frozen joe flacco fan

Sorry, but I'll wait 'til the movie comes out. Suffice it to say, a rookie named Jalen Ramsey and 8 other CBs were rated better than Jimmy, according to your highly touted Next Gen Stats.com. As a footnote, the website explained that the rating was based only on the top corner from each team. So, it discounted the possibility that some other more reliable, "stay on the field" type CBs may have been left off the list. I wonder if the rating awards any points for durability? I'm not among the Jimmy critics who want him traded. I jest want him to stay on the field. Someone on the blog posted that Jimmy has missed 22 games in 6 seasons. Here's a stat for U: That's ~25% of the games during that span. That's why he hasn't gotten the big payday; that's why he doesn't go the Pro Bowl and that's why he will not ever be in the HOF like Deion Sanders is. Jimmy's a good CB when he's healthy and he is by far our best CB but that's not saying much. He always plays right CB. There are other corners who are more versatile and can play different roles as needed. That's what separates Jimmy from some of the best CBs in the league. The Patriots and the Seahawks teams are famous for the versatility of their defenders. Again, suffice it to say, Jimmy has a good reputation but anybody who has played in organized sports knows you can't play on your reputation. He should get an incentive contract next year and his 1st incentive should be --- to play in 16 games. SSS came back after his ankle injury and played thru the pain of that after coming back from an Achilles tear. Humm! Elvis Dumerville had an Achilles tear and played thru it. BTW, R U Jimmy's agent? If so, tell him the truth, which is he is not a Top 5 CB yet! That being said, I hope 2017 is his year! I hope he proves all the Jimmy critics and doubters wrong. Quite frankly, I think a big part of Jimmy's problem is analogous to a problem Joe Flacco has but I'll leave that for another post later. Editor's Note: Yeah, Adam Jones is a baseball player for the Baltimore Orioles. I would never quote anything from Adam 'Pacman' Jones.

Yep!

Dude, I don't need to look at the Next Gen stats to see that there were several CBs better than Jimmy in the league this year. Stats are for losers and mean nothing. How many passes did he defend? He didn't shut down anybody in the games he missed due to the high ankle sprain and a concussion. Someone else said he had back problems. Don't we all? The only person who was shut down in those games was Jimmy. Buckle up your chin strap, son, and stay on the field! Do your job! Oh, that's right! That's the Patriots. Well, how 'bout play like a Raven? How 'bout playing thru an injury like Marshall Yanda did? That's what an All--Pro does. Quit making excuses! BTW, I have the same concern about others on the team who can't seem to stay on the field. It's becoming an epidemic with this team. Maybe that's just bad luck as someone said or maybe we're not drafting physically and mentally tough players like we used to. I saw the play that caused him to miss the critical stretch run. He was injured making a tackle. Its supposed to be the other way around, dude. You kick the guy's butt in front of you or he'll kick yours. Its not a mystery. I just hope Jimmy didn't read the Next Gen Stats 'cause he might start believing he has nothing more to prove. I don't know what games you were watching but Jimmy and the rest of our defenders play way too far off the ball. By doing so, they can compensate for their lack of speed and coverage skills. They rarely were quick enough to jump routes. Jimmy and his mates gave up far too many short passes this year. Yes, we are a better defense with him on the field but the whole team needs to play better. Stay on the field, Jimmy, and show the world what it means to "Play like a Raven." As Adam Jones likes to say, "Show up, Put up and Shut up!" Just DO YOUR JOB!

I find your post amusing. While Ray was not playing at full strength the year we won the Super Bowl and was certainly past his peak, he was an inspiration to his teammates on and off the field. That's an intangible. His leadership and inspiration was highly motivational for the team and they rode the crest of an emotional wave to and thru the SB. As for John getting the most out of his players every week, he did just the opposite this year. Most of our fan base assumed we would be in the playoffs in 2016 and predicted a winning season. The team under-achieved this year and he failed miserably to get the most out of his players in the last four weeks of the season when our record was 1-3. With our destiny in our own hands and a record of 8-6 at the time, he failed to get the most out of his players in the last two weeks of the season. The truth is this. John Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin are good cheerleaders but neither is a Top Five coach. I disagree that he would have his pick of NFL head coaching positions if he left the Ravens. Jim Harbaugh wasn't in big demand when he left the Niners. He might have his pick of cheerleading squads though.

