frozen joe flacco fan

4 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

Pretty sure he's talking about the Oriole Adam Jones since that's what he says.

Yep!

12 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Dude, you clearly didnt look at the Next Gen stats... it clearly points to him being THE MOST shutdown corner in the league.

Receivers in his coverage had the 2nd lowest catch percentage, and THE lowest yards per catch.

So, what does that mean??

It means that when hes covering a receiver they catch it less often than when against any other CB in the NFL (except 1), and even when they do catch it it's for less yards than when being covered by any other CB in the NFL.

So..... Jimmy is about the best at making sure WR's dont catch the ball, but when they do he only lets them catch short passes. Aka.... he shuts down receivers as well as or better than any other CB in the league.

The injury concern is valid; but trying to say he's not shut down is just wrong.

Dude, I don't need to look at the Next Gen stats to see that there were several CBs better than Jimmy in the league this year. Stats are for losers and mean nothing. How many passes did he defend? He didn't shut down anybody in the games he missed due to the high ankle sprain and a concussion. Someone else said he had back problems. Don't we all? The only person who was shut down in those games was Jimmy. Buckle up your chin strap, son, and stay on the field! Do your job! Oh, that's right! That's the Patriots. Well, how 'bout play like a Raven? How 'bout playing thru an injury like Marshall Yanda did? That's what an All--Pro does. Quit making excuses! BTW, I have the same concern about others on the team who can't seem to stay on the field. It's becoming an epidemic with this team. Maybe that's just bad luck as someone said or maybe we're not drafting physically and mentally tough players like we used to. I saw the play that caused him to miss the critical stretch run. He was injured making a tackle. Its supposed to be the other way around, dude. You kick the guy's butt in front of you or he'll kick yours. Its not a mystery. I just hope Jimmy didn't read the Next Gen Stats 'cause he might start believing he has nothing more to prove. I don't know what games you were watching but Jimmy and the rest of our defenders play way too far off the ball. By doing so, they can compensate for their lack of speed and coverage skills. They rarely were quick enough to jump routes. Jimmy and his mates gave up far too many short passes this year. Yes, we are a better defense with him on the field but the whole team needs to play better. Stay on the field, Jimmy, and show the world what it means to "Play like a Raven." As Adam Jones likes to say, "Show up, Put up and Shut up!" Just DO YOUR JOB!

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 1:51 PM, Adreme said:

On the field Ray was a liability the year they won the Super Bowl.

If the Ravens were dumb enough to fire him he would have his pick of coaching vacancies to choose from because the league knows what a lot of people here miss and that is that John is a top 5 head coach who is a master at getting the most out of his players every week.

I find your post amusing. While Ray was not playing at full strength the year we won the Super Bowl and was certainly past his peak, he was an inspiration to his teammates on and off the field. That's an intangible. His leadership and inspiration was highly motivational for the team and they rode the crest of an emotional wave to and thru the SB.

As for John getting the most out of his players every week, he did just the opposite this year. Most of our fan base assumed we would be in the playoffs in 2016 and predicted a winning season. The team under-achieved this year and he failed miserably to get the most out of his players in the last four weeks of the season when our record was 1-3. With our destiny in our own hands and a record of 8-6 at the time, he failed to get the most out of his players in the last two weeks of the season. The truth is this. John Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin are good cheerleaders but neither is a Top Five coach. I disagree that he would have his pick of NFL head coaching positions if he left the Ravens. Jim Harbaugh wasn't in big demand when he left the Niners. He might have his pick of cheerleading squads though.

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 8:42 AM, Purple_City39 said:

It's really a shame that Jimmy is considered injury prone.  A broken foot, two ankle sprains, a concussion, and a sports hernia are more bad luck than "injury prone" to me since those aren't all that preventable.  Maybe he could heavily tape his ankles more, idk.

Hopefully he can play and start another 16 games this year like he did in 2013 and 2015.

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 11:44 AM, Tank 92 said:

Think he had back issues keep him out last year as well.  

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 4:18 PM, BmoreBird22 said:

That was this year.

The thing about excuses is that everybody has one. If Jimmy can't stay healthy, he can't help the team win. Whether he's injury prone or its bad luck isn't the issue. The issue is his lack of durability. In the Not For Long League, a player has to show up, put up and shut up. He hasn't shown that he can do that yet, year in and year out. Getting props from NFL.com's Next Gen Stats isn't helping him stay on the field. Deion Sanders was a shutdown corner who was not a big hitter. Sometimes Jimmy is a big hitter but he's not close to being a shutdown corner like Sanders was even when he's healthy. That's a fact. I'd rather see him be a shutdown corner than a big hitter. That being said, I hope he can be healthy next year and be an impact player in 2017 but I'm starting to have my doubts.

