sflegend89

I looked for QB hurry stats and couldn't find them when making this thread. Perhaps available to someone with PFF subscription. 

Look, the disparity is still glaring just with the available major stats. The hurries would give us a total picture though so I welcome anyone that can post a source and not just hear-say.

Just now, Moderator 3 said:

No merge from me (for now). This one is different from the not practicing and the rather have threads.  If it morphs into "rather have" it will get merged, though.  I just ask that you try to be more original than "he sucks, bench him".  That's old and not productive.

Co-sign this. Thread was made to analyze Joe's performance, account for circumstances, and be honest about where he currently stands in the landscape of starting NFL QB's. 

I ask that this doesn't devolve into a low brow hate thread. As I've stated I'm a long time supporter and fan of Joe.

6 minutes ago, GhostofGrbac said:

I'm sure this will be merged. Some people can't handle the truth on here. They'd rather burry it in an existing thread. 

I don't doubt it. I couldn't be anything further from a Flacco hater either, I've stood up for him through every cycle of criticism he's faced up to this point. 

But I think being honest is important, I never expect him to wow with his stats, but his play is so astronomically bad this year that it must be acknowledged, you can see it in his mechanics and body language, the stats just give you a complimentary set of data for it.

Joe Flacco: 12th most sacked QB, sacked 14 times, 5 TD's, 6 INT's, 75.4 QBR

Andrew Luck: 1st most sacked QB, sacked 25 times, 14 TD's, 4 INT's, 98.3 QBR

Matt Ryan: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 16 TD's, 4 INT's, 113.6 QBR

Matthew Stafford: Tied for 3rd most sacked QB, sacked 18 times, 15 TD's, 4 INT's, 105.7 QBR

Philip Rivers: 6th most sacked QB, Sacked 17 times, 13 TD'S, 4 INT's, 102.4 QBR

Facts:

- Joe Flacco has the 29th worst QBR in the NFL 

- Andrew Luck has been sacked NEARLY TWICE as much as Joe Flacco yet is dominating him in every statistical category, Colts have what many feel is worst OL in football

- Only other QB's besides Flacco in entire NFL with negative TD-INT ratio are Case Keenum and Ryan Fitzpatrick

 

Enough excuses for Joe, I'm a long time supporter of his even through rough patches but this is different. This year so far he's not elite... not average... not even below average, he's amongst the very worst starting QB's in the entire NFL. Everything from his mechanics, to his accuracy, to his overall passing stats tell us so. Guys like Rivers have comparable weapons/OL and are blowing him out of the water.

 

Pointing to Denver as a reason to not give McDaniels a HC job is like pointing to Houston as a reason not to give Kubiak a HC job.

His tenure in Houston was widely considered a massive failure at the time and he was despised by Texans fans. Yet there he was hoisting a Lombardi trophy after spending time as an OC again and learning from his mistakes.

McDaniels has been learning under the greatest coach in NFL history since then and his offense is a juggernaut despite having an average at best OL. We would be lucky to have him if in fact Harbs loses control of this season and get's the boot on black Monday.

McDaniels by seasons end will be similar to Jim Harbaugh's HC availability with multiple teams vying for his services.

The passion/killer instict argument is such a facade. Likely from people that think this is a hollywood movie and not professional sports. 

Talent + Good Coaching = success

Our talent that we paid big bucks for (Flacco especially, Webb, Pitta, Doom, Suggs to an extent) aren't giving us so much as a fraction of a return for all the cap space they take up and the coaching has been suspect on top of that.

The result is a poor product on the field. Other teams are getting a return on the players they spent big on. We aren't, then you factor in coaching. We don't need a locker room speech from Willie Beamen, we need players we pay to be elite to actually produce up to their contracts. 

49 minutes ago, sami said:

The Steelers are one game ahead of us. Yeah, theyre tearing up the league.

Let's revisit this at the end of the year shall we? They've just played a tougher schedule thus far and still have a better record. I've seen most of their games in their entirety and they are a much better team than us. They still have the best WR and RB in football and a borderline elite QB.

