robbie29

This time next year, we'll be consoling ourselves with the losses of Wagner and Williams by saying, "Hey, at least we got a couple late round comp picks." Whoopdy freakin' doo. I understand that Ozzie loves having a lot of picks, but seriously- I would much rather see the Ravens figure out how to keep talented young players then settle for a few comp picks at the end of rounds 3 thru 6. This Front Office needs to do a better job at retaining talent, but over the last 4 years they've shot themselves in the foot by making bad contract decisions and overpaying average players (Flacco, Webb) as well as aging/injured vets (Suggs, Jimmy Smith). By comparison, successful teams like Pittsburgh and New England have Front Offices that are very good at structuring contracts of key players so that they can sign quality free agents and retain legitimately (Pro Bowl/All Pro) talented youngsters past their rookie contracts. We used to be able to do that. I mean, at one point we had Ray, Reed, Suggs, McAlister, Jamal Lewis, and Boulware all on the roster and all signed past their rookie deals. Recently though, the Ravens have not only experienced a drop in drafted talent, but have been terrible at retaining young talent and negotiating contracts. It's been frustrating enough to watch the Ravens players on the field each of the last two years, but a lot of the fault for the Ravens' fall to mediocrity rests with the Front Office and coaches too.

  4 hours ago, Obie said:

Man, we have got to let joe go, resign him for 1/2, or less , than what he makes, we need to keep what good players we have, sad state of affairs signing him to that sb contract, should have waited a few years, would have gotten him real cheap, maybe another cousins, ha ha ha

If you cut Flacco, he'll have a new job in about 10 seconds.
And not in Baltimore.

Yeah, Ottawa or Saskatchewan would take him in a heartbeat.

  1 hour ago, The Negotiator said:

Flacco is not a Franchise QB, no where near Elite. He is holding this team hostage with his contract. The Playmakers are lacking and thats whats holding the Ravens back.

The thing about it is don't blame Joe for his contract blame the front office. Joe could've accepted less that he was offered. Joe was probably flattered that they gave him more than he wanted.

I agree- it is the front office's fault for Joe's ridiculous contract. They got completely caught up in SB euphoria and handed a ridiculous amount of cash over to Joe. That's just one part of the problem since 2012. I mean for several years we managed to keep guys like R. Lewis, Ogden, Suggs, Ed Reed, Ngata and several other Pro Bowl calibre players past their rookie contract. Now, thanks in large part to dumb decisions like overpaying Flacco and aging/injured veterans, we are unable to keep any of our young talent past their rookie contract.
Especially with Suggs and Yanda entering their twilight years, it is pretty difficult to imagine many scenarios where the Ravens can finish much better than 8-8, at least not for the next few years.

3 hours ago, The Raven said:

Where do I even begin with this travesty 

1. I can figure last year was Zuttah's worst season with the Ravens because I have eyes, and with those eyes, I saw that he was absolutely useless in the running game and was a mediocre pass blocker who routinely missed blitz pick ups.

2. Oh man, he started 16 games. Incredible. So did Kyle Boller once upon a time in 2004.

3. Yeah, he got a Pro Bowl I guess, but was he All Pro? Oh right, he wasn't. How did PFF rank him? Oh right, poorly.

4. Pretty clear he's at least better than most centers? Maybe at getting walked back into the pocket and thrown into running lanes. Go watch another team and come back here and tell me how many times the center got pushed back on a run play. How many times did he trip his own QB?

5. His best year with the Ravens was 2014 and it's not even close. His Pro Bowl this year is probably a mulligan by the league for not putting him in the Pro Bowl then.

So you're basically saying 2014 was better for him because you have eyes, Pro Bowl selections are worthless, and 16 starts for an O Lineman = no big deal. I'm not sure how you can even back up #4, unless you watched every single 2017 NFL game, and can provide a breakdown of all 32 centers and the number of times each one was pushed backwards and tripped their QB (BTW- I hope nobody has that kind of time on their hands bc that's just sad).

