rmcjacket23

We noticed. Ravens have been looking for 21 years. Nice try.

Im not agreeing with you. Im awnsering your question as to why there is a difference in stats between 2013 and 2014 for torrey. You wanted to know and i told you. PI and state of the offense among other things. I certainly dont agree with going off just stats to proof a point what you clearly did as seen below........ Well obviously using stats would be better than using subjective measures like saying somebody was "double teamed a lot" (which you should be able to quantify by the way), or the impact of changes in personnel or gameplan schemes. That's the problem with subjective measurements... they can't actually ever be proven as factual or non-factual. They are theories based on something you perceived to have happened, and there's no ability to accurately gauge the impact of it. You can guess at it, but that's about all you can do with a subjective measurement. My point about statistics isn't to say that you shouldn't use them. My point is to make sure you use the RIGHT one's. One's that take into account more context. One's that don't just involve looking at how many TDs somebody caught the year before and saying "gee he could do that again". The stats I referenced you won't find in a box score. You'll find pieces of the pie in a box score, but not anything close to the whole pie.

Disagree on the "nobody is as bad at signing or drafting players as the Ravens are at WR". In case you hadn't noticed, there are multiple teams in this league that have spent 10-20 years (or more) looking for even a respectable NFL QB. Torrey Smith alone is a better player than some teams QBs they've drafted for decades.

It would cost them $10-12M this year, or $10-12M two years from now. So why would you pay early? You pay early IF you think the compensation level is going to skyrocket, which ILB likely won't. I'd also definitely take the under on that range. My guess would be $8-10M. He won't get paid as much as Kuechly.

Pretty sure Claiborne realizes that very little is going to change before the draft, and that it doesn't matter at all if he signs now or a month from now, because the market pretty much is what it is at this point.

A TE at #16 is certainly in play, though I wouldn't bet that we would go that route, because there's really only one that we would be interested there. We need playmakers. TEs who can catch passes and create mismatches would certainly qualify as a playmaker. I know fans like to pretend like we have a lot of good players or quality depth at TE, but the fact that we keep referencing how much depth we have is kind of the point. We have a lot of depth and nobody who can separate themselves from the pack and force significant playing time and create problems for the defenses. We've got guys that can block, and we've got guys that can catch. We don't have anybody who can do either. SO you are saying that Howard is in play as the top 16th player on the Ravens board. Just say it Mac. no reason to beat around the bush. I dont quite agree, there will be plenty of players available to the Ravens at #16 that will be better suited for the team at this point. I predict it will be the Ravens choice at #16 to pick a player who fills immediate need, style of play, dominance and can fill the starter level at the position asap. Beside the fact that the Ravens TE depth is solid, there is no way to know if a Rookie can come in and compete at the starting level we agree on that. With the retention of Pitta or Watson, even Gilmore, Waller or Boyle it would be doubtful to take over a starting position. These guys are Pro athletes, I think you give them less credit than deserved. Again, its obvious that you disagree with me that the Ravens will not look at certain positions with the #1 pick. I guess we are about to find out this draft if that is so. There are many rated players to be chosen at 16, yes it will depend on the first 15. However moving all players in and out the Ravens will pick past Howard for a CB, Edge, LB, WR, OL. I say there are 10 players above him, maybe more at "clock time" I don't know if he's in play or not. The connection is there, and he's considered a universal first round prospect by many. He's a playmaker with freakish size and is a matchup nightmare. Would stand to reason that any team in the league would love to have him. If the Ravens actually selected a player that would fill an immediate need (of which TE still qualifies there in my eyes), that would be a stark deviation from what we normally do, so I'm not sure what the basis for that expectation is. You say that you don't know if a rookie can come in and compete at a starting level. That applies to 100% of positions. If we draft a Corner, Safety, Pass Rusher, MLB, Olineman, WR, etc., there's zero guarantee he can be a starter right away. Many of those positions I would argue its almost implied that he won't be a starter, based on the learning curve of the position. Frankly it doesn't matter what you, I, or anybody else rates a player. Its pretty frequently that the FO rates players much differently than fans or the media does, oftentimes to our benefit.