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Ya know, when this was first brought up during mid season, i thought it was just just insane.  But im willing to admit ive come around a bit on this next season being a real test and if its just a bad implosion of a season, it might just be time for a change.  Andy Reid and Marvin Lewis have been good coaches in their career, but being there for so long....its time to mix things up

Congratulations on your epiphany! With all the dead money we have, it will be hard to get this team turned around next year. There are just too many holes to fill and not enough good coaching to make it happen. A career change would be good for John and the Ravens.

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 6:29 PM, Purple_City39 said:

Hmm.

1.  Do you really think the 2016 draft was bad?  Dixon, Lewis, Pierce from the undrafted pool?  The only good player was Stanley huh?

2.  Why is ILB added to the list?  We lost a formerly undrafted player at the position.  In the last decade, do you remember how many undrafted ILBs have started and played well for Baltimore?  Not saying it's some guarantee but that's clearly a position the Ravens fill fairly easily.  With how much they reportedly liked Onuwasur, they may already have that filled.

3.  In one post you say the only way to compare is to compare to playoff teams, then ignore that we beat the Steelers convincingly enough and were an arm stretch away from sweeping them.  They were a playoff team, right?

4.  So you think you need the a change coaches to change outcomes?  Let's go back to those Steelers you referenced.  Tell me who their coaches were in 2012 and 2013 when they went 8-8 both years, and then go check out the fact it was the exact same coaches in 2014 when they won the division.  Maybe you don't like the Steelers.  How about the superbowl team, the Atlanta Falcons?  Same HC, OC, and DC this year that they had last year when they were 8-8.  I bet they regret not firing their coaches.....

You're entitled to your opinion even if its wrong.

1. The 2016 draft was OK but it was not great like many of the Ravens homers and brass want us to believe. It did not resolve two of our most glaring deficiencies at the cornerback and the pass rushing positions. It provided us with a starting O-lineman and possibly two but our O-line was grossly mismatched this year compared to that of Pittsburgh, Dallas, Atlanta, NE and the other playoff teams. Heading into the offseason, we need a legitimate center, a right tackle and a left guard. That's all! Did you see a center named Mike Pouncey pull and block for Le'Veon Bell on a run around the corner in the playoff game against the Chiefs?

2. I added an ILB to the list to replace a pretty good undrafted player neamed Zach Orr. Didn't he lead our team in tackles and intercept four passes? I hope you're right about Onuwasur. Time will tell.

3. Yes, Pittsburgh was a playoff team but they weren't that much better than us. I assume you would agree. One of the main differences in their team and ours is that they started three rookies on defense. Saying we were within an arm stretch away from beating a team that is not much better than us is not saying much. The NFL is now saturated with a lot of mediocre teams. Most of the playoff games were decided by lop-sided scores. Currently, there are a small number of teams who are head and shoulders better than all the rest and then there are the also-rans like us.

4. I don't believe I referenced the Steelers' coaches when I said we need a change in the culture of this team. I referred to Bill Belichick and Dan Quinn. Its evident that the Falcons made some good off-season moves that resulted in a vastly improved team. We didn't!

As long as you want to make believe we're heading in the right direction, I guess that's your prerogative. To me, denial is not just a river in Egypt. This team has to some wholesale changes to make before it can expect to get back into the playoffs. There are just too many holes to fill (no pun intended). 

56 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

Well, at this stage in the we're simply working on assumptions, right?  As of now, I have to assume the front office was honest when they said they wanted more good CBs.  We can directly relate at least 1 loss (likely more) to having 1 above average CB who got hurt with no adequate replacement.  If they keep their word, we are better than an 8-8 team.

We all believe we win at least 1 more game if we simply run the ball more and have balanced play calling.  Well, the front office also talked about that plus the o-line.  They brought in Gregg Roman to show they were serious about that.

We also saw a lot of bad plays due to lack of chemistry between QB and WR.  The QB has already committed to working on that in the offseason for the first time in who knows how long.

There's really no reason to believe the 2017 team will perform the same or worse than the 2016 if just these things see a slight improvement.  Considering Baltimore isn't a team that gets blown out often, little improvement can lead to a big change.  For example, a better backup QB, or #2, and we beat the Giants (9-7).  A win there, and we still have a shot at a WC spot in week 17 and we don't see the completely unmotivated team that we saw that week.  That's 1 small change that potentially added 2 wins.

