rmcjacket23

they have the same teams beating the patriots and they all have yet to do so except us.....please stop the with the crap.....those teams will not beat the pats....steelers possibly but they continue to fail us smh

Steelers need a massive influx in defensive talent, especially in the secondary, if they want a prayer of competing with NE.

Really doesn't matter how high powered their offense is at this point.

  20 hours ago, thegooddoc456 said:

If Harbaugh wasn't so clueless, why would the Ravens with a gifted passer like Flacco run a dink and dunk 2-yard per play offense?

you should ask the OC

Who doesn't have much to do with it, since its pretty clear on film that the 1st and most of the time the 2nd reads on the route tree's they are running are a lot further down field than just 2 yards.

If you REALLY wanted an answer, you'd likely have to ask the offensive line and the QB. They're the two biggest reasons why we ran that style of offense.

Does Pathetic Joe stink, because they've had so many OC's during his tenure, or have they had so many OC's during his tenure because PJ stinks? If it totally depends on who the OC is, if your QB is any good or not, then I think that question is fairly simple to answer.

Well 50% of the coordinators who have left did so to get PROMOTIONS.

Obviously that's a reflection of the QB as well...

On 4/14/2017 at 9:59 AM, January J said:

I was wondering if we still had him. I actually think he can be a really good receiver for us. I just got so tired of seeing Joe throw the ball in the endzone to the shortest receivers on the team. Throw some damn over the shoulder fades to Waller and Mathews who can actually go up and get it.

Problem is I haven't seen either of those guys really use their size to their advantage. I've seen Steve Smith play bigger and taller than Waller.

I think we as fans get caught up in size too much and think that everybody who is big knows how to use that attribute. 

9 hours ago, PurpleHorseman said:

So what are some thoughts if we could bring in Maclin for a round4 draft pick? He is 28 and a better more physical route runner than Wallace. He has some SS/Boldin toughness in traffic. He is elusive after the catch as well. He is fast and shifty for that early separation needed to move the chains. And has the big play speed and ball skills. Maclin gives Ravens better than average WR's at least. With a chance to have a great unit if One of Perriman/Moore take his game to starter caliber.

 

Would have to find a way to come up with nearly $10M in cap space to pay him.

Only way he becomes a Raven is if he is cut and signs a contract at half price or less of that.

Also ignores the fact that I seriously doubt the Chiefs are interested in trading him this year. Don't have many viable options on offense to replace him.

9 hours ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

Bingo! The premise of the OP is wrong. Everyone knows we have ZERO depth at WR. The real question is who will be our #1 WR, our #2 WR and our #3 WR. Obviously, we need another starting caliber WR and the draft will probably not fill that need. That being said, it is important that we draft a stud WR and obtain a veteran legitimate deep threat thru free agency. With all due respect to Wallace, there is nobody on our current roster who fills that role unless Perriman matures into the role.

Seriously doubt we do both. Fully expect us to address WR in the draft in the first three rounds.

Bringing in another veteran would likely only stunt the playing time of that player and/or Perriman, which achieves the opposite effect of what we are looking to do on offense.

Like it or not, the Ravens are highly invested in Perriman, and he's going to be given every opportunity to play a lot and play well. 

We're obviously not going to draft or sign another deep threat either, because most of our WRs on the roster already are deep threats... and that's the problem. We lack a chain mover.

Plus lets be honest... there's really no such thing as a "legitimate veteran deep threat" available in FA, and I don't see a player who's likely to get cut that would fit that mold either.

2 hours ago, ThatsMyJoeTerback said:

I think Ravens/Steelers should become a Christmas tradition.

Depends on how the calendar falls. Obviously wouldn't be playing them if Christmas is on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Friday.

Christmas Eve is a Sunday and Christmas is a Monday this year, so possible for this year.

In reference to Harbaugh talking about "players shouldn't wait until voluntary workouts to start their training." I'm thinking back on the season when Suggs came to training camp overweight, I could be wrong, but wasn't that the same season that he got injured early in the season, and missed the remainder of the season? If so, players training themselves before the voluntary workouts begin is vital, and Harbaugh makes a valid point. Learnt from Ray Lewis.

