rmcjacket23

It's hilarious to me that you think he was put on the block for "every single team". Harbaugh and the FO traded him to brother Harbaugh as a favor and also to protect themselves from payback. If he was cut(like they were threatening) then he would likely have gone somewhere in spite like New england or Pittsburgh. It's very stupid to think that rivals of the Ravens had any real chance to trade for him.

The rivals? Of course not, because nobody trades people to their own division.

Can you explain then why the Vikings were able to offer a 7th rounder for him though? I thought he was only allowed to be traded to "little brother"?

But, as always, I'll go ahead and put the challenge out there... please provide a source for this claim that Harbaugh would only trade Boldin to his brother. I suspect this is one of those cute little fan generated conspiracy theories, but I'll await the source of your information.

Here's my source...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/11/vikings-made-a-play-for-anquan-boldin-too/

What are you even talking about who are these 2 people you speak of? Steve Smith and who? Another rookie WR? You really think we would draft a WR high if Steve Smith is signed? No. It would be Torrey and Steve on the outsides with Marlon in the slot. Period.

 

You keep talking about Mellette like he has proven something and deserves to be handed a spot on the roster. And you keep putting Mellette and Browns name together like Marlon didn't have a 600 yard and 7 TD rookie year. You are acting like he has to prove he can play. We already know he can and he will only get better. He dropped 2 or 3 potential TD's last year so he could have had around 10. And he also missed a few games with the hamstring injury. Not to mention our offense completely sucked and he and Torrey were the lone bright spots at skill positions.

1. There is no doubt in my mind that this team is drafting a pass catcher in the first three rounds of this draft, regardless of whether they add a Steve Smith or not. Adding a veteran is putting a band aid on a broken bone, because he's essentially a short-term player. If Steve Smith gets signed, its going to be for the short-term. Beyond Torrey (who isn't even under contract next season currently) and Pitta, there are gigantic question marks with every single pass catcher on this roster currently, including Brown (who I will now address).

2. When you say "he will only get better"... that is defined by one word... guess. You are guessing he will get better. The list of players just like him who ended up with 3 or 4 total years in the NFL is a mile long. Could he get better? Absolutely. Will he? Time will tell. Me personally... I think its entirely possible we've seen the best of him. I know its fun for fans to project that somebody who had 600 yards in year 1 is going to have 1200 yards by year 4, but theres really no evidence to suggest that. Just like thinking since he scored 7 TDs in year 1 that he will be scoring 10+ next season? If they bring in Steve Smith and another rookie (which is likely), how often do you even think Brown is going to be on the field? In a 2 WR, 2 TE set, which is what Kubiak runs most often, Torrey and Smith are on the field, and Brown is on the sideline.

The only chance I even remotely see of Brown being an integral part of this offsense next season is via injury. I see him as a role player in the redzone, just like I see Jacoby (who is also competing with Brown for snaps on offense) as a role player on offense.

The fact that the FO is even addressing this idea both in FA and in the draft, to me, is indicative of their views of the talent of the younger guys in this receiving core.

So, in summary, NO, Marlon hasn't "proved he can play". I'm never going to claim anybody has "proved they can play" based on one season with the team. To me, Marlon is a JAG player... "just another guy".

not aware of what we gave for him but i am extremely aware of the performance he gave in baltimore, i know i may be off the mark on what he was worth but based on the performance he gave in baltimore to me was at-least a 5 and 6 or a 4th alone. look at the quality of receiver he is, he doesnt catch every single ball that comes his way but i rank him up there with likes of megatron when it comes to contested catches in traffic and balls thrown off the mark, big, physical Wr. whom will make the play in the most clutch situations,it's hard to find good wide outs like that. That you could keep around. granted im not in the nfl as player or front office and know nothing about the economics of the business but as a fan i would have rather seen the ravens keep him for 1-2 yrs longer then trade for even a 3rd rounder had it been offered

Except you wouldn't be able to trade him after two more years, because he's about 2-3 years from being out of the league completely.