The thing about excuses is that everybody has one. If Jimmy can't stay healthy, he can't help the team win. Whether he's injury prone or its bad luck isn't the issue. The issue is his lack of durability. In the Not For Long League, a player has to show up, put up and shut up. He hasn't shown that he can do that yet, year in and year out. Getting props from NFL.com's Next Gen Stats isn't helping him stay on the field. Deion Sanders was a shutdown corner who was not a big hitter. Sometimes Jimmy is a big hitter but he's not close to being a shutdown corner like Sanders was even when he's healthy. That's a fact. I'd rather see him be a shutdown corner than a big hitter. That being said, I hope he can be healthy next year and be an impact player in 2017 but I'm starting to have my doubts.

Congratulations on your epiphany! With all the dead money we have, it will be hard to get this team turned around next year. There are just too many holes to fill and not enough good coaching to make it happen. A career change would be good for John and the Ravens.

You're entitled to your opinion even if its wrong. 1. The 2016 draft was OK but it was not great like many of the Ravens homers and brass want us to believe. It did not resolve two of our most glaring deficiencies at the cornerback and the pass rushing positions. It provided us with a starting O-lineman and possibly two but our O-line was grossly mismatched this year compared to that of Pittsburgh, Dallas, Atlanta, NE and the other playoff teams. Heading into the offseason, we need a legitimate center, a right tackle and a left guard. That's all! Did you see a center named Mike Pouncey pull and block for Le'Veon Bell on a run around the corner in the playoff game against the Chiefs? 2. I added an ILB to the list to replace a pretty good undrafted player neamed Zach Orr. Didn't he lead our team in tackles and intercept four passes? I hope you're right about Onuwasur. Time will tell. 3. Yes, Pittsburgh was a playoff team but they weren't that much better than us. I assume you would agree. One of the main differences in their team and ours is that they started three rookies on defense. Saying we were within an arm stretch away from beating a team that is not much better than us is not saying much. The NFL is now saturated with a lot of mediocre teams. Most of the playoff games were decided by lop-sided scores. Currently, there are a small number of teams who are head and shoulders better than all the rest and then there are the also-rans like us. 4. I don't believe I referenced the Steelers' coaches when I said we need a change in the culture of this team. I referred to Bill Belichick and Dan Quinn. Its evident that the Falcons made some good off-season moves that resulted in a vastly improved team. We didn't! As long as you want to make believe we're heading in the right direction, I guess that's your prerogative. To me, denial is not just a river in Egypt. This team has to some wholesale changes to make before it can expect to get back into the playoffs. There are just too many holes to fill (no pun intended).

Think what you want but that won't make your dreams come true. This team has real problems to face and they start at the top of the organization. I you think we had an excellent draft in 2016, think again. Other than Ronnie Stanley, who else distinguished himself? Now, you can add an ILB to the laundry list of needs we have heading into the offseason. One has only to compare our team's on the field performance with the playoff teams to see that we are not a playoff caliber team. Its true that we came within a play of beating the Steelers. All that proves is that we are not that much worse than them. It does not mean that we can contend against teams like New England or Atlanta. Our team has a lot of work to do to regain its past glory and it won't happen by wishing it will be so. The organizational culture must change and how will that happen without a new coaching staff? Offense sells tickets, defense wins games and coaches win championships. If you don't believe it, just ask Bill Belichick or Dan Quinn.

Yeah, its called finding a scapegoat. If I were Greg Roman, I'd rent a house rather than buy one. He's taking a demotion to come here and do basically the same thing Castillo was doing. Now, Frazier has shuffled off to Buffalo. So much for continuity!