The powers that be in Baltimore have earned some faith imo.  People complained about the drafts, then look at the 2016 draft.  People talked about the problem of avoiding character risks in the draft, they've changed their stance on that outside of domestic violence.  I see coaches, execs, and players that sound like they refuse to not have another season without a winning record and playoffs.  I've seen an owner call players out by name for the first time ever.  An owner strongly suggest that people at the top and players haven't been doing as great as they should.  I'm seeing a completely different approach, verbally so far as they can't do anything else yet, than what the team has done in forever.  

Since 2000, this team has never had 2 non-winning seasons in a row.  I have no reason to believe everyone involved won't make sure that streak doesn't continue.  I can't speak for everyone else, but this is what "gives me the right" to believe that this team won't be anything other than improved in 2017

Think what you want but that won't make your dreams come true. This team has real problems to face and they start at the top of the organization. I you think we had an excellent draft in 2016, think again. Other than Ronnie Stanley, who else distinguished himself? Now, you can add an ILB to the laundry list of needs we have heading into the offseason. One has only to compare our team's on the field performance with the playoff teams to see that we are not a playoff caliber team. Its true that we came within a play of beating the Steelers. All that proves is that we are not that much worse than them. It does not mean that we can contend against teams like New England or Atlanta. Our team has a lot of work to do to regain its past glory and it won't happen by wishing it will be so. The organizational culture must change and how will that happen without a new coaching staff? Offense sells tickets, defense wins games and coaches win championships. If you don't believe it, just ask Bill Belichick or Dan Quinn.

39 minutes ago, AsianRice said:

Castillo may be bad at running the ground scheme, but he is great at developing young linemen.

 

Something fishy going on in the Ravens staff room.....

Yeah, its called finding a scapegoat. If I were Greg Roman, I'd rent a house rather than buy one. He's taking a demotion to come here and do basically the same thing Castillo was doing. Now, Frazier has shuffled off to Buffalo. So much for continuity!

6 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

The reason why I gave my opinion was because I was OK with it. I'm a Flacco fan as well and expect him to be great but that doesn't give me the right to question his work ethic when I've never been around him to know how he works. I'm in a competitive business with a lot of former athletes both college and professional, I know some of these men and women work their butts off 12-16 hours a day sometimes even more and they still aren't flawless in what they do. Just because Flacco still has areas to improve after nearly 10 years in the NFL doesn't mean he doesn't work hard. 

Again you don't have to take my opinion, it's my opinion not fact. I simply asked you to give evidence of your opinion which you did. But how is my assumption that if guys like Mason and Steve Smith who are as outspoken as any, would have called Flacco's work ethic in question by now faulty but you can use Ray Lewis, who didn't even stick to his word as an example? That's the definition of faulty. 

Not a single player or coach in 9 years other than Ray Lewis has questioned Flacco's work ethic, but reports are that he hasn't gotten with WRs in the offseason, it's safe to assume he doesn't put in work away from the castle?

3 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

OK that's one game in a entire season by that same rationale, people can point to Joe's back to back picks in the Jets game. It works both ways. The fact of the matter is you are jumping to the defense of Flacco when it's not required. This is a Joe Flacco thread, if you want to talk about the shortcomings of the WRs and the role they played in the poor offensive performance, find that thread and post there. But if you can't handle people giving their honest opinions of areas they'd like to see Flacco improve or you're so emotionally invested in defending Flacco that even he said there are things he needs to improve this off-season and you come to defense as if I cursed or condemned him then it's probably gonna be a long off-season for you. 

Also I didn't fail to realize anything. I've said on numerous occasions that the weapons around him need to improve, but that doesn't change the fact that he needs to work on his footwork and accuracy, especially in this offense. When it's time to talk about the weapons around him we can finish this convo but for now this is a Joe Flacco topic and if all you have is that the WRs need to get better, then yes that truly is all.....at least for me. 

Wow! I don't know what you do but for someone who claims to be in a competitive business, you don't handle criticism very well. Just read your above posts. You like to throw darts at others but don't like it when folks reciprocate. Well, I hope your business is prospering and your record was better than 8-8 this year. I see you have been a member for almost 10 years and have posted 8,890 posts. I don't know how someone who is in a competitive business finds the time to read all of these blog posts and respond twice a day unless you're a journalist. Congrats on that! TCB!!! 