Nobody offered a 4th or a 5th round pick for him, therefore its just silly to pretend like he's worth that price. Its like people pretending like they know how much a player should get on a contract. No person is actually overpaid, because the "market value" of a player is, by definition, the amount that somebody is willing to pay for them.

If Boldin was placed on the trade market to every single team (which he was) and nobody offered more than a 6th round pick, then he's worth a 6th round pick.

While I agree the Ravens are looking to bring in both a veteran WR and draft one fairly high, I do not agree that either move is an indictment of Marlon and Aaron.  On the contrary, I believe it's just smart football.  Much like cover corners and pass rushers, you can never have enough good receivers.  Iron sharpens iron, as Harbs would say.  Thus the more competition the better, and let the best players play.  We recognize Mellette was a 7th rounder and Brown wasn't even drafted, so adding higher quality talent to the mix certainly is appropriate, but at the same time does not rule out the chances of one or both of those young men developing into solid players too.

Yes, but keep in mind... the mantra from their supporters on this team is that they should basically be handed a job, just like they couldn't understand why Tommy Streeter wasn't given a starting job two years ago.

Competition brings out the best in everybody... with one caveat. The loser of the competition doesn't get to play on Sunday's, which is the goal of the whole thing. There is no minor league baseball system in the NFL. If Mellette gets beat out by a rookie and/or a veteran for a spot on this roster, he doesn't play. He practices on the practice squad, and he competes at a high level during training camp.

Mellette and Brown could turn out to be very good players... but if they can't beat out the person in front of them, we will never have any idea of whether they are very good players or not, because they won't be playing.

You bring in somebody like Steve Smith and then use a first or second round pick on a WR, they are essentially handed gigs on this team, while guys like Brown and Mellette aren't. There's a big difference there.

They probably think about Marlon Brown as "Jesus, we signed this guy as an undrafted free agent and he score 7 TDs and had 600 yards on one of the worst offenses in the NFL. We love him".

They might also be thinking... "jesus, we feel so great about his skills that we are bringing in at least two people to compete for the exact role that he had last season".

And by the way... for all the people that think this team is pretty good at WR currently... the FO doesn't seem to agree with you. I expect the Ravens to add two pass catchers this offseason, one in FA and one in the draft. To me... thats a pretty good indication of what the franchise thinks about guys like Marlon Brown and Aaron Mellette.

no...if you get Steve Smith this year, youre just saying that you dont want to go 8-8 until you finally find good new talent to stick around long term. I dont understand why bridging the gap between the present and the future is such a foreign concept for the majority of this fan base.

Agreed. I don't think this concept is difficult to grasp at all. You bring in Steve Smith, and you make him compete with a likely top 3 round draft pick for playing time.

The reality is... short of drafting somebody like Sammy Watkins or maybe a Mike Evans (who both seem unlikely), almost any WR we bring in is going to need time to adapt to the speed of the NFL, and in general, not many WRs walk onto an NFL team and dominate.

Your points you think your making make no sense. If thats what he averaged show me a WR on there them that made more plays for them the whole season. He was 1 of only 2 WR  in the superbowl who had a TD catch for them (the other was harvin but he was gone the whole season). also Pats let welker walk even tho he was their #1 Jets just let Santonio walk their #1 Panthers just let theres walk with steve smith Steelers let theres walk in wallace we let ours walk in boldin so because he wasent resigned means nothing and it doesnt matter what he signed for boldin didnt sign for much even tho he was our #1 so what does that mean that tate only signed for 6mil a year.He was still their best WR #1 by production alone...

So your basis for a #1 receiver then has how many yards, TDs, etc. he gets? Interesting.

Are you aware of what the word "subjective" means?

golden tate. Boldin...

You mean the same #1 WR Tate that averaged 20 yards per game during a SB playoff run? That #1 WR? The one that they could have easily retained if they thought he was worth it? The one that was paid $6m a season to be a #2 WR in FA?

Welcome to the definition of subjectivity my friend.

ummm ok…. whatever that means...

It means every single person has a different OPINION of what a #1 WR is. Some think its the guy that puts up the most stats, and some thing its the guy that teams target when they need a conversion.

