rmcjacket23

I don't get why people think Castillo is going anywhere. He was like the only guy Harbs confirmed was coming back and what role he would have...

Perhaps he's not, we don't really know for sure. The assumption is that since Kubiak is apparently being aloud to choose some guys he brings with him, and Dennison's experience is as an OL coach, it would seem logical to assume that Dennison would get that role.

Doesn't mean that Castillo is necessarily leaving, but possibly his role will be different.

Will be interesting to see how the rest of the coaching staff shakes out. Looks like Dennison will join, but no mention of Shanahan so far that I see.

It doesn't matter what Joe's "strengths" are - that's not the offensive philosophy of the RAVENS.  It's run the ball, control the clock, take your shots, keep the opposing team out of the endzone as much as possible, stay in the game and hope to have the ball in the last 2 minutes with either the lead or the possibility of taking the lead for the W.

 

It worked the first 5 years just not so much this past season...

Or maybe that's what we WERE, not what we are. The truth is... that's not what we have been the last two seasons. It was who we were in the first 3 seasons with Flacco and most of the 4th season, but since the AFC title game loss in NE, that's not who we've been.

We weren't a control the clock team in 2012, because our defense made sure that they wouldn't get off the field until a team got to the 20 yard line (granted they were sound in the red zone).

Perhaps we are ignorning the most important question... what does this do for Flacco? We know a Kubiak-led offense likes the stretch run and likes to do play action a lot, emphasizing TEs. That likely means Flacco under center more often, which historically, he hasn't been as effective in. I would say Kubiak's offenses have always been a bit more on the conservative side, so that might mean less deep throws down the field, which makes sense given that we likely may lose Jacoby. To me, our choice for OC and system should be based around the strengths of Flacco, and not so much about "fixing the running game". It doesn't mean our new OC can't do both, but I think fans are overlooking the impact the new OC will have on the scheme Flacco has used.

In defense of the fans, there's more to it then the "scheme didn't work".  Part of the fans' frustration is that he turned a very good running o line into a wet paper bag.  It may not have had anything to do with scheme, but rather his actual coaching.  The line never got better as the season progressed. In fact, they seemed to get worse.

 

Blame goes to the players as well; but clearly, Castillo sucked.  But now, if they have all of these other pieces in place, there will be continuity, which should result in better play on the field.

But the truth is... we don't really know anything. Clearly the FO and coaching staff feels that the players were the main issue (offensive line), because they went out of their way to emphasize that changes in personnel are likely. In my interpretation, you don't simply say that if you think there is a single weakness like most fans think (Gradkowski). To me, it means the FO is looking at getting 2 or potentially 3 new offensive lineman in there to compete for a job.

Is it possible its Castillo's fault and Harbaugh just refuses to acknowledge it? Possibly, but I consider that unlikely. The point remains... the overwhelming majority of fans on here spent the entire season bashing the zone blocking scheme and demanding we go back to a "power" running scheme. Essentially, at this point, the likelihood of that happening is about 0%, which means at a minium the scheme that we saw in 2013 will be extremely similar to the one we saw in 2014.

The biggest question will be... who gets credit or blame if we have the same issues in 2014? I assume some will give credit to the potential new coaching staff and credit that to "continuity", but perhaps its just been the on-field execution all along? Same thing applies if it falters again... can we really blame two different coaching staffs?

From the sound of Schefter's report, it looks like it is Kubiak who essentially wants to have Shanahan and Dennison with him. I suppose that could potentially be a deal breaker if Harbaugh doesn't feel like he's really picking his own guys. Plus, it would mean he would have to fire at least somebody (presumably Castillo).

I guess with Kubiak and/or Dennison, zone blocking is here to stay which means the Ravens will have some tough O-Line personnel decisions to make. They might also have to decide if the combination of Rice and Pierce are the best RB combo for that scheme.

Precisely, and I can't believe that fans are being so hypocritical about this. They want Castillo out because his scheme "didn't work", yet the guys that are mostly wanted as OC (Shanahan/Kubiak/Dennison) are big time advocates of a very similar, bordering on identical type scheme.

