or more) it would only make sense.

If we traded back and got somebody else's 2nd and 4th or something like that
that would give us two picks in the 2nd (lost of those guys above will be available to us and to land two of them would be great)

2 picks in the 3rd and 2 picks in the 4th.
This draft is so deep that while I am not typically a fan of trading back... I feel like it does not make sense to not trade back this year!

The logic of your statement may fail for this reason.

Why in such a deep draft would someone give up picks to us?
Wouldn't they use their picks to obtain many players too?

And if they did, who is this great player they are willing part with picks to secure ?

He could be the next AJ Green, Patrick Peterson , T -Sizzle and what would you have?

The next Matt Judon, Correa, Alex Lewis, Dixon?

The difference in a lot of the Ravens games are we had average to good players and other have good to great players.

Why would teams trade up in a specific draft (even a deep draft) bc they have a very specific need. We have needs! There are teams out there who are looking only for a QB or a WR or maybe trying to get into position to get a Leonard Fournette, etc.

There are several players in this years draft that teams my feel they are worth trading up for. Myles Garret, any of the QBs if you are a team that needs a QB, Fournette, or Dalvin Cook, Mike Williams, Corey Davis or John Ross. OJ Howard. Lattimore, Jumal Adams, Solomon Thomas, Malik Hooker, or Reuben Foster. I could see teams with specific needs trading up for any of these guys.

Heck if we didn't have so many needs I wouldn't be surprised if we tried to trade up to get one of them. So - with that much high end talent in this draft... if a team has identified a specific player who they believe can be the next superstar in this league (and there are several that could be) why not try to trade up (or in our case trade back / allowing them to trade up)?

I think there are definitely quality picks in this draft who really can be the next AJ Green, Pat Peterson, TSizzle, etc.

Don't under estimate what Judon / KC and Alex Lewis can be just yet... they when you find starters in the draft... you did your job.. every so often you hit a home run and get a super star but trading back does not mean that we are passing on a super star...

In fact in this years draft... the more picks you have the more starters you will find and the better chance you have of one of them being a super star.

Finally the difference in a lot of games was that we were the most penalized team who couldn't get off the field on 3rd down and couldn't move the chains on third down. Hard to have better then a mediocre team like that. In the day and age of the salary cap.. the key is NOT to have some super high end players. Ask the Bengals and Giants and other teams who can get to the play offs but cant win!

The goal is to have as many quality players at every position. TO have no holes.... That is the team that wins in todays NFL. The Patriots don't have a bunch of superstars like the sqeelers but they win. The year we won our last SB... we didn't have all the high end super stars but we were solid everywhere.

Get as many solid picks in this years draft as possible. That keeps us under the cap and sets us up for 4-5 years.

This draft is so deep....that it only makes sense to trade back!

there are over a dozen DBs that we could land in the late first or 2nd round
1. TreDavious White- CB- LSU
2. Jabrill Peppers-DB- Mich
3. Sid Jones- CB- Wash
4. Fabian Moreau-CB-UCLA
5. Marlon Humphrey- CB-Bamma
6. Cordrea Tankersly- CB- Clem
7. Jalen Myrick-CB-Minn
8. Chidobe Awuzie (sp)- CB- Colo
9. Quincy Wilson-CB- Fla
10. Adoree Jackson-CB-USC
11. Teez Tabor-CB- Fla
12. Desmond King-DB- Iowa
13. Cam Sutton-CB-Tenn
14. Budda Baker-DB-Wash

there are at least 8 pass rushers available late round one and into round 2
1 Tim Williams- OLB- Bamma
2. Takkarist McKinley- OLB-UCLA
3. Charles Harris-DE-Mizzou
4. Taco Charlton-DE-Mich
5. Zach Cunningham-OLB-Vandy
6. Tyus Bowser- OLB-Houston
7. Carl Lawson-DE-Auburn
8. TJ Watt-OLB -Wisc

There are at least 5 OL available late round 1 and early round 2.
1. Cam Robinson-T-Bamma
2. Roderick Johnson-T- FSU
3. Garrett Boles-T-Utah
4. Taylor Morton-T-W.Mich
5. Forest Lamp-G- W. Kentucky

At least 3 RBs
1. Dalvin Cook-RB-FSU
2. Christian McCaffery- RB-Stanf
3. Alvin Kamara- RB- Tenn

At least a half a dozen WRs
1. Chris Godwin-WR-PSU
2. Cooper Kupp-WR-EMich
3. Curtis Samuel-WR-Ohio State
4. ArDarius Jones-WR-Bamma
5. JuJu Smith Schuster- WR-USC
6. Zay Jones-WR-ECU

and a handful of ILBS
1. RaeKwon McMillian-ILB-Ohio State
2. Reuben Foster-ILB-Bamma
3. Jared Davis- ILB- Fla.


