ravensfan520

If we can get a stop... I think we can change the momentum and win this game. Our offense just keeps fizzling out.

That was a nice catch wish he could have been in bounds.

Keep the ball moving.

Our defense is not playing really bad against a very balanced offense. If our offense can make some plays we have a chance.

1. You're right... they've both having good years. They both also have much more talent overall, particularly on defense, than we do.

2. The FO, to this point, has been operating under the same way we've always wanted them to... run the ball, play great defense (by investing in the defense, both in the draft and financially). The reason that's not working this year is because the defense isn't very good.

3. Nobodies making excuses for him... he gets full blame when he throws dumb INTs just like every QB does. But there's a gigantic difference between thinking that we are making excuses for him and suggesting that he should be released. Suggesting he should be released is ludicrous, as largely proved by my post earlier outlining the basic optimal expectation you can have for releasing him, and showing how that optimal replacement (basically a Dalton/Newton type) might take several years to obtain. In the mean time, we lose games, plain and simple.

I'm as critical of Joe as anybody, because he's an incredibly pedestrian regular season QB for the most part. This nothing new to anybody, so why all of the sudden now its somehow a conversation topic I don't understand. We know his postseason play speaks for itself, which is why he is paid what he is paid.

We amplify his regular season struggles (which again, are nothing new) ONLY when the team isn't doing very well. In the grand scheme of things, he's playing better than he did in 2013, when he was below average, and the team still won 8 games. Yet, this team probably has no realistic shot at winning 8 games... so whats the difference? He's better than his previous season where he had very little weapons, and the teams winning less games. The difference? The other personnel on the team.

Cutting Joe doesn't solve any problems... it creates new one's. If you want to bash him for throwing dumb picks and when he plays poorly, go for it. Its the flavor of the week when the team is struggling.

But why wasn't anybody suggesting we cut him after last season when he had (yet again) another great postseason and his best regular season as a pro? You mean in 6 regular seasons games he's somehow gone from being worth every penny we paid for him (and frankly more) to now not even being worth a roster spot?

Sorry, logically that just doesn't hold up. These QBs ain't growing on trees in the back yard where you can just go grab one at will...

O, and Pro Bowls are beauty contests. Nobody cares about them, half the invitees turn them down, and its never a positive to reference it in the context of proving how good somebody is. Our current backup QB, who's 1/100th the QB Joe is, has been to a Pro Bowl, and Joe hasn't.

Its utterly meaningless.

Well to be honest I have never been a Flacco fan... I was always a fan of the team. I held the belief that we should have went the route of letting him walk and take the comp pick if someone signed him... build an offense around the running game and defense... like the bills should be doing for Taylor.(defense is not playing like they should). Why do it know to me sounds like the best chance... we are going to have a high draft pick and we are going to have more cap space... let's use that to build on for the future and not just continue the cycle that we are on his since his last contract... in the playoffs out of playoffs... etc. Our staples players are gone... and to believe that Flacco is the guy who will be the staple player of Raven football is what's crazy... even when we're down before Flacco we had teams that people loved to watch... a disruptive defense that brought passion and ground and punded into submission. Now we have a team and it had been like this for a while... an offense that can't get on track 3 and out punt... get lucky on a deep ball or Steve Smith who is leaving break off a great monster run. When Steve is gone... are we to expect that our rookie who can't get on the field or the other wrs are going to do that. Maybe Flacco is bummed because his best field may not be Ravens much longer and he is wanting to flame out. This team has slowly lost its edge since Ray and now Sizzle is down... build it back... and Flacco is not that guy. And everyone talks about Flacco in the playoffs... what about his 4th quarter int to lose it for us when we had the ball moving with about a minute to go. Boldin is not here... He is not going to jump and grab a high throw and come down with it to save the game. I love SSS but he is not that guy.

I mean everything looks great when you start finding the outliers, but outliers are outliers for a reason. Heck, we should just keep holding out hope that we find a 6th round gem like Tom Brady, and lets just ignore the fact that its been 15+ years since that happened.

Lets be realistic here... the college QB market is a baron wasteland. QBs like Blake Bortles and Derek Carr are about the absolute best you can expect from college right now.

Straight face and all, how many QBs drafted since 2008 (the year Flacco was drafted) are walking around in this league that play QB better than Joe Flacco right now?

Lets take a look:

If you take just QBs drafted from 2009-2014, lets go round by round at who these QBs are:

1st round QBs: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Cam Newton, Jack Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, EJ Manuel, Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel

Of those guys, which even ONE, besides Andrew Luck, am I supposed to be impressed enough to say "yeah, that guy will do better than Flacco will right now"? I don't see a name on that list. The only debatable one's at this point would be Newton/Stafford/Tannehill, and they all get paid top dollar.

Lets go further:

2nd round QBs: Pat White, Jimmy Clausen, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Brock Osweiler, Geno Smith, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garapolo

Same question, who am I supposed to be impressed by? Dalton?