I hate the Steelers as much as anyone but they have clearly surpassed us. They're a team with enough talent to make some noise in the playoffs. 

33 minutes ago, whobilly said:

10 Qb's are currently making 20 mill plus, 2 making 19 mill plus, 5 making 18 mill plus, 3 making 17 mill plus. Its a QB driven league BUT a team game. Most of the QB's on this list would be having a difficult task playing behind what well could be the WORST O Line in the league.

Enough with the excuses for Flacco. He's been abysmal this year, QB's that have taken more hits than him this year have outplayed him and then some. Matt Ryan is the 3rd most sacked QB in the NFL and he's still lighting it up. Andrew Luck is the #1 MOST sacked QB in the NFL and has almost 3x more TD passes (14 to 5). Not to mention a vastly superior TD-INT ratio (14-4 to 5-6). Flacco isn't even top 10 in most sacked.

Flacco has more INT's than TD's, want to know what kind of company he's in for TD-INT ratio? Case Keenum, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Blaine Gabbert. We're paying 22M this year for a guy producing in a company of the most mediocre starting QB's in the NFL and one of them outplayed him yesterday on top of that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Has nothing to do with effort or killer instinct. The most plausible explanation is that we aren't a very good team. Other team's aren't paying 22M at QB and getting bottom 10 production and efficiency for that amount of money. Other team's have made more effective use of their cap space/draft picks and in turn have a better chance at winning on Sunday. 

Other teams don't have 4 different OC's in the span of 3 years. No more excuses, time for those responsible for the poor product on the field to take accountability. The players are busting their butts on Sunday, it's not a matter of effort.

lol @ down voting McDaniels. At this rate we would be lucky if he was willing to leave NE to take the job here at the end of tne season if things keep going like they have. Multiple teams will be in on him.

I'm not even convinced he would take the job if we offered him after this season, he'll get multiple offers. Yet people think he's not good enough despite  currently being at the helm of most efficient offense in the NFL , one that squeezes every bit of talent out of every player at his disposal. Some of that is Billichick absolutely, but it's down right unfair to not give McDaniels his due since he left Denver. He'll be the hottest HC name in the NFL by seasons end. 

I'm all for poaching McDaniels from NE this offseason. Kills two birds with one stone. Replaces Harbaugh who is more of a rah rah leadership driven coach with a cerebral, high football IQ, tactical coach which is what this roster needs.

Then we also get the best OC in the business to overhaul and modernize our offensive system. We desperately need to improve on offense and McDaniels is just what the doctor ordered. He's seen how Bellichick manages a team and will definitely bring that mentality with him when he get's anothet go at being a HC.

I think he fits our needs to a T.

2 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

This team had how many starters missing the last 2 games? They are heading into a bye hoping to get those starters back, especially on the oline. They are entering into a game vs Steelers that no matter what the Bengals do next week will have 1st place of the North on the line. The Ravens have a current 3 game winning streak vs the Steeler and have won 4 of the last 5. So even though things seem bad right now, this team shouldn't be thinking about quitting. 

I appreciate the positivity but at a certain point we have to be real about who we are. Record wise it's still early and the rest of the division has struggled. But looking at the product on the field I just don't think there is any hope of salvaging this season, that's not pessimism, that's just brutal objective honesty.

When I watch other teams it doesn't even look like we're playing the same game, particularly on offense, it's beyond pedestrian and predictable. I subscribe to the definition of insanity here, doing the same thing week in week out and expecting different results.

We already fired an OC, there's only so much change and adjusting that can occur at this point in a season. Getting healthy will help our cause but expecting new results after weeks of incompetence is a fruitless endeavor. I believe in this organization, it's a dark time at the moment and we have to stick it out for now.

Same boat as last year. You never TRY to tank, but as a fan I hope we pretty much lose out. We aren't a good team, bottom line. We need a major overhaul, major overhaul starts with high draft picks and more cap space. 

It's SB or bust, we aren't even in the same hemisphere as a playoff team, let alone a SB team. Stanley was a big piece for us to get long term, we need another big time 1st round pick this year.

