OUravensfan

On 1/3/2017 at 6:51 PM, Steve0x said:

Relax,,We won 2 superbowls already,,How many Marvin Lewis won on the Bengals?

Don't stop there, I love bringing this up when I'm backed in a corner, in 7 years Joe Flacco and John Harbaugh managed to double the amount of playoff wins the Cincinnati Bengals franchise has amassed in over 50 years. 

On 12/31/2016 at 7:03 PM, callahan09 said:

You know how they say in baseball momentum is the next game's starting pitcher?  It's kinda like that.  In a very real sense, the #1 reason we missed the playoffs is because the defense gave up 3 touchdowns in the 4th quarter in Pittsburgh.  If they had done their job in the most recent game against our biggest rival in the biggest situation of the season, then we would have won that game and we'd be in charge of the division right now headed to Cincy to play a severely diminished version of that team without our biggest thorn AJ Green on the field.  We'd be headed to the playoffs, don't you have ANY doubts about it.  The season was a struggle from start to finish.  We did enough up to about 1 minute remaining in the penultimate game of the year against our biggest rival to be in a position to be sitting there with a 9-6 record and 5-0 in the division including sweeping the Steelers, who would be sitting at 3-2 in the division, swept by us, and on the outside looking in.  But the defense gave the division to the Steelers.  It's really, when it comes down to it, as simple as that.

Now, I understand the point of looking at every single other thing that ALSO could have been different to get us into the playoffs, because diagnosing everything is what needs to be done in the offseason to have an even greater chance of success next year.

But the team was in a better position than Pittsburgh at about 7:30pm on Christmas night.  And the defense gave it all away (as they have done at record-setting pace in games in which we take the lead in the 4th quarter since last year!).

I am at a point where Dean Pees is the number one priority.  He must be fired.  We can't settle for this bend-but-break-anyway defense anymore.  His defense fails us at the critical moment OVER and OVER and OVER again.  Enough is enough.  As players started to get over injuries, as Mornhinweg got into his role a little bit more (remember, he took over mid-season at OC), as Flacco got his legs and confidence back, as some of our new starters this year (Wallace and Perriman) got their experience and chemistry a little bit under their belts with this team, what happened?  The offense started to improve.  They aren't getting enough credit for being top 10 in both yards and points since the bye week.  

And it could be significantly higher if not for wide receiver error.  

We have had an absurd amount of dropped passes including touchdowns over the past few games, plus a bunch of interceptions that were the direct result of wide receiver misplays.  Without those turnovers and with some more completed passes that would be caught by the more reliable wide receivers across the league, this offense would have put up even more stats and points.  But even without counting those caveats, the offense improved, and with the caveats I think it is enough that I'd prefer to give Marty another chance at OC next year.  Fact is, those players were in a position to move ball and put points on the boards.  That's all the OC can do.  And he did that.  The players just messed up on their end of the bargain more often than I'd have liked to have seen.  I don't pin that on the OC.  If it comes down to keeping Pees or Marty... I want to keep Marty.  It's insanity to keep with Pees and keep expecting different results.  If we ask his defense to protect a 1-score lead with more than a minute or so on the clock, his defense WILL give it up.  That's just the way it is.

Drops have been maddening once again 

44 minutes ago, BigUgly said:

Perriman should have been at least as productive as Torrey Smith ( a 2nd round pick) was. Torrey also couldn't run most routes well, but he could run the heck out of fly and go routes and pick up a PI call if he couldn't catch the ball - usually because Joe overthrew it. I wonder if Joe's arm even remembers how to throw deep anymore - he'd probably unintentionally drill an underneath linebacker in the chest the process.

How many such routes did you see called for Perriman this year? I counted none (and am not including the 20 yd. fade route where he only got 1 foot inbounds).

The one he dropped against Washington I believe, he got wide open and the ball went straight through his hands 

4 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

To those that wanted facts on Joe Flacco being inefficient:

http://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/32522/ravens-cant-win-with-joe-flacco-being-the-nfls-most-inefficient-quarterback

 

Everything seemed so hard this year, every yard. We must fix that for next year, I think if we can run the ball better and we run more we should fair better.

