Mystigo_Dragon

"The Ravens have a long history of finding diamonds in the rough at inside linebacker. Bart Scott, Jameel McClain and Dannell Ellerbe were all undrafted free agents who thrived in Baltimore and eventually cashed in with big contracts" ,... ELSEWHERE!

Somehow this never has a happy ending for us! 

Now, don't go "Gotcha" and say, "Well, McClain blah, blah, blah,..."        You know what I meant about "Diamonds" walking away!

Maxx Williams may be #2 to Dennis Pitta to start, but I do not see Dennis finishing the year, healthy!

Really wish he would call it quits!

And, every year, we have a Super Bowl-caliber team (according to some fans    ) and then a strange thing happens --   ... and the regular season starts!

 A player can go 24 touchdowns and 4 picks in the playoffs versus good defenses and that last pick wipes away the previous 24 touchdowns. You obviously werent a fan of the ravens before flacco came along. You have a short memory.

I have, begrudgingly become a supporter of Joe because I have seen his growth over the years!

I do not judge his entire body of work on ONE PLAY!  I am merely illustrating why many do not see him in the Top 10 and that play was emblematic of why! 

Brady was facing a beat down secondary you.. Nevermind im not gonna go there and get another warning. Tim tebow could of torched our secondary. Flacco facing a top five secondary with revis, browner, arrington and butler. We had a practice squad rashaan melvin, safeties converted into corners and a lardarius webb still dealing with injuries, who continuously got picked on by every QB we faced! Please...just stop..

I have, begrudgingly become a supporter of Joe because I have seen his growth over the years!

I do not judge his entire body of work on ONE PLAY!  I am merely illustrating why many do not see him in the Top 10 and that play was emblematic of why! 

 

The last INT,... for the very reason you quoted because you know this, you DON'T throw the ball -- period!

Who can you get that's better?

 

This is pretty much my point, but I was recapping the last 5 years. 5 years far outweighs one play. Remember the 2011 AFC Championship game? NE was up 3, late in the 4th qtr, and Brady "took a deep shot" to seal the win, and Jimmy Smith picked it to keep our season alive. Is Brady an undisciplined qb?

 

 

You can blame Joe all you want, but it makes no sense to define him by 1 play. Otherwise, everyone would be a reckless, undisciplined qb, because you can cherry pick bad decisions from everyone. There is a huge difference between calling it a reckless play and calling Joe an undisciplined qb. The former is debatable; the latter is just ridiculous.

 

 

Let's say that Flacco made the worst, dumbest throw in NFL history. Are you honestly saying that 1 play negates all the great things he's done and takes him out of the top 10?

No, because that's not what happened. Smith never scored in that game, and the play that you're referring to was the 3rd qtr int, not the final one. 

 

Winning is what perennial winners do, and Flacco has won more games since he's been in the league than anyone, including Brady and Manning. He also has more playoff records than both of them combined, and he's done it with much less talent to throw to. Joe doesn't have all the accomplishments they do, but they don't have all the accomplishments Joe has, either. All of them are perennial winners. Sami was just making the same point that I was making. 1 play doesn't exclude anyone from the "perennial winner" list. Otherwise, that list would be blank.

 

Flacco has an uncanny ability to be aggressive without turning it over. It didn't work out once, but is has been a major factor in the Ravens' success. Nothing works out every time, no matter what you do.

I have, begrudgingly become a supporter of Joe because I have seen his growth over the years!

I do not judge his entire body of work on ONE PLAY!  I am merely illustrating why many do not see him in the Top 10 and that play was emblematic of why! 

We knew that before the game. It was win and we're in.  I'm talking about what happened during the game. Like too many FG's instead of TD's.

I like Natty Boh but... It's in your mind. We don't owe anybody. The Chiefs played their division rivals and beat them. We never mattered.

I wouldn't want the Steelers ever thinking they owe us a lifetime supply of Iron City Beer for us beating the Bengals in the same situation. Yuk. 

If I'm understanding this exchange, then I beg to differ, sir!

It was not "win and in" for us because San Diego owned the inside track over us having WON the head-to-head, ravenpic!

We definitely profited from the Chiefs' win over the Chargers!