SO that is 39 players over the last 10 picks of round 1 and the next 32 picks of round 2. In other words over 42 possible picks there are 39 players that could really be a steal for us. IF we could trade back and end up with an extra pick there (or more) it would only make sense.

If we traded back and got somebody else's 2nd and 4th or something like that
that would give us two picks in the 2nd (lost of those guys above will be available to us and to land two of them would be great)

2 picks in the 3rd and 2 picks in the 4th.
This draft is so deep that while I am not typically a fan of trading back... I feel like it does not make sense to not trade back this year!

my wish draft

Round 1. Mike Williams-WR-Clem
(He is our answer to AJ Green and Antonio Brown)

Round 2. Tim Williams-OLB-Bamma
(He is a Raven)

Round 3. Sid Jones--CB- Wash
(He is worth waiting for)

Round 3. Jalen Myrick-CB- Minn
(Most under rated CB in the draft)

Round 4. Ethan Pocic- C- LSU
(Helps secure a position of need / can come in and start)

Round 5. Noah Brown- WR- Ohio State
(he is raw but rare athletic gifts make him a great gamble in the 5th)

Round 6. Kareem Are - G/T-FSU
(Can play G or T and will move inside where is will fit well in Greg Romans style. Are is a big guy who can move but needs to be coached up) We have the guy for that!

I hope that KC is the guy to watch for but I am having Deja Vu and cant stop comparing this to Arthur Brown. Hope that is not the case and KC lights it up this year

I don't listen to Skip Bayless when he makes no sense / I don't listen to him when he makes sense. Skip simply likes to go against the grain for ratings. Calling Flacco the best first rounder of the decade is once again going against the grain.

While I agree with his reasoning... his motives are simply to stir up emotions and get people responding to his shenanigans. I don't think he is a legitimate sports analyst bc his views are always skewed by what sales.

So... while I would also have Joe at the top of that list... I don't put too much stock in anything that Bayless is endorsing. He is a clown and I would encourage everyone to simply remove the curtain and expose Skip for the charlatan that he is!

So many directions we can go because we have a lot of needs and this draft class is very deep in a couple of the need areas for us.

There are so many directions that we can go... and having said that I really believe that we will trade back! but final mock drafts

Round 1. Ryan Ramczyk- T- Wisc
Round 2. Tim WIlliams-OLB-Bamma
Round 3. Ju Ju Smith Schuster- USC
Round 3. Cam Sutton- CB- Tenn
Round 4. Noah Brown- WR-Ohio St
Round 5. Ben Geodon-ILB- Mich
Round 6. Kareen Are-G-T- FSU

or

Round 1. Hasson Reddick-OLB- Temple
Round 2. Curtis Samuel- WR- Ohio State
Round 3. Jalen Myrick-CB-Minn
Round 3. Will Holden- T- Vandy
Round 4. Zach Banner- T/G- USC
Round 5. Stacy Coley- WR- Miami
Round 6. Ejuan Price-OLB- Pitt

or

Round 1. Corey Davis- WR- Western Mich.
Round 2. Takkarist McKinley- OLB- UCLA
Round 3. Roderick Johnson- -T-FSU
Round 3. Myrick or Sutton- CB - Minn / Tenn
Round 4. Noah Brown- WR- Ohio St
Round 5. Jordan Evans- OLB- Oklahoma
Round 6. Levon Myers- T/G - Northern Illinois

My preference is the first route. I think either Myrick or Sutton will make great CBs in this league but I like Myrick a ton better. I think Noah Brown is a great additional pick up at WR... so much talent but very raw. I really look for 2 picks on the OL.... and finally with some many great CBs in the draft I wouldn't be surprised if we jumped there or jumped for Jabril Peppers. (who is not on any of my draft cards but that kid would be hard to pass up!