Wow! I don't know what you do but for someone who claims to be in a competitive business, you don't handle criticism very well. Just read your above posts. You like to throw darts at others but don't like it when folks reciprocate. Well, I hope your business is prospering and your record was better than 8-8 this year. I see you have been a member for almost 10 years and have posted 8,890 posts. I don't know how someone who is in a competitive business finds the time to read all of these blog posts and respond twice a day unless you're a journalist. Congrats on that! TCB!!! Since this is a Joe Flacco: Tough Talk thread and we're on page 94 of 94, I'll rest my defense of Joe by stating categorically that I think Joe is regressing in his mechanics and skills. On that point, I'm sure you agree. The more important question to pose here in this thread is why he is regressing. That's more complicated and its where you and I cannot agree. To me, its patently obvious why he is regressing and not progressing. There are a variety of reasons, some of which are within his control and some of which are not. I would submit that 90% of the reasons are beyond his control so he can only deal with the 10% as I'm sure he will. Unfortunately, the NFL places a high value on $$$$$$$. A former boss of mine was fond of saying "A hungry dog hunts best." I believe that Joe is not as hungry as he was and that is part of his problem but not all of it. If it were the only problem, it should also affect the play of other highly paid QBs.

Great idea, Sport! Why didn't I think of that?

Well, there you go! That settles it!! Harbs knows it, huh? He didn't even seem to know Elvis Doomerville had a partially torn Achilles tendon. I'm with you on the fix though. Fix the O-line, get the running game going again and add what Ozzie calls a complementary WR (whatever that means) and Joe will be back next season. Hopefully, Oz means a WR who complements Joe's skill set. I disagree that Joe didn't play up to his standard in at least half the games this year but I'm sure you are referring to the fact that he had 8 Ws and 8 Ls so its hard to argue about that.

And this is one of the few times I agree with you on something. We were definitely under achievers. There's no doubt about it!

I feel your pain!

I saw it too. Sorry! There's no way Joe can meet your expectations or the "best owner in the biz's" w/o some major changes to this team. Our O-line stunk again this year, our receivers were mediocre except for Smith and Pitta and our running game was, well, slightly less than good. Our RBs need to learn how to block blitzing LBs & Ss. Other than that and overhauling the defense everything is hunky dory. Keep your dream alive though 'cause that's all it is. I think you know better than to compare Joe to Brock Osweiler but it makes for good theater, doesn't it? Sounds like Joe got a promotion to me. Didn't Bisciotti invite him to the next pow wow in Jupiter? This is getting to be better than a daytime soap opera, "As the Ravens Turn." Harbaugh needs to coach better, Oz needs to draft better and Joe needs to play better. Thanks, Steve, O Master of the Obvious!

I'm just trying to point out a fundamental truth, which is Joe is not the main problem. He needs to work on mechanics and going through progressions. That is true. However, what you and others fail to understand is that he is not the main problem. He can use this offseason to improve his accuracy all he wants but his receivers are not playmakers like some of the names dropped on this thread. I'm still waiting to hear what a complementary wide receiver is. That's one of Oz's priorities, isn't it? Who will the receiver complement? Despite the lack of talented playmakers on this team, Joe managed to complete 21 passes in a row in a game this year. Yeah, some of them were dink & dunk passes. He would have had the NFL record were it not for a dropped pass in the endzone by Wallace. Of course, its not the only time he's threaded the needle in the endzone only to have one of our erstwhile receivers drop a perfectly thrown ball. He's not throwing to Dez, Antonio, Megatron, Odell, Julio, Jordy or Gronk. He's been throwing to Kamar Aiken, Chris Moore, Marlon Brown, Darren Waller, Lee Evans and others who were past their prime. Remember, we decided Anquan Boldin wasn't worth the money and he's still ballin. I don't think Anquan left due to Joe's errant passes. John Unitas was a pretty good QB in his day. I hope you would agree. He also had some pretty good weapons named Lenny Moore, John Mackey, Raymond Berry and Jimmy Orr, just to name a few. Yet, his career completion percentage is not as high as Joe's. I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I'm merely trying to point out to you that Joe is an excellent QB who would be even better if this organization would draft the right players. Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis were Oz's 1st & 2nd draft picks in 1996. He can't rest on his laurels forever or can he? Also, many Ravens fans who don't like Joe blame all the team's woes on him. I guess they didn't watch the 2nd Pittsburgh game. It was a very exciting game and Joe had it won. The defense gave up 21 points in the 4th quarter. I feel Joe deserves a better fate than to be blamed for the obvious coaching deficiencies on this team. He's just a scapegoat and provides our head coach and front office with a smoke screen. That's all folks!