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Right, but we're not talking about drafting a QB to sit one year.

If you're drafting a QB that needs to sit for like 3-4 years just so that MAYBE he can be a starter, you're better off not drafting that guy at all.

I would agree, or you could always draft a 31 year old like Cleveland did.

3 minutes ago, eze17 said:

So...Newton, Stafford and Ryan: no championships. Rodgers & Wilson have same number of rings as Flacco. Give Big Ben his due, and Brady is being considered as one of the best QB's that has ever played in the NFL...

Can't carry A team? Did you even watch our Super Bowl year? 11 TD's with NO INT? Come on, man...

I still say Ben is incredibly overrated and has had great talent, either offensive or defensive, around him his whole career. Until last year he never made the playoffs without a top 5 defense.

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Sort of defeats the purpose of the drafted QB though.

For starters, I would like to see how many quality starting QBs there are in the league that sat behind somebody for literally like 3-5 years and "developed" into a good player. Aaron Rodgers is about the only example I see of this, and he sat 3 years... and that was over a decade ago. 

The entire benefit of rookie QBs playing well is that you get them for cheap. 

Good point, Palmer sat a full year behind Kitna is the other one that stands out, also a while ago.

I guess they know more than us, but since Castillo got here we had one good running season and that was with Kubiak.

28 minutes ago, Ravenpurple said:

Really?! Aren't we tight against the cap EVERY year? And I am still failing to see the value that we should be realizing by spending on some of these more veteran players.

We are constantly tight against the cap, have a really aging roster, have had poor drafts (save for last year's I hope), and are absolutely handcuffed by Joe's huge contract. For heaven's sake, Ben Roethlisberger (spelling?), Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Matt Stafford, and Matt Ryan made LESS than Joe last year and are all putting up numbers substantially better than Joe's ( and have been at some point in the MVP discussion ). Bad spending. Bad.

I would rather blow this thing up and know that we are trying to move forward than continue to put band aids on this mess in effort to "try and surround" Joe with the talent to win. You surround Teddy Bridgewater, Jay Cutler, Carson Palmer, Alex Smith with talent to help them win because they can't carry a team, - not top tier QBs like we are paying Joe to be.

If everyone in local and national media, and majority of the fans (and probably coaches) agree he is not the kind of QB that will carry a team, then why are we paying him like one then? And don't give me that "well that is what the market says he should be paid" garbage either, - see above.

Of course since I posted this, Joe will have an MVP season next year, we will have a top 5 offense AND defense, and we will win the Superbowl. Then I will eat my words, - and gladly!!

All those guys are surrounded by significantly more talented offensive weapons, a few mil difference between franchise QB contracts isn't the reason, prioritizing offensive weapons in the draft and FA is. Or just being better at scouting said offensive weapons in the draft and FA. And having competent offensive schemes. 

It's actually quite pathetic that Browns fans are more excited about Hue Jackson who won one game than we seemingly are about Harbaugh 

18 minutes ago, Purple_City39 said:

Just the last 3 games of the season?  Every other game was carried by the defense?

What about the Oakland game were just threw 61%, 300 yards, no INTs and the defense gave up 28?

How about Dallas when he threw 65%, 269 yards, no INTs, and the defense gave up 27 points AND let Dallas eat up pretty much all the clock in the second half?

New England wasn't part of the last 3 games.  71%, 320 yards, 1 INT, 30 points allowed by Baltimore though.

Let's actually take Joe out of it and focus on the defense now.  Remember when Eli threw for 400 yards with 212 going to Beckham Jr. in one half?

This is almost half a season's worth of bad defensive performances, but you say they carried the team?  Don't get me wrong, the offense was not good, but let's not over hype the defense due to skewed numbers from playing the juggernaut offenses in Cleveland, Jacksonville, Buffalo, etc.  Did this dominant defense stop one good offense all year?  Just checked, every top 10 offense we faced moved up and down the field at will against our top 10 defense.