2015 he came to minicamp overweight. He was pretty much in game condition by training camp.

As long as they're in shape by training camp, nobody should really be that concerned.

  58 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

I have turned off NFL Network and ESPN for one reason...  and one reason only.  These female analysts that they have on there...  They consistently mispronounce words...  and the networks fail to correct it....  This crap with "Cam Newt-in".  The same with "Peyt-in Manning"....  They sound like 5 year-olds that cannot pronounce words.  It burns through my blood.  I cannot stand it.  Discredits them and the networks in my eyes.  Stop putting these little "babes" on there that are only eye candy....  Put somebody on there that can "Talk Football...  Please".

 

Now, on a side note...  I actually have to agree with Bayless.  He's correct.  And for once is giving Joe credit where credit is due.  I applaud that.

Now let's go out there, get us some good players in the draft and fill these holes.  I cannot wait for another shot at the brass ring again this year.

You're mad at the female analysts, not because they have arguably less credibility since they didn't play football in their lives, or any other argument that could be deemed reasonable, but because you don't like their accent? Anyone who doesn't speak like you sounds like a 5 year old, eh? You have the one and true voice, all hail.

Also ignores the fact that at least 90% of people on this planet pronounce it Peyt-in Manning.

I could count on one hand the number of people who have actually said PEY-TON Manning.

Slow news day, obviously.

25 minutes ago, Purple&Black#20 said:

Ben has Brown and Bell now!!! He has had his days of not having a OL and still produce. Ben has put up constant numbers once he became the starting quarterback. Ben is a hall of fame quarterback hands down. Can't say the same for Flacco. When they beat Arizona Bell or Brown wasn't there. When they lost to the Packers Brown was a rookie playing kick return. Level headed???? Guess you're not to keep making excuses from him. It's very dumb to say Flacco is better than Ben but right now today we can Ben is going into the hall of fame. 

Kind of hard to argue Ben is constant. Like most QBs, he struggled quite a bit and was very inconsistent his first 4-5 years in the league, and he definitely isn't putting up the same stats every year.

Can even look recently... 2016 his YPA, YPG and completion percentage were all significantly lower than in the previous few years.

Another fun fact people probably aren't aware of... on a per attempt basis, Ben turns the ball over more than Joe in his career.

29 minutes ago, Purple&Black#20 said:

Me saying Boldin didn't get the credit is not saying from us but the organization! He was only due 6 million and was traded. All him a Torrey really racked up pass interference calls! Go look at the film, and the passes to Jacoby in the Denver and superbowl game was like catching punts! He stop and waited! What are you watching!!!

1. Which allowed us to sign other key players, like Elvis Dumervil.

2. Was basically something he did for only one season. Go back to the stats. Torrey was not a PI machine for the overwhelming majority of his team here, and hasn't been since. Very, very lazy analysis by the fanbase on that one.

3. Of course they stopped and waited... you're talking 50+ yard throws in the air. There's only a handful of QBs in the league that can even throw it that far. The SB throw he basically throws it off one leg. 

This ain't Madden folks. Its real life.

7 hours ago, PurpleHorseman said:

Dude, Flacco isn't worth the farm. QBs that command multiple round1 picks can carry a terrible offense to top10 in the league. And young QBs thought to have the potential to do that eventually. Joe is coming off consecutive bad years and 3 outa 4 at 32 yrs old I believe? Joe wouldn't even bring as much as Garappolo because of what hottest trend is. And be realistic. Joe is not as good as Rivers.

Joe is cut and dry. He can make any throw with accuracy. IF he is protected and allowed to set and throw. Joe is slower at looking over his targets than the elite QBs. But can make similar throws if he can look set and throw comfortably. Evidenced by his most failed completions. Joe doesn't have confidence in his own skills to mske a hurried decision and sling it from an awkward position. So he takes the easy glorified handoff aka a checkdown throw.