I mean if you really think about it... what does a guy like Dennison offer as OL coach that Castillo doesn't?

The question is... if Kubiak, Shanahan and Dennison are all coming to Baltimore (speculation), is there any possibility that Castillo stays? When I read reports earlier this morning that the Ravens were talking to Dennison, it was reported it was potentially for an OL coaching gig coupled with Shanahan as OC (they worked together previously). Somehow, though, I don't see all three of these guys coming. What role would Shanahan have? QB coach? I suppose it makes sense, given that Kubiak could be OC for only one season before getting HC offers again next season.

My concern is that if it's Shanahan and he has success he'll get poached from us and we'll be in the same boat again in a couple of seasons.

That would apply to anybody we hire...

Kirby is gonna go back to the steelers and tell tomlin everything harbs told him

Or he's going to the Vikings, which is where he is going.

I think that it's hesitancy because in most interview processes for hiring coaches usually the interviewer head coach will fall in love with one guy and hire them . Or at least that's how the story is told on some nfl network films . You could be right though maybe he's being really thorough and doing his due diligence . To me it just comes off as he hasn't interviewed anyone that gets him really excited cause he had to interview second timers . Also if he really wanted one of the guys he would of pounced on it more so a candidate like Kyle shannahan doesn't get hired elsewhere for whatever coaching postion .

But what if there is no candidate that they fall in love with? Does that mean they hire nobody? I generally agree that it seems like in most instances a team names a coordinator very quickly if they interview well and both agree they are a good fit.

I think the process is simply taking longer because perhaps there are reservations about both candidates, or perhaps they are just so even that Harbaugh can't decide. In either scenario, it doesn't appear that Harbaugh is "in love" with any candidate, but that doesn't mean that we should wait around to find the guy that we fall in love with either.

One more possible consideration... how likely is Hostler to be retained on the staff (as WRs coach) if he doesn't get the OC job? Would that make things a bit awkward among the coaching staff? Imagine if they hire Kyle and things don't go well... you've got Hostler sitting there saying to himself "I should have gotten this job".

Maybe Harbaugh values Hostler as a member of the coaching staff and is afraid he won't come back if he doesn't get the OC job. Again, just speculation, but perhaps something to consider.

because we aren't talent deficient . We may lack chemistry , comrrodory with the players and sure we have some weaknesses postion wise but we aren't "talent deficient " . We have two good pass rushers in Suggs and doom , a good nose tackle in haloti ngata , very good young corners in Webb and jimmy when healthy . We have a Super Bowl MVP QB and a 1,000 yard wr in Torrey smith . A perineal all pro in Marshall yanda . Sure we have some weak spots (as every team in the league does at some level ) but our problem was they weren't meshing well and they weren't playing how they normally do . Ray rice wasn't himself , joe threw picks that in prior seasons he wouldn't of , former DPOY Suggs disappeared late in the season , doom disappeared for some stretches . It seemed like the vast majority of the team underperformed to their abilities as ray rice is not the awful back he looked like this year and t sizzle is better than what he did and Flacco certainly plays better than that . It feels like something needs to be changed because on paper , at the very least we have a very good defense , did they play very good , no they didn't but on paper we have a very talented defense . We have a solid roster , not super great but solid . We certainly aren't "talent deficient " we are underperforming badly though and that sounds like a excuse for bad talent but in this case it's not because there are many good players that are proven good players that underperformed . When players are underperforming that badly , a change needs to be made .......

Any aspect of "talent deficiency" is subjective. It's entirely possible that the best days of guys like Suggs, Ngata and Rice are far behind them, which is why there is so much discussion about their roster status and salary cap numbers.

Overall, I don't they we are "talent deficient", but given our current salary cap situation, there's a lot of question marks regarding whether we can even keep some of the talent we have.

Suggs is in a contract year and is viewed as either an extension player or a salary cap casualty. Right now, it's 50/50 whether he's a Raven in 2014.

Ngata is in the exact same boat in 2015. Another year like 2013 in 2014, and he's staring at the same thing Suggs is this time next offseason.