That's a 15 yard penalty for piling on! What I said is what Jerry Jones said, period. Professional football is becoming more entertainment and less sport with many games decided by P-poor officiating. The National Collegiate Championship Game was much more exciting than any Pro Game I watched all year. Unfortunately, I missed the Rose Bowl. The Cowgirls are as good as they are 'cause Jerry's kids outplayed our kids and his talent evaluators are better than ours. Put Zeke in the backfield with Joe Flacco and its a whole new ball game. I like running around in circles. It keeps me in shape and its entertaining. Do your homework and you'll find that the NFL brand is parity, except for the Patriots. Bill Belichick is so good that he and Harbaugh could switch jobs and Belichick would beat the Patriots with our team. You can take that to the M&T Bank!

You and some of your younger protégés need to wake up and smell the roses. There's a terrific musical out there that you might enjoy. Its called La La Land. I listened to the End of the Year rapper or presser or whatever that was and one thing is evident. The Owner is "bewildered", the Coach looks scared,the GM is clueless and, oh yes, there was Dick Cass who was probably wondering why he was there. So, you have a problem with my assessment of our WRs? Well, we're even 'cause I have a problem with yours. Except for Steve Smith, who was an absolute baller and Dennis Pitta, the Wide guys couldn't catch a cold. Now, I'm reading some posts which imply that Breshad Perriman will return next year as the #1 WR. If that's true, we're in a whole lot more trouble than anyone could have imagined. Isn't Mike Wallace returning? Also, did you listen to the GM's laundry list of needs? He wants a complementary WR. If I had been in attendance I would have pressed him on that one. Complementary to whom? That press conference was worst than the Cincy game. They may be sleepless in Seattle but it appears we're clueless in Baltimore. You can't have it both ways. You said yourself that Joe's work ethic is next to none. He worked out at the Castle on days when others didn't even venture out in the snow. He'll do whatever it takes this offseason to improve upon his game. I'm more concerned about the work ethic of some of his receivers now that Steve's gone. Maybe we could draft the Clemson WR who is 6'-3" tall with a 40 inch vertical! He might be a complementary wide receiver. He made a nice catch on a back shoulder throw, which is something Joe is really good at.

I'm just a casual fan of the sport. It seems like you have it all figured out so there's no need to refute what you say. I said my piece in my last post on this topic. I would have fired John after the Cincy game and brought in someone with some knowledge of the Xs & Os of football. We have better cheerleaders on the sideline than John. What we need is a better coach! To answer your first question, yeah, I listened to Mr. Bisciotti and it became all to evident to me where he is. He has gotten to the point where he looks at the game like Jerry Jones does. Jerry regards his coaches and players as performers on a stage. He even said so earlier this year. As long as they entertain the fans, winning is not as important to him as making money. Unfortunately, Steve is following the same path. Well, the NFL product is becoming more boring with each passing year and if you felt entertained this year by our entry, then that's great for you. I didn't think it was that entertaining. BTW, this thread is about Harbaugh's seat. There's another thread for you to lambast Joe Flacco so how 'bout staying on point? Anyway, I have reached the final conclusion John's seat isn't hot; in fact its not even warm yet as evidenced by the Final Presser. When Steve said Harbaugh could do a better job of coaching, that was an understatement but it spoke volumes. Thank you, Oh Master of the Obvious!

