rmw10

I'd trade Ngata before I would trade or cut Suggs. We could get more for him and would free up more cap space.

Cutting or trading Ngata only frees up $1M in cap space.

They'll tag someone to keep someone and get more cap space...  One may not be happy about it, but they will do that.

The tag will actually eat up more cap space in 99% of cases.

...  and that would be sad. 

It will be, but hey, that's business.  Jacoby is just a luxury at this point.  If he comes back at an insane bargain, you keep him.  I just don't see that being plausible.

That's an opinion that I don't necessarily agree with...  Jacoby is proven...  some of the others not so much...  and to let some of the older guys go is actually a good thing for this teams future....  Jacoby is not our 4th receiver.  He is potentially #2...  With Torrey and Marlon out there?????  I just see it a little differently than you do, I guess.  Give me the guys who are clutch...  Anyday... not the guys "who might be".  I think that's what we did this year...  I don't see this happening again.  Not anytime soon.

I think the FO has made it clear that they're committed to Torrey and Marlon as starters.  I don't see any way we don't come out of the draft without a receiver in at least the first 2 rounds.  That would make Jacoby 4th.

It's not about having Jacoby or not having Jacoby.  The question becomes whether the cost is worth it to keep him around while we have many other holes.  I don't see anyway that it's worth it.  I love the guy, but his time here in Baltimore is probably done.

There are ways to open cap space...  We do need offensive line people, most definitely...  but there are other member of the roster that can go that are not as necessary...  I see Dickson going...  Possibly Doss...  Oher...  as well as a few others.  We need the offensive players for sure....

But all of those guys are already free agents.  We don't gain anything by not re-signing them.  Even with cuts, you still presumably have 4 guys ahead of Jacoby that we'd like to re-sign, and still a plethora of other holes.  I just can't see us paying that much for a 4th receiver.  We already have a quality option in Deonte.  He's obviously not as dynamic as Jacoby, but it then becomes a question of cost/production.  Can Deonte give us 75% of what Jacoby offers for 20% of the cost?  I'd assume that answer is yes, and even if it's less than 75%, the value there is better than paying Jacoby a couple million to be a rotational guy.

I think Jacoby comes back...  I am not so sure the relationship with Kubiak could be the deal breaker.  Jacoby has been an awesome return guy, and a decent receiver for us.  I see guys like Doss, Thompson, or some of the others going first.  The guy dropped one ball in Houston, and fans had him crucified.

See my post at the top of this page.  Is paying Jacoby to be a 4th receiver really in our best interest?  We have other holes to fill that would be a better allocation of the cap.  I don't think we can afford to pay him at expense of some other positions, most notably the OL.

I'd pay him $3 million if I were the Ravens. I think that'd be my maximum.

I don't think we can or will go that high, to be honest. I think Monroe, Pitta, Smith, and Graham are all higher priorities. With us likely hitting receiver pretty high in the draft, that would make Jacoby the 4th receiver at that point. We can't pay that much, even though I'd really like to keep him around.

I'm completely fine with that, that's a fair deal.  But he's not the insanely athletic matchup nightmare the truly elite TEs are.  Our fans get so swept up in the players that they have unrealistic views of them sometimes.

I agree.  Even is he does hit the open market, I don't see any team offering him more than $4-5M.  His value/play aren't that of the Gronks and the likes of the world, and I sincerely doubt anyone would even offer him that, cap space or not.  He's a solid player for us, and one that I think we should bring back, but I don't think he's a crucial "we need him or we don't win" type of player.

I like Dennis Pitta a lot.  He's a quality guy that comes in and gets his work done.  He has good chemistry with Joe and he does a lot of nice things on the field.  But he's not a (healthy) Gronk or Graham type of player, not even close.  He's an old school receiving TE.  He's a (not much) younger version of Dallas Clark.  He's still prone to dropping a few balls he shouldn't drop, and we saw that again today.  He simply can't be given that $7 million type of contract some people are suggesting.  He's not worth it.

I think he'll get a fair deal somewhere between $4-5M annually with us.  He's a solid player, but not a superstar.  He may even take a chance on a one year deal hoping to reboost his value.

When you need a big play, Jacoby makes it. Really hope he's back, but money is always the issue.

I had long, spirited debates about this with at least four different people this offseason.

The reasons why you were wrong are not as important to me as the fact that you were wrong. Just kidding, kind of.

Haha. I do believe I conceded with you that if he came back, I'd agree with you. I think I said that, but I'm not going through that 200 or so page thread to check.

It seems like everyone is finally coming around to what I've been saying since training camp. Pitta will get multiple years at 4-6 million. It will either be from us or someone else.

In my defense, and I know we debated about this lol, I was operating under the assumption that Pitta would not play football at all this year, so no one would know how well he recovered.

If I had even thought that he'd be back, which I didn't think was possible with the original prognosis, I would have agreed with you that he'd get 2 or 3 years in a new deal.

Pitta's numbers will definitely come up in talks but I don't think they will be that important. I think his value will be argued more by his agent and agreed upon by the Ravens as well. If things happen the way I think they will, this offense is gonna open up and put up some big numbers over the next 3-7 weeks and Pitta will have a huge role in that. He's gonna open up the field and make guys like Brown and Jacoby much better.

 

That can't be ignored. Will he get huge money, no, but he'll get a pretty good deal and if he feels the Ravens low ball him, he'll probably get more money on the open market. Remember what happened with Ellerbe and guys like him. When you have success sometimes teams over look numbers.

