riseNConquer81

9 hours ago, RavensBaltimore said:

The 2k Ravens did not go 8-8. They went 12-4 and won the SB.

that was the wrong record, and i know we won the superbowl.
point stands either way. 

1 hour ago, Ravensfansince03 said:

2 hours ago, Purple Dawg 96 said:

  3 hours ago, The Greek said:

we have absolutely nothing on offense that would strike fear into any defense until proven otherwise. players need to play hungry and step up and the off coaching staff needs to know how to utilize what they have

We have Joe Flacco that can strike fear in teams "BUT" the bad play calling kills us every time! Teams expect to see that arm but the run on 1st and 2nd pass on 3rd and punt makes it easy for teams to figure out and then they know when to blow up the O line and rattle Joe! WRs need to play decoy and get the ball to our arsenal of TEs like brady and big ben are doing! No secondary can cover our TEs down field! THEY 2 BIG!

Ok, first things first...Flacco does not strike fear in any defense. If Flacco strikes fear in defense, then what do you call a guy like Rodgers or Brady doing to opposing defenses. I will say this, opposing defenses know Flacco is capable of throwing it deep, and that he can pull of a good drive here and there.

But the fact is, Flacco is very predictable, he does not call audibles when the play is so obvious, and he is inconsistent. I guess you forgot the games where he threw handful of interceptions, making average defenses look like the Ravens 2000 defense.

Flacco doesnt strike fear into defenses because they know his o line is made of pipe cleaners and he has no one to throw to.

I call Rodgers in the same boat. I call all quarterbacks in the same boat actually, especially Brady: who i call  "mr pick and lateral" and just plain overrated.

Got even better offenses AND added to their defense? imagine that! whodathunkit!

of course he's not done adding players, he's just done adding USEFUL players...because there arent any of them left unless you're trading.

yeah, sounds very familiar. sounds like an 8-8 team hoping for a conference weak enough to actually let them in the playoffs and attempt to manufacture a miracle with nothing but a good defense and a kicker....

you cant play like this anymore, it wont work. the 2K ravens averaged TEN points allowed per game. JUST 10. you'll never pull that off in this league again.

Feels like the guard in the front office is going to have to change soon.
Ozzie never does a bad job, but he cant put together an offense, he's not even trying anymore, and we cant win without one.
That's not going to work.

13 hours ago, J.O.14 said:

You're so opinionated you're ridiculous. Of course all QBs have great supporting casts, but if you say Brady isn't an all time great because of his supporting cast then you are saying there isn't a great QB. I enjoy how you attack people on this site when you know nothing about their football knowledge and try to make your opinions sound like facts. You have done or said anything to make me change my stance on the fact that I know and that is Brady is a great QB. If you want to look at individual stats, do it. Go look at how good Brady is every season. Also, if his weapons are so great, do  you think Gronk would be who he is if he played for anyone else? Maybe a select few QBs could help Gronk produce the way he does. What about Edelman or Amendola? Heck even Hogan. I guess by your standards, Montana, Steve Young, Manning, etc aren't all time greats because of their supporting cast....

Everyone's opinionated. people who dont have opinions about things arent normal. not sure what your point is supposed to be.

I said "Tom Brady is overrated." 
I see the age old problem of posters randomly translating things i ACTUALLY say into fictitious things i NEVER said, has not subsided after all this time i've been away.

I didnt attack anybody on this site. I expressed a viewpoint and responded to failed criticism of said viewpoint. 
you must be talking about all those parrots who keep saying things like "your credibility is shot" because they otherwise cant come up with a decent argument....

i dont make my opinons sound like facts, i use facts to support my opinion. I understand how that concept confuses you, the majority of posters here don't often engage in that practice.

Do i think a 6'6, 256 tight end with Receiver speed woul be great if he played for anyone else...hmmmm, let me think about that for a minute.
lmao, you cant be serious. So what, you're telling me that Gronokowski is the only successful Tight End in the league?
What about Gronk makes you think that he cant be a good player unless noodle armed Brady is throwing deflated balls at him? i'd love to hear the rationale behind that asinine theory.

