Claire

Did I forget to say that JJ is a HOTTIE!!!!!

LOVE YOU JJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What you just described is the job description of Father, not a professional sports franchise. Teaching integrity and fair play is something that would fall under the responsibility of a parent teaching a group of 10 year old players playing football for the first time.

 

These are adults. They were adults when they entered the league, and they'll be adults when they leave. If they haven't learned that things like integrity or fair play are important by the age of 21, chances are they'll never learn it. They're big boys.. if they want to cheat, they're going to cheat, values or no values.

 

Instilling values is all great and cute and everything, but there are millions of Americans who on a daily basis violate values that have been instilled in them, and its rarely the fault of the person who did or didn't instill them in them. Adults make their own decisions, and they frequently make those decisions knowing fully well what the consequences are.

 

By that logic, shouldn't we hold the Ravens directly responsible for failing to teach Ray Rice that knocking out your wife is a bad thing? Shouldn't we hold the Ravens directly responsible for failing to teach Haloti Ngata that he shouldn't use Adderall? 

 

Very, very, very slippery slope you're going down by blaming a sports franchise for not teaching values to adults. There are zero teams in this league who have done that effectively if that's the case.

You are joking, right? 

This is a professional sports team.  You get a paycheck.  It's not a slippery slope.  This is not the boy scouts.  You play by the rules.  When you break the rules you get fined and punished because it is a PROFESSIONAL SPORTS LEAGUE. 

What do Ray Rice's personal issues have to do with the rules of the game or the integrity of the sport?  Professionalism?  Whether an individual player has domestic violence issues or suffers from alcoholism that doesn't impact an organization's stand on fair play, integrity, or professionalism or abiding by the rules of the league.

Ngata was different.  His punishment was suspension from games  and loss of pay because he did impact the integrity of the game. He broke a specific NFL rule.  He knows lying doesn't work with the Ravens.  He was honest.  Integrity is a value for the Ravens organization.  That's why he spoke his truth and took it like a man.  He lost his paychecks. 

What world do you live in ...?

But you yourself just admitted that there is "no certain measurement for the quantity/quality of information". So if that's the case, how are you certain then that him not turning over his cellphone automatically means that he isn't in compliance by NFL standards? You couldn't possibly come to that conclusion... unless you knew what that measurement is. When the league determines that a person is not cooperating, its 100% based on some sort of examples or descriptions of times where that player did not. They don't just come out and say "well he didn't cooperate" without having a basis for that statement.

 

Based on the what the report said, we know that Brady failed to comply with meeting with the NFL on more than one occasion as the NFL requested (same thing applies for his "co-conspirators"), and that he made contradictory statements after he publicly denied knowledge of certain aspects that the investigators found he at least should have knowledge of. As I stated earlier, they already had Brady's text messages anyway, because the other parties involved provided them.

 

In the statement you quoted by Florio, he didn't mentioned any of the things you said he did. You posted that specifically to show how Florio basically thinks that the NFL gets what it wants all the time, as in when they want a piece of evidence or what somebody to provide that for them, they get it. I, logically, stated that this was false, and that Florio probably knows that its false. The NFLPA exists to be the opposite side of that equation in certain cases, as well as the fact that we've already seen precedence of the NFL being unable to obtain evidence that they desire from people. 

But you yourself just admitted that there is "no certain measurement for the quantity/quality of information".

You neglected to copy everything that I wrote, that is why you did not comprehend it. 

His act of not cooperating by not doing what was asked of him is NOT cooperating PERIOD.  He was asked to CHOOSE what he would give them... he wasn't asked to hand over the phone. Brady could CHOOSE which text and email messages.  He chose to give none because he felt they would be skeptical anyway. That was his reasoning. They interpret that as not cooperating. 

YOU may see it differently because you are obviously smitten by him.  You are like the husband who has to actually catch the wife in bed with the boyfriend.  Everyone else sees the cheating for years, but the hubby is last to know LOL.  It's okay.  You got it bad.  I have nevwer seen so many men come to a player's defense like I have for Brady.  I swear he has more men who have fallen for him than women.  LOL

No, they do not have Brady's text and email messages.  They only have the 2 men's messages.  There are more, however as previously stated Brady chose not to cooperate by giving them HIS text and email messages related to this topic because he felt they would be skeptical about any text and email messages he gave to them. 