I haven't even mentioned allowing 35 of Pittsburgh's 45 points in the 4th quarter.  I haven't mentioned the many 4th quarter leads given up.  

But yeah, keep telling yourself the defense was actually great or even deserving of that top 10 ranking.  Both units need improvement

Agree. The one unit I bragged about confidently was the D line specifically rush defense. Ever since the Patriot game with some foreshadowing by Dallas that completely disappeared, I hate having this debate about which side was the reason we lost more games the fact that we have the debate yields an answer that both sides need improvement as you say. Both sides need to be more clutch, tired of this BS.

Schedule is the schedule, we really need to sweep the Bengals it's getting ridiculous. 

Wilson, if Joe threw 5 INTs in a game this year he'd be crucified. If Joe threw 4 INTs in a championship game and then the game losing INT in the SB the following week he'd be crucified.

9 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

Very understandable.  Nothing wring with what you just said, but many seem to only see things as black or white here.

Definitely agree there, with a game that involves 22 players on the field at once and many coaches, it's typically always more than one thing.

5 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

looking at available free agents im not sure that there are any that i'd like the ravens to take on - they either look like players ready to be overpaid or players looking way too expensive to take on

Maybe we do keep Kamar after all, it fits the continuity theme as well. It seems natural that by subtracting Smith you give Kamar more targets, the plays he missed really stand out to me however. The Pittsburgh blunder really illustrates perfectly what his ceiling is. But he would be a good possession WR to have if we can't find anyone else. 

Doesn't mean much now but I really wanted Crabtree a few years ago, and he fell hard to the second wave of FA.

1 minute ago, redrum52 said:

Yea that Pees prevent when he sent multiple heat and we got absolutely no pressure on those final drives against Pit. 

 

 

You want to see less collapses, how about the offense do their job as well and keep scoring.  Not one or 2 drives that are gifted, but sustain drives and get tds.  Also helpful if you do it for more than a quarter or quarter and a half.  But that seems to be crazy talk around here...

It's a little bit of both, and they both complement each other in terms of always being on the exact opposite page in a given game, it's maddening. In general, save from 2014 (and we did it then too) I'm so tired of debating scheme vs players, execution vs gameplan, offense vs defense, etc as to why we loose (I understand we have to and it's constructive, but you get the point I'm making). 

Normally, 27 points is enough on the road in Pittsburgh, they did falter as they did so often in the redzone, didn't take advantage of two illegal procedures and only got 3 on defensive INTs....If the offense has a slow start and the defense keeps the game within 2 scores, we usually witness an offensive rally leading to the go-ahead score with < 2-3 minutes left only to watch the defense give up the real game winning drive--I think everyone is tired of this dynamic. 

6 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I said it in the other thread but if we're sticking with Marty then build the offense to pass the ball and air it out all day and use the pass to set up the run. Get rid of Zuttah or make him a backup by signing Tretter or drafting a center high and instill more weapons at WR. 

I'm probably in a minority but I'm glad Pees is sticking around. I think his defense could be great if we actually gave him a good young pass rusher and another quality CB across from Jimmy for once. I like Young but I'd rather have Jones and Smith outside and Young inside. Regardless we need more talent back there. The defense wasn't bad it just got exposed for its old pass rushers. 

The last 5 weeks is super concerning on defense, our vaunted run defense literally vanished. And sure, maybe no one cared last Sunday, but we let Rex Burkhead run for over 100 yards on us. We let Rex Burkhead run for over 100 yards on us.....Rex Burkhead. Or whatever his name is. 

I will agree, we have seen it demonstrated timeless times, we need another CB to compliment Jimmy as his health is unreliable. Pass rusher was an obvious need that became crucially clear down the stretch. 

If we get better on the O-line and get a solid possession WR we will have a better offense next year, 0 doubts.