The only difference between Chris Hogan with the Bills and Chris Hogan with the Patriots. is about 200 yards, and the only reason for that is the Patriots not having a Lesean McCoy or Mike Gillislee. His number are pretty much the same, so according to you: since Chris Hogan apparently has no talent and his Quarterback is responsible for his numbers and his numbers with Brady match his numbers from the Bills, Tyrod Taylor must now necessarily be considered an "all time great."
That doesnt sound like it makes a whole lot of sense now does it? I dont think i can give you a more glaring example of the flaws in your reasoning than that. 

23 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

which is where safeties come in... you dont have to leave him on an island 1v1

there are only two routes on the tree that go into safety territory. Going deep isnt the only way to beat a corner. 
Range is a concern if Jefferson and Weddle are going to be starting, so i dont expect to see any safeties dropping into passing lanes down low. probably a lot of conservative looking coverage which leaves guys plenty of room to shake and bake or pick Carr off. 

i dont get what you people are arguing about. 
he's not a terrible cornerback, but he's not at all great either. 

As long as Jimmy and Tavon are on the field, they'll be picking on Carr. He's an average talent that can be exploited. 

On 3/17/2017 at 7:49 AM, J.O.14 said:

On 3/17/2017 at 1:41 AM, riseNConquer81 said:

it wasn't absurd at all.
What's absurd is you casual fans continually giving Brady credit for Branch, Gronkowksi, Bennett, Edelman, Vereen, Hernandez, Moss, Welker, Lewis, Lloyd, etc's work and pretending they have no talent.

Brady hardly ever works with a non great receiver...your definition of "great" is something ridiculous, rare combination of traits that hardly anybody ever has.

There are plenty of QBs that dont rely on after catch yardage as their sole means of production. Take your Brady blinders off and look around the league. Go ahead and show me ONE game where Joe Flacco threw 23 passes for 5 yards or less, including 6 behind the line of scrimmage, and left the game with 466 yards and 2 TDs. I will wait sir. 

i respect tom brady just fine. big difference between me and you is you respect him as some mythical football god that he's never been, and i respect him for what he actually is: an over-achieving 6th rounder in a great system, surrounded by lots of talent who knows all he has to do is protect the ball and let his teammates be great to get the W.
 
It's good that you're asking questions though, that's exactly how you learn better than the delusional fiction you're arguing right now. applause for that.

To say he over-achieved is insane. Systems are built for the QB, and Brady excels in the system he is in, by being the best QB in football. You also say that he can't throw the ball down the field, are you serious? Why do you think Gronk is so effective? Did you watch the deep balls he threw to Moss, the seam routes he hit Welker, Edelman, and Hogan on. I hate playing the Patriots because I know there is a great chance we are going to lose, and its not because of the playmakers they supposedly have, its because of Brady.

He makes WRs better, it's not like they make Tom Brady. You're still denying what he does as a QB and I guess you didn't look at the facts correctly....His career record is also 183-52. His PLAYOFF record is 25-9. Overall, 208-61. 5-2 in SBs. Haven't they been to 6 straight AFC championship games? Heck it might be 7. That isn't delusional fiction...that just proves he wins. If he continues to stay healthy, he will surpass every record in the book. He should have been the MVP of the league this past season. I guess all those wins were from those "playmakers" or amazing WRs that he has had. Ohh, here comes the argument about "well if he wasn't in the system he is in blah blah blah." Yeah he protects the ball, like great QBs. He gets the ball out quick, because its an effective game plan. How many times have we heard, "Flacco needs to get the ball out quicker!", He doesn't make bad decisions, he adjust his blitz pickups and finds mismatches. He also wins, which if I'm not mistaken, is pretty important in regards to how great you are...

Since you're so knowledgeable or think you are, you define what a great QB is and show me an all time great that didn't have a good supporting cast surrounding them? I will wait sir. Because everything you said didn't diminish what Tom Brady is, and that is one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest.

no its not.
he was picked in the 6th round.
His career is now 17 years old and includes 5 superbowl wins.
that's the definition of overachieving. You dont go to the 6th round to pick a 17 year starter to win 5 trophies with.
Do you people even english?

and yes i have watched Gronk and Moss beat up DBs and linebackers in mid air to snatch Tom Brady's wobbly and woefully underthrown "deep balls" and turn those disasters into positive yardage and/or points. 
Clearly you havent noticed Brady all but stopped throwing deep balls after Moss left.
2007 and 2009, Brady throws 60+ deep balls both seasons.
2010, Brady's deep ball count drops to 30 and change, lol.
not coincidence. 