Have to love Webb. That kind of team player is almost non existent in this world. He deserves to retire a Raven. 

YEP

with our secondary everyone on our D-Line should look like studs and if we get a good CB in the first 3 rounds scary D top 3 next year

yep- would love to see us pick up an experience ILB to play beside CJ or at least to make KC earn the job - but I agree... really hope that KC pans out... I expect our defense to be special this year. No more excuses for Pees.

  2 hours ago, Azzi22 said:

  2 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

  2 hours ago, Azzi22 said:

Foster... Reddick.. Cook.. Davis.. .Barnett...Mike Williams and Peppers are all on board at 16... who do you choose? ... The one player I desperately think would be the perfect raven is TIM WILLIAMS... what a bad butt MF

Trade back. One of them will still be available 7-8 spots later, and you net one or two more picks.

Solid choice... you think we can pick up a 2nd or a 3rd rounder? to move back 7-8 spots

Moving back 7-8 spots to #16 means a net trade value gain of around 250 points (according to the "standard" TVC which most experts still use). That would easily net us a trhird rounder PLUS a fifth or sith rounder in the pick #24-27 region. A second rounder would be a huge steal - those picks are worth about 40-70 points more than 250 points. Not totally out of question if a team gets desperate enough - but I don't think it's a likely scenario.
If, however, one of the #28-32 teams wanted to trade up... that could net us their first and second rounder - and maybe then some... However, jumping up that much in the first round doesn't happen too often...

Agreed.... I am expecting to gain a 3rd rounder by trading back ( I think the # 24 -#28 spot is realistic) and we can still get the player we are looking for.... plus

If we drop the all the way to # 26-28.... I really do see us getting a 3rd and a 5th... at least a 3rd and a 6th.

True, there's always turnover. However, look at the losses of designated "core" or "key" players and those who were expected to be vital backups that didn't meet expectations. Seven, and potentially, eight DBs being released. This however, is a rebuild to get much younger and faster. They will never admit or call it such. The younger players must simply grow up, play, and perform if we have any opportunity to move beyond mediocre. The same goes for the coaching. They too must perform better, assess better, and give players the opportunity to grow by putting them into position to be successful.

Wagner
Zuttah
Ducasse
Juice
SSS

Doom
Timmy
Guy
Orr

Those are the real loses.

Jefferson
Carr
Woodhead

Those are the real additions.


The problem is that we lost 3 players form the OL and picked up 0 so far

We lost 2 DL, Doom and Zach Orr which has the potential to weaken our front 7 and we haven't added anyone in the front 7 yet.

We lost SSS our most productive WR and haven't added anyone there yet.

We have improved out DBackfield and Woodhead will prove to be a weapon for Joe. With our TE corps healthy it should mark an improvement.

We just need to hit some home runs in this draft...
I would love to see us re-sign Doom and possibly Powers... Signing Mangold or another OL would help in addition to the draft.

Finally I am expecting a trade (Ben Watson) or a trade back in the draft.... allowing us to address more of the needs that we have.

  2 hours ago, Space11jams said:

not even going to waste my time with the Sherman talk. He's not coming to the Ravens and I think he'll stay in Seattle.

It's a pet peeve for me... Why do we have to go all through this EVERY SINGLE TIME a big name player MAY become available for trade? 90% of them wouzld not make any sense, if only for cap reasons...
It's like hearing that Megan Fox is single, do I start contemplating giving it a try? :)

Maybe not real but its fun to dream about it Bio.... and adding Sherman to the roster is fun to think about too!

There are great options at 16, I wouldn't be surprised if a QB run doesn't push a top 10 player to us.... Fingers crossed...

I would love to see that happen but I really like the 2017 QB class is sketchy enough that we may only see two QBs go in the top 12 picks.

I guess it depends on how desperate teams are but 4 Is not out of the question.... which would set us up nice... but I think 2 is more realistic.