Since this is a Joe Flacco: Tough Talk thread and we're on page 94 of 94, I'll rest my defense of Joe by stating categorically that I think Joe is regressing in his mechanics and skills. On that point, I'm sure you agree. The more important question to pose here in this thread is why he is regressing. That's more complicated and its where you and I cannot agree. To me, its patently obvious why he is regressing and not progressing. There are a variety of reasons, some of which are within his control and some of which are not. I would submit that 90% of the reasons are beyond his control so he can only deal with the 10% as I'm sure he will. Unfortunately, the NFL places a high value on $$$$$$$. A former boss of mine was fond of saying "A hungry dog hunts best." I believe that Joe is not as hungry as he was and that is part of his problem but not all of it. If it were the only problem, it should also affect the play of other highly paid QBs.

2 minutes ago, JonnyBaltimore said:

http://www.nfl.com/player/tyrodtaylor/2495240/careerstats

http://www.nfl.com/player/joeflacco/382/careerstats

AVG for last 2 years:

QBR rating Taylor 95.0

QBR rating Flacco 83.0

TDs / Ints

Taylor 37TD/12Ints

Flacco 34TD/27Ints

Taylor also had 1100 yards rushing for another 10 TDs and 1 Pro Bowl selection.

 

Hey I will take Taylor in the regular season and Flacco in the playoffs.

Great idea, Sport! Why didn't I think of that?

14 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Again I'm a big Joe supporter. 

But citing the Pittsburgh game of Joe playing great and ignoring 12-13 games where the offense couldn't move the ball proves what exactly?

Citing some useless near record for consecutive completions proves what again?

Yes. We need better weapons, an improved OL and run game. But Joe did not play up to par this year. He wasn't the whole problem but he was part of it. 

I get tired of the Joe bashing too... but trust me you're not helping the cause by being overly insensitive and acting like he played great this year. 

Youre going after some of the actual Joe supporters as if anyone says Joe needs to play better it's blasphemy. Harbs knows it. Ozzie knows it. Heck Joe himself knows it. 

And I'm confident with the offseason, being further removed from injury and improving the OL that Joe will be back next season. But my gosh - he did not play up to his standard in at least half the games this year. 

Well, there you go! That settles it!! Harbs knows it, huh? He didn't even seem to know Elvis Doomerville had a partially torn Achilles tendon.

I'm with you on the fix though. Fix the O-line, get the running game going again and add what Ozzie calls a complementary WR (whatever that means) and Joe will be back next season. Hopefully, Oz means a WR who complements Joe's skill set. I disagree that Joe didn't play up to his standard in at least half the games this year but I'm sure you are referring to the fact that he had 8 Ws and 8 Ls so its hard to argue about that.

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 6:54 PM, redrum52 said:

This is one of the few times I think I've seen you give your actual opinion on something.

 

I think we under achieved.  Bad coaching, bad play and execution at some of the worst times.  I think this team had the tealent to make playoffs, but what do I know.

And this is one of the few times I agree with you on something. We were definitely under achievers. There's no doubt about it!

6 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

After suffering through stupidity of these 90+ pages for a while, I just remembered the good old times and "Tyrod is better" thread.

Sigh....

I feel your pain!

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 5:44 PM, Ravenseconbeast said:

Saw it.  Only the best owner in the biz.  His message is clear.   I urge fans of the Ravens organization to check it out.   Going 3 out of 4 season with no playoffs is not an option and he made it VERY clear that he expects Flacco to play like a top tier QB next year.  

I hope Flacco prepares himself to the best of his ability offseason to get us back to get the Lombardi again.   Play like a top-tier elite QB.  We paid him, and we expect success.  No more complacent Brock Osweiler failure in Ravens town.  Lets see what Flacco can do and make the decision to address it asap.

I saw it too. Sorry! There's no way Joe can meet your expectations or the "best owner in the biz's" w/o some major changes to this team. Our O-line stunk again this year, our receivers were mediocre except for Smith and Pitta and our running game was, well, slightly less than good. Our RBs need to learn how to block blitzing LBs & Ss. Other than that and overhauling the defense everything is hunky dory. Keep your dream alive though 'cause that's all it is. I think you know better than to compare Joe to Brock Osweiler but it makes for good theater, doesn't it? Sounds like Joe got a promotion to me. Didn't Bisciotti invite him to the next pow wow in Jupiter? This is getting to be better than a daytime soap opera, "As the Ravens Turn." Harbaugh needs to coach better, Oz needs to draft better and Joe needs to play better. Thanks, Steve, O Master of the Obvious!  