[blah blah blah blah, same cliche nonsense arguments about things the Patriots achieved that im tired of responding to]
He gets the ball out quick because his receivers are the ones doing all the work anyway, that's how the offense is designed.
You complain about Joe Flacco not getting the ball out fast because if Joe Flacco dumps the ball behind the line of scrimmage 6 times like Brady does, we just punt out of our own endzone...because we dont have receivers that do what Brady's do.
If you mean to argue that Brady is such a great INDIVIDUAL player, it might help if your arguments aren't entirely founded on TEAM stats.
*skips to the last paragraph*

There is no all time great that doesnt have a good supporting cast around him which is the foundation of my point. thats why i laugh when people like you come around talking about how Tom Brady has no talent on his team and he single handedly makes all the other players good.
lmao you're hilarious. You're talking in so many circle, you're sitting here asking me rhetorical questions that literally destroy your own arguments. cool story bro, good job champ.

On 3/17/2017 at 9:28 AM, YorkCountyRaven said:

On 3/16/2017 at 1:18 AM, riseNConquer81 said:

  On 3/15/2017 at 11:33 PM, YorkCountyRaven said:

On 3/15/2017 at 7:06 PM, riseNConquer81 said:

  On 3/15/2017 at 7:02 PM, thesteve53006 said:

For those saying "Its only a 6th round pick" Adalius Thomas #186, Tyrod Taylor #180, these are Ravens picks.  Other players include Colston, Garcon, Antonio Brown, Tom Brady, Greg Hardy. There is value in the 6th, i would rather have an earlier pick in the 6th than a later, plus this way it cleared up more cap than making him a cap casualty.

Tyrod Taylor is a middling starter. 
Tom Brady is overrated. 
Greg Hardy isnt in the league anymore because he has trouble keeping his hands to himself. 
Pierre Garcon is a career sidekick receiver. 

There's not that much value in the 6th. thats why its the 6th. 

Negative Nancy alert.... Saying Tom Brady is overrated is like credibility suicide within football talk. The fact of the matter is Zuttah wasn't what we wanted at center and we got what we could for him in order to free up cap space. We received way too much pressure up the middle of the offensive line, and obviously Ozzie has plans in the future. You can get great unexpected value in the 6th round, we play against a man named Antonio Brown 2 times a year incase you didn't realize..... AKA the highest paid WR in football.

No it's not.
Saying Tom Brady is overrated shows i actually pay attention to and understand football, as opposed to casually following the crowd.
Tom Brady's a game manager that relies on playmaking after the catch to produce. always has been, always will be.

and since youre the 23874932743902743209742094th person to bring up [insert favorite rare high level player from the 6th roudn here], I'll go ahead and point out that Antonio Brown was pick number 195. Everybody's other favorite example, Brady, was #199. That actually only further proves my point that moving up 12 spots in the 6th round doesnt really mean or do much. If anything, you're better off keeping 198, according to the trend.

Regardless of where it is, a 6th round pick is a crap shoot. its hard to argue that moving up or back in the 6th round dramatically increases or decreases the value of the pick.
so like i said before, the net effect of this trade is essentially the same as if we cut him.

OK but YOU are still missing the point. Zuttah was not what our team wanted at the center position, we received wayyyyy too much pressure up the middle of the oline in passing situations Zuttah can not handle big, physical nose tackles.... Joe was extremely hesitant on any pressure coming up the middle. So... with that being said. What is your problem with getting something from a player we were going to cut?!? Also, Tom Brady who holds records for QB's in most categories is a game manager? Like I said, credibility suicide. Tom Brady literally turns average talent into top tier talent. He makes everyone around him play better... that is much more than a Game manager. You are just extremely opinionated and biased towards things that cloud your judgement.

I'm not missing any point.
I know we need a better center.

Didnt think i needed to restate the obvious in order to make the completely separate point that we didnt get much out of that trade.

i dont consider a minor reshuffling of our position in the 6th round to be "something" for the reason i previously explained to you. i dont think thats difficult to understand.