Im not bashing Joe. All I'm saying is he can do what the elite QBs can do if our offensive line dominates. Joe doesn't even need elite weapons as long as he is allowed to feel comfortable looking over his weapons, set and throw from upright uncompromising position. Give Joe Flacco good No.2 WRs and a dominating line. And he is an elite QB that will put up 30 plus TDs and 5000 yards or close to it!! He can place a laser like a prime Manning and Bree's. As well as  Roethlisberger Ryan and Brady. However he is a little behind those gunslingers when he is feeling consistently hurried.

It is no surprise Joe played his best version quarterback when we picked up Mckinnie and Ray got his fellow hurricane working hard and playing well. And he held down the left tackle position. And allowed the dominant offensive line players to play at their best positions. The offensive line dominated and Joe played the best quarterback of his career. Bottom line when Joe is hurried and not comfortable he plays like a bottom 10 QB. When he is allowed to carefully look through his weapons. Then comfortably set and throw from comfortable upright position he is one of the best. And can sling it and make wow throws with the best QB's in the league. Joe throws as beautiful a football as there is in the league. He needs to feel comfortable moreso than his elite peers.

Which is reason so many were upset at the Brandon Williams contract while letting our offensive line players walk. Give us back Wagner and Osemele and our offensive line is the best there is in the league. It is better than Cowboys even.

If we get back KO and Wagner, we're still missing a Guard and a Center (because KO wouldn't be playing Guard if he were here, and Stanley wouldn't be on this team). Pretty much the same spot we are in now, if you think Lewis can be a decent RT.

I would also ask people to reference the 2014 season (and postseason most importantly), when Joe played quite well. In that postseason, we averaged 30 points a game on the road, in which our offensive line featured Hurst at LT, Yanda at RT, and Urschel at Guard. In fact, according to Pro Football Reference (and I don't remember if this is true or not), Urschel started at LEFT TACKLE against the Patriots, Hurst at RT, and Yanda moved back inside to Guard.

Stop and think about that for a minute. Our starting tackles in Foxboro in the playoffs were Urschel and Hurst. And we still scored 30.

The overall premise is accurate... Joe needs a good OLine. He does NOT, however, need a great OLine. For the most part, he's never had one. 

Would Browns trade their 1st&12th picks to Ravens for our 16th&Joe Flacco? Ravens could use Joe's cap space to sign Kapernick or even Cutler as stopgap till even next year's draft to get a QB or us picking one this year in rd 2.

If we traded Joe now, his cap hit would almost double the moment we traded him. So not only wouldn't we be able to sign a veteran QB, we'd have to cut quite a few more quality players just to get under the salary cap.

In fact, in looking at the cap of impact of our roster currently, its actually impossible based on what I see. We'd need to create somewhere between $15-20M in cap space after trading him just to be under the salary cap limit. I'm not even sure we could create that kind of space given the current contracts.

28 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

I give up. I say something and you respond to something else.

I give you examples of the best Franchise QBs and you say it's irrelevant and not enough examples. I tell you we need leverage and you say his agent would chuckle. Then say something like taking a QB with our first when I never said that. Yeah he's been chuckling all along by is not addressing QB position and yet you insist on only taking a third day QB and hoping he becomes a good backup.

so in your world Joe needs to be 39 and half crippled before the FO ever considers drafting a solid QB that could step up when called.

 

I'm not responsible for you using bad examples that don't relate in any way to the Ravens or Joe's situation.

In my world (and frankly the real world), Joe needs to be 35-36, on the back end of a large contract, and showing obvious signs of decline (reduced arm strength, weaker decision making, less mobility than he already has). That's when you start looking at QBs, and you probably go ahead and do it in the 1st round.

But stop with all this BS. No reasonable person thinks that drafting a 3rd or 4th round QB this year gives us any sort of leverage. If you actually do think that, you need to get acclimated with what the word "leverage" actually means, and do so quickly, because you don't get it right now. 