Ray Rice's contract makes it almost prohibitive to release him until 2016, which guarantees him two more seasons in Baltimore. He's coming off the worst season of his career, and his age and workload is a concern. I'd say two years is the maximum time he has left with this team.

You mentioned some other key players, and there is a lot of uncertainty... with our current cap situation, how likely is it that either Jimmy or Torrey Smith gets an extension this offseason? If they don't, they will be UFA's this time next offseason, which means they could elect to go to the team that's willing to pay them the most. There's no guarantee they are Ravens beyond this season (although I'd say they are both likely).

Then you've got all the UFA question marks this offseason... Pitta, Monroe, and Daryl Smith are guys we clearly want to keep, but can we keep them at a price we can afford? We will likely be losing guys Oher, Art Jones, and Jacoby to FA. We've got to find replacements for them. All in all, I'd say we are losing 3 or 4 potential starters from last seasons team.

Bottom line for me... I think there is less talent on this team than fans think (particularly offensively), and more talent on this team than the media thinks. But there's a lot of question marks going into FA and the draft, and we will just have to wait to see how it plays out.

one day...you guys will actually look at the offensive rosters over the past 18 years and realize that the new person(s) we need from outside the organization are players and not coaches. Caldwell was not from inside the organization, he came from Indy. and you wanted to run him out of town. Doesnt matter where the OC is coming from as long as we're still talent deficient, why am i the only one that gets that?

I'm the first to say that I think fans perceptions that coaches are the problem are incredibly overblown. Nobody cares about the value of a coach when you are winning. Players get the praise during the good, coaches get the disdain during the bad... I guess thats the business.

I will throw out this thought though, but I'm not really sure how relevant it is...

At what point in the almost 20 year history of this franchise has this team had a quality offense? Stop and think about it. Hasn't offense almost always been the issue with this franchise? We're on our 3rd HC, have been through dozens and dozens of players, had probably close to a dozen QBs, and have arguably never really had a legit #1 WR in franchise history.

This isn't a Harbaugh or Flacco problem necessarily. I'm not suggesting its all Ozzie's fault either, but its just something to think about.

What makes you think you know who to interview better than anybody in the organization? I think even the last ballboy has more info than we, outside fans do...

 

bio

That near sideline ball boy was terrible. He couldn't catch at all.

Thus, my judgment is he should be fired from his likely unpaid job.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You say you see no scenario in which Harbaugh is fired, that he's as safe as Belichick. Then you state that Bisciotti remarks that he only gives One chance to fail on his watch, then took them all to the wood shed. Which way is it? Are you saying he's safe, or had his chance to fail and has been behind the wood shed?

Two separate posts from two different people, he just didn't break them into two pieces...

I posted... I see no scenario where Harbaugh is fired prior to the 2016 season, regardless of how the next two seasons go. What you have the credentials that he does, you don't get fired that quickly. All of this talk about him coaching for his job this season is just fan myths created from nothing. He's as safe as Belichick is at this point

Somebody else responded...Mr. Bisciotti remarked in his state of the ravens address. Only one chance to fail on his watch. Then he took the whole lot to the wood-shed or Jupiter Fla. for a good ole fashion tail whooping. So, no one is safe.

By the way, I responded to the latest post, pointing out that the entire FO staff described goes to FL every year to meet with Bischotti, regardless of whether they win the SB or go 4-12.

I've seen or heard nothing to suggest Harbaugh's job is even remotely in jeopardy.

Looks like another Har Boo Boo is about to happen. We never even talked to Norv Turner. Mistake! We never even talked to Kubiak. Maybe a mistake. Kyle Shanahan is the best candidate left standing at this point. But who appears to be the front runner for the job? Hostler! Another mistake! When are you going to stop it, Harbaugh? Answer, probably never.

How do you know Turner or Kubiak wanted to talk to us?

They need to get this young offense line working a lot better. Next year's team strength scheduled is about the same as last year but 2015 Ravens play NFC West and AFC West. Very, very, tough divisions and if Raven go into that year with the line as bad as it was this year it will be ugly then the firing topic will spread.

We know nothing about the 2015 or even 2014 SOS. It's entirely possible that the AFC and NFC West divisions will be below average at that time. Divisions go from strong to bad in one offseason often.