In general, I'd like to think that if a team's fans have to argue about who their #1 WR is, then they probably don't have one. I think the Ravens would fall into that mode, and have for years.

yea ur argument just fell apart on it's self simply because everyone knows Q was the number1 on the ravens when we won the superbowl, however the trade value did not show that he was ( com'on ozzie 6round draft choice, pls easily a 3-4) but every good fan knew it and so do u

Just out of curiousity... what is your basis for thinking Boldin is worth a 3rd or 4th rounder? Are you aware of what we traded to get him 4 years ago? Why would his value of have gone up since then?

Also, since you are certain that he could have fetched that price, can you please provide me the name of the team that offered that price? I'd be very interested to know this, since nobody else seems to know. If nobody offered that price... wouldn't that tell you something? I mean I know its cool for fans to pretend like they have a clue what a players value is, but rarely are they ever even in the ballpark.

I'll give you a hint... the Vikings were the first one to come calling. The best receiver on their roster at the time was Jerome Simpson. They offered a 7th rounder.

Sometimes facts just get in the way of a good fantasy...

Why isn't Bernard Pollard still there who was more productive than both Idhedigbo and Elam. Hell Ed Reed even made more plays then they did when he went to the Jets. Between Smith & Boldin, who had the more productive season? 2 million brought in to bums last year Spears and Huff. 

1. I don't know... why isn't Pollard in KC anymore? Or Houston (where he had over 100 tackles in back to back seasons without playing every game)? Fool me once... shame on us. Fool me four times... POLLARD IS THE PROBLEM.

2. Ed Reed made so many plays for the Jets that he got benched. That happens to all good players right?

3. Boldin was gone because the FO didn't value him at $6m and he's in the twilight of his career. I know its cute and all for fans to pretend like Boldin would have put up 1,100 yards for the Ravens last year, but its naive.

Bitterness isn't good for the fan card bro. The "Harbaugh doesn't like anybody who challenges him" guy is the same guy who thinks 9/11 was a government coverup. They have nothing better to do, so why not start wielding conspiracy theories that have no bearing whatsoever.

Its a fan created myth, nothing more.

I don't care if his stats declined after being sent to the jets.I don't care if he had a serious injury 2 years ago.I don't care if he is an ex steeler.I don't care if I get negged for saying this.We need to sign Santonio Holmes!We need to sign him or at the very least give him an interview and a physical.He defines the words "clutch" and "playmaker".

But he's just not a very good football player anymore. It would be hard for anybody to even identify a valuable skill set he brings to a team currently.

Imho, D. Smith and Rolando McClain together would be ideal. Gives us 1yr to get McClain in the feel of the Ravens way. I say give D. Smith a 1yr deal while getting the bargain from Rolando is the answer. #ijs #imho

I seriously doubt D. Smith will accept another one year contract. He can likely get multi-year from several teams.

I am far from saying that Jacoby is going to be a starter again I agree that the Ravens will add a receiver. I am slowly kind of liking the Steve Smith idea depending on how much money he asks for. I also have been preaching for Daniels to join the Ravens. But the reason Jacoby didn't do too well last season was because of 1. injuries and 2. the offensive line like every other receiver.. I think the play action will serve him and the other Raven receivers very well. I also kind of hope the Ravens trade back a little bit and try to get Brandin Cooks and another pick later in the draft to also add to the receiving core. Since Tandon Doss left and I believe Deonte Thompson will be cut that the Ravens then in turn will add 2 receivers. 

And thats the point... why do fans keep referencing his accomplishments as a receiver, which are minimal to begin with, when his offensive role on this team even at this very moment appears to be very, very, very minimal? Again, if we add nobody at WR the rest of the offseason, its difficult to see even an average-sized role for Jacoby in this offense.

Its not like defenses don't know what Jacoby does. He's not going to run all the routes on the route tree, and he's going to be a player that attacks the safeties deep down field. Of course, we already have another player who does that also, so as we saw last season, going deep all the time doesn't really work well when the defense doesn't respect what you do anywhere else on the field.