 

Without the injury Pitta could have easily been a 80-100 catch guy this year, especially if we planed on using him a lot in the Slot like we said. Think about it, he was targeted 11 times in his first game back since the Super Bowl. Now imagine a full season of those type of targets. He's definitely gonna be a valued guy on the market. I imagine we'll attack him and Monroe hard before they hit the market.

And that's how it should be.  Those 2 are the most important free agents.  While you'd love to have guys like Art Jones, Jacoby, Ihedigbo, and Daryl back, those are guys you can live without.  Pitta and Monroe are essential to this team.  They are the ones that we have to hit hard and early.  I have no doubts that they'll be back, but those 2 are the biggest risks to lose if they hit the open market.

I never thought he'd get a mega deal to begin with. He'll get a modest, fair deal. $5M or so per year is my guess.

With 125+ million cap and Ravens being projected to be at $107 million committed and possibly -$10 million after restructuring contracts really makes the possibility of seeing Jacoby and Pitta back in black and purple pretty reasonable...priceless.

We're at approximately $112M right now including the dead money.  There is approximately $5-$6.5M to be saved through cuts, and there's also the potential extension of Suggs to lower his cap number.  Either way, we're probably looking at $20M-ish to play with if the cap comes in at $126M.

With a couple cuts and a potential Suggs restructuring, we could get to about 100M. That provides us with quite a bit of room to work with.

Exactly.  Depending on how everything is structured too, you could get quite a few guys under that limit.

So that's about an extra 3M? Could be the difference in signing a guy like Ihedigbo or Jones.

Yeah most were projecting $122-123M or so.  That $126M number isn't finalized, but even if they settle around $125M-ish, that still gives a bit of extra wiggle room.  That could even bode well for Arthur Jones, too.

This should make it a little bit easier if we really want him back.  Cap is higher than anticipated.

Projected cap numbers for the following year are typically distributed at this meeting. NFL's projecting the '14 cap at $126.3 million

Evidently some people seem to be under the impression, that we can sign Jacoby to an inexpensive contract. I don't think it's a given. 

It's hard to guess right now.  On one hand, I think he could sign a pretty good contract from a team that has money to burn.  On the other hand, he's at the big 30, is an inconsistent 3rd WR, and KR's aren't terribly difficult to find.  I think his price has definitely gone up over the past couple of weeks, but how much?  I have no clue at this point.

Calvin Johnson before they got Reggie Bush this year was the core and the supporting cast and still routinely was a game changer as he produced huge explosive plays every game. So that is a false statement sir. Jacoby doesn't do it every game, but its the closest thing we have and it is extremely valuable in this league. I hope we can retain Monroe, Jacoby and Pitta, but I just don't think Pitta deserves top tight end money. He has never had a season over 700 yards why should we pay him like he is Jimmy Graham or Gronk. 700 yards can be replaced for much cheaper by drafting a TE in the first or second round this year, it is a pretty good talent crop of them unlike last year.

Calvin Johnson is a freak of nature.  Jacoby Jones is not Calvin Johnson.

And why do you think we'll have to pay Pitta that much?  I don't know where you're getting that from.  I know he's not Graham or Gronk, and he's not going to get paid like them either.

What's it matter how he scores? The thing is good things can happen when the ball is in his hands. I mean I'm not trying to knock Pitta, but as the coaches put it themselves for'explosive'plays,we'd get'em faster from Jacoby then we would Pitta. And playmakers are a commodity in the league.

You don't get explosive plays unless you have a core around that explosive player that commands respect.  Teams have to respect Pitta over the middle, which opens up the deep ball for a guy like Jacoby.  I want Jacoby back, but if I have the choice between Pitta and Jacoby, I'm taking Pitta.  Explosive plays are once in awhile.  There's more value out of a guy that can make the tough catch over the middle consistently and extend drives on 3rd down.  As much of a weapon as Jacoby is, he can't consistently make those types of plays.

I see somebody like Kendrick Lewis getting signed to play fs and letting Elam play ss

I thought about Lewis, but I don't see KC letting him go.

You don't think another team with more cap wouldn't just offer him a better deal ? Isn't cincy in desperate need of better safeties and has tons of cap space? This team needs fresh talent infusions not retreads that force your 1st round pick to play out of position

No I don't. He's done well, but he's not going to get much of anything on the open market. Guys like him are available all the time.

As much as id like to move Elam over, what other option do we have? There are virtually no FS worthy of starting either in the draft (unless you pick one high) or in FA. Ihedigbo controls the secondary. He makes the calls and gets everyone in position. He's a very good leader as well. They aren't going to let him walk for the minimal amount of money that he'll cost.

I doubt he is back , there is a reason he has been a career backup and somebody will overpay for him , hopefully .

Ihedigbo has done well here and that's all that matters.  No team is going to overpay for him.  We really like him.  I expect that he's back.  He won't break the bank.  The FS class in the draft and free agency is very weak.  I fully expect Elam to remain at FS and Ihedigbo to remain at SS.

It's not like it's an either or choice.  If we want someone like Jacoby back, it's going to be Jacoby and Ihedigbo, not Jacoby or Ihedigbo.  He'll be cheap enough to where he won't force our hand.

I think you're right. At 30, he probably has a good 3 or 4 years left in the tank. He fits well with the Team and shouldn't be overly expensive.

Exactly.  He won't be expensive at all, and with what he brings to the table, I don't see them letting him walk.  I'd predict somewhere in the 2 year for $4M range.  He's probably earned a bit above the minimum he's made the past 2 years, but as you said, he's 30 and a SS.  He won't command enough that would keep us from re-signing guys like Jacoby and Daryl if we really wanted them.