Oh well, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Agree to disagree. Go Ravens!

20 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

It is as bad as we're "making it out to be" and the numbers have been laid out to prove it. There is no judgement call here, it is black and white, carved in stone, 100% factual and not up for debate, the numbers are indisputable. The salary cap is X, the ravens current cap space is Y, cutting flacco costs Z in cap space. If Y+Z is greater than X then you have a problem, in this case Y+Z is so much greater than X that it literally breaks the franchise. 

What are you not getting?

All that math...wait a minute-

Is that you, John Urschel?

2 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

 

Last year Mangold played with left guard James Carpenter(former first rounder) and right guard Brian Winter(former third rounder) who just got a contract extension for playing well . Neither of those guys are Marshal Yanda but from what I have gathered they aren't terrible either. Winter was bad in 2014 and  2015 but  his  play was  better in 2016 but Mangold has not always played with other great offensive linemen . This is the same guy  who has been a top center in The NFl while playing with average starters like Vlad Ducasse , Willie Colon ,and etc.   I can understand injuries but beings surrounded by talent hasn't been the reason for his success in the past so why would it be now? .  Jeremy Zuttah had his worst season last year as a Raven and for  most of the season played through injuries but I don't know why he doesn't get  a pass for that .

 

Blocking scheme wise I don't know The Ravens direction with that . They hired a  offensive line coach that has experience with teaching the zone blocking scheme and Marty M likes that scheme . Greg Roman himself has experience using it  especially when he had Lesean McCoy as his starting running back when he was The Bills offensive coordinator. Mangold is 33 years old and I have no clue on how good he is even if healthy but I hope Ravens fans aren't showing interest in this guy because of name alone.

How do you figure last year was Zuttah's worst season with the Ravens? He started all 16 games and played well enough to earn a Pro Bowl nod. Pro Bowl selection may not be the 100% final say whether a guy is great, but it's pretty clear that he's at least better than most other Centers in the NFL. You could very easily argue that last year was actually Zuttah's best year with the Ravens.

"RAVENS GIVE 'VERY COMPETITIVE' OFFER TO RICK WAGNER"

Doesn't mean a thing. That was the exact same phrase ("a very competitive offer") they used about Osemele last season - and we all know how that worked out...

"Very competitive offer" is the Ravens' way of saying "we're probably going to lose yet another young, talented player because we've got all our money invested in aging/injured players and our overrated QB."

IDK what "competitive offer means.... I would love to hear some numbers but I guess it is simply a little bit of a waiting game. I think we could keep MW- BW -RW, Ducasse and KJ and still clear cap space by letting go of: Webb, Arrington, Guy, (Z Orrs contract and SSS contract need to be factored in) . Letting Pitta walk, letting Kamar, letting Elam go and KLewis and maybe even Dumervill, and Sharece Wright. (and possibly Zuttah, JPowers and JHurst)

"Competitive offer" = we tried but it really looks like we won't have the money to keep Wagner, just like we couldn't afford K.O.

Mangold is an All Pro and likely HOF player. I guarantee that fact isn't lost on the rest of the NFL (except obviously the Jets). Even at 33, I don't think we're going to be able to afford the guy. There are a bunch of teams who are also looking for an upgrade at center, and a bunch of those teams have more money to spend than the Ravens.

Every offseason at least one Raven does something stupid like this. Recently, it seems like several players each off season. 2014 in particular was terrible, then 2 years later we lose 2 TEs due to bone-headed substance abuse issues. Seems like part of the issue is a lack of player cohesion and Team First mentality. These idiots getting themselves suspended or kicked off the team don't seem to give a darn that their actions are negatively impacting the team. Does Harbaugh just not have much influence or is there a lack of legitimate leadership among the players? Obviously the loss of Elam is not a big deal but the yearly trend of losing players either to suspension or being released because of stupid stuff is disturbing. And there are still 5 months to go before training camp starts. Let's hope this Elam incident is the only one this offseason.