Its hard for me to envision a scenario where Jacoby has an increased role on offense from what he had in 2013, and the Ravens being a contending team.

You are just repeating what everyone on ESPN says... Fact is how many games has Jacoby came up with big plays and returns for us to win? Remember the Vikings game? He made one of the game winning touchdowns... Fact is Jacoby is more than just a returner. He is a returner first but also pretty good in the receiving. I wouldn't call him bad at it. He gives Flacco good field position to work with and a deep threat alongside Torrey Smith. Unfortunately the Ravens were not able to throw the deep ball last season because of the offensive line or you would've saw him more. I think Jacoby will be wide open on a bunch of play action passes this next season as long as the Ravens get the running game to start going. And this contract is really only a 2 year contract then all the guaranteed money is gone... I thought it wasn't a bad deal at all considering other teams were offering more. 

Its not a bad deal in terms of the financial committment, because they can get out of it easily if it doesn't pan out.

But lets not kid ourselves... the offense will be more effective if Jacoby is on the field less. We know this for several reasons...

1. We intend to run the ball more, and run the ball more effectively. If Joe is throwing it less, it means Jacoby is on the field less. The most prevalent times that Jacoby was on the field were on 3rd and long (which occurs due to penalties and a lack of a running game) and in the hurry up offense.

2. I think every single person on these boards expects the Ravens to add at least one more viable receiver this offseason, whether thats through FA or the draft, and I personally think it will be two.

3. As such, whoever we add is very, very likely to be ahead of Jacoby on the depth chart, for obvious reasons.

Therefore, Jacoby is at best the #4 WR, and the #5 option in the passing game, behind Smith, Pitta, Brown and at least one person that we add this offseason. So assuming that we are able to run the ball better and that Kubiak doesn't design a 5 wide, go-route based passing attack, can somebody tell me precisely when they expect Jacoby to be on the field on offense? I mean I'd consider 10 snaps a game to be optimistic based on what I see.

If he's on the field, in my opinion, the offense isn't doing what its supposed to be doing. We are either playing from behind, or we are in 3rd and long often, neither of which is a good thing.

If nothing else... I'd be slightly worried if I were a big supporter of guys like Brown and Mellette, because if they are competing for #2 or #3 WR roles, and they struggle, they will have an extremely short leash.

If we add even one pass catcher, I don't see how Mellette is even active on gamedays without injuries. And remember, some of you want to add Owen Daniels as another TE option too. Depth is always good, but I think some of you overvalue what certain players on this team bring to the offense.

@rmcjackets..i said from day 1, Oz always slow plays the FA signing period, he lets teams with cap space go through their money, and sees who is left, and makes smart signing, and i am surprised he made these many moves this early, in the past itr was the 2nd week of the FA period is when he would make his genius moves...

But he really hasn't made any moves. He re-signed a LT that we already had, and re-signed a ST player that we already had. It just took him longer to do both than he probably wanted.

We typically wait longer in FA to bring in guys who weren't ours to begin with.

I'm sorry but jacoby isn't part of the answer for anything.

He's a big part of what we do on ST, of which our HC values greatly.

Probably more than I do, but that doesn't matter. Does he change anything about what we do offensively? Likely not, but he does bring benefits that are valuable to Harbaugh.

@rmcjacket23...it's about fixing the obvious flaws on the O-Line, Monroe brings us 1 piece, Yanda another, the unknowns are LG,C, and RT, So to me that is a lot of holes to fill....KO we won't know how well he will play after his injury, we don't know who our RT will be, and Gino is a no-go at center...

And the FO sees the same thing you do, except they realize that this is day 2 of FA, and that we have until August to try to solve these problems.

It doesn't mean that we do nothing in the meantime. Just because it isn't the first thing we addressed doesn't mean we aren't going to address it or find it unimportant.

seems more people are into name players than the results...Monroe, solid yes, but still was part of a O-Line that gave up 48 sacks, still part of a O-Line that couldn't screen block, or open up holes for our run game...Suggs, a stud, so nuff said...Pitta hurt most of the year...bottom line, it take 11 on the field on Offense, defense, and ST to play as 1....On paper we looked good, on the field we looked like [profanity deleted]...fact...so neg away haters...ha ha ha...