And even worse... stop beating around the bush. Just come out and say it. Just say that you don't think Joe should be our QB much longer, and you want us to draft somebody to take his place now. None of this "well lets just draft somebody in the middle rounds and MAYBE he will pan out and MAYBE he will give us leverage and MAYBE he will be as good as Brady". Just own it.

Its been a long, long time since a team used a very high draft pick on a player they had no intention of playing for several years, regardless of position. That includes QB. Rodgers is the last successful case of that. When teams start thinking of life after their current franchise QB, they target somebody early, and they move on within a year or two. Or they wait until they retire and use a first rounder then. That's what teams do. Its not rocket science. You'll see the Giants do it soon. You'll see the Steelers do it soon. You'll see the Chargers do it soon.

7 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

Each one has a different story. I know. But the same reasons that applied then apply now when it comes to Flacco.

hes not 27 years old, he's had a major injury and had a prity bad year statistically, he's the highest paid quarterback per year in NFL history.

and the Ravens continue to Pamper him instead of having some leverage when negotiating a new contract. I'm not saying get Flaccos replacement but look at the facts and you'll realize that taking a good QB that falls to the second or third is not that bad of an idea.

No, those reasons don't apply.

He would need to play as badly as Brees did (which he hasn't), have a broken neck threaten his career like Manning did (which he hasn't), be as brittle as Romo (which he isn't).

Or, if you pulled a Packers or Patriots and draft somebody thinking your guy is nearly done, you wait until they are at least 34-35, which was the case with those two guys. At 32, Joe isn't there yet. It means its a valid discussion to have when we get to 2019-2020, which is what we've all said all along.

Using a first round pick early on a QB gives you leverage in a contract negotiation of his size. Using a 3rd or 4th rounder just makes his agent chuckle and still get his way.

Leverage only works when its actually serious, not perceived.

13 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

No way Jernigan gets a 3rd round comp pick. Even if he has a Pro Bowl year and signs a BWill contract. The comp picks are handed out based on ALL of the Free Agents that signed in the off-season -
biggest contracts/best players first. Guys like Cousins, Stafford, Alshon, Freeman, Pryor, Kam, Edelman, Trumaine Johnson, etc, etc will all sign bigger contracts and thus get the 3rd & 4th Round comp picks. IF and a giant IF, Jernigan were to sign a BWill deal, it would probably only net the Eagles a lower 4th to 5th Round pick. Alex Mack signed a $9 million per year deal, went to the Super Bowl and only netted the Browns a 4th Round Comp pick. Also, the DL Free agent class next year is huge - Poe, Logan, Ansah, Kyle Williams, Ngata, Jaye, Hicks, Kawaan, Sheldon Richardson, Star, Sharrif, Crick, Tuitt, etc, etc. Jernigan might not even be in the Top 10 for DL.

Basically any deal less than $10 million per is a 4th Rounder. Anything less than 8 million per is a 5th Rounder.

And all this is moot because even if he has success with the Eagles (better fit in their system) it wouldn't matter because he would NOT put up those kind of numbers in Baltimore this year - which would determine what comp pick we would have gotten had we kept him.

Most of the guys you listed will sign contracts with their EXISTING teams, thus not counting against the comp pick formula. 

14 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

If the intention is to compete for a job then no. No rookie is gonna come in to push Flacco for his job.

If the intention is having a solid backup on a cheap rookie deal then yes. It's not that out of the ordinary to see teams invest high draft picks on QBs when you have a franchise QB.

Saints drafted a QB in the third two years ago and the Chargers took took Eli/Rivers when they had Breese. A.Rodgers was drafted in the first when Favre was the starter. Brady has a second round QB sitting on the bench. P.Manning had a third rounder in Brock oswiler backing him up for 3 years. Dak Prescott was drafted in the fourth with Romo the starter ad Cousins was drafted in the third when the franchise QB was RG3

I think that's a good enough list for you to recognize that it's not as simple as taking a day 3 guy and hoping he becomes a good backup.