Be careful when alluding to those College guys as "Play right now". We have seen time and time again that many can't make the jump to the NFL tier right away. Just look at Lattimore. He couldn't stay healthy on the college level with hamstring problems. NFL training, practices and games are much more rigorous then anything they have ever done. CB in particular is a position you should never have high expectations for a year 1 contribution. Speed of the game alone takes years to get used to, and a lot of your first round corners end up playing as the #3 or #4 corner in nickel/dime packages for much of their rookie year. I would have zero expectations that a 1st round corner we take is going to line up outside and start covering quality WRs by himself. I would prefer a rookie CB drafted in first 4 rounds vs a declining CB that Ravens tried to hide at S. Tavon Young did a fine job so it can be done. So would I, but that has nothing to do with Webb, since I never remotely suggested or implies that we should bring him back as a safety or a corner. Tavon Young had a good year for us. How quickly we forget how irrelevant Jimmy Smith's rookie (and much of his sophomore) year was. It took 2-3 seasons for him to develop into the player he is now. This list of drafted corners, regardless of round, that don't have a major impact in year 1 is much, much, much longer than the list of rookie corners who do. Nothing is impossible, but its about setting reasonable expectations.

not really though. your point does not consider the state of the offense. 2013 was a down year for the entire offense with torrey being the only healthy capable receiver. pretty much explains the spike in volume of targets. he was leading the NFL for the first few weeks but then slowed down a lot once teams decided to double team him since he was the only weapon. pretty much explains his lack of TD to. week 5 was the last time he went over 100 yards receiving for instance. also when teams have to pick between jacoby and torrey then teams will pick torrey to role coverage to making it harder for him to score TDs. when teams have to pick between torrey and SSS then it becomes easier. your point does not consider the QB play in 2013 compared to 2014. nor the blocking of the oline or the running. heck your point does not consider the scheme and playbook change for instance. the only point you have made so far is that you tell people to not look at the boxscore yet yourself build your entire argument based on doing just that...... the fact that you have to ask why there is a difference between 2013 and 2014 is telling quite frankly.... So basically there's about a dozen other variables outside of looking at what somebody did in a prior year on a different team that would determine how many TDs, receptions, yards, etc. any individual player will get in a single season. How is this different from what I said all along? You could have summed up this entire post with one simple phrase... "I agree with you". You're just regurgitating at this point.

he could have had more ? So the year where he already had 3 times as many in the previous year with like 45 less targets, he could have had more? O look, more proof of my point.

he was being interfered when trying try to catch the ball. lead the league by a pretty large margin. was avg like 21.7 yards per penalty. had like 12 penalties for about 261 yards. also in 2014 he had 49 receptions which is the same as in 2012 when he also had 49 reception. quite curious how this is a career low in your eyes lol. he actually did that with less targets ..... Yeah like I said below all his PI's added up and made a big difference. What impact does that have on him catching TDs?

he was being interfered when trying try to catch the ball. lead the league by a pretty large margin. was avg like 21.7 yards per penalty. had like 12 penalties for about 261 yards. also in 2014 he had 49 receptions which is the same as in 2012 when he also had 49 reception. quite curious how this is a career low in your eyes lol. he actually did that with less targets ..... 1. Well, if he had 49 twice, and he never had a year lower than that with the Ravens, then by definition, that would be a Ravens career low. He could do the same reception total 10 times if he wanted to and it would still be a Ravens career low. 2. You do realize that you just made my point for me? He had 46 less targets in 2014 compared to 2013, yet he catches 7 more TDs? This is the explanation I'm waiting on people to come up with. You throw the ball to him a ton less, and he scores more TDs, yet people think TDs are somehow a viable measurement metric? And by the way, even if you add back all the PI yardage and give him a reception for every PI he drew (which isn't realistic of course), he would still have a better Yards/catch in 2013, and he would still have more yardage in 2013, though on much higher target volume. Heck, I'll even make it simple for you guys: 2011: 14 targets per TD 2012: 14 targets per TD 2013: 35 targets per TD 2014: 8 targets per TD 2011: 7 receptions per TD 2012: 6 receptions per TD 2013: 16 receptions per TD 2014: 4 receptions per TD I would love for somebody to explain to me the sustainability of somebody who consistently catches a TD every 8 times they have a ball thrown in their vicinity, or somebody who catches a TD on 25% of their receptions consistently. Again, you guys have got to try harder. I can play this game with just about any receiver in the league who has played long enough in terms of how bad a measurement TD receptions are.

Sounds like a weaker version of Dennis Pitta, who we just asked to take a paycut. I rest my case. 2 million and a slot receiver. Obviously a different type of player. Low money for a PROVEN WINNER. Pitta essentially is a slot receiver. What position did you think he played? In fact, they're not different types of players at all. They were both extremely inefficient catching the football last season. They were essentially the same player, with one having more volume. And no, I don't care about the # of TDs either caught, because that's a proven unsustainable metric with large fluctuations on an annual basis. Individual football players aren't proven winners, especially at the WR position. He, like every other player on the field, is completely and utterly dependent on other players on the team to make him a winner. Individual Players aren't proven winners? I get that it's a team game but I believe Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Rodgers, Brady, and a long list of players would fall into the category of proven winners. Except when they don't win, which is more often than they do win. Fun fact: Over half of the seasons that Ray Lewis played the Ravens didn't win a single playoff game. Almost half of them they didn't even make the playoffs. Is that what constitutes a "winner"? Let me know which way you want to move the goal post and I'll keep kicking them right through. I don't have to move them. You are Billy Cundiff over and over again. To say Ray Lewis is not a winner and the worthless incorrect points you "Tried" to make is laughable. He's a winner because he played with other really good players and his team won. That's what makes him a winner. He doesn't throw the ball, he doesn't catch the ball, he doesn't run the ball, he doesn't block for guys. As an individual football player, 100% of every player who has ever played the sport is extremely limited to a mere handful of things they can do to CONTRIBUTE to a team winning.