Tom Brady takes advantage of great talent, he doesnt turn anything into anything. when he actually has nothing but average talent to work with, he himself is average. your definition of "average" is ridiculous. How ironic you want to tell me i'm "biased" when you literally wont give anybody Tom Brady has ever played with any credit for their own talent.
Refusing to follow the uninformed popular opinion doesnt make me biased, it makes me autonomous.

Also im really tired of hearing about how you and a few other people (out of the 320 million plus in teh country) think my credibility is supposedly shot. I dont care, and that dumb ad hominem is not a substitute for a valid point. get new material.

  On 3/17/2017 at 1:29 AM, riseNConquer81 said:

it makes perfect sense, you illustrated the point in your very next sentence, lmao.

Tom Brady has 5 rings because of awful rules and great playmakers that cover up the fact that he can't deliver the ball down field. His receivers are not and never have been mediocre at all.

(not every good receiver goes to the pro bowl, and not making it to the hall of fame doesnt mean you're totally talentless. i know those dumb arguments are coming next)

Brady is not a 1 man wrecking crew. If Brady hadn't caught on with the Patriots, he'd more than likely be a journey man who got the chance to start late in his career, played decent for a few seasons, and retired...maybe with a ring or two if he happened to get on with the right team.
He's better than a 6th round pick, but nothing incredibly special.

Congratulations. Nobody on this site will ever take you seriously in a football conversation, ever. 0 credibility my friend.

doesnt bother me much when people who dont know anything about football dont take me seriously. They're doing that because they dont know anything about football. so you'll have to excuse my lack of concern. :)

On 3/17/2017 at 3:46 PM, reed20 said:

On 3/17/2017 at 1:54 AM, riseNConquer81 said:

dont need "elite" receivers to win, you people really need to let go of that silly word. That word doesnt even have a real definition, its mostly just a vague and arbitrary description you use for people you've decided to favor for any number of random criteria. it doesnt mean anything.

Brady typically has a much larger collection of "decent mediocre" receivers  than any other QB in the leauge. Most teams have 1 star (if they're lucky), 1 or maybe 2 decent guys, and then a bunch of dudes they hope they never have to put on the field. 
Brady does not ever have that problem. 

Elite is defined as:

" A select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society. "

 

Sounds to me like theres a real definition for it that is accurately applied to football.

 

i know the word has an actual definition.

The word as used by football fans (especially the ones around here) does not.
whatever definition you people use, it certainly isnt the one you've written here, because you guys swear dudes like Julian Edleman and Wes Welker dont count, yet you cant come up with any other 5'9" slot receivers with 4.65 40 speed who put up 1500 yards in a single season. Definitely sounds like someone "superior in terms of abilities or qualities to the rest of a group" to me.

dont let these facts stand in the way of your tireless efforts to contradict yourselves though.

In any case, it's totally beside my point either way. Like i said: elite or not, Brady has way more reliable targets on the field than pretty much every other QB at all times.

thanks for input though.

8 minutes ago, hen826957 said:

Lol... whatever you say bro, his receivers are good but not elite level that's why l said "decent mediocre" just like us.  I might don't agree with your argument, but that's your opinion about Brady so l just leave it at that.  

dont need "elite" receivers to win, you people really need to let go of that silly word. That word doesnt even have a real definition, its mostly just a vague and arbitrary description you use for people you've decided to favor for any number of random criteria. it doesnt mean anything.

Brady typically has a much larger collection of "decent mediocre" receivers  than any other QB in the leauge. Most teams have 1 star (if they're lucky), 1 or maybe 2 decent guys, and then a bunch of dudes they hope they never have to put on the field. 
Brady does not ever have that problem. 

18 hours ago, J.O.14 said:

On 3/16/2017 at 0:56 AM, riseNConquer81 said:

On 3/15/2017 at 11:57 PM, reed20 said:

Tom Brady has 5 rings, dude.

So does Robert Kraft. 
what's your point?

His point is that Robert Kraft has those rings because of Tom Brady. That was an absurd comment. Look at Brady's career stats and wins. He is 39 years old and just threw for over 3,500 yards, 28 TDs, and 2 INTs....in 12 games. He is also second for the most 4th quarter comebacks of all time with 39. Did you not watch the superbowl?

You also said he relies on his playmaking after the catch. What QB doesn't? It's not like he had great WRs. Edelman, Hogan, Amendola? Gronk missed the entire post season and look what he still accomplished. When he does have a legit number 1 WR like Moss he just breaks records and goes 16-0...that's all.