3rd round QBs: Colt McCoy, Ryan Mallett, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Mike Glennon

Here, there's Wilson, and a bunch of career backup type QBs

4th round QBs: Stephen McGee, Mike Kafka, Kirk Cousins, Matt Barkley, Ryan Nassib, Tyler Wilson, Landry Jones, Logan Thomas, Tom Savage

Kirk Cousins is the BEST of this group. Yikes.

I'd list all the 5th to 7th rounders, but its not worth it. The most accomplished on that list are Tyrod Taylor (who hasn't even started for a full season), Zach Mettenberger, and TJ Yates.

Not really that hard to see why "starting over" is so difficult for teams like the Browns, because you spend an eternity looking for a player who comes around once every five years, at best. And even that player is an Andy Dalton type.

Where's the upside? I don't care if the Browns are better than us right now... they're going to win 6-7 games just like they did last year and be irrelevant... just like they've been for many years. They got a pretty good defense and it means nothing because they have no consistency at QB and haven't for a long time. Until then, they are irrelevant.

I'd bet the Browns would cut half their defense just for the opportunity to sign Flacco, because they understand what most teams understand... good defensive players exist annually in the draft. Good QBs are incredibly rare these days.

Let's relook at that again... Dalton and Cam are having MVP type years... and Cam has less weapons than Flacco. Dalton has weapons but the Bengals have been giving Dalton weapons and we have been not... why I don't know could it be everyone in The office is trying to prove that he can do it without or is in the elite conversation. Hey and wasn't Dalton a probowler...

Every Flacco lover wants to make excuses for him because he is the best we have ever had... gain not saying much because before that we had Boller and some life long backups other than McNair. Go ahead extend him... but stop making excuses for him... sometimes when he is the problem... we need to start pointing fingers at the person who is supposed to be the leader of your offense.

On your topic of busts every position has its busts... we had quite a few as well as every team. It's not just the qb... even Mark Sanchez took his team to the AFC championship I think it was twice. Why... because their team was a rounded out team played smash mouth and had a great defense... like we did when Flacco was early in his years. My point is look at teams that surround their qb with talent when they are on their rookie contract and then look at them after they get their secound... Russell Wilson, Kapernick, Flacco, Stafford, and Sanchez etc... Only the elite qbs do it with the secound tier weapons or draft picks... Brady, Rogers, a less beat up/old Manning. QBs like Carr, Dalton, Bortles, Bridgewater, etc are building... we are not. So let's start. We can't expect Flacco to play like a journeyman qb and get paid like a top 10 guy when he is not. It's not just the records it the game film. Records are deceiving because like the Houston playoff game where we should have been blown out but Our Defense played great and we pulled out a win. Or the mile miracle that Jones pulls off. Without that debacle of coverage we may never have been having this conversation.

You'll be the Cleveland Browns for a decade under this strategy...

You mean the team that just outplayed us and looks like they are better going forward then we do... be serious... You never know we could build a team like the Bengals have slowly built... I mean Seattle won a superbowl with Russell Wilson who was a I think 5th round pick... I mean defenses are still important and we have complaining about not giving Flacco weapons but are forgetting to give the defense some real weapons.

I cannot believe people even waste their time thinking of Flacco not being a Raven next year. This organization and city loves Flacco and what he has done, obviously not everyone agrees but there are not much better options out there. Flacco will be extended and probably spend quite a few more years here, so I would probably get used to it. We will give him weapons this offseason on top of Gilmore, Williams and Perriman. Flacco is the one player we cannot live without, if we went and restarted it could be years until we sniff the playoffs again

I know everyone loves Flacco and he played well for us in his time here... just think about it since his big contract... He has done what... thrown a pic in the final drive in the afc championship last year... missed the playoffs after we lost Boldin... will miss the playoffs this year... (lets be honest with or withou weapons Flacco has not looked good)has looked awful. When he played on his rookie contract we had a more rounded team so his mistakes or flaws were either hidden by a tough defense or an remarkable play by former weapons. Luck has been on his side and my theory is his luck is running thin... the back footed throw and pray aren't working anymore and throw it deep and get a pass interference call is gone without torrey... my point is why extend Flacco out... and pay extend a quarterback who is on the back end of his career when we can rebuild a balanced team. This team has many holes and just given Flacco one wr or rb or 1 more weapon is not going to stop him from staring at that one wr and throwing into double coverage... just saying.

It's time to move on... He may be the best qb that's ever been as a raven but he really hasn't had much to contend against... whose to say we won't find a gem somewhere.

In the offseason trade Flacco to a cap friendly team or cut him if the dead money is not to much and cut Pitta. It's time to reboot. Rebuild the defense to a hard nosed team and look for a good journeyman qb to work with until we draft a new qb...

That's right I said let Flacco go... we don't have the money to give him lots of weapons and expect him and the offense to carry the team... he fizzles out too much and his clutch ability has diminished. It's time to regroup... the run was great but we need to move on sometime why not now and retool for another big run.