When you are facing one of the best secondaries in the league, in the playoffs, with time tickng down, for potentially the win, and you have an open man down field, you take that shot --period! Thay safety made a good bait. Happens to manning, brady and all the other "elite" quarterbacks in the NFL. Torrey, as usual, gave up on the play. I guarantee thats part of the reason Joe and Torrey didnt have chemistry.

You do not!

When you have one of the top Secondaries down the field and you have scorched them on a play already, but you are picking up 1st Downs and methodically moving the ball with a shorter passing game and runs, NO you do not take the shot!

Didn't you hear the Corner say that they [the Pats] talked about that play after Smith scored on it earlier and how to cover it over and under w/o tipping the coverage,.. and Joe threw right into it?

Let me refresh you: "The revamped [Patriots'] defense also held up its end, twice picking off Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco, who hadn't turned the ball over in his previous five postseason outings." Ya don't throw that all-or-nothing ball! If anything, you throw a safe ball and nobody can convince me that it was a good call!

   So,... all you good folks hitting red minuses on my posts detailing my opinion why Joe isn't in the Top 10 conversation,... I don't mind,... but what's your explanations? 

That's not what perennial winners do? Like Manning did in the Mile High Miracle? Or Brady did the last couple times we beat them? I admit that last pass against the Patriots last year was a dumb play not only the way he executed it but the call itself but Flacco has proven time and time again he IS a perennial winner.

Sami, these guys are in their final years of illustrious careers as,... //cough//... perennial winners, one who has the SB jewelry to boast it and another who does not but has a ton of wins, MVP awards and records!

Joe has neither!       Maybe someday,... but, not today!

So Flacco throws 24 tds and 4ints in the postseason since 2010, and you pick out one of those 4 picks and say he's undisciplined? Really? No football "purist" would do that. There isn't a single coach or film study analyst who thinks Flacco is "undisciplined." He has been historically great at NOT TURNING THE BALL OVER in the postseason and winning in the postseason, which would be impossible if he wasn't disciplined. Jay Cutler isn't disciplined. Look at all the turnovers he gives away.

 

If that one play mean Flacco isn't a "perennial winner", then Brady and Manning aren't perennial winners either, because they have both thrown season ending picks, and neither of them have won as many games as Flacco since he's been in the league. Flacco has 4 consecutive postseasons with a TD/INT ratio of at least 3/1 which is more than the entire careers of Brady and Manning COMBINED. He recently snapped a record of consecutive postseason passes without an INT. But that one play, in a game where he was great overall, makes him undisciplined, and not a perennial winner? That's just laughable.

I'm speaking of one game where he went away from the smart play and took a shot and you're recapping a year! Apples & oranges, bud!

So, let me do a recap of the year! In a Playoff game that, thanks to the K.C. Chiefs, not Joe's expertise, we were lucky to be in, and Joe decided to take a shot and gambled the whole playoff season when he threw an ill-advised, high risk pass in a situation where the future of the whole team,... a group of men who will never, ever play again as a unit,... and who had a shot of going to the Super Bowl riding on it,... and got picked!

Blame Torrey for not fighting, Blame Lee Evans for cursing the End-Zone, but blame Joe for making a reckless decision? Oh No-o-o-o-o!

You have a valid point but who actually meets your criteria:

 

First and foremost, if you make it to the playoffs, somewhere along the way your qb won a game you were supposed to lose and won some games that you were supposed to win. So I don't know what that is even brought up. Especially since the Ravens were given no chance to go into Pittsburgh and beat the Steelers yet offensively and defensively the killed them. 

 

I don't know if you are basing your list off of last season or a qbs career but countless times we have seen Flacco put his team in position to win games.  The win in Denver is probably the most famous simply because no one thought he had the time to forge a comeback but he did it.  But there were diffidently others. The Housh TD in the last minute of the Pittsburgh game sticks out in my mind.  And some of the other top qbs are known to choke on an annual basis. Romo is probably the most famous for choking during the regular season.  But guys like Ryan and Manning seem to do it ever year in the playoffs.  

But if we are going off of last season alone there are a lot of examples of other qbs falling apart when the pressure was on.  Manning completely fell apart at the end of the season.  Luck looked terrible against the Patriots, and Rodgers had the Seahawks beat, and failed to hold that lead.  And if we are going to call out Flacco for his questionable throw you have to call out Wilson for his pass right to that corner.  At least if Smith had a chance of catching that ball.  There was no way Seattle was going to win with that pass.  