The scary thing is last year we were confident we had a franchise QB for the foreseeable future. I'm a long time Flacco supporter but I think him and Harbaugh jumped the shark. Don't be surprised if we take a QB in round 2 or 3. Try to find the next Derek Carr or Dak Prescott. Even if they have to sit next year behind Flacco.

30 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Why doesn't Jimmy Smith count as a play maker? Terrence West had over 100+ yards rushing averaging over 4.0 yards per carry but isn't considered a play maker?   Why isn't CJ Mosley not considered a play maker he has 3 interceptions and has been great overall?

Jimmy Smith is a good corner but you can't call him a playmaker, doesn't get many picks and hasn't been consistently good enough in coverage to be considered a shutdown guy. Marcus Peters is a guy who creates a lot of turnovers and Sherman is a guy who locks down his side of the field. Don't think Jimmy is quite in that tier.

West has only started a handful of games, he's flashed potential but you can't put him in the same class as a single back I listed with such a limited track record. I didn't even list Zeke Elliott who is the current NFL rushing leader because it's too early. Mosley is the one guy you named in the conversation. But I do think having an offensive playmaker is what we're missing the most.

Eric Decosta echoed a lot of what I'm saying last offseason. It's no secret to Ozzie and Eric that we're behind the 8 ball when it comes to game changing individual players compared to a lot of the league right now. When the pressure is on late in games we do it by committee, we don't have that Odell type of player we can lean on.

To me this is one of the biggest reasons why we've lost so many close games these last 2 years. We don't have a true playmaker on either side of the ball. The closest we have is SSS but at this stage of his career he shows up in spurts. We got an up close look at how these types of players impact games by facing Odell. How many times did Eli look his way in big moments and know he could count on him? We need a player like that. Haven't had one since Boldin left and Suggs was still in his prime.

 

Dallas Cowboys: Dez Bryant & Witten

New England Patriots: Gronk & Edelman

Denver Broncos: Miller/Thomas/Talib

Pittsburgh Steerlers: Brown & Bell

Cincinnati Bengals: AJ Green

Minnesota Vikings: Adrian Peterson

New York Giants: Odell Beckham Jr.

Seattle Seahawks: L.O.B.

Oakland Raiders: Amari Cooper & Mack

Green Bay Packers: Nelson & Cobb

LA Rams: Todd Gurley

Arizona Cardinals: Johnson & Fitzgerald

Carolina Panthers: Kuechly & Olsen

Chicago Bears: Alshon Jeffery

New York Jets: Brandon Marshall

Buffalo Bills: Lesean McCoy

Houston Texans: Watt & Hopkins

New Orleans Saints: Brandin Cooks

Atlanta Falcons: Julio Jones

Indianapolis Colts: TY Hilton

Tampa Bay Bucs: Mike Evans & Martin

Kansas City Chiefs: Jamaal Charles

Jacksonville Jaguars: Allen Robinson

Miami Dolphins: Jarvis Landry

Tennessee Titans: Demarco Murray

Detroit Lions: Tate & Ansah

 

Teams with no stand out playmaker (Only 1 team with winning record):

Ravens

Browns

Chargers

49ers

Eagles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you score in that situation: "Gotta commend Harbs for being aggressive and not settling for 3. Sometimes when you're struggling in tight games you need to take a risk to help break a game open".

When you don't score: "Just take the 3. The offense needs every point it can get right now. Don't take unnecessary risks in a close game".

3 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

we have been saying that the past 2 seasons with monroe as well lol.

lets hope stanley does come back sooner rather then later.

Just our luck to take a player known for his durability in college and immediately be dealing with an injury when we're relying on him in pass pro.

It's a bad break but that's the nature of the game. Injuries in the NFL aren't a matter of if, but when. Hopefully he'll be back in a few weeks, we desperately need him.

Definitely not giving up on this season. Once we get CJ, Smitty, Yanda, and Stanley back we'll be in significantly better position. 

If you look around the NFL there are very few consistent teams thus far. Super talented teams like Carolina, Cincy, Pitt, Green Bay have all dropped very winnable games. Can't remember a year with so much sloppy play right out of the gate. I'm not holding by breathe but there's still plenty of football to be played. Let's see what these Ravens got now that the pressure is on.