I think 4 QBs will go top 25.... which may make a lot of sense to trade back to later in rd 1 or even early rd 2 if we got enough for that

I think from pick 15 to 32
Ramczyk
Mike Williams
John Ross
Marlon Humphrey
Jabrill Peppers
Zach Cunningham
Taco Charlton
Rakweon McMillan
TreDavious White
Kevin King
Takkarist McKinley
Chidobe Awuzie (sp)
and Cam Robinson

Will all still be a possibility. Even if we trade back from 16 to 26.... I think we add a draft pick and a very high level player who can walk in and start.... and yes I think that almost everyone on that list could walk in and start for us with the only exception being Taco (just bc of the depth that we have there)

  39 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  48 minutes ago, steelcityraven said:

I think Jernigan will be a solid player for the Eagles and he should have continued success.... I feel like we have the players ready and able to replace him here and I understand the trade.... I just stick by what I said... all along..

I just wish we would have gotten more for him. I disagree with Ozzie's assessment that we got appropriate value. This is a guy who is a starter at minimum. This is a guy who has potential to be a pro-bowler.... a former 2nd round pick. - who we didn't receive a third round pick for but instead moved up in the 3rd round for.

I think Timmy has a greater value then what we got for him. Ozzie has to say that though. We should have moved up in the third and received a 5th for him or moved up in the 2nd and received a 6th.

Completely dependent on another team paying that price.

If I were another team, I'd just wait a year, give you nothing, and sign him myself. He's getting a big contract regardless, and so that's factored in to the price tag.

If this deal were a year or two ago, we probably could have gotten a 2nd rounder for him. But factored into the cost of the trade is the cost the other team has to pay for the new contract... OR... the risk of not being able to sign him to an extension.

Maybe Jernigan's agent told teams that his client wouldn't sign an extension regardless. If so, that certainly drops his trade value a ton, because he's a one year rental to most teams at that point.

Exactly what I said. No one is going to give you two high draft picks for a guy everyone knows is leaving the following year. The eagle trade makes sense because they still have a third pick but get timmy. Ravens just jump 25 spots which is golden because they can get a starter caliber player.

yes but understand that we lost a starter and a future 3rd or 4th round draft pick (which would probably also be a starter) to move up 25 spots and get a starter? and you can say yes but we will have a better starter and there is no guarantee there and that is in essence assuming that we will can do more for this franchise by moving up in the third round then we can with a later 3rd round pick and another 3rd or 4th rounder in the future.

  48 minutes ago, steelcityraven said:

I think Jernigan will be a solid player for the Eagles and he should have continued success.... I feel like we have the players ready and able to replace him here and I understand the trade.... I just stick by what I said... all along..

I just wish we would have gotten more for him. I disagree with Ozzie's assessment that we got appropriate value. This is a guy who is a starter at minimum. This is a guy who has potential to be a pro-bowler.... a former 2nd round pick. - who we didn't receive a third round pick for but instead moved up in the 3rd round for.

I think Timmy has a greater value then what we got for him. Ozzie has to say that though. We should have moved up in the third and received a 5th for him or moved up in the 2nd and received a 6th.

Completely dependent on another team paying that price.

If I were another team, I'd just wait a year, give you nothing, and sign him myself. He's getting a big contract regardless, and so that's factored in to the price tag.

If this deal were a year or two ago, we probably could have gotten a 2nd rounder for him. But factored into the cost of the trade is the cost the other team has to pay for the new contract... OR... the risk of not being able to sign him to an extension.

Maybe Jernigan's agent told teams that his client wouldn't sign an extension regardless. If so, that certainly drops his trade value a ton, because he's a one year rental to most teams at that point.

Agreed that this is dependent upon what another team is willing to give up and you are right.... they could just wait a year and get Him...but for teams that are looking to bolster their DL now.... teams that want to win this year and think they have a chance this year.... they don't want to wait and compete with everyone else in FA where the price tag only goes up.

So... it benefits that Eagles to trade now... and sign that extension (like they did). They recognize the benefit in having this quality player this year.

We did not however and while I also agree that we would not get several high picks for him we got zero picks for him. (We just moved up in round 3).

Like I stated before.... I believe that we could have gotten the trade up and a 5th or 6th rounder.

It is what it is at this point.... I just felt like Timmy was worth more then we got for him.

Hope we make the most of that jump up?

I think Jernigan will be a solid player for the Eagles and he should have continued success.... I feel like we have the players ready and able to replace him here and I understand the trade.... I just stick by what I said... all along..

I just wish we would have gotten more for him. I disagree with Ozzie's assessment that we got appropriate value. This is a guy who is a starter at minimum. This is a guy who has potential to be a pro-bowler.... a former 2nd round pick. - who we didn't receive a third round pick for but instead moved up in the 3rd round for.

