rmcjacket23

  35 minutes ago, billiejean said:

There has been a total of zero starting QBs in recent memory who have decided to take less money than the amount that was agreed upon at the time when they signed their contracts. QBs have shuffled their money around to give teams more cap room but they are still getting the amount of money that was offered to them in their contract. And really all that does is kick the can down the road. Joe is not going to going to take a paycut. It's really an unprecedented move.

What a load of hogwash.

First, restructuring does not necessarily mean a player gets paid less. Converting base salary into bonus money pays the player the exact amount as before, just now some of that money is guaranteed. It's always risky for a team, but it's a common tool to lower a player's cap hit.

Secondly, plenty of QBs have done it. Brady and Big Ben have both done it at least 2 times in the past 5 years if I remember correctly.

You actually just proved his point. Players move the money around, but they don't eliminate it completely. That's the point.

His statement was that no QB has agreed to take a straight paycut, meaning no bonus conversion, etc.

While I wouldn't say nobody has done it, I don't recall any big name, franchise QB doing it.

Restructuring a salary into a bonus to create short term cap space is just like putting something on your credit card. It doesn't go away... you just pay it later.

This is all moot on Joe, because only $6M this season would be subject to this anyway, so converting a portion or all of that into a bonus wouldn't even yield that much cap space.

In short, its not happening.

  56 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  1 hour ago, Bat-mite said:

I don't understand Pitta's restructure. Guy comes off a major injury where he sat out most of two seasons and collected injured pay, then comes back and has the best year of his career and leads all TEs in receptions, and gets asked to take less money?

I am happy about it in that it frees up cap room so we can get some talent at WR and OL, but I really don't get it.

I could argue both sides.

1. Him having the best year of his career isn't saying much, because his career numbers were never great.

2. He had a ton of catches but was pretty bad in terms of yardage. That's pretty inefficient.

3. At $5.5M, he would be paid like a top TE in the league, which he really isn't. Also takes into account the gigantic health risk associated.

Not only that... he got paid while injured and we didnt waiver on that.

Plus, he probably realizes that he wouldnt stand to make what he'll probably make here over the next 2 years in the open market (especially now that everyones gobbled up TEs, and the draft is historically good at the position).

Agreeing to the pay cut all but guarantees he'll be here for the next 2 years at a pretty good salary, on the team he wants to be with, where his family is comfortable, with a QB who he is a security blanket for which prob helps his future earning potential.

I wouldn't say he's guaranteed a roster spot in 2018. The difference between this year and last years paycut is that he agreed to a cut for more than just that season.

As it stands now, he would create $3M in cap savings with a cut after this season, with only $2.2M in dead money. Anytime there's decent cap savings AND the cap savings is more than the dead money, you're almost always on the roster bubble.

A similar season to last season likely means he stays. Any injuries or decrease in production and he's a prime cut candidate. I think all this agreement does is guarantee him a roster spot for 2017, but definitely not in the future.

It appears Sidney Jones will play this season.

Still doubt it. At best, I think he ends up on a PUP list for whoever drafts him, meaning he misses half the season.

Basically a redshirt year for him. Rookie corner coming off a major injury with like 6 months to recover... not worth the risk.

Joe Flacco listens to Pitta on just about everything including his personal grooming it seems. So, Joe take a cue from Pitta and help the team out man! Take a pay cut so we can get you more help. It's about time you helped the team out in a meaningful way.

He's not taking a paycut from the $6M base salary he's due this year, which is the only part that he can actually take a paycut from.

  1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, actually, if Aiken isn't efficient, then Boldin can't be either, since Boldin's YPC was significantly less than Aiken's.

Obviously the Ravens won't be signing Boldin. There's only one person who hasn't come to grips with this, and it ain't anybody in the FO of the Ravens...

Yeah because tds per reception wouldn't be used to discuss efficiency. Btw that's 1 td per 8 receptions by boldin last yr

It would be if it were a sustainable number, but you already know that it isn't.

That's an indication of a redzone specialist, not an efficient receiver.

I don't understand Pitta's restructure. Guy comes off a major injury where he sat out most of two seasons and collected injured pay, then comes back and has the best year of his career and leads all TEs in receptions, and gets asked to take less money?

I am happy about it in that it frees up cap room so we can get some talent at WR and OL, but I really don't get it.

I could argue both sides.

1. Him having the best year of his career isn't saying much, because his career numbers were never great.

2. He had a ton of catches but was pretty bad in terms of yardage. That's pretty inefficient.

3. At $5.5M, he would be paid like a top TE in the league, which he really isn't. Also takes into account the gigantic health risk associated.