I see no scenario where Harbaugh is fired prior to the 2016 season, regardless of how the next two seasons go. What you have the credentials that he does, you don't get fired that quickly. All of this talk about him coaching for his job this season is just fan myths created from nothing. He's as safe as Belichick is at this point Mr. Bisciotti remarked in his state of the ravens address. Only one chance to fail on his watch. Then he took the whole lot to the wood-shed or Jupiter Fla. for a good ole fashion tail whooping. So, no one is safe.

The exact same thing happened after the last six seasons where Harbaugh was head coach. If they go 14-2, they go to Jupiter. If they go 2-14, they go to Jupiter. It's called planning.

Again, I've heard or seen nothing to suggest Harbaugh is even in the ballpark to get fired.

Why doesn't anyone get this! Harbaugh doesn't want an O.C. with head coaching experience. If he fails again next year. He won't want someone that can replace him when the hammer comes down. Remember, he has been warned...Possibly, halfway through the season

I see no scenario where Harbaugh is fired prior to the 2016 season, regardless of how the next two seasons go.

What you have the credentials that he does, you don't get fired that quickly. All of this talk about him coaching for his job this season is just fan myths created from nothing. He's as safe as Belichick is at this point.

The NFL is converging on 3 types of teams: 1. Those with Elite QBs - Four: New England, Denver, Green Bay, NO 2. Those teams with bargain QBs that are a net positive for their team - Philli, SF, Seattle, Indianapolis, Cinncinnati and KC (though KC is on the fence with Smiths salary) 3. Teams with overpaid QBs or ineffective bargain QBs Regardless of who the new OC is, he is going to have to live with the constraints imposed from having an overpaid QB. Baltimore has joined the list of teams with an overpaid QB along with Dallas, NY Giants, Detroit, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, and Chicago. I believe these teams will all hang around the .500 mark until they have a chance to get back into the bargain QB market where it will be hit or miss through the draft. I am not saying all the overpaid QBs are not good or even at times great, I am only saying they are overpaid and are not Elite. Elite QBs can win despite the diminished talent as a result of their big contract. They make players around them better. They are both players and coaches on the field. We don't have one of them.

It doesn't really work that way though. Big Ben and Eli won SBs while on monster contracts, and they weren't paid that much based on what they did in the regular season. It's the reason why in the last decade, the number of SBs won by Peyton, Brady, Rodgers and Brees, is identical to the number of SBs won by Big Ben, Eli and Flacco.

While I agree that we are in an era where teams that can get quality QBs in the draft on the cheap should be looking to push for a ring in the first five years, keep in mind that it is temporary by definition. Guys like Luck, Wilson, and Kaepernick are only 2 years away from earning big time contracts, and some of them might be much more than what Flacco got, so at that point, they will be facing the same situations. Similarly, in 2-3 years, guys like Peyton and Brady very well may not be in this league anymore.

I don't have any idea why you lump in Cincy, Philly and KC into this argument, because they simply don't apply. Philly and KC have been winning in this league for a grand total of 1 season (and neither won a playoff game), and Cincy is being held back by the limitations of its QB, who will probably get a healthy payraise for accomplishing far less than guys like Flacco have.

The bottom line... the goal of every single team in this league is to get a QB that is good enough in the postseason to warrant a big contract. Seattle and SF want that as well, and their time will come.

Jim Hostler will be the next OC coach. If the past tells you anything about Harbs, this is a no brainer. Ravens record for next yr. 5-11, Harbs will be on the hot seat, if not fired.

Harbaugh can go 3-13 next season and won't lose his job. His previous success, including a SB title, guarantees him at least 3 straight mediocre or losing seasons before they even consider firing him.

I think there's a lot of people pretending that Biscotti has put Harbaugh "on alert", but the truth is, there is nothing to suggest that has happened. If we know anything about this franchises leadership, it's that they extremely rarely make a bold, rash decision, such as firing a coach.

Regardless of what the Ravens record is next season, I think 2016 is the earliest the Ravens fire Harbaugh, and that's assuming we are bad that long, which I don't think anybody realistically expects.