55 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Again what are you talking about. I never gave an assessment of any WRs and if I did I said Sr clearly lost a step, Wallace doesn't run good enough routes to be anything more than a #3 deep threat, Pitta is nothing more than a checkdown option who needs to be replaced and Perriman needs to have the strongest offseason of his career because he has a lot to improve. That's the entire point, you jumped out there to support Flacco when it wasn't needed.  This is a Joe Flacco thread and I pointed out areas where I feel he can improve. You brought up the WR and now you're bashing the FO for what reason exactly?

I promise you I'm not trying to be a jerk here or enter into some type of measuring contest, I just literally don't know what you're talking about. All I said was Joe has some work to do this offseason, which btw Flacco himself said and you've taken that and done something completely different to it. 

Oh btw, I'm not that important to have any proteges 

I'm just trying to point out a fundamental truth, which is Joe is not the main problem. He needs to work on mechanics and going through progressions. That is true. However, what you and others fail to understand is that he is not the main problem. He can use this offseason to improve his accuracy all he wants but his receivers are not playmakers like some of the names dropped on this thread. I'm still waiting to hear what a complementary wide receiver is. That's one of Oz's priorities, isn't it? Who will the receiver complement? Despite the lack of talented playmakers on this team, Joe managed to complete 21 passes in a row in a game this year. Yeah, some of them were dink & dunk passes. He would have had the NFL record were it not for a dropped pass in the endzone by Wallace. Of course, its not the only time he's threaded the needle in the endzone only to have one of our erstwhile receivers drop a perfectly thrown ball. He's not throwing to Dez, Antonio, Megatron, Odell, Julio, Jordy or Gronk. He's been throwing to Kamar Aiken, Chris Moore, Marlon Brown, Darren Waller, Lee Evans and others who were past their prime. Remember, we decided Anquan Boldin wasn't worth the money and he's still ballin. I don't think Anquan left due to Joe's errant passes.

John Unitas was a pretty good QB in his day. I hope you would agree. He also had some pretty good weapons named Lenny Moore, John Mackey, Raymond Berry and Jimmy Orr, just to name a few. Yet, his career completion percentage is not as high as Joe's. I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I'm merely trying to point out to you that Joe is an excellent QB who would be even better if this organization would draft the right players. Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis were Oz's 1st & 2nd draft picks in 1996. He can't rest on his laurels forever or can he? Also, many Ravens fans who don't like Joe blame all the team's woes on him. I guess they didn't watch the 2nd Pittsburgh game. It was a very exciting game and Joe had it won. The defense gave up 21 points in the 4th quarter. I feel Joe deserves a better fate than to be blamed for the obvious coaching deficiencies on this team. He's just a scapegoat and provides our head coach and front office with a smoke screen. That's all folks!    

40 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

In this one short passage alone you have run yourself round in circles: if they were more interested in entertainment than winning then the cowboys wouldn't be maybe the best team in football this year and the viewing figures would be better - the fact that you and a number of other fans were bored this year is proof that the NFL, while a product, is still a sport and not an entertainment show

That's a 15 yard penalty for piling on! What I said is what Jerry Jones said, period. Professional football is becoming more entertainment and less sport with many games decided by P-poor officiating. The National Collegiate Championship Game was much more exciting than any Pro Game I watched all year. Unfortunately, I missed the Rose Bowl. The Cowgirls are as good as they are 'cause Jerry's kids outplayed our kids and his talent evaluators are better than ours. Put Zeke in the backfield with Joe Flacco and its a whole new ball game. I like running around in circles. It keeps me in shape and its entertaining. Do your homework and you'll find that the NFL brand is parity, except for the Patriots. Bill Belichick is so good that he and Harbaugh could switch jobs and Belichick would beat the Patriots with our team. You can take that to the M&T Bank! 

17 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Gave his receivers none of the blame for what exact? I never placed blame on Flacco to begin with so why would I need to place blame on the WRs as well. I'm truly lost. WRs not getting separation or dropping balls added to the reasons why Flacco doesn't always complete a high percentage but that doesn't change the fact that he needs to work on his accuracy and being more consistent with it. 