"In the statement you quoted by Florio, he didn't mentioned any of the things you said he did."

I don't know what you mean by this statement.  Who is "he didn't mention the thing that I said he did"?

You posted that specifically to show how Florio basically thinks that the NFL gets what it wants all the time,

What?  You make assumptions, but they are not fact, so this is confusing because I have no idea what you mean.  Please stick what is actually written. 

"...as in when they want a piece of evidence or what somebody to provide that for them, they get it. I, logically, stated that this was false, and that Florio probably knows that its false."

Just because you claim something, that doesn't mean it's logical.  You have to provide the "logic" behind your thinking.  You just make emotional statements.  You don't include facts.  It's obvious this is a very emotional topic for you. 

Nope, there isn't.

 

But then again, there really isn't for the Patriots either, because that implies that you somehow blame the Patriots as an organization for Tom Brady deflating footballs. If the NFL is basing a large amount of its decision and punishment on the Wells Report, then don't expect much, if any, punishment for the organizatin as a whole, because the Wells report largely exonerates those parties. Specifically, parties like Belichick and Kraft (the two "big dogs" within the organization) come out of the report basically scott free.

 

Again, the only real organizational failure I see is Spygate. I don't even understand why people think this incident is an organizational failure. Botching the Ray Rice investigation and punishment... that's an organizational failure. What the Saints did... organizational failure.

 

If this is viewed as an organizational failure, then I'd have to view Haloti Ngata getting busted for Adderall as an organizational failure.

I do blame the Patriots for Brady's cheating. 

Obviously the organization didn't make clear to him the last time they got caught cheating that integrity matters.  They didn't make clear to him that the rules apply to Patriots players.  He doesn't understand that winning is meaningless if you don't play by the same rules as all of the other professionals.  He doesn't understand that if all of the other QBs don't get to inflate the footballs to their desired psi rates, then he knowingly has an advantage. 

That is unethical and the Patriots have not instilled in him in over 10 years that unenthical play is not accpetable to their organization.  They have failed to instill the values of fair play and professionalism into their longest playing team member.  A team captain - a leader on the team too.  Really, really poor reflection of the organization. 

That's all well and good, but I doubt not providing the NFL with private information (such as text messages and emails) is sufficient enough to classify him as "not cooperating". There were numerous other instances that the report focuses on where the investigator felt Brady didn't cooperate, which we already knew about.

 

And like most cases, Mike Florio is wrong (shocking there). Mike Florio knows there's a gigantic wall in between the player and the NFL that is called the NFL Players Association. We've seen dozens of cases where the NFL issues a punishment and it is either reduced or eliminated all together via the NFLPA. I believe, by definition, that's the exact opposite of the NFL "getting what it wants". Heck, if the NFL got what it wanted, Adrian Peterson would have never been reinstated. Yet, he is.

 

If I were Brady, and I were actually presented with the option of turning over personal items that I don't want others to see, or face punishment from not doing so, I'd choose the punishment. There's arguably far less risk involved in that.

"That's all well and good, but I doubt not providing the NFL with private information (such as text messages and emails) is sufficient enough to classify him as "not cooperating".

Yes, it is, there no certain measurement for the amount or "quanitity of information/data" that needs to be withheld to be construed as conduct detrimental to the league.  Just the simple fact that he will not cooperate with the investigation is enough.  They don't want players to be able to say,"Well Brady never turned over information," in future investigations.

What are the other instances where Brady did not coperate that we already knew about?

Mike Florio has not been wrong in MOST cases.  I think you are over overgeneralizing. 

I'm not sure what you are responding to, as I didn't write anything about what the punishment would be nor did Florio.  His point was how the NFL interprets not providing them with information during investigations.  Nothing has been written about the player's assoication. 

Like who?

 

Cleveland Browns cheated last season... how many of their players/coaches were suspended.

Atlanta Falcons cheated last season (and multiple seasons before that)... how many of their players/coaches were suspended.

 

There's the Saints, and there's basically nobody else in quite a few years. We've got two examples in the last twelve months of organizations who were found to have cheated.

 

One had their GM suspended for 4 games (I'm not even sure what this accomplishes quite frankly) and was fined. They didn't even suspend the GM during the crucial times of the year, such as draft and FA. If anybody suspended Ozzie Newsome for the entire month of September... would anybody here even care? Might be the single most irrelevant time of the year for his position in the organization.