We could go back and analyze each game and find some we won but should have lost and vice versa,... but, once you make the playoffs, your entire team must out-play the other team!

In the Pats' game, Joe Flacco played well enough to win, but Brady feasted on our decidedly inept Secondary by a mixture of nebulous plays and by picking us apart!

Brady was the better man because he did what he needed to in order to win, while Joe, rather than exploiting our strength in the run and short games... being Joe,... he took a shot ... and we went home!  

Take a look at BOTH interceptions and tell me how hard Torrey Smith fought for the ball!

The last INT,... for the very reason you quoted because you know this, you DON'T throw the ball -- period!

I have argued over and over that the system is what hurts Flacco's rating more than anything else. We get ahead so we run, when the game is close we run then Flacco isn't throwing for 4000 yards because he doesn't have to. We wait until the fourth quarter if we are behind and then Joe throws it. Several games last year, one in particular I remember, we were on the 3 or 4 with over a minute left and we were blowing someone out so what did we do, we kneeled down. It is the nature of Ravens football. If we had a system where the running backs produce about 400 yards for a season, then Flacco would throw more but he doesn't because he doesn't have to. If Joe went to a pass hungry team like the Lions, he'd have 5000 yards. Flacco is better than his stats show and he gets credit for but if he takes us to the big game with all the other "superstars" gone, then they have to give Joe the credit. Unfortunately, its not about winning, its about throwing for 5500 yards and being 6-10. Sorry, give me Joe and a winning season over stats any day.

Fusuymada, I cut down much of your comment to the part that I take a bit of issue with! Sorry! I needed to make a point and I wasn't at issue with you entire comment!

"We get ahead so we run, when the game is close we run..."

In my world Joe Flacco is not inside the #10 mark ,... read closely....  simply because he doesn't win the games he's supposed to!

The Fantasy Footballers, [might be you], in MHO are the people who root for 4,000 yard games from QBs.

While the Football Purists [definitely me] root for games won that should be won and games won that normally wouldn't by QBs!

The Divisional Championship is a case in point: Joe Flacco beats Tom Brady in Brady's house for the second time in a playoff setting by driving the Ravens down the field and managing the clock expertly and thrusting the ball over the goal line with a QB Sneak or hand-off to Justin Forsett/the Juice,..... This scenario guarantees Joe's a Top 10 QB this year!

But, Joe Flacco drives the Ravens down to the 34 yard line of the Patriots, then, quote takes a shot,... throws an interception into the end-zone ending the Ravens' playoff run,...  That's not what perennial winners do!

This the way the undisciplined Joe Flacco continues to show that he doesn't have the PATIENCE to play his position to the point of stealing games the CW suggests he shouldn't win, like a Phillip Rivers playing us any and every time he does!  

"All but one of the 13 defensive linemen are 26 or younger. Chris Canty, 32, is the "old head" of the group!"

This is huge and bodes well for our continued success in the future!

With both Williams and Jernigan expected to reach their projected potentials and should Kapron-Lewis and Urban do the same, Oz will be hard pressed to keep them all,....

And as with every other year with the OLBs,... I, for one, will be [pleasantly] sad and angry!

In that situation, I think Joe's best option was to scramble for the first down. It's a 2nd and 5. He definitely has the speed, it's just lowkey because he barely does it. But I remember that first down he had in that Browns game on the game winning drive. He played safety in High School, you have to have speed for that. Still, Torrey Smith's lack of creating separation between McCourty and the ball was inexcusable, hence the reason he's no longer a Raven. Honestly, the game was over when we kicked the FG in the divisional round instead of trying to convert the 4th. We were not only one of the most aggressive teams to do so, we also had the most success with 4th down conversions this year. Same thing with that drive in the Chargers game where that 3rd down throw to Torrey failed. When I was in the stands that day, in my mind I'm saying "Don't kick the FG, convert the 4th". Worst case scenario, you fail. But you back the opposing team up in their own endzone. Increases the possibility of getting a game sealing pick 6. Even excluding that, Jacoby not being able to run the kickoff in for a score also hurt us. Then how he muffed the kickoff return after the Chargers scored the game winning field goal didn't help much more. They should've tried for a Flacco bomb instead of conservative "let's try to get a lengthy field goal here" strategy. That bomb has one games for us and won us that Bengal game this year, had the refs not called that obvious flop. I literally could write a book on the mistakes they made in that Chargers game, as if this post wasn't evident enough.