We will have a lot of picks... and possibly good picks... let's use them wisely and get young playmakers and sprinkle in some Nasty guys like keeping Suggs around.

man brooks is doing 1 heck of a job.

cant believe some people are actually suggesting players regressed under his watch.

i actually feel like williams and guy are much better then before and davis is coming along as well.

jernigan is the only guy i dont see making strides but then he again he seems to get banged up easily.

brown i think is doing a good job as well but im pretty sure some will blame him for tucker missing FGs lol

those 2 are keepers for sure.

agree though if we gonna fire pees , lets clean house.

I wouldnt mind Brooks as the new d coordinator. The players like him and he has keep his d line up to par... it's the rest that needs the help. And the d line is where all the youth and injuries have been.

This.. Flacco is very inaccurate. He makes most of these guys look like crappy WR's because his ball placement is poor.

I agree to that. I know Flacco had a great run... but sometimes it becomes evident that it's time to move on... for both parties to be happy and I think we are at that point. Even if we get a young qb if we can build around him on both sides of the ball we can build a better future. We are young in a lot of positions so now would be the time.

Here's my 2 cents about Flacco... take it for what it's worth... Flacco is the AFC version of Jay Cutler... He has a great arm... can make all the throws... needs wrs to bail him out because he throws a lot jump balls and behind the wrs... and stares at his wrs doesn't look off coverages and tries to fit everyball in the tightest coverage. Like Cutler when he is on... He has great numbers and can win some games... but when he is off he makes a lot of dumb mistakes. (And they both have ridiculous contracts that will bite their team in the end). Cutler worse than Flacco but we would have to extend him out and at the rate we are seeing now... that's not good for us. Oh they both have played now for Trestman.

If we are going to give Brown more reps and he plays well could we use D. Smith as trade potential to a playoff team... we need players... we can get a 5 or 6 with him and use that to draft a speedster wr or undersized Pass rusher in the late rounds. Smith is starting to show his wear and maybe has a year or 2 left. Make the move.

I'm going to keep saying this....I think Art Brown and on a lesser note Matt Elam are a victim of pees. Elam never should have been a first round pick but damn he's not a slot corner pees. I understand the injuries that year but in no way shape or form that our strong safety should have been covering wr you're asking for too much. Elam should have been a box safety primarily used to sniff out screens and blitz. They really asked too much of the kid....

Art brown I seriously am dumbfounded how we can't at least use him as a rusher. We have this ultra athletic LB and we can't do anything with him? Not even rush the passer? A real DC would've taken advantage of his speed and use him Where he can play, he's a 2nd round pick and was dominate in college. I just refuse to believe he lost all of that talent to where he can't get into a game in his career no way.

Brooks is another speed guy we can't seem to do anything with. Another talent in college. All of a sudden bad in baltimore.. All of this falls on peas IMO. I don't want to make this about pees but he has to go in order to kickstart the youth movement. I have a feeling these players wouldn't look half as bad in a new scheme

I agree with that... but I will extend a little further and say next year would be the perfect time to retool and step away from Flacco. I know everyone believes he is a franchise qb... maybe he is but he has a major contract that needs to be reworked and we are looking at a top 10 pick. So why not use the money we save by trading him to a team with cap space or cutting him and using the money to get playmakers for a young qb to develop with. The team needs to be retooled. I can live with a few down years if we can develop the team instead of using to many cap casualty veterans on their last leg. We had a great run and we can have another if we can draft well and not be afraid to make big moves in free agency. If Suggs is healthy we need to keep him and Upshaw. Pick up a real corner and stop messing around with cut players.

I know that sounds a little crazy but Flacco may have the ability to make all the throws and had a great postseason but he is just like Favre with the gunslinger mentality and throwing too many int... and you see how many superbowls Favre won... we need to move on instead of trying to string it out for many years past his prime. If we go with a youth movement... it needs to be all around.

Maybe even bring in a youth movement in coaching staff as well. The game has evolved and the old guys hanging around are not.

I don't know where to file this under... good bad or ugly. But there is a light at the end of tunnel. We have been playing with house money for quite some time. We are getting younger on both sides of the ball. Unfortunately the defense is the part that is looking bad. Our offense at times shows signs of life but at times shows it needs to grow. Not saying we need to blow it up but a down year would not be worst that could happen. We could retool through the draft and build for another run. With Sizzle out and undetermined on Doom we are hurting. If we can lock up our guards and restructure Flacco we will in good shape going forward. It sucks for Steve Smith but we can come back in the future stronger. Not saying we tank but if we land a top ten pick it may be what we need. A change in defense coaching would be a start. If Pagano is available and doesn't get a head coaching job I would start with him... but if not Brooks,Monachino or Martindale are good in house candidates. So i guess I'd we are going to keep this losing streak up we can at get our young guys the reps to build on for next year. We have a good core group just need to put it together.

Well I'm out... this was the last game I'll get to watch... I have cable and live out of network...

Well... what's our next move...

Well that didn't work.

Let's hope ross scores a td on the kickoff

We got the ball.. let's score a td.

We need the ball first... we need a td. Our d is wore out and playing horrible.

Forsett for mvp.

Wow we deserve to lose this game... this team has played aweful.

Oh my god

Another offsides... this is getting worse.