5 hours ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

LT are always the priority. In addition, after seeing Ramsey's post game interview after SSS basically owned him and his lack of humility to that point - let's say - I'm not a fan. Ramsey's current ranking among defensive backs #95 - Shareece Wright #68.

We're good.

Those rankings are so off. If anyone thinks Wright is even in the same tier as Ramsey they don't know what they're watching.. and this is Ramsey as a rookie mind you. Plus SSS hardly owned him, Ramsey was like glue on everybody he covered and the only reason I didn't like what he had to say after the game is because his team lost.

Ramsey will be a top 10 corner in the near future with the potential to be the best at some point. Height, speed, long arms, tackles like a safety, high football IQ. Kid is the total package, thought he was the best player in the draft back then and I still do now.

For the record I'm happy with the Stanley pick, it is a premium position. Just thought we dropped the ball by not dealing the picks to get the #1 overall talent in the entire draft floating around just a few picks ahead of us. 

I banged my fist about trading whatever it takes to secure Ramsey, you can go back and look at my posts. We were in striking distance and likely just needed to surrender a few mid round picks to move up a couple spots.

But as usual lately we go for quantity over quality. I like Stanley, but Ramsey was the best player in the entire draft and that was clear as day to me. I said we dropped the ball on draft night and I still think we did now. Our drafts have been meh lately outside of 2014 and thats only because it was a loaded class. 

We desperatetly need an effective edge rusher. Suggs and Doom days of dominance are behind us. The wear and tear has seemingly eclipsed both their thresholds and now it's time to look forward at that position. We knew neither of them had much left in the tank durability wise but I don't think any of us saw it coming to an end this soon. 

I see a team with plenty of contributors but virtually no playmakers on either side of the ball, perhaps Mosley could be considered one. Odell gave us an up close look at how true playmakers affect games. To have picked in the top 6 and not come away with a playmaker is highly disappointing. Just our luck to pick high for once in a weak draft class. I do think we made tbe right choice in Stanley though, good piece to have long term.

I feel like Odell when he said he isn't having fun anymore lol. Don't think I've truly had fun watching football since the first half of the divisional game in 2014. I love the game, love the Ravens but being a fan of this team is rough right now. Feels like we're stuck in the twilight zone with injuries and finding ways to lose close games.

Shame on all the fake fans jumping ship, we've become so accustomed to winning that many took it for granted and now they don't know how to deal. I'm in it through the ups and the downs, real fans stick it out even when the going gets tough.

1 minute ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

People sometimes underestimate the impact that simple 'luck' plays in a game. When our corners basically collided on the last OBJ game-breaking TD to basically free him up to go in untouched - that wasn't so much of a Super Human feat - that was chance. OBJ should marry that kicker's net.

We've been pretty competitive this season, but we could still use just a little more luck.

Winners make their own luck. 

1 hour ago, reed20 said:

It doesn't mean anything if he can't catch it in bounds or drops some of those deep balls.

As a rookie the best way to learn is to make mistakes. It was close as well, body control & concentration is definitely something he can improve on with more game reps.

The catch he made against Buffalo was a play I've never seen a Ravens WR make, it's a play only a guy with a large catch radius and great athleticism can make. The lack of overall production at this point is certainly disappointing but really that's the case with a bunch of talented players in Trestman's offense. Don't be surprised if Breshad has a spike in production under Mornhinweg as we hopefully see the re-birth of the vertical passing game.

5 hours ago, Davesta said:

If he was a mid round pick, I wouldn't care as much. But spending a 1st on a WR who's known for the drops? And what does he do finally in live games? Of course, drops balls. 

Demaryius Thomas had the highest drop rate in the NFL last year. I can live with drops if the overall production is there. 

Only time will tell, as others have pointed out we knew he was a high upside project when we drafted him. After a year long layoff and missing yet another camp I'm not sure what people expected. He's certainly flashed what he's capable of but is still just learning tne NFL game so the volume and polish just isn't there yet. Trestman's insufferable play calling certainly didn't help his cause either.