baroquenspirit

Here we see Porter confronting the Bengals, oh wait.

There's alot of stuff that should/shouldn't have been penalized/fined during that mess of a game (for both sides of the field). There should've been ejections, control of/from coaches on both sides, but it's all debatable depending on which side of the "field" a person is on (if they're not that open-minded, that is).

^^To the Porter discussion above:

I've read on other sites that the NFL is going to fine Porter for his actions, and admitted that he should've been flagged too. I cannot confirm/deny that though, so take it for what it's worth.

However, if Porter does get fined, then he obviously DID do something as well in the eyes of the league. But, what's done is done. I'm not concerned over it. Jones should've held that emotion in check.

-- The hit on Bernard by Shazier actually won the game for the Steelers in my opinion (and I'm not debating if it should've been a flag or not. It could've been one, which negated a fumble: or, it could've been a Pitt TD, , I have no interest in debating it).

All season long, Cincy had been using Gio Bernard late in "game-winning" situations when ball security is imperative. Because Gio was knocked out,, they had to put Hill in that situation. Jeremy Hill has had serious fumbling issues for the past 2 seasons. He was actually "benched" a couple times this year because of it, and was not too happy about it.

When the Bengals had the ball with 1:30 or so left on the clock,, and I saw Hill in the game, I knew he would cough it up. I told my buddy Hill would give it back. Sure enough, it happened.

So, regardless of any feeling toward Shazier's hit,, it actually was extremely critical to the outcome of the game. Kudos to him for that.

I agree that the loss of Gio was big for you guys...especially with the way it went down at the end with the fumble. The only thing I would say is there were a ton of game changing plays in that game. One of the craziest I have ever seen. 

That's not what I meant and I'm sure you know that. As with any rule, judgement and discretion enter into enforcement. Porter's intent coming on the field was not to attend to an injured player or to debate anything with an official. He came on the field to talk trash and confront opposing players, anyone watching could see that and he should have been flagged.

Anyone watching? Really? Exactly what do you see on that tape which 1) Clearly reveals Porter's intent, 2) Clearly says he should have been flagged? As I said, Ive watched it about 15 times. Porter is in the huddle around Brown, he tries to leave the field, several Bengals physically engage him. He never raises his arms.  So you are inferring a lot about intent and flags from, well, from what?       Here is a slo - mo of the mix up. It begins after Porter has been separated from the steeler huddle by Bengal players...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysECduSPfk      

As I think you know I wanted the squealers to win for my own reasons, but have to say it was obvious to anyone why porter came on the field. He should have been flagged as well, no doubt.

I can accept that if you also think the Bengal coaches should have been flagged for coming on the field to surround Gio. Or the Ravens coaches in the AFC Championship game a few years back when McGahee went down. Every team does it. Im guessing it will get enforced more strictly in the future. Someone better tell Harbaugh, who spends half the game 15 yards out on the field yelling for a flag!

Just a guess on my part, but I would bet the bengals assistants act or talk nothing like porter. lol I guarantee he purposely came on the field to add fuel to the fire. joey is pure punk.

Here's the thing. It's the NFL..men like Porter, Suggs and Burfict play in it. Nearly every team has a guy or two like this. They are "punks," "thugs," and "dirty players" when they are on our opponents team and "tough" when they are on our team. There are also few who go beyond being a tough, hard-hitting player who pushes the rules...guys like Suh and Burfict and Harrison (Although he has steered clear of fines and trouble recently.) I know Ravens fans would say Hines Ward. Some Steeler fans would say Suggs (your natural inclination to defend and reject as Ravens fans did in another post only proves my earlier point. The rest of the league votes him dirty). So be it.  I have no illusions about Joey Porter. He has always been a stir the pot guy. However, he was certainly smarter than Burfict, Jones and one other Bengal player (96 or 98, not sure) in that game. He never raised his hands. He never took an aggressive posture. They pushed, pulled, shoved and ultimately swung at him. As a Steeler fan, I have watched that sequence of events about 15 times. Porter IS in the huddle around Brown. When Brown and the Steeler crew begin to leave the field...Bengal players confront Porter. Was he running his mouth? Odds are he was. SO WHAT. Walk away...but no, several Bengals physically bumped, pushed and pulled him. They positioned their bodies between Porter and his path back to the bench. They can point fingers and blame him all they want. No decent parent would accept "but he called me a name" for the costly level of response the Bengal players had. Neither did the Ref. The Bengals bought and paid for that loss. Besides, the Steelers still had to execute a lot of plays to get in the position to have a chance. 

Peter King "blames" the participants. http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/01/11/nfl-open-letter-players

In this particular case...nothing the Steelers did rose to the trash of the Bengals. Even if you flag Shazier...his hit was not intentional attempt to injure and he does not have a history unnecessary roughness like Burfict. Joey Porter? Guess what, Bengals assistant coaches were all over the field when Bernard got hurt. But guess what, no Steeler players stopped them from leaving the field, pulled on them, pushed them and got involved. Bengals brought this on themselves, They got exactly what they deserved. 

Well, Burfict was on notice from the league for his hit in the Ravens game. Does the league want the three star players out for one of the teams in the divisional round of the playoffs? Cause thats what they got. Ben, Bell and Brown...all hurt, not by a football player...by an out of control, angry thug, hell bent on injuring people. He tried to injure Cam and Greg Olsen. Imagine if he succeed at that? Where would the Panthers be? Congrats NFL. Well done. Burfict should be suspended for a season. 