 

 

So if we REALLY look at this, here's what REALLY happened:

1. The Chargers got Rivers because, at the time, Brees was terrible. Go look at his 02-03 numbers in SD and tell me what was impressive about them? Note also that this example is basically 13 years old.

2. Same application for Rodgers. Pretty much the last successful first round draft pick used on a QB that paid off when the incumbent was still good. We're talking about 15 years ago at this point.

3. Garoppolo is a 2nd round pick who has barely played and will leave NE next year. What about that has been a good pick for the Patriots? A 2nd round pick playing like 3 games TOTAL and fetching a comp pick 6 years later that is less than the value he was drafted at is considered a successful pick for that franchise? Really? See Ryan Mallett.

4. Osweiler was a 2nd rounder in a year where the Broncos traded for a guy who basically had a broken neck. Do I need to further explain why they needed to do that? I think its safe to say they'd like to have that pick back, also.

5. Prescott is a day 3 pick.

6. Cousins was a 4th rounder, so another day 3 pick. Given that he was taken the year that they traded the farm for a 1st rounder, I think its safe to say they never planned on him being a starter (they still don't even like him now).

So we've got some examples of day 3 picks who became starters (Prescott, Cousins), a couple 2nd rounders who didn't really do much for their teams (Osweiler and Garoppolo), and some first rounders from about 10-15 years ago in a completely different era in the league.

In short, no, its not a good enough list. If I were putting together a list, I'd list ALL of the QBs taken in the 3-7th rounds, and show you how many of them you've never heard of, are out of the league, or never reached more than backup status.

15 hours ago, HomeoftheBRAVENS said:

 

If your WR corps isnt very good then that also means it has no depth lol.I would like for us to draft a first round WR and let him battle Perriman for a starting job.Since we don't use many 3 WR sets,the guy who isnt starting and not getting much playing time can become the depth.

Actually that's not true at all. The biggest knock on our WR core for years has been that we have depth... we just don't have anybody who separates themselves from the pack in terms of quality talent. If all of your receivers on your roster are near the same caliber of talent, then by definition, you have depth, because it means that if one of your "starters" goes down, the replacement level player is nearly as productive.

The REAL issue with our WR core is exactly what the FO has told us it is... we have no possession receiver who can work the middle of the field and be effective on third downs or in the red zone. That's the type of receiver we need. The reason why a Wallace/Perriman combo isn't exactly thrilling is because they both run similar route trees and have similar skill sets, and neither is a guy you trust to go over the middle and make a tough, contested catch in a critical spot in the game.

That's the type of guy we're going to look to add. If its a first rounder, great. If its a veteran, cool (I wouldn't prefer this). If its a mid-rounder, good. 

Your third WR is typically going to play somewhere around 50-60% of the snaps. Aiken played 52% last year, Perriman 43%. Even Steve Smith only played around 64%, so the drop from him to Aiken wasn't nearly as big as people think.

If we're in that position, that's what I'd expect to happen. Wallace will lead the receivers in targets and playing time, and Perriman and a third receiver (not yet on the roster most likely) will be playing about 2/3 or so, split among them. I don't see anything we do, including a first round WR, changing that. I don't think you're going to see Wallace and another player both playing like 90% of snaps. Think you'll see a steady rotation of guys.

14 hours ago, Jonah DeVito said:

What the hell are you even saying. Your inability to comprehend his post is the real issue here. He is not saying to use his 1st round pick on a depth player. Just because we have two guys who are considered starters right now means we can't upgrade that position and make a would be starter a depth player? That's the best way to improve your depth in a position. The WR core is neither that great nor does it have great depth. The best way to improve that is to add a guy like MWill or Corey Davis and maybe add a vet after the draft. 

Well, actually, he is saying that, because, well, he actually said that...

"What are you guys/girls thoughts on our WR depth?Do you agree that its a must that we take a WR in the first round and if so who?"

My comprehension isn't the problem. The problem is that the OP THINKS he's talking about adding depth, and he's not. He's talking about adding a starting-caliber player. Those are not the same thing.