  18 hours ago, 20306cab said:

Well, I expect Aiken's numbers will go up, being able to play with a REAL NFL QB now.

........based on Luck winning SO MANY playoff games and his Super Bowl performance? Oh, that's right, no real history there.

Well he did have three postseason wins in his first 3 years, which is exceptionally strong. You won't find that in this league very often.

  19 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  21 hours ago, Crusader said:

  21 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  21 hours ago, Crusader said:

Signed by the Buffalo Bills as an undrafted free agent in 2011. Fact, Perriman ranked 20th in drop passes in the NFL while that undrafted guy ranked 121 and 7th on the Ravens team. With all these holes opening up maybe the Ravens can rent a offense for the 2017 season? This 2017 season is getting better and better.

Well, you would expect a rookie to drop more passes than a 5th year player.

The difference between the two is about 2-4 yards/catch.

So basically, Perriman can do more damage (and did last season) with less receptions.

That's called being efficient.

I think you mean effective. Perriman is more effective than efficient Either way his draft reports said he drop a high rate of passes in college and now its starting to show its ugly head in NFL. John H not going to be able to cope with that this year. Jobs are on the line.

No actually he's more efficient also. Getting more yards/catch is being efficient as well.

John's job may be on the line, but Perriman's isn't, and John doesn't have a choice but to cope with the growing pains of a 2nd year WR.

Boldin is effective and efficient. Sign him in July.

Well, actually, if Aiken isn't efficient, then Boldin can't be either, since Boldin's YPC was significantly less than Aiken's.

Obviously the Ravens won't be signing Boldin. There's only one person who hasn't come to grips with this, and it ain't anybody in the FO of the Ravens...

On a side note, cam newton is having shoulder surgery. It's sad but hillarious when I thought our training staff messed up Perrimans diagnosis. These fools diagnosed it righ early December but it took them 3 months to do the surgery. what the heck! Why would you do that?! 

It means they thought his injury would heal with rest and rehab. Three months later they realized it wouldn't.

  13 hours ago, The Greek said:

  15 hours ago, hen826957 said:

I don't get why they are not interested in Zach Brown. He could fill the void and perfect replacement for Orr and even a upgrade. If it because the compensatory pick then smh. He won't be that expensive to sign. Hurry up because the Dolphins and now Bills are interested. Zach Brown would make our defense even more scary.

i like brown as well but he is out of our price range with what we have left in cap space. still have to pay the rookies and have emergency $$ for in season signings when injuries occur. imo if correia does not step up than ozzie and the scouts will have dropped the ball on an early round pick yet again. hoping he is the real deal.

If they don't get Brown, they gonna have to get a LB early. I wish they could get Brown so they could fill that void right away and maybe even a better upgrade. All well we'll see what happens. I wish Orr didn't have to retire.

Or they can just stop playing as many two ILB looks. We don't play a base 3-4 that often anyway, so we could play more nickel/dime looks and rotate linebackers that way.

There's no right or wrong price range for Brown, because you're not going to pay $6-7M a year to two ILBs at the same time, which is what you'll be doing. Very hard to get any sort of ROI on that.

  18 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  19 hours ago, CodyJamesLutz said:

Why doesn't M. Huff count towards the comp formula?

Its based on contract size mostly. He basically gets a league minimum contract.

I don't think that's right, but I found the answer to my question...only Unrestricted Free-Agents count towards the formula, and Huff is a RFA.

Yes, but not all UFAs count either. Again, the three biggest pieces of the Comp pick formula are compensation, playing time, and postseason honors... in that order.

Huff, regardless of whether he was a UFA or RFA, wasn't going to qualify for a comp pick based on that criteria, because he has minimal compensation, zero playing time, and zero postseason honors.

  27 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

How do you know how expensive he is?

I don't. He's been on the market quite a while and his price probably drop. 3 years 20M will probably be enough to sign him if they want. He also fired his agent due to making him being overpriced.

LOL, well at 3 years, $20M you already know why we aren't going after him... because we don't have that kind of money to spend.

With that kind of price tag for a #2 MLB, we wouldn't be able to extend Mosley in a year or two.

He'd have to be in the $3-4M/year range or even less for us to entertain it.

You do realize that spending $6-7M/year on a second ILB is a ton right?

Talk about Adrian Peterson coming to the Ravens needs to be prefaced by the fact that we all need to remember what Peterson said after a 2013 game against the Ravens. He referred to Ravens fans "as the worst fans in all of football". Someone who disrespects Ravens fans has no business in purple and black. Not even to mention that the Ravens have no desire for domestic abusers and beating your children and being legally charged and penalized by the NFL is not a player the Ravens should even spit on.