 

The other was fined and forfeited a 5th round draft pick in the 2016 draft (not even the current year draft). And that was for repeated instances.

Are any of the organizations you mentioned repeat offenders?  Is there any historical pattern of cheating in any of the franshises listed?

I think that may impact the Commissioner's decision.  To me the Pats seem to not care about punishments.  Fines and drafts pics are meaningless to them.  Their response seems to be, "we'll just find another way to skirt the rules, because the league rules don't matter to us."  Brady was on the team the last time they were involved in a cheating scandal.  The last punishment didn't have any impact at all. 

LOL, uh no. You are way, way, way, way, way, way off.

 

1. Tom Brady's employer never once asked for his cellphone or his email. A third party, who has zero power or authority over Brady in any way shape or form, asked for it. He declined. He has every right on the planet to decline. Frankly, even if he has nothing to hide, he gains precisely ZERO by turning it over to them.

 

2. In his business, he also has something called a Union. So in the event his employer requests that he does something that he questions the legality of, he can speak with his Union, who are paid absurd amounts of money to protect his interests. So in reality, without due process (via Union appeals, lawsuits, etc.), he CAN'T be fired in that instance. He may ultimately get to that point, but after several, several months of litigation. AND, that's ignoring the fact that no legal system on the planet would rule in the NFL's favor in that instance.

 

This is the danger the public gets into when they start comparing their place of employment to the NFL. Two vastly different worlds.

 

I actually feel sorry for people who willfully just do whatever they're told all the time without even a vague understanding of what the purpose of it is. And the most amusing part to me... they didn't even need his phone. They already had his texts anyway.

The reason that Brady's agent didn't give the text and email messages that Wells wanted so that they could get as much information as possible for the investigation was, "...any information we would have provided, and the Wells investigative team did ask us to go through Tom's phone ON OUR OWN and provide them with information if we chose to go that route. But as you might surmise if we would have chosen to go that route, any information we would have given them, they probably would have had skepticism about anyway."

So rather than there be some skepticism, they chose to give nothing.  I guess that would eliminate any skepticisim. 

Not sharing that information is Brady's choice.  Of course what people don't understand is that when your employer is the NFL, that is a deterimental move.  Not cooperating with the investigation is considered conduct detrimental to the league and that could exacerbate any punishments for Brady. Also, as PFT's Mike Florio writes, while the NFL doesn't have subpoena power, it does have "absolute employment power over all players. Whatever it requests as part of its investigation, the NFL gets. If the NFL doesn't get it, a separate basis for discipline arises."

I will never part with my #20 jersey. It's a prize to me just like Ed Reed will always be a prize to Ravens Nation. Long live #20!

Even if Wilson wins an MVP, he's still not anywhere in the same league as Flacco for a post season performance.

The kid did a spectacular job given that this is his 2nd year in the nfl.  Outstanding composure, no big mistakes, some great passes and conversions on third down.  His first year in the league his team goes to the playoffs and the 2nd he wins a SB, the kids deserves a million compliments.  He will continue to grow and improve. 

I know Ben R. won in his 2nd year also, what other QBs have won in the 2nd year?  I think there are 7-8 others. 

Broncos forum completely turning on their team. Saying they're better off without Peyton haha. Everyone hates Fox too

Now that's what I call whining fans. 

Wish they had someone good for these half time shows.. maybe some classic rock/metal

The NFL does a pretty good job of mixing it up and trying to please their broad audience of viewers.  Since the Janet Jackson "incident" they tried to appeal to an older audience with Paul McCartney, the Rolling Stones, The Who, and Bruce Springsteen. 

Our defense wasn't very good last year and special teams have up two tds. Just taking away the st blunders we would've blown them out.

Still, it's  hard to believe how easy the Seahawks are making it look to defeat them.  They are outstanding.  Russell Wilson is amazing for a 2nd year QB... to take his team to the SB alone is incredible.

Watching Denver, it's hard to believe how tough it was for the Ravens to beat them in the playoffs and that they beat us this year. They  The Seahawks are making them look awful. In this first half Russell Wilson looked very poised for being in the NFL for 2 years. Incredible.