I think Timmy has a greater value then what we got for him. Ozzie has to say that though. We should have moved up in the third and received a 5th for him or moved up in the 2nd and received a 6th.

  21 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

Westbrook is the most under rated WR in the draft this year and one of the most under rated players overall....Look at his production and his play making ability / not his 40 time and combine numbers. He could come here and start as our slot WR right now. TBH the thought of Westbrook working the slot with Perriman and Wallace taking the top off is a little exciting. Just curious why you are so sure that the Ravens will not draft him? (I personally think Westbrook reminds me a lot of SSS when he came out of Utah)!

Pocic can play both C and G and most analysts have him rated as one of the top C in the draft and some even call him the top. Not sure they are thinking he is too tall . He seems to be exactly the type of guy that Greg Roman likes.... just curious why you don't like him?

Coley can be a starting returner right now.... when you pick a WR in the 5th round of the draft... you are not expecting them to come in and start and he wouldn't (probably as a WR) but he has potential to develop into that. He is a very raw but explosive athlete and has good speed. He can be our starter in the return game now (something we have been missing for some time... so a dangerous starter in the return game with potential to become a productive slot WR in the NFL in the 5th round .... I wouldn't call that a reach but I am curious why you would.

Myers is compared by CBS Sports to Rick Wagner and Kiper compared him to Villeneuva (sp) of the Steelers.... Both starters and Wagner just became one of the highest paid RT in the NFL. The knock on Myers is that he is slow. The Ravens would probably be looking at moving him inside and ALewis outside. Which would negate the biggest knock against him. He is described as a powerful grinder, who has a mean streak in the run game. Prisco, Kiper, CBS sports and more project him as a possible starter in the NFL...

I wouldn't call that a reach in the 6th round? Just curious why you do? Remember that this is the 6th round... most 6th rounders don't even make the team.

What is it about these guys that make them a reach that late in the draft?

Westbrook isn't underrated he is ignored - he's not on our board because of his multiple DV issues in much the same way that devonte fields and Joe Mixon are definitely not on our board either

pocic has and will have problems with leverage at the next level due to his height - and while some of the media have him as the top center in the draft, they also have a late 2nd/3rd round grade on him - he's a guy who could have a very steep learning curve - I wouldn't hate the pick completely but I think there'll be better value at other positions when he's on the board

i have 7th round/Udfa grades on both coley and Myers with much better developmental options available in the 5th for sure and maybe the 6th as well - someone like switzer or kd canon or darboh or Etta-tawo or Scott or Reynolds could be around in the 5th and Myers to me looks like a guy who will be at best a swing tackle but likely falls out of the league - ironically I disagree that he's slow... for me the best thing about him is his quickness albeit he has unspectacular footwork, relies too often on finesse rather than punching with his good reach and never seems to complete a power block in the run game - he has uneven temperament and a proven inability to maintain consistency - he's ok in the run game but was pretty poor in pass protection except against the bull rush - he had one really good game that i watched against San Diego state so I guess he has some upside to him but he looks to me like a guy more likely to go undrafted and bounce out of the league than someone who makes themselves a career - he looks a much better prospect in a zone scheme which we seem to be moving away from as well (just as the cherry on top) - and the reason he is a reach is because in a deep class like this there are still impact players available in the 6th round or even the 7th

While I agree with you on some of your analysis on Pocic - I think what makes him so intriguing is his athleticism and versatility. Pocic player both Ts, both G positions and C at LSU and played it well.

I felt the biggest downfall in Pocics game was less to do with his height and more to do to the fact that he needs to build his body up. Pocic is not strong enough yet but he has good athleticism and very good flexibility for a big guy. He is smooth in his bends and transition blocks well.

He lacks the ideal power at this point and gets pushed back too much... but that is a strength issue that many Centers find problematic coming out of college and it takes a few years to build that body up....

I personally really like his versatility and athleticism and think Pocic can flourish under a coach like Greg Roman.

I think Elflien out of Ohio State has some attributes that make him a more attractive prospect right now but I don't think he has the versatility that Pocic offers and most reports suggest that Pocic has a big advantage in the intelligence area?