Sounds like a weaker version of Dennis Pitta, who we just asked to take a paycut. I rest my case. Sorry, but Boldin is NOT a weaker version of Dennis Pitta. How do you even back that statement up? Boldin has missed just 2 games in the last 4 years, and hauled in 8 TD passes last season. Even at 36 years old, I'd rather have him on the field than Pitta. 1. I don't care about TD catches, because they are too inconsistent for just about every WR. He caught 8 last year and 7 the two years prior. 2. A lesser version to the extent of receptions, which is what the original commenter said we should sign him for. If the basis for signing him is so that he will simply catch passes, then he's a lesser version of Pitta to that extent. 3. I don't want Boldin because I want to get younger and better at that position (and frankly most positions). I don't think anybody is looking at this team or roster thinking that we are in a position to make some sort of SB run next season. Signing him would be some sort of fan-favorite nostalgia move I guess, but I fail to see how the Baltimore Ravens are a better football team long term by signing him. "I don't care about TD catches" Seriously? Not for individual players I don't. I mean you can pick just about any WR you want. Radical swings in TD catches on a year over year basis. Everytime I hear somebody say "so and so caught X # of TDs last season, so he's good for that again", they're wrong almost every single time. Pick the greatest WRs you've ever seen. All have radical shifts in TD catches over a short period of time. Heck, here's just Ravens examples: Boldin: first year here he catches 7 TDs. The very next year... he averages 10 yards/game more, has more yardage, increases his Yards/Catch by 2.5 yards... all in 2 less games. His TDs dropped from 7 to 3. Literally every possibly metric says he was a better, more efficient, more productive WR for this team in 2011 than in 2010, yet his TD numbers were less than half. Why is that? Torrey Smith: averaged 70 yards/game in 2013, career highs in receptions, yards, YPG, yards/catch, etc. Had 4 TDs The next year, Ravens career lows in receptions, yardage, YPG, yards/catch... has 11 TDs, almost three times as many. Why is that? Again, if you guys step away from the box scores, you'll get this.

Sounds like a weaker version of Dennis Pitta, who we just asked to take a paycut. I rest my case. 2 million and a slot receiver. Obviously a different type of player. Low money for a PROVEN WINNER. Pitta essentially is a slot receiver. What position did you think he played? In fact, they're not different types of players at all. They were both extremely inefficient catching the football last season. They were essentially the same player, with one having more volume. And no, I don't care about the # of TDs either caught, because that's a proven unsustainable metric with large fluctuations on an annual basis. Individual football players aren't proven winners, especially at the WR position. He, like every other player on the field, is completely and utterly dependent on other players on the team to make him a winner. Individual Players aren't proven winners? I get that it's a team game but I believe Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Rodgers, Brady, and a long list of players would fall into the category of proven winners. Except when they don't win, which is more often than they do win. Fun fact: Over half of the seasons that Ray Lewis played the Ravens didn't win a single playoff game. Almost half of them they didn't even make the playoffs. Is that what constitutes a "winner"? Let me know which way you want to move the goal post and I'll keep kicking them right through. Your fun fact sounds dumb smh Facts are only dumb to those that refuse to listen to them. All I can do is lead the horse to the water... its up to the horse whether he wants to drown himself in ignorance... In 17 seasons, 10 playoff appearances w/ 2 Superbowls, 1 and done like 2 times...no team has been that consistent besides the Patriots and Steelers And you just agreed with me. I noticed that you referenced TEAM names there and not individual player names. Why is that? Could it be because teams win consistently and individual players don't? In fact, that's exactly what it is. Why do you think Matt Cassell has a career at all? This ain't rocket science folks.

Be careful when alluding to those College guys as "Play right now". We have seen time and time again that many can't make the jump to the NFL tier right away. Just look at Lattimore. He couldn't stay healthy on the college level with hamstring problems. NFL training, practices and games are much more rigorous then anything they have ever done. CB in particular is a position you should never have high expectations for a year 1 contribution. Speed of the game alone takes years to get used to, and a lot of your first round corners end up playing as the #3 or #4 corner in nickel/dime packages for much of their rookie year. I would have zero expectations that a 1st round corner we take is going to line up outside and start covering quality WRs by himself.