His career record is also 183-52. His PLAYOFF record is 25-9. Overall, 208-61. 5-2 in SBs. I dislike Tom Brady, but you have to respect the guy.

That comment made me question your football intelligence.

it wasn't absurd at all.
What's absurd is you casual fans continually giving Brady credit for Branch, Gronkowksi, Bennett, Edelman, Vereen, Hernandez, Moss, Welker, Lewis, Lloyd, etc's work and pretending they have no talent.

Brady hardly ever works with a non great receiver...your definition of "great" is something ridiculous, rare combination of traits that hardly anybody ever has.

There are plenty of QBs that dont rely on after catch yardage as their sole means of production. Take your Brady blinders off and look around the league. Go ahead and show me ONE game where Joe Flacco threw 23 passes for 5 yards or less, including 6 behind the line of scrimmage, and left the game with 466 yards and 2 TDs. I will wait sir. 

i respect tom brady just fine. big difference between me and you is you respect him as some mythical football god that he's never been, and i respect him for what he actually is: an over-achieving 6th rounder in a great system, surrounded by lots of talent who knows all he has to do is protect the ball and let his teammates be great to get the W.
 
It's good that you're asking questions though, that's exactly how you learn better than the delusional fiction you're arguing right now. applause for that.

  On 3/16/2017 at 1:04 AM, riseNConquer81 said:

its not, and i shouldnt have. 
the fact that your first and only argument to the contrary is an ad hominem attack pretty much belies your point. 
if it was so "idiotic," you'd have a more intelligent response than that.
thanks for playing though.

You're right.  "Idiotic" wasn't a very intelligent response.  Shoulda' said "moronic."

you actually shouldn't have said anything at all. that's what people lacking substantial arguments are supposed to do. ;)

14 hours ago, hen826957 said:

On 3/16/2017 at 0:56 AM, riseNConquer81 said:

  On 3/15/2017 at 11:57 PM, reed20 said:

Tom Brady has 5 rings, dude.

So does Robert Kraft. 
what's your point?

This doesn't make any sense. Robert Kraft has 5 rings because of Tom Brady. This statement would be correct if Robert Kraft has 5 rings without Brady. As much as I dislike Brady, he keeping winning year in and year out with decent mediocre wrs. I agree with J.O. 14.

it makes perfect sense, you illustrated the point in your very next sentence, lmao.

Tom Brady has 5 rings because of awful rules and great playmakers that cover up the fact that he can't deliver the ball down field. His receivers are not and never have been mediocre at all.

(not every good receiver goes to the pro bowl, and not making it to the hall of fame doesnt mean you're totally talentless. i know those dumb arguments are coming next)

Brady is not a 1 man wrecking crew. If Brady hadn't caught on with the Patriots, he'd more than likely be a journey man who got the chance to start late in his career, played decent for a few seasons, and retired...maybe with a ring or two if he happened to get on with the right team.
He's better than a 6th round pick, but nothing incredibly special.

  2 hours ago, Vitalvicious said:

I wouldn't consider this an upgrade. This guy is not good I'm sorry!

Why do you say that?

Is it because he held OBJ to 73 yards & 94 yards? Or is because he held AJ Green to 50 yards (0 TDs)? Or maybe because he held Mike Evans to 59 yards (0 TDs)? Then it must be Alshon Jeffery's 70 yards & 0 TDs? Jordy Nelson's 68 yards & 0 TDs?

Yeah, that guy is no good....

These arent really impressive performances. I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

certainly against these kinds of talents, the damage couldve been worse, but 70+ yards is still a lot. Giving up that kind of space is nothing to brag about.

4 hours ago, Tiznut said:

7 hours ago, riseNConquer81 said:

dont know, dont care. doesnt matter.

6th round pick is a 6th round pick. The 6th is not a round where there's any value in trading places with someone unless there's somebody that fell dramatically for some odd reason.

Those 12 spots didnt change the value of that pick in any significant way.

If you don't care you wouldn't respond. You not knowing is obvious 

that doesn't make any sense.
and of course i dont know, nobody does. your question doesnt really have an answer, or any relevance to the point for that matter. 