1 hour ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

At a glance every team has at least 2-3 keys to success. Looking at us, Flacco isn't a QB like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, or even Big Ben, he will not go out there and consistent exceed the level of the talent around him. He will only go as far as the offense around him is built. We have two young talented running backs with an offensive line that is geared towards pass protection. Perriman and Wallace are speedsters, but don't really play consistently. I seriously don't think we will ever have an elite offense but if we can get a mailer at C and LG, we will at least be able to run the ball effectively and help out Flacco and actually utilize his strengths. 

Our biggest weakness two seasons straight is we cannot hold the lead late in games. Look at the amount of Go Ahead TDs surrendered this and last year. Pittsburgh, Raiders, Giants, Patriots, Bengals at home,etc. 

we have a legit run stuffing unit. Great ILBs, a premier safety in Weddle, great corners in young and Smith--barring health, but we seen the problem--the pass rush isn't getting there. Even when it does, our lack of depth gets exposed. Suggs should be a second and third down guy only and dumervil should only hit the field on 3rd in obvious passing situations. We need pass rushers to get home so we can drop 6-7 guys to cover running lanes. We land tim Williams, Barnett or maybe even McKinley and we already look a lot better off when you pair them with Judon who just needs better technique. Then we add a legit top 5-10 corner from the loaded draft class and we will not implode the moment jimmy leaves the game.

 

Neither is Ben

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

This is my thing. Im ok with bringing marty back, but we need a Dennison in the QB room with joe to focus on his mechanics or we're not going anywhere regardless.

 

Look - i know people hate this move.... but Joes the guy whether anyone likes it or not. He wants continuity and thats going to play a large part in the decision making. He has a relationship with Marty, and thinks he can make it work with him. When your franchise player, who's most effected by said decision endorses keeping the current guy - you do it.

I think this puts more pressure on Joe than Harbs to be honest... 

Fair, we need to improve the O-line drastically, it was awful, among the league worse. That will go miles and miles. 

When watching other games it's maddening when you see how clean pockets can be and subsequently, how wide open WRs can get. We never seem to do a good job of scheming guys open, did we get anyone as open as Brady had Hogan against us?

I want to be positive and embrace continuity but two bothersome things with both Trestmann and Marty:

a.) It seemed like we lacked an identity, couldn't figure out if we should be running or passing, eventually every game devolved into us throwing 35+. Brady, Ben etc all had games where they threw for more TDs with less than 30 attempts which leads me to my second point

b.) Everything seemed so, so hard. Super inefficient, I cannot watch another year where we have to throw to run, and can't achieve > 8 YPA, these are serious issues that I think are telling with the underlying offensive philosophy (or lack there of)

This decision really puts Harbaugh under the microscope going forward, these are the guys he wants to roll with. On offense, we need to see much greater efficiency, I want bigger plays, I want more effective runs and way, way more PA with actual deep throws. Joe Flacco is not a dink and dunk QB, for gods sake play to his strengths.

On defense it's quite simple, can we be clutch? I'm so tired of arguing over is it players or methodology? Idc anymore, we better make the playoffs next year.

Marty and Dean stay, so continuity it is. We need to get better players to make up for the average to below average coordinators.

2 hours ago, law215 said:

Marty should not return in any capacity. Joe has not develop since his been his QB coach and the offense stinks.

Yanda's response makes me believe no one, including himself, challenges the coaches on anything.

I hope so too, when's the likely timeframe of when we'll know?

51 minutes ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

Harbaughs been HC for 9 years 1 Division title the first job of head coach win your Division 1 in 9 not very good that's the bottom line

He won 2, 2011 and 2012, also went 12-4 in 2010. Not many coaches have 10 playoff wins, Marvin Lewis has more division titles is he better?

On 12/30/2016 at 11:11 AM, Perfekt said:

He should have rested and not held us back. I'm happy he wanted to fight through the injury but he hurt us more then helped us this season.

Yea this is always a funny dynamic in professional sports, a player has a down year than immediately after that year concludes it comes out that player was actually hurt and hindered way more than previously led on. 

Doom and Sugggs disappear too much, still need to address it this off season.