Sounds like a weaker version of Dennis Pitta, who we just asked to take a paycut. I rest my case. Sorry, but Boldin is NOT a weaker version of Dennis Pitta. How do you even back that statement up? Boldin has missed just 2 games in the last 4 years, and hauled in 8 TD passes last season. Even at 36 years old, I'd rather have him on the field than Pitta. 1. I don't care about TD catches, because they are too inconsistent for just about every WR. He caught 8 last year and 7 the two years prior. 2. A lesser version to the extent of receptions, which is what the original commenter said we should sign him for. If the basis for signing him is so that he will simply catch passes, then he's a lesser version of Pitta to that extent. 3. I don't want Boldin because I want to get younger and better at that position (and frankly most positions). I don't think anybody is looking at this team or roster thinking that we are in a position to make some sort of SB run next season. Signing him would be some sort of fan-favorite nostalgia move I guess, but I fail to see how the Baltimore Ravens are a better football team long term by signing him.

I don't really consider Brandon Williams a "FA purchase", because he's never played anywhere else. That's the equivalent of saying that Joe Flacco was a big FA purchase. If we had gone and signed Von Miller to a $20M a year deal, that would be a big FA purchase.

haha, might as well bring kamar aiken back then rather than boldin Or neither.

Sounds like a weaker version of Dennis Pitta, who we just asked to take a paycut. I rest my case. "Q" a weaker version of Pitta?? You are trying to be humorous... right? No, they're the same player at this point. Like literally I don't see what one brings that the other doesn't. Red Zone Presence(8 TD's last season). Makes contested catches. Great physical blocker. That would be Boldin NOT Pitta. 1. Then why did he only have 9 TDs the two years prior? What, did he just learn how to be a Red Zone presence? Or how about he had 7 regular season TDs in his last two years in Baltimore? Why was that? 2. Pitta makes contested catches. That's kind of what he's most valuable for. 3. Ahh, so we're paying a WR a couple million to block now? Yeah, that'll get us over the hump.

Sounds like a weaker version of Dennis Pitta, who we just asked to take a paycut. I rest my case. "Q" a weaker version of Pitta?? You are trying to be humorous... right? No, they're the same player at this point. Like literally I don't see what one brings that the other doesn't.

Sounds like a weaker version of Dennis Pitta, who we just asked to take a paycut. I rest my case. 2 million and a slot receiver. Obviously a different type of player. Low money for a PROVEN WINNER. Pitta essentially is a slot receiver. What position did you think he played? In fact, they're not different types of players at all. They were both extremely inefficient catching the football last season. They were essentially the same player, with one having more volume. And no, I don't care about the # of TDs either caught, because that's a proven unsustainable metric with large fluctuations on an annual basis. Individual football players aren't proven winners, especially at the WR position. He, like every other player on the field, is completely and utterly dependent on other players on the team to make him a winner.

Sounds like a weaker version of Dennis Pitta, who we just asked to take a paycut. I rest my case. Yeah, can't wait for Chris Moore to light it up with his contribution of 11 catches. I rest my case. And if he gets 200 yards with those 11 catches, that makes us better off. No shortage of other guys on the team that can catch the other 40 balls. Point was clear... the quantity of receptions an offensive player has literally nothing to do with how good the offense is. Dennis Pitta caught a lot more than 60 balls last season, and we asked him to take a paycut. That's how valuable those catches were.

Sounds like a weaker version of Dennis Pitta, who we just asked to take a paycut. I rest my case.

Doesn't matter. The NFL makes more money off of you when you sit at home and watch the game while you eat bons bons. Couldn't care less if you came to the stadium. There's tens of thousands of people who will gladly come in your place and have been waiting a while to do so.

1. In regards to Jefferson, I don't think he's an All-World player, but then again, he's not really getting paid like one either. At the end of the day, we need more youth, more speed, and more efficiency at safety. Webb is a good football player, but he brings none of those things. We could have not signed Jefferson, but then again, we'd still be needing to address the safety position in the draft (among like a dozen other positions), and there's a good chance we would have been unsuccessful at doing so. Weddle only has like another year or two left in him, so locking up Jefferson makes sense. 2. You could've signed Poe for half the price... on a one year contract only. He's not signing a long term deal with anybody for $5-6M a year, otherwise he'd already be signed by now, because half the league would have given him that. So you sign him for one year, he plays great, and then you pay him Brandon Williams money next season or let him walk. Same predicament, just delayed. I'm not the biggest fan of the Williams deal either, but if you're going to spend money, at least do it retaining your own guys. Very few teams in this league are successful signing a lot of FAs every year. I had zero interest in using $8M of cap space on some veteran FA who probably wouldn't be any good anyway, because the market for those this season was pretty poor. 3. There's only a handful of backs in the league with that capability, and most of them don't play for winning teams. That's not a requirement to field a winning team. We may get one in the draft, we may not. Depends on how it shakes out. We need playmakers on offense in general, and that doesn't necessarily require a speed RB.