1 hour ago, YorkCountyRaven said:

6 hours ago, riseNConquer81 said:

  6 hours ago, thesteve53006 said:

For those saying "Its only a 6th round pick" Adalius Thomas #186, Tyrod Taylor #180, these are Ravens picks.  Other players include Colston, Garcon, Antonio Brown, Tom Brady, Greg Hardy. There is value in the 6th, i would rather have an earlier pick in the 6th than a later, plus this way it cleared up more cap than making him a cap casualty.

Tyrod Taylor is a middling starter. 
Tom Brady is overrated. 
Greg Hardy isnt in the league anymore because he has trouble keeping his hands to himself. 
Pierre Garcon is a career sidekick receiver. 

There's not that much value in the 6th. thats why its the 6th. 

Negative Nancy alert.... Saying Tom Brady is overrated is like credibility suicide within football talk. The fact of the matter is Zuttah wasn't what we wanted at center and we got what we could for him in order to free up cap space. We received way too much pressure up the middle of the offensive line, and obviously Ozzie has plans in the future. You can get great unexpected value in the 6th round, we play against a man named Antonio Brown 2 times a year incase you didn't realize..... AKA the highest paid WR in football.

No it's not.
Saying Tom Brady is overrated shows i actually pay attention to and understand football, as opposed to casually following the crowd.
Tom Brady's a game manager that relies on playmaking after the catch to produce. always has been, always will be.

and since youre the 23874932743902743209742094th person to bring up [insert favorite rare high level player from the 6th roudn here], I'll go ahead and point out that Antonio Brown was pick number 195. Everybody's other favorite example, Brady, was #199. That actually only further proves my point that moving up 12 spots in the 6th round doesnt really mean or do much. If anything, you're better off keeping 198, according to the trend.

Regardless of where it is, a 6th round pick is a crap shoot. its hard to argue that moving up or back in the 6th round dramatically increases or decreases the value of the pick.
so like i said before, the net effect of this trade is essentially the same as if we cut him.

5 hours ago, whobilly said:

Tom Brady is over rated? That is the most idiotic statement that has ever been posted on any NFL team site. You should have stopped at the Tyrod comment.

its not, and i shouldnt have. 
the fact that your first and only argument to the contrary is an ad hominem attack pretty much belies your point. 
if it was so "idiotic," you'd have a more intelligent response than that.
thanks for playing though.

4 hours ago, hen826957 said:

"Tom Brady is overrated" huh... l'm scratching my head on that statement. Are you sure you didn't accidentally wrote that statement by accident?

argue otherwise without bringing up rings.

58 minutes ago, reed20 said:

Tom Brady has 5 rings, dude.

So does Robert Kraft. 
what's your point?

5 hours ago, Mahatma_Sloth said:

rise must be fun to take to parties

i am. 
what's that got to do with this though?

2 minutes ago, thesteve53006 said:

For those saying "Its only a 6th round pick" Adalius Thomas #186, Tyrod Taylor #180, these are Ravens picks.  Other players include Colston, Garcon, Antonio Brown, Tom Brady, Greg Hardy. There is value in the 6th, i would rather have an earlier pick in the 6th than a later, plus this way it cleared up more cap than making him a cap casualty.

Tyrod Taylor is a middling starter. 
Tom Brady is overrated. 
Greg Hardy isnt in the league anymore because he has trouble keeping his hands to himself. 
Pierre Garcon is a career sidekick receiver. 

There's not that much value in the 6th. thats why its the 6th. 

15 minutes ago, PersianRaven said:

1 hour ago, riseNConquer81 said:

  2 hours ago, sami said:

we were gonna save 3.5 million and get pick 198 but now becuz of the wisdom of Ozzie we save 5.8 millon and get pick number 186.

5.8 over the next two seasons. its the same as releasing. we didnt get anything extra, we just moved up 12 spots in a nearly irrelevant round .

Irrelevant round huh? Why don't you google 6th round picks from the year 1999-2016 and you might changed your mind.

If you think you're going to be the first person to tell me that the likes of Tom Brady, Marques Colston, T.J. Houshmandzadah, and a handful of other good players hail from the 6th round, i am sorry to disappoint you. I have had this conversation many more times than you;ve even thought about it, i promise you.

and no, that doesnt change my mind, it just proves my point.
6th round picks rarely pan out into much more than special teamers and practice squadders.