So you agree then that all five offensive lineman need to go correct? I mean you can't argue that we should let Monroe walk and then justify keeping Yanda or Osemele, because they were part of the same problem.

And how can you justify keeping the QB who threw a ton of INTs? Or the RBs who fell down at the first sight of contact? Or the receivers who routinely couldn't get open against man coverage?

You can blame as much or as little of this on the offensive line as you want, but the fact remains that virtually nobody on that offense last season played to the level they are capable of. But under your logic, they should all be gone.

Good luck replacing five offensive lineman in a single season. I'd call it a miracle of you could do it in two seasons.

@rmcjacket23, respect but I simply don't believe that. There's so much demand for the cap space available. There's no way the FO blows that much cap on a player to showcase him then after a year put him out to pasture. There's more to his role in the new O scheme, surely.

Not buying it. First off, Jacoby is only getting $4.5m guaranteed, of which a large chunk of that is surely guaranteed for this season. Therefore, if Jacoby doesn't have good return yardage and isn't scoring TDs on ST, what value does he have any longer?

I know people like to pretend like Kubiak has something in store for him because they've worked together, but have any of you actually seen how he was used in Kubiak's offense? It wasn't much, because the types of routes that Kubiak likes his receivers to run aren't the kind of routes that Jacoby is good at running.

Jacoby's absolutely maximum value in an offense is as a field stretching deep threat, of which we already have a similar type player, so that's not going to fool defenses very often. Jacoby is much more effective in a more vertical offense, such as the one Caldwell ran.

If I'm an objective fan, I'd expect to see less of Jacoby on offense this year.

in a 3WR 1TE set, Smith, Brown, Jones, Pitta... sounds good to me

Doesn't sound very good to me... its essentially the same WR core that couldn't get open on third down that we had for half of last season.

All these comments. Not one mention of how JJ and Kubiak have worked together. To state the obvious, it's what's ahead that determines value. (Take, for instance, Charlie Casserly's enthusiasm for Monroe inside Kubiak's usual scheme.)

Sure, but its not like JJ had very much success in a Kubiak led system. JJ is coming back to this team as a ST player and a very rare WR. If we bring in even just one WR, via the draft or FA, Jacoby becomes like the 5th option in the passing game, which is a position that figures to see very, very little playing time on the offense.

Don't get me wrong - I love having JJ back. Just think back to a couple years ago when our return game was junk.

 

My point was that his signing doesn't preclude us going after a guy like Steve Smith. Jones is a best in class return guy and excellent stretch the field guy as a WR, but Smith would be that guy we missed last year when we let go of Boldin. 

 

I really think we need to draft that next hard nosed, across the middle bruising receiver with good hands (if such a player is available), but Smith provides a good bridge to that draft pick. Our organization likes to ease guys in if possible, and Smith would allow us to do that.

 

Of course, that's all contingent on being able to get him at the right price, but I'm very hopeful that we find a way to get him. He's a guy who we won't have to teach how to play like a Raven ... he has his whole career. 

Agreed. To me, all this signing means is he have an expensive kick returner who needs to earn his money, otherwise, he's essentially one a one year deal.

This signing changes absolutely nothing about our need for at least one more quality pass catcher on this team. In an ideal world, we would see a whole lot less of Jacoby on offense in 2014.

Bryd to new Orleans is not a done deal they have no money to sign him plus there trying to resign Jimmy graham not a chance.

1. Re-signing Graham would free up cap space, not cost them it.

2. Byrd is interesting, because while a lot of the safeties are flying off the market, their prices are significantly lower than expected. Byrd was said to be seeking $10m per year, but frankly, its looking like maybe $7-8m per season may be a much more realistic option. He's certainly not getting top dollar from teams like New Orleans.

I didn't consider Byrd a realistic option, but if a week or two goes by and the market price comes down, the Ravens could conceivably be an option.