I don't think we have any interest in him or he has any interest in us.

I don't get why they are not interested in Zach Brown. He could fill the void and perfect replacement for Orr and even a upgrade. If it because the compensatory pick then smh. He won't be that expensive to sign. Hurry up because the Dolphins and now Bills are interested. Zach Brown would make our defense even more scary.

How do you know how expensive he is?

  28 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

Ok as you wish. Ray rice was a horrible player and a person. Had he not layed a hand on his wife then the Ravens would have cut him regardless. And no other team in the NFL would have given him a tryout for 3 years so he should have just retired then. Better?

He may not have been cut then but a performance like he had that last yr and he wouldn't be picked up by anyone. 

 

Now we are a few years removed from his bad yr and he's a few yrs removed from playing. No team is going to pick him up because of that and not because they're still holding the dv against him. 

 

My questions to him him would be. If you're adamant you can play why not go north and showcase your pass catching and run after catch ability?  Wouldn't that be the best way to show that you can still play?

 

Show that you can still play... to who? The NFL? Do you think the NFL would care one bit if he went to Canada and dominated?

The NFL rarely signs high quality CFL players who are actually young and good... what makes you think they would sign a 28-29 year old RB from the CFL?

  18 minutes ago, Tiznut said:

By saying he's being held hostage you're saying he should be released.  

Kind of. I'm saying that if our FO are really considering adding another RB then just let west go. I don't think anyone is willing to give up a third for him and I would feel horrible if we kept west till may then let him go and he signs for someone on a minimum deal. If their not considering adding a RB in FA and that probably is the case then all the power to them and west. I just really like west as a man and don't wish we hinder his progress in any way.

But again, there's two other RBs on the roster that you would certainly cut before you cut West.

Why would you keep Taliaferro and Allen but cut West, when West is obviously your best 2-down runner for the first month currently?

Again, this just seems like fans want the Ravens to cut a better player "just to be nice". Business doesn't work that way, and West certainly knows that.

  23 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And why should Rice get a chance because AP did?

Do people think Rice was as good as AP in 2013 or something? You guys don't seriously think they are comparable do you?

Feels like an apples vs oranges comparison.

Ok as you wish. Ray rice was a horrible player and a person. Had he not layed a hand on his wife then the Ravens would have cut him regardless. And no other team in the NFL would have given him a tryout for 3 years so he should have just retired then. Better?

Cool. So basically this is just a bunch of Ray Rice fans wishing he could play again so they get some nostalgia from it. Very easy to say of course, when assuming none of the risk of anything.

Because, again, comparing his situation to AP's doesn't hold any weight, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten an actual legitimate reason why it does.

If you REALLY wanted to play this out...

Rice would have been on the team in 2014 because of his contract and the dead money associated with it. He almost certainly would have been cut after that season, and he would have spent a year or two bouncing around the league scrounging for mop up duty, with probably not much interest from most teams due to the tread on his tires and his age and rapidly declining skills.

And instead he hit his wife and expedited his retirement.

So he saved you the "pleasure" of watching him pull an Ed Reed at the end of his career.

Feel better now?

  6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No actually what we're trying to say is that you don't need to sign somebody like him to be a backup.

Like thing about what you're saying. You're saying that he's a backup. That means, ideally, he's basically never going to play. We're not talking about bringing him in as a change of pace back or a guy you give the ball to a couple times a game.

We're talking about the kind of player that, ideally, never sees the field for you.

So why in the World would any team want that player and the PR that comes with that? What does ANY NFL franchise gain by signing Ray Rice? Now, or two years ago?

Its a simple risk/reward analysis. The risk is you get chastised by the media, your sponsors, your fans. The reward is that he never plays for you.

Yeah, sounds like a wonderful choice.

He's out of the league due to a combination of those things. If he was a quality player, he'd have played longer. See Greg Hardy.

You better be able to provide some sort of reward to a team in that case, and its almost impossible to argue he provided that.

No actually the guy was saying if Peterson gets a chance then so should rice. And I agree. Rice should have gotten another chance. I didn't say the Ravens should sign him. Neither did he

And why should Rice get a chance because AP did?

Do people think Rice was as good as AP in 2013 or something? You guys don't seriously think they are comparable do you?

Feels like an apples vs oranges comparison.

The Ravens treated Aiken terribly. Why in the world with the impending retirement of Smith would you not try to get Aiken involved and offer him a cheaper three year deal.
Wallace/Perrimen/Moore= Speed
Possession WR: Aiken/Pitta(because we all know he isn't a true TE)
Slot: Aiken/ Camp/ Moore.
We were set and the idea of drafting a WR round 1 would be non existent if the Ravens took better care of their people.