11 hours ago, hen826957 said:

Nick Mangold has been released from the Jets. This is a great opportunity for the Ravens to get a multi time veteran center and replace Zuttah. Zuttah cost us many penalties and drives last year. 

Joe Flacco cost us more drives than Zuttah. Heck, Flacco even had more penalties (7) than Zuttah (6).

Mangold is 33 and had injury problems last year. The last thing the injury-prone Ravens need is a guy who has problems staying healthy.

"We wont make that mistake when another just as talented right tackle could be gotten in a later round in the draft just like Wagner was picked up."

The problem is that Wagner is the exception to the rule. It's highly unlikely we'll get a RT as solid as Wagner in rounds 4-7. The vast majority of O Line players Ozzie picks up in late rounds are guys like Urschel, Harewood, Jensen, or Robert Myers. Ozzie's drafts aren't anything like they were 1996-2006. These days, the misses far outnumber the hits. Another problem is that since all our money is locked up in aging and/or injured players plus our subpar QB, we don't have the money to retain the good players we draft. Once their rookie contract is up, they're gone.

I do agree with you about Flacco needing to take a pay cut. Unfortunately, it ain't gonna happen.

Pitta's situation with the Ravens = Brian Roberts & the Orioles

I'm not saying we should keep Dumervil but taking Barwin over Dumervil would be ridiculous

I wouldn't say ridiculous at all. Dumervil has better career numbers sure, but over the last three years, both he and Barwin have similar numbers (same sacks and Barwin actually has more tackles). Consider that Barwin is younger and has started every single game since 2010- that makes him more reliable IMO than Dumervil.
Given the Ravens' troubling inability to keep players healthy the last few years, we need as many reliable players as possible who we can expect to be on the field.

51 minutes ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

1 hour ago, robbie29 said:

I really hope we don't cut Zuttah. There are no linemen currently on the roster who would be an upgrade, and there are no improvements available via free agency. I don't know of any legit, starting-calibre centers available via the draft either. Also- Zuttah was the only guy on the line who started all 16 games last year. Considering Baltimore's terrible luck keepinig guys healthy, we need all the reliable guys we can get.

Zuttah is the week link

I disagree 100% that Zuttah is the weak link. He may have been a late addition to the Pro Bowl roster, but even that is pretty clear evidence that the guy is above average. We're in a much better position at Center than most NFL teams. Unfortunately, the guy we have taking snaps is worse than most other NFL teams.

I really hope we don't cut Zuttah. There are no linemen currently on the roster who would be an upgrade, and there are no improvements available via free agency. I don't know of any legit, starting-calibre centers available via the draft either. Also- Zuttah was the only guy on the line who started all 16 games last year. Considering Baltimore's terrible luck keepinig guys healthy, we need all the reliable guys we can get.

It will be bad for us if the Steelers figure out how to keep Bell and Brown, which would mean they have a Pro Bowl QB, and All Pro RB and WR (a deadly offensive tri-fecta). The fact that they not only draft stellar play makers but also know how to hang on to that talent is why they have made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years. The fact that we've regressed to where we can neither draft nor retain offensive play makers is a big reason why we've missed the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years. That the Ravens can't keep starters healthy is also an unfortunate contributor to the recent decline into mediocrity. Here's to optimism- hoping we start drafting All Pros, keep our guys healthy, and figure out how to hang on to our young play makers beyond their rookie contract.Go Ravens!

  3 hours ago, The Greek said:

d'qwell would be a solid addition imo if the price works and mr. injury prone crockett should worry about making the team.

No thanks we don't need older players on the cheap we need younger faster ,stronger players

Where is the money going to come from to pay for those younger, faster players? The FO is already over-paying Flacco and our aging/injury-prone veterans. That severely limits our ability to sign playmakers.

Honestly, is Pierre Garcon that significant of an upgrade from Kamar Aiken?

I'd say definitely. He's more proven, didn't have nearly the dramatic dropoff in production that Kamar had last year, and Garcon is more sure-handed than Aiken (something the Ravens offense desperately needs). Garcon is a definite upgrade IMO.