I don't understand why some of you guys have to be all the way left or all the way right when it comes to Flacco. Either he does everything wrong or he can do no wrong. When both the owner and the player himself says he needs to play better, I don't think you have much of a dog in the fight. Flacco needs to be better, does the talent around him need to improve? Yes but it starts and stops with Flacco and he has work to do this offseason,

You and some of your younger protégés need to wake up and smell the roses. There's a terrific musical out there that you might enjoy. Its called La La Land. I listened to the End of the Year rapper or presser or whatever that was and one thing is evident. The Owner is "bewildered", the Coach looks scared,the GM is clueless and, oh yes, there was Dick Cass who was probably wondering why he was there. So, you have a problem with my assessment of our WRs? Well, we're even 'cause I have a problem with yours. Except for Steve Smith, who was an absolute baller and Dennis Pitta, the Wide guys couldn't catch a cold. Now, I'm reading some posts which imply that Breshad Perriman will return next year as the #1 WR. If that's true, we're in a whole lot more trouble than anyone could have imagined. Isn't Mike Wallace returning? Also, did you listen to the GM's laundry list of needs? He wants a complementary WR. If I had been in attendance I would have pressed him on that one. Complementary to whom? That press conference was worst than the Cincy game. They may be sleepless in Seattle but it appears we're clueless in Baltimore.

You can't have it both ways. You said yourself that Joe's work ethic is next to none. He worked out at the Castle on days when others didn't even venture out in the snow. He'll do whatever it takes this offseason to improve upon his game. I'm more concerned about the work ethic of some of his receivers now that Steve's gone. Maybe we could draft the Clemson WR who is 6'-3" tall with a 40 inch vertical! He might be a complementary wide receiver. He made a nice catch on a back shoulder throw, which is something Joe is really good at. 

8 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Did you even listen? He didnt lay it all at the feet of Flacco.

The cited very specific examples of the sorts of things that went wrong (yes, some included Flacco), why they went wrong, and why it doesnt make sense to just fire people because they went wrong. Just because a decision led to failure doesnt mean it was a bad decision. All the info available at the time made it the right decision, but mistakes happen, players dont live up to standards, people get injured, players regress, etc...

You defend Joe to the death, but want to lay the blame on Bisciotti, Ozzie or Harbs? 

As they said, correctly, Ozzie, Harbs, Joe and others are all part of the problem. But, as an intelligent owner he knows theyre all part of the solution as well. And, just so you know im a big Joe fan, but fyi his bad mechanics, poor decision making, and inconsistencies were part of the problem.

And to talk about morale and say it comes from the top... guess what, a lot of players look at their franchise QB for "morale." I dont always buy this argument, but at times it is true... and at times being "Joe Cool' is a great thing; other times its not. I know youll attempt to refute this, without success, but all out blaming the owner, coach or whoever while all out defending Joe is just as bad as those who throw it entirely on Joe.

And while 8-8 is average and the overall record after the SB is sub .500 if you take out the 5-11 season we're actually above average over the other 3 years. And you also cant just look at 8-8 and say ok, not good neough fire everyone. You have to look at and analyze why 8-8 happened, or why 5-11 happened to make decisions. Is it fixable with the current guys? Are they just incompetent? Are they doing their jobs? 

We were 8-8 with a shot at being where we wanted to be - the playoffs. We've made the AFCCG after a 9-7 record and sneaking into the playoffs. So, should he have blown the team up had that 9-7 team lost one more close game and gone 8-8 even though we have the crystal ball of knowing that at 9-7 they made the AFCCG? What if the crystal ball told us that had we won the Jets and Steelers games and made the playoffs, we win in the WC Round and lose a tight one to the Pats, or heck even beat them? Would you blow it up then?

I'm just a casual fan of the sport. It seems like you have it all figured out so there's no need to refute what you say. I said my piece in my last post on this topic. I would have fired John after the Cincy game and brought in someone with some knowledge of the Xs & Os of football. We have better cheerleaders on the sideline than John. What we need is a better coach! To answer your first question, yeah, I listened to Mr. Bisciotti and it became all to evident to me where he is. He has gotten to the point where he looks at the game like Jerry Jones does. Jerry regards his coaches and players as performers on a stage. He even said so earlier this year. As long as they entertain the fans, winning is not as important to him as making money. Unfortunately, Steve is following the same path. Well, the NFL product is becoming more boring with each passing year and if you felt entertained this year by our entry, then that's great for you. I didn't think it was that entertaining. BTW, this thread is about Harbaugh's seat. There's another thread for you to lambast Joe Flacco so how 'bout staying on point? Anyway, I have reached the final conclusion John's seat isn't hot;  in fact its not even warm yet as evidenced by the Final Presser. When Steve said Harbaugh could do a better job of coaching, that was an understatement but it spoke volumes. Thank you, Oh Master of the Obvious! 