  21 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

  On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 1:14 PM, rossihunter2 said:

  On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 0:30 PM, steelcityraven said:

or
Round 1. Takkarist McKinley-OLB-UCLA
Round 2. TreDavious White- CB-LSU
Round 3. Sid Jones-CB- Wash
Round 3. Ethan Pocic-C-LSU
Round 4. De De Westbrook- WR-Okla
Round 5. Stacy Coley- WR- Miami
Round 6. Levon Myers- G/T- Northern Illinois

We won't draft Dede Westbrook anywhere in the draft, Stacy Conley is a reach as is levon Myers - I also don't personally like pocic that much - he just seems too tall to be an effective center in the NFL 

Westbrook is the most under rated WR in the draft this year and one of the most under rated players overall....Look at his production and his play making ability / not his 40 time and combine numbers. He could come here and start as our slot WR right now. TBH the thought of Westbrook working the slot with Perriman and Wallace taking the top off is a little exciting. Just curious why you are so sure that the Ravens will not draft him? (I personally think Westbrook reminds me a lot of SSS when he came out of Utah)!

Pocic can play both C and G and most analysts have him rated as one of the top C in the draft and some even call him the top. Not sure they are thinking he is too tall . He seems to be exactly the type of guy that Greg Roman likes.... just curious why you don't like him?

Coley can be a starting returner right now.... when you pick a WR in the 5th round of the draft... you are not expecting them to come in and start and he wouldn't (probably as a WR) but he has potential to develop into that. He is a very raw but explosive athlete and has good speed. He can be our starter in the return game now (something we have been missing for some time... so a dangerous starter in the return game with potential to become a productive slot WR in the NFL in the 5th round .... I wouldn't call that a reach but I am curious why you would.

Myers is compared by CBS Sports to Rick Wagner and Kiper compared him to Villeneuva (sp) of the Steelers.... Both starters and Wagner just became one of the highest paid RT in the NFL. The knock on Myers is that he is slow. The Ravens would probably be looking at moving him inside and ALewis outside. Which would negate the biggest knock against him. He is described as a powerful grinder, who has a mean streak in the run game. Prisco, Kiper, CBS sports and more project him as a possible starter in the NFL...

I wouldn't call that a reach in the 6th round? Just curious why you do? Remember that this is the 6th round... most 6th rounders don't even make the team.

What is it about these guys that make them a reach that late in the draft?

Westbrook has Domestic Violence issues. In case you missed it, Stevie B said that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD THE RAVENS DRAFT THAT KIND OF PLAYER, PERIOD!

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that Westbrooks circumstances were very different then Mixons. Westbrooks charges were dropped on the first incident of throwing his BM to the ground.

The 2nd incident of him biting her was also dropped and she admitted to lying about that.

I may be wrong but pretty sure that all of the charges against Westbrook for DV were dropped and later re-canted.

Whereas Mixon is more of a Ray Rice situation.

  21 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

Westbrook is the most under rated WR in the draft this year and one of the most under rated players overall....Look at his production and his play making ability / not his 40 time and combine numbers. He could come here and start as our slot WR right now. TBH the thought of Westbrook working the slot with Perriman and Wallace taking the top off is a little exciting. Just curious why you are so sure that the Ravens will not draft him? (I personally think Westbrook reminds me a lot of SSS when he came out of Utah)!

Pocic can play both C and G and most analysts have him rated as one of the top C in the draft and some even call him the top. Not sure they are thinking he is too tall . He seems to be exactly the type of guy that Greg Roman likes.... just curious why you don't like him?

Coley can be a starting returner right now.... when you pick a WR in the 5th round of the draft... you are not expecting them to come in and start and he wouldn't (probably as a WR) but he has potential to develop into that. He is a very raw but explosive athlete and has good speed. He can be our starter in the return game now (something we have been missing for some time... so a dangerous starter in the return game with potential to become a productive slot WR in the NFL in the 5th round .... I wouldn't call that a reach but I am curious why you would.

Myers is compared by CBS Sports to Rick Wagner and Kiper compared him to Villeneuva (sp) of the Steelers.... Both starters and Wagner just became one of the highest paid RT in the NFL. The knock on Myers is that he is slow. The Ravens would probably be looking at moving him inside and ALewis outside. Which would negate the biggest knock against him. He is described as a powerful grinder, who has a mean streak in the run game. Prisco, Kiper, CBS sports and more project him as a possible starter in the NFL...