Well there's always the definitive possibility that the Ravens didn't think Aiken was a very good WR (which most people agree with) and that the fans, for the millionth time, overvalue their own players.

It appears the marketplace shares the Ravens sentiments there.

Not like Aiken didn't have the opportunity to get more involved... all he had to do was beat out a 36-37 year old WR for playing time.

Didn't manage to do that either.

  3 hours ago, Tiznut said:

Agreed. Rice was in decline mode and his last full season was statistically bad. Then you add time off on top of that. Yes he may be in good condition and still have muscle but so does Herschel walker and that doesn't mean he'd be productive. 

 

Peterson had 4.5ypc over 1200 yards and had over 2k the yr before that. 

People were already expressing doubt about rice before his suspension 

I get all of that and agree that rice was in decline. And now he's probably off the cliff. The case being made here is wether or not he was worth someone taking a chance on him. The answer to that is yes, as a player he declined but not as much as out of the NFL declined. Heck his backup got 2 more chances on minimum deals but he didn't even get 1 call for 3 years. 

Was Rice in decline, yes and so was the whole team that year. Was rice so bad that he couldnt even be a backup somewhere, no. It just turned out that teams weren't willing to risk a PR nightmare over a player that wasn't getting 2000 yards from scrimmage

rice was cut because of the domestic violence issue not his play. And then he stayed home for 3 years because of the same reason. Not his play. thats all were trying to say

No actually what we're trying to say is that you don't need to sign somebody like him to be a backup.

Like thing about what you're saying. You're saying that he's a backup. That means, ideally, he's basically never going to play. We're not talking about bringing him in as a change of pace back or a guy you give the ball to a couple times a game.

We're talking about the kind of player that, ideally, never sees the field for you.

So why in the World would any team want that player and the PR that comes with that? What does ANY NFL franchise gain by signing Ray Rice? Now, or two years ago?

Its a simple risk/reward analysis. The risk is you get chastised by the media, your sponsors, your fans. The reward is that he never plays for you.

Yeah, sounds like a wonderful choice.

He's out of the league due to a combination of those things. If he was a quality player, he'd have played longer. See Greg Hardy.

You better be able to provide some sort of reward to a team in that case, and its almost impossible to argue he provided that.

  2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Its based on contract size mostly. He basically gets a league minimum contract.

Ravens withdrew his contract 2 weeks ago. He can sign with anybody as an unrestricted free agent.

He signed with the Chiefs last week.

The reason he won't count against the comp pick formula is because they don't give out comp picks for guys who sign for near the minimum, which he did.

  2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  2 hours ago, Crusader said:

Signed by the Buffalo Bills as an undrafted free agent in 2011. Fact, Perriman ranked 20th in drop passes in the NFL while that undrafted guy ranked 121 and 7th on the Ravens team. With all these holes opening up maybe the Ravens can rent a offense for the 2017 season? This 2017 season is getting better and better.

Well, you would expect a rookie to drop more passes than a 5th year player.

The difference between the two is about 2-4 yards/catch.

So basically, Perriman can do more damage (and did last season) with less receptions.

That's called being efficient.

I think you mean effective. Perriman is more effective than efficient Either way his draft reports said he drop a high rate of passes in college and now its starting to show its ugly head in NFL. John H not going to be able to cope with that this year. Jobs are on the line.

No actually he's more efficient also. Getting more yards/catch is being efficient as well.

John's job may be on the line, but Perriman's isn't, and John doesn't have a choice but to cope with the growing pains of a 2nd year WR.

At the State of the Ravens review the top brass said the run game was priority one this year. Financially (given the cost of a RT) and making good on that commitment, no one would be a better #16 pick than a top O-linemen to play ROT.

I think they'll use somebody internally or a mid-round pick. We've had no issue finding quality Olineman in the middle rounds, and using a day 2 or 3 pick on a RT makes plenty of sense.

Why doesn't M. Huff count towards the comp formula?

Its based on contract size mostly. He basically gets a league minimum contract.

Signed by the Buffalo Bills as an undrafted free agent in 2011. Fact, Perriman ranked 20th in drop passes in the NFL while that undrafted guy ranked 121 and 7th on the Ravens team. With all these holes opening up maybe the Ravens can rent a offense for the 2017 season? This 2017 season is getting better and better.

Well, you would expect a rookie to drop more passes than a 5th year player.

The difference between the two is about 2-4 yards/catch.

So basically, Perriman can do more damage (and did last season) with less receptions.

That's called being efficient.