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

1.) that's almost as average as it can get

2.) he never said that it was true that he valued continuity over success only that he realised that that was some fans' perception of him - what he actually said was that his philosophy is that continuity (up to a point) works best to create success

Re #1, average is 8-8. Its not a winning season. It raises an interesting question though. I wonder what Bisciotti's expectations were for the season. He did say he was "bewildered" whatever that means.

Re #2, I place a high value on continuity to a point. For instance, I feel our success has been tempered by having a revolving door at the OC level is bad. The same thing can be said about the Head Coach position. Pittsburgh has had three coaches in a lot more years of history than ours. However, there comes a point in time when you have to assess whether you've reached the point of diminishing returns. For me, we're there. After a 3-0 start, we wound up at 8-8 so we went 5-8 the rest of the way. It sounds eerily similar to our 5-11 record last year.

I can remember a similar situation when Marty Schottenheimer was the Redskins head coach. His team started out 0-5 and wound up at 8-8. At season's end, he was fired after one season as head coach. I disagreed with that decision because I felt the team had turned the corner and it would be foolish to fire him. In our case, the Ravens wound up with the same record as Schottenheimer's team but our performance got worse after a strong start. As an owner, he needs to ask why our performance got worse. If the #1 reason was the injuries, Mr. Bisciotti should have said so. To lay it all at the feet (no pun intended) of Joe Flacco is disingenuous IMHO. I think this team has some big problems in the front office and in the coaching staff, not to mention a lack of identity on either side of the line. If the culture doesn't change, neither will the play on the field. Motivation comes from within. Morale starts at the top and the morale of the team right now is not good and even a casual fan can see it. The Cincy game was an absolute embarrassment no matter how you spin it. Sometimes owners have to make difficult decisions. This owner is just putting off the inevitable. Consider the return on your investment, Mr. Bisciotti, and cut your losses (again, no pun intended).  

7 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Yes he did, but how many of those passes went in the direction of the RBs and 2-3 yards passes to the TEs. Also let me make this clear, this isn't a knock to Flacco, it's just an honest opinion of where i think he needs to improve. How many times did you see a WR have to go to the ground and catch a pass when it should have been a RAC opportunity? There was a slant to Wallace in the Pats game that should have been a TD, instead it was a batted ball by Butler and not only did they not score a TD, the FG was blocked. If Flacco makes an accurate pass the score is 7-2 Ravens and all the pressure is on the Pats. It's little things like this that don't really show up with casual fans but it's those little things that will make the difference between hosting AFC Championship games and scrapping to get into the playoffs. 

So, I assume you don't consider yourself a casual fan. Did you see a lot of dropped passes this year? Did you see a lot of our receivers lay out for catches? Did you see a lot of separation between our receivers and their defenders who played a lot of bump and run coverage? BTW, what you said was a knock on Joe. You gave his receivers none of the blame for the dropped passes. I'm talking about Aiken, Perriman and Wallace. To his credit, SSSr went on ESPN and said "there were times we let Joe down this year." And he's retired so he can be honest and say whatever he wants. What are they going to do; fire him? Joe doesn't have Julio, Antonio B, Antonio G, Odell, Gronk, Jordy et cetera et cetera. The closest he had to that elite group was a 37 year old great football player who just retired. What's he do for an encore next year? Are we hoping one of our current receivers will magically turn into Megatron? It ain't gonna happen.

26 minutes ago, JonnyBaltimore said:

Hey, we are still waiting for Joe to show up. Where is that guy? I'm surprised somebody hasn't filed a missing persons report.

6'6 looks like a franchise QB, but nowhere to be seen from Sept - Nov.

Seeing Flacco perform like a franchise quarterback is like a UFO sighting.

Maybe he only performs well when it is ''frozen'' outside.