I wouldn't call that a reach in the 6th round? Just curious why you do? Remember that this is the 6th round... most 6th rounders don't even make the team.

What is it about these guys that make them a reach that late in the draft?

Westbrook isn't underrated he is ignored - he's not on our board because of his multiple DV issues in much the same way that devonte fields and Joe Mixon are definitely not on our board either

pocic has and will have problems with leverage at the next level due to his height - and while some of the media have him as the top center in the draft, they also have a late 2nd/3rd round grade on him - he's a guy who could have a very steep learning curve - I wouldn't hate the pick completely but I think there'll be better value at other positions when he's on the board

i have 7th round/Udfa grades on both coley and Myers with much better developmental options available in the 5th for sure and maybe the 6th as well - someone like switzer or kd canon or darboh or Etta-tawo or Scott or Reynolds could be around in the 5th and Myers to me looks like a guy who will be at best a swing tackle but likely falls out of the league - ironically I disagree that he's slow... for me the best thing about him is his quickness albeit he has unspectacular footwork, relies too often on finesse rather than punching with his good reach and never seems to complete a power block in the run game - he has uneven temperament and a proven inability to maintain consistency - he's ok in the run game but was pretty poor in pass protection except against the bull rush - he had one really good game that i watched against San Diego state so I guess he has some upside to him but he looks to me like a guy more likely to go undrafted and bounce out of the league than someone who makes themselves a career - he looks a much better prospect in a zone scheme which we seem to be moving away from as well (just as the cherry on top) - and the reason he is a reach is because in a deep class like this there are still impact players available in the 6th round or even the 7th

Hmmm.... okay thanks for sharing your thoughts.... I have watched Myers play in several games this season and he is a force. I felt that he was on the slow side and a move inside would be realistic at the next level but in my opinion... I think he has the talent to play at the next level. I did see some nastiness and he seems to be a good fit in the Greg Roman system. Myers do wall people off more then drive them off but I felt that has everything to do with the NIU system. Watch him in goal line and short yardage situations. This is where I was most impressed with him.

I read Prisco's report on him and Kipers and felt they were seeing some of the same things that I did.... So I was curious what you were seeing. I will agree to disagree with you on Myers but thanks for your response.

This is CBSsports profile on Levon Myers

Player Overview

Myers possesses the frame, power and nastiness that NFL teams are looking for. He is not particularly light on his feet, however, which could mean that another move - this time inside - is in his future.

STRENGTHS: Myers is a hulking presence with broad shoulders, long arms and a thick middle, including wide hips and a big bubble which helps him physically maul opponents. He shows at least adequate initial quickness at the snap, easing out of his stance with short, power steps and with his knees bent and butt down, leaving him balanced and ready to anchor against bull rushers. He is patient in pass protection, forcing opponents to complete a wide arc around him and is typically able to control opponents once he latches on, showing impressive upper body strength and good hand placement. He keeps defenders on their toes by occasionally mixing in a cut block, showing surprising quickness and body control to sweep the legs out from opponents legally and effectively. Myers shows some nastiness in his play, looking to knock defenders to the ground when he senses them off-balance, including those consumed with battling the left guard. With just two starting seasons under his belt, Myers potentially has untapped potential still to develop.

WEAKNESSES: Frankly, Myers is powerful but slow. He does not possess the footwork required to remain at left tackle in the NFL. He shows only average initial quickness in pass protection. He lumbers off the ball when asked to block on the move, struggling to get to and re-direct at the second level.

IN OUR VIEW: Myers possesses the powerful frame and mindset to warrant a mid to late round consideration but his future in the NFL may lie inside at guard rather than tackle, a position he did not play at NIU.

COMPARES TO: Rick Wagner, Baltimore Ravens: Though Myers opted to join the Huskies rather than the Badgers, scouts could be reminded of Wagner, a former UW tackle. Myers is projected to slide to guard, where his size and strength are complemented (and his average agility is mitigated).

His body has some Man strength now. I think those three guys with Big B will be a force! Still not sold on our 5 tech's yet. I think this is where we go 1st round. 5 tech or OLB. Right tackle would be a strong third choice.

IDK.... I am excited about Kafusi... especially with the time that he has been able to put into the weight room. Urban has shown flashes and think that he can continue to grow.

I like Davis and think we will see his growth in a very productive year for the youngster.