I looked over the complete second round history of this franchise and it is I'd say roughly 50/50 whether we get a gem or a bust and that doesn't refer to recent history. It has been that way for the entire length of this franchise.

I think the issue is that the more recent moves are obviously the more easily remembered ones and the busts sometimes overshadow the ones that turn into full time starters.

Just within the last few seasons we've seen these results:

2010: The Kindle/Cody fiasco, but then we bounce back in 2011 and 2012 with Torrey Smith and Kelechi Osemele...two BIG pieces to our second superbowl. Then in 2013 you have the Arthur Brown bust, but then in 2014 we get Timmy Jernigan who kind of dazzles you at time with flashes of brilliance and then blows it with stupid plays/lack of production. We also got Maxx Williams in 2015 who showed when healthy he might be a player, followed by KC in 2016 who so far is not showing up well.

I found myself thinking, "Hmm, maybe the Ravens would be better off just trading the 2nd round pick to trade up or get more picks later in the draft..." but then reversing myself when I see names like Ray Rice, Torrey Smith, and Kelechi Osemele.

"when healthy"...that's been the tragic prefix/suffix to most Ravens players in recent years. I say tragic because, more often than not, the guys who are great "WHEN HEALTHY" often miss significant playing time due to injury. Last year was particularly brutal- we lost all our top 3 TEs, plus our 2nd & 3rd picks, and a 4th round pick. Heck, even Stanley missed a quarter of the season. It's one thing if the older guys go down, bc you have younger guys who can step up. But when your young guys go down and you have to start your 2nd and 3rd string players, you end up with an 8-8 or a 5-11 record. Kinda hard to re-build and do well when you can't keep your draft picks on the field.

Lets start with the O line. We need a center and one more. Then 2 fast DB's and another fast LB. A fast WR that can catch would be great but we know Ozzie can't pick WR's. A QB would also help, Flacco isn't what he once was and isn't going to get better, only get worse. Get a guy who could sit for a year or two, learn the pro game would be GREAT but If he could replace Flacco right away that would be even better. People just have to face that FACT that Flacco isn't that great. Strong arm but can't hit simple passes that get first downs and keeps the offense on the field. "3 and out Flacco" is NOT worth the money he's being paid.
Throw in a RB that can gain 3-5 yards at a time, eat some clock time would be a BIG bonus

So you're essentially saying that the Ravens need a roster overhaul to become good again?

   Bill Bella cheat, Tom shady and the patriots have had internal support from major sources financially, to cheating,  from the commissioner Goodell to their owner Kraft. To me, obviously the patriots and NFL plan to get two more Super Bowl's before retirement is even an option. Even their retirement could be orchestrated.  Very sickening to think.

The NFL is becoming more and more like WWE- it's more about entertaining and less about playing the freakin' game. With all the billions that are tied up in the league, each week and especially the Super Bowl- there's no way I'll believe that a lot of what we're seeing ain't scripted. Heck, we're probably just a few years away from entire seasons being choreographed.

February, March, and almost all of April...
That nearly 3-month void of nothing after the Super Bowl just sucks. Why doesn't the NFL add 2 games to the schedule, extend the season one more month and give each team an additional bye? Make these guys work a little harder for their pay.

IF he does decide to coach, let's just hope Ray decides to re-join the Ravens. Ed Reed spent nearly his entire career with the Ravens but then decided to coach for the Bills (Thanks, Ed). I do think, however, that if Ray Lewis joined the Ravens that would be enough to convince Reed to re-join the Ravens, especially since Rex is no longer in Buffalo. But talk is cheap and first thing's first- I'll only believe Ray Lewis wants to coach when I see him on the sidelines.

  1 hour ago, ByTheBay said:

Ravens were ranked #15 in the league in dropped passes. Right in the middle. Every team has dropped passes. 

How about crucial drops? There is a difference you know.

You're reaching, dude. Since SB 47, Flacco has finished near the bottom of the league each year. The guy stinks.