You're a quick study, Lord Jonny Baltimore! As you have figured out, I'm one of Joe's biggest advocates. Having said that, I was disappointed in his play in the first half of the season when we had to make hay while the sun was shined. Unfortunately, we didn't put "the hay in the barn" often enough in the early going to stockpile enough "W"s so that we could weather the storm that hit us in the last four game stretch. As someone who has played sports and has had several serious sports injuries, I was not surprised that it has taken Joe all season to overcome the psychological side of his injury. On that point, I would agree with Owner Bisciotti. He expects more from Joe but I believe he also understood what Joe had to overcome. Where I disagree with Owner Bisciotti is on his overall bewilderment. I'm not the least bit bewildered about what transpired this year. I sincerely believe that this team was a group of underachievers which included but wasn't limited to my 6'6" franchise QB. Like someone else said previously, I cannot imagine Antonio Brown would have scored if he was hit at the goal line by Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, instead of Eric Weddle and C.J. Moseley with Zach Orr nonchalantly closing in (even as good as the latter three players are). Joe needs to be a big part of the solution moving forward but he is the least of our problems. AND you need a screen moniker. Joe showed up big time in the Pittsburgh game and had us ahead by 10 points with a little over 10 minutes to play. Remember? Unfortunately, he can't play offense and defense. As you probably know, Chuck Bednarik was the last NFLer to play both ways in 1960.   

9 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

That aggressive mindset was by design. 

http://www.espn.com/blog/atlanta-falcons/post/_/id/22186/falcons-matt-ryan-dug-deeper-to-prepare-for-2016-season

In terms of Flacco not being comparable to Ryan in the accuracy category, accuracy is something that can be improve on. It goes back to the offseason work. The Ravens offseason has never really required  Flacco to be accurate which is probably why there has never really been much emphasis on Joe's mechanics. He could get away from throwing off his back foot because of a rocket arm. However now, he has to lock in on his mechanics more because this offense is about timing and precision. I will agree that it's unlikely to see such a jump for Flacco and this offense but I could see a big jump if Flacco improves in the areas needed. 

Where Ryan went into the offseason focused on improving the down field aspect of his game. Flacco has to focus on tightening up his mechanics that will lead to improved accuracy. He already has the arm talent to get the ball anywhere on the field, but those young gunslinger days are over. This offense needs him to be able to hit guys in stride both intermediate and deep or else the WCO won't work.  

Didn't Joe come within one completion of breaking the consecutive pass streak in a game this year when he completed 21 or 22 straight passes? If I remember correctly, the pass that would have set a new record was a TD pass dropped by Mike Wallace. If that's not accuracy, what is?

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

As far as kickers go, I don't think it matters much for Tucker because he's a pretty special player regardless and you aren't the most accurate kicker in NFL history by chance.

However, if you looked at any average kicker, they're going to be worse indoors than outdoors in terms of their distance, I'd venture to say.

I think it helps quarterbacks to play indoors when the weather is bad, but I don't think it makes nearly as big of a difference as some want to make it out to be.

Well, we're not here to debate kickers anyway so I'll just say I disagree. On the QB comparison, I do think it makes a huge difference in the statistics although I must admit I haven't analyzed the stats recently to see if there's a pattern. It would be difficult to draw any conclusions for a QB who has played his entire career indoors versus outdoors. I would just point out that Johnny U never completed more than 60% of his passes in a season and I suspect he would have done better playing indoors. Someone on this Matty Ice: Soft Talk blog earlier pointed out that he's all set up to play all of his playoff games indoors. I haven't heard anyone refute that he wouldn't benefit from playing two playoff games indoors.

My moniker has nothing to do with what I said about Boldin's career stats and his skill set. If you think that being a part of a Super Bowl team is a down year, then we have nothing further to discuss.

11 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Again, not having the wind to help push the ball is a huge disadvantage because you're going entirely off of your own kick accuracy and kick power. 

And Heinz Field is a notorious field for kicking. It's largely considered the most difficult stadium in the NFL to kick in, so that's not really a good example, either.

So, let me get this straight. Do you think Justin Tucker would have a higher or lower FG percentage if he kicked indoors like some of the other FG kickers who play in a dome, e.g, Adam Vinateri (sp)? Similarly, do you think a QB who plays in a dome like Matt Ryan or Matt Stafford has a disadvantage compared to someone like Tyrod Taylor or Joe Flacco who plays outdoors and, at times, in inclement weather? In other words, do you think the indoor QBs would have better completion percentages if they played all of their games outside. If so, then we'll just have to disagree because it is a physical impossibility. And, yes Heinz Field is but one example and perhaps it wasn't the best but it did point out the stark contrast. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and venture to say that it also benefits the WRs & TEs like Julio Jones & Tony Gonzalez who were on the receiving end of some passes thrown in ideal conditions of temperature and humidity. Now, of course I'm not taking into account the inflation or deflation of the football. I suppose there are physicists on our blog who would suggest that that doesn't affect the ball flight either.