 Your reasoning in much of that is sound,... I'd tend to agree!

I'm an ol dawg and have shed a lot of my young dawg "piss & vinegar" for the comfort of the "tried & true"!

What I'm saying is if I have the "horses" to drive the ball down an opponent's throat, I don't want my QB "getting cute" for an ESPN Highlight Film throw - I want him to beat up the other team,... take their will to come back, to crush it while I dominate the clock and that team! 

You see, I'm a former BALTIMORE COLTS fan,... sorry!

Timmy Jernigan, 2017 DPOY 

    The thing I took away from the Chargers' game was a vivid lesson on how Joe needs to approach games in the closing minutes!

I still content that Joe's attempt at "taking the shot" in the Patriots Playoff game was a bad move! The resulting INT proves the above!

Had Joe taken a page from Phil Rivers rather than gone "Rogue Gunslinger", he had plenty of time to maneuver the ball down close to the End Zone and put the ball across the goal !

I was furious with that one play because it was reckless and cost us at least a shot at the AFC Championship!

I just hope he has learned that taking the shot is a viable play from the opening kick-off until the last quarter, but never, never, ever during the final drive if you NEED a score,... unless the Corner has fallen down or something like that! 

The depth was there, the injuries depleted it! Webb seems to have lost a step. He seems not as willing to make the big tackles too. This is all IMO. Have a great Father's day weekend Ravens Nation!

I don't see a thing wrong with what you've written!

I understand about the unsure officiating toward the hitting but it seemed our whole Secondary had gone from the fearsome unit of the Reed/Pollard/C.Williams era to a bunch of guys playing not to get hurt rather than with a wild abandon!

Say what you will, Harbs, about wanting a guy who plays "sound football", every team needs an "Enforcer" with some,... nay, lots of Bernie Pollard's DNA in his game! 

Heck,... once you've hit bottom,... been exposed as the "weak link" of an otherwish great team,... where can you go but UP!

Get mad,...     Lock en up      and BUCK UP !!! 

He's done after this season. He's the last of the big four and he obviously isn't handling it too well. He doesn't have anymore best friends left on the team. I understand where he is coming from. It's easier for a QB to accept all the changes every year but it's not that easy on your defensive stars especially when they start getting older and have millions in the bank. Love ya Sizz but just let the next young Sizzle play. Upshaw or one of the younger guys would be ecstatic to start on this defensive front and get to go hunt.

We're talking about a professional football player here, not no high school guy who's pining over his chum getting transferred or expelled!

I firmly believe that any melancholy may last a couple of practices but a soon as the whistle blows in September, T-Sizzle will relegate Haloti's memory to his "personal shelf" with Ray, Ed and Bernard!

This is extremely important,... to have these guys back for 2 years gives us an improved chance of having a dynamic running game, an effective unit!

A trade at this point is going to have the same devastating cap effect as a cut. It is something that is simply not an option for this year. 

 

So - since we can't let him go now, I think it is best to wait and see what he's got. Also, I know this is a business, but I think we need to show some organizational faith in him, if he's working to come back. If we don't think he's ready, he goes to IR. If he's ready (which I still don't think will be the case - certainly not game 1), then we may find a injury that requires Boyle to go to IR if we think it is too great a risk to put him on the PS. 

A trade give us another draft pic, unlikely but maybe two late picks! And, balfan, I'm surprised at you! What is "organizational faith"? You can either play the game at a pro level or you cannot - that's a fan perspective not a FO perspective and not something I would have expected from you, man!

This year's a wash, financially, already, and gathering another future trade,... hey, it's the "Boldin" thing to do!

Matt Schaub at 33 is not an old QT. He should not be included in the group of aging veterans. Schaub could/can play, staying healthy, another seven or eight years with good O Line protection. Quarterbacks can play into their forties.

TRUE,... very true! 

Plus, we want Joe to be just midway into hitting his stride when he's 33 years old,... not shuffled off to be someone's Back-up!

He's been getting better at playing his position, understanding his strengths and limitations better!

The INT he threw to end our drive in Foxborough was NOT the play a smart, seasoned QB makes no matter how some folks like to explain it away as sound!

Cry, "HAVOC", and let slip the    of gridiron war!