Re #1, average is 8-8. Its not a winning season. It raises an interesting question though. I wonder what Bisciotti's expectations were for the season. He did say he was "bewildered" whatever that means. Re #2, I place a high value on continuity to a point. For instance, I feel our success has been tempered by having a revolving door at the OC level is bad. The same thing can be said about the Head Coach position. Pittsburgh has had three coaches in a lot more years of history than ours. However, there comes a point in time when you have to assess whether you've reached the point of diminishing returns. For me, we're there. After a 3-0 start, we wound up at 8-8 so we went 5-8 the rest of the way. It sounds eerily similar to our 5-11 record last year. I can remember a similar situation when Marty Schottenheimer was the Redskins head coach. His team started out 0-5 and wound up at 8-8. At season's end, he was fired after one season as head coach. I disagreed with that decision because I felt the team had turned the corner and it would be foolish to fire him. In our case, the Ravens wound up with the same record as Schottenheimer's team but our performance got worse after a strong start. As an owner, he needs to ask why our performance got worse. If the #1 reason was the injuries, Mr. Bisciotti should have said so. To lay it all at the feet (no pun intended) of Joe Flacco is disingenuous IMHO. I think this team has some big problems in the front office and in the coaching staff, not to mention a lack of identity on either side of the line. If the culture doesn't change, neither will the play on the field. Motivation comes from within. Morale starts at the top and the morale of the team right now is not good and even a casual fan can see it. The Cincy game was an absolute embarrassment no matter how you spin it. Sometimes owners have to make difficult decisions. This owner is just putting off the inevitable. Consider the return on your investment, Mr. Bisciotti, and cut your losses (again, no pun intended).

So, I assume you don't consider yourself a casual fan. Did you see a lot of dropped passes this year? Did you see a lot of our receivers lay out for catches? Did you see a lot of separation between our receivers and their defenders who played a lot of bump and run coverage? BTW, what you said was a knock on Joe. You gave his receivers none of the blame for the dropped passes. I'm talking about Aiken, Perriman and Wallace. To his credit, SSSr went on ESPN and said "there were times we let Joe down this year." And he's retired so he can be honest and say whatever he wants. What are they going to do; fire him? Joe doesn't have Julio, Antonio B, Antonio G, Odell, Gronk, Jordy et cetera et cetera. The closest he had to that elite group was a 37 year old great football player who just retired. What's he do for an encore next year? Are we hoping one of our current receivers will magically turn into Megatron? It ain't gonna happen.

You're a quick study, Lord Jonny Baltimore! As you have figured out, I'm one of Joe's biggest advocates. Having said that, I was disappointed in his play in the first half of the season when we had to make hay while the sun was shined. Unfortunately, we didn't put "the hay in the barn" often enough in the early going to stockpile enough "W"s so that we could weather the storm that hit us in the last four game stretch. As someone who has played sports and has had several serious sports injuries, I was not surprised that it has taken Joe all season to overcome the psychological side of his injury. On that point, I would agree with Owner Bisciotti. He expects more from Joe but I believe he also understood what Joe had to overcome. Where I disagree with Owner Bisciotti is on his overall bewilderment. I'm not the least bit bewildered about what transpired this year. I sincerely believe that this team was a group of underachievers which included but wasn't limited to my 6'6" franchise QB. Like someone else said previously, I cannot imagine Antonio Brown would have scored if he was hit at the goal line by Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, instead of Eric Weddle and C.J. Moseley with Zach Orr nonchalantly closing in (even as good as the latter three players are). Joe needs to be a big part of the solution moving forward but he is the least of our problems. AND you need a screen moniker. Joe showed up big time in the Pittsburgh game and had us ahead by 10 points with a little over 10 minutes to play. Remember? Unfortunately, he can't play offense and defense. As you probably know, Chuck Bednarik was the last NFLer to play both ways in 1960.

Didn't Joe come within one completion of breaking the consecutive pass streak in a game this year when he completed 21 or 22 straight passes? If I remember correctly, the pass that would have set a new record was a TD pass dropped by Mike Wallace. If that's not accuracy, what is?

Well, we're not here to debate kickers anyway so I'll just say I disagree. On the QB comparison, I do think it makes a huge difference in the statistics although I must admit I haven't analyzed the stats recently to see if there's a pattern. It would be difficult to draw any conclusions for a QB who has played his entire career indoors versus outdoors. I would just point out that Johnny U never completed more than 60% of his passes in a season and I suspect he would have done better playing indoors. Someone on this Matty Ice: Soft Talk blog earlier pointed out that he's all set up to play all of his playoff games indoors. I haven't heard anyone refute that he wouldn't benefit from playing two playoff games indoors.

My moniker has nothing to do with what I said about Boldin's career stats and his skill set. If you think that being a part of a Super Bowl team is a down year, then we have nothing further to discuss.