I think he has a good point. And I know I will probably get a lot of push back...but I believe it would have benefitted the Steelers. The Steelers players were not the one's losing control of their minds and emotions. I think Burfict, Jones and a couple other Bengals might have been tossed. They didn't seem to be able to stop themselves from being stupid no matter what the cost. 

Will you two stop hijacking this thread with your back and fourth childish posts? Game is over, Steelers fan will always side with the Steelers no matter what. Ravens fan will side with the Ravens, it's a pointless argument that is going nowhere.

I'm happy to drop it, but i wasn't really defending the Steelers. 

Hard to posit "incidental contact" when you lead with your helmet, don't you think?

You would have to ask the officials from the game. 

I can ignore a lot, but never someone comparing either of those guys that cheap shot, chicken poop ward. There's a reason that scum bag was voted league's dirtiest player year after year.

A non-answer. About what I expected.

Ditto

Do you feel that Harrison and Ward are/were dirty players?

Do feel Suggs and Steve Smith are dirty players? 

Baloney- it's a judgement call, and you'll see it called just as often as not. Are you going to "challenge" me to find an example, or will you admit that there are plenty of instances where a play very much like that one has resulted in a flag?

Well, yes, there is judgment involved in the call. Just like in nearly every call. 

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8 (Unnecessary roughness) in the NFL rulebook

Note: The provisions of section (f) do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or noncrown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on an opponent.

What was that about the rule book, again?

ya, turns out i was vindicated...shazier hit a runner who lowered his own head too, not a defenseless receiver. 

Well, I'm way to old to get assigned homework, by anyone, but I will say this- the perception is there, and not just among many Ravens fans. Why? I know the answer you're going to give...

I wasn't assigning anything. It was a challenge. Just thought, if you are actually interested in facts not perception, emotion and sports hate, the information is available for a ten second google search. If not, hey, stand there on the grassy knoll and hold up signs that say, "9-11 was an inside job"...whatever works for you. But I still say the whine, "They (refs, league, kardashians, whoever) help your team and hurt mine" is the silliest whine in all of sports fandom. 

I can't speak for others but I have a few reasons, the greatest being an ex girlfriend of mine is from Seattle and is obviously a major fan and it didn't end well lol. I also hate their thing with the "12th" as if they invented it. Those are just a fee reasons.

The "ex-girlfriend" was enough...no need to go further. LOL

Why so much Seahawk's hatred from Ravens fans? Is it a bird thing? 

The argument that annoys me even more is that the NFL is actively out to stymie the Ravens (or Patriots or Steelers or Bengals or 49ers or Seahawks - I've seen the same argument made by all fanbases). I wish you the best of luck arguing against that though. I gave up long ago.

Good advice. I should take it, but I probably won't....lol. 

I liked the hit. 

You can't take that play out of the game. Theres head to head, crown to crown all the time.

Made me really appreciate Shazier. You got a good one that's for sure.

Good luck vs the Broncos

My boys and I have said numerous times this season, on penalties for and against us, we hate how much the defense is limited. I agree with protecting athletes, but there are areas its over kill. 

There's an update talking about what I've been referring to- spearing. They basically say it could have been (should have been) illegal.

I also don't understand how Bernard can be considered a runner at that point since he never established forward momentum. Nonetheless, that's another rule I've seen come into scrutiny because many fumbles/incomplete passes have been overturned because the player didn't make a move upfield or a football movement. Simply taking two steps isn't enough anymore from what I've seen in 95% of cases this year.

Bernard's second step was to turn upfield, but he hadn't even established momentum upfield and got drilled by the crown of Shazier's helmet. That, to me, is spearing on a defenseless receiver, but the NFL has way too many judgement calls now.

It is a mess. They need a better baseline. 

Do you really think you're going to convince Ravens fans that the Steelers haven't, on balance, gotten the calls over the years? Good luck with that...

Depends on whether they  1) Ever look at the actual stats, 2) After the heat of a tough game are able to step back and see it without emotion, 3) Aren't sucked into the completely and totally ridiculous idea that the NFL and Refs intentionally or unintentionally favor a particular team. There is just zero logical reason for it. I challenge you to pull up a list of penalties agains all NFL teams over the last decade. You will find that the facts show the Steelers are penalized at pretty much the same rate as every other NFL team. Some years up, some years down, but zero evidence of a pattern of favoritism. Honestly, this is the silliest claim fans of any fan base make...bar none. 

Yeah, but unfortunately they are wrong.  In regards to a hit on a defenseless receiver, it is not a penalty.  But in regards to tackling a player with the crown of your helmet, it is a penalty.

Well, this explanation has been made by several sources, including the retired ref on NFL Network. The Criteria for receiver and runner is different, criteria for actions of offensive player is included. I'm not going to put my house on the line over this...but a lot of folks without a dog in the fight, who know the rules are making this case. 

Didn't think it was a foul, though have seen it called.

 

you never know anymore.

Which is the worst part of all of this. 

I'm confused - are you back to saying it shouldn't have been a flag?

 

That article, once again, is looking at the wrong rule.  It doesn't matter if he was defenseless or not, the rule that I posted last night applies to everyone not inside the tackle box.  If you tackle anyone by initiating contact with the crown of your helmet it is a penalty.

Im not saying it, CBS Sports is saying it...and explaining in very simple, understandable terms why.