Jerrigan said he wasn't getting the snaps because of younger guys? Man he's only 24, I think Harbaugh just doesn't have enough patience with the young guys, they make one or two mistakes and he quickly sits them down, it can't help the confidence that's for sure.

He's a Dlineman in a base 3-4. He's going to get rotated in and out frequently. I can guarantee if you he was playing 80-90% of snaps, he wouldn't be generating any pressure in the 4th quarter. The reason half our Dline was so effective is because of how we rotate them.

He will probably be in the 60-70% snap count range in Philly.

This post has nothing to do with WR depth. It has to do with you thinking the WR core isn't very good.

If we need actual DEPTH at WR, that means that you're looking to add a role player or a bench player to your roster. That's what depth is. 

So if you think that depth is actually the issue, then no, it makes no sense to use a first round pick on a player who is depth. You use a first round pick on a player to play a lot, probably start, and be a contributor.

So make up your mind. Do we need depth, or do we need another starting-caliber player?

25 minutes ago, steelcityraven said:

yes but understand that we lost a starter and a future 3rd or 4th round draft pick (which would probably also be a starter) to move up 25 spots and get a starter? and you can say yes but we will have a better starter and there is no guarantee there and that is in essence assuming that we will can do more for this franchise by moving up in the third round then we can with a later 3rd round pick and another 3rd or 4th rounder in the future.

None of which is guaranteed, of course. That comp pick is a full two years away, and there's no guarantee we would even get one or a high one. That's pending what types of FAs we sign. If we signed nobody of significant price value, then yes, we would get that. If we go out and sign a Tony Jefferson type contract, then the risk of not getting a comp pick that high increases.

42 minutes ago, steelcityraven said:

Agreed that this is dependent upon what another team is willing to give up and you are right.... they could just wait a year and get Him...but for teams that are looking to bolster their DL now.... teams that want to win this year and think they have a chance this year.... they don't want to wait and compete with everyone else in FA where the price tag only goes up.

So... it benefits that Eagles to trade now... and sign that extension (like they did). They recognize the benefit in having this quality player this year.

We did not however and while I also agree that we would not get several high picks for him we got zero picks for him. (We just moved up in round 3).

Like I stated before.... I believe that we could have gotten the trade up and a 5th or 6th rounder.

It is what it is at this point.... I just felt like Timmy was worth more then we got for him.

Hope we make the most of that jump up?

Time is a factor though. As most people realize... those trade offers only get worse after the draft, not get better, because several of the teams looking to add such a player may have drafted one instead.

Simple risk/reward analysis. Do you hold out for a couple more weeks in the hopes of getting a better offer (like you said... maybe a 5th or 6th rounder in addition) and risk not getting a better offer and having that team pull the deal?

We should be drafting a QB every year. Flacco is a good QB, but we could definitely improve at the position. I'm not saying use a 1st-2nd day pick, but take some shots on guys. It seems ridiculous that we speak of BPA all the time yet would refuse to draft a QB that could compete with Flacco. This year Mahomes is the guy I would target.

Well, if you want Mahomes, you'll have to use a day 1 or day 2 pick to get him.

Most importantly, you're only going to be able to roster two QBs in a season, because you only get 53 roster spots and they are precious. So unless you want your rookie QB out there playing ST and trying to run down opponents, we're only carrying two.

We don't draft a QB to compete with Flacco for the same reasons that every other team in the league who has a franchise QB doesn't draft a QB to compete.

They use a day 3 pick on a guy they hope can become a decent backup.

Just not sure why the franchise is so in love with Benjamin Watson, he seems like a obvious cut to me, 4 mil would be a nice number to get back. He's a yr older coming off of a torn Achilles and we already have plenty of TE's already

Can easily keep him around through the offseason program or training camp and have him compete with the other TEs for roster spots.

Also possible that he may not be healthy enough yet to pass a physical, and thus we'd have to give him an injury settlement (same concept as why Kyle Arrington is still on the roster).

Basically about 7-8 months removed from achilles tear. Possible he can't pass a physical.