sflegend89

Doesn't really compare at all

Well it is different in the sense that when we gave Webb that contract it seemed fair and it ended up being a disaster for us after the fact. The Browns just out right over paid Williams and it wasn't a good deal to begin with. But at the end of the day we both still have an overpaid cb on the roster and I would rather be paying 7M per for Williams than 8M per for Webb and it's not even close.

And damn $7M/yr for Tramon Williams...over paid

Pot calling the kettle black considering we're paying Webb base salary of 8M this year and I would much rather have Williams. Browns are still over paying but we have the king of overpaid cb's on our own roster. If he won't restructure I would start shopping Webb around and gauging value. If there is a team stupid enough to take on his contract like the Vikes did with Mike Wallace then pull the trigger and pick up another mid round pick in the process.

I saw a tweet earlier that corrected this report and said we were only interested if he was going to be cut.

Exactly. We would never take on that ridiculous contract and give up a pick for him in the process. If he was cut he would've been intriguing, I honestly can't believe any GM in the NFL would willingly take on his his current contract. That's why teams like the Vikes never seem to grow, instead of spending their cap room on young developing players and hoarding draft picks they throw money at high profile players just because they can. That's not how you rebuild, they aren't trying to make a SB push in the next few years so why bring a player like Wallace in to burn through you're cap space and ultimately contribute nothing to the long term future of your team.

Some of these teams just never seem to learn, you rebuild with a youth movement, you don't throw money at stop gaps, you value your draft picks and go after players who can help your team grow long term. They choose to be slightly more competitive short term over having sustainable success long term. 

Crabtree hasn't been getting much interest from any thing lately. I seen The Chargers and Redskins have some interest in him but Crabtree didn't look like his old self last year ever since tore his acl.Crabtree never been a speedster and always had separation issues but if  he lost any quickness or burst then what actually makes him better than the receivers we already have?

 

It's quite possible that he could regain his old form but overall Crabtree is pretty risk especially if his asking price is too high.

You're asking me what makes Michael Crabtree better than Camp, Aiken, and Marlon? The fact that he's had a 1000 yd receiving season for starters and basic football intuition that Crabtree was a top 10 draft pick for a reason, he's very talented but has been in an offense that doesn't cater to his skillset, only played with subpar QB's, and tore his acl coming off his best season as a pro posting a better yds/TD ratio than Torrey ever has while playing with an inferior QB and getting less targets than Torrey.

I'm not saying we absolutely need him by any stretch of the imagination, I doubt we'll sign him. But I don't think you can even argue that we currently have better options on our roster than Michael Crabtree. Someone is going to pay him a nice chunk of change pretty soon, if any GM in the entire NFL felt we had multiple players superior to Crabtree already on our roster I'm sure our phones would be lighting up with offers, It's just a matter of money for us, Crabtree is easily better than  our young wr's and that's not even an insult to them, I'm a fan of Camp and Aiken but I'm also being realistic with my expectations of them next year.

 

Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider  4m4 minutes ago

Ravens were in on Perrish Cox, but wouldn't go as high as the three-year, $15 million that he got from the Titans, according to sources

 

That's exactly Browner's contract. We should've gone after Browner at that price if we were in that neighborhood for Perrish Cox.. News flash we need cb depth because we have the injury bug there what seems like every season. I normally love our methodical approach to signing FA's but I think this was a year we needed to step up to the plate and commit to getting another quality corner in the fold after what happened last season. 

I think it's naive to expect to find a deal on a quality cb in FA after the type of season we had in the NFL with short passing games like the Pats reigning supreme, it's an arms race to build up your secondary and corners are getting top dollar. We did this same thing last year and Aaron Ross and Dominique Franks didn't even make it through the season.. it's one of the only positions where I just say "Pay the man!". Market is now depleted, if Webb or Jimmy go down we will be talking about missing this window on FA cb's all year.

I think we don't necessarily NEED a number 1 receiver, I mean Torrey wasn't a number one for us when we won Super Bowl 47. I think what we really need is a group of good guys that gel well together and mesh with the offense and our quarterback much like what happened in 2012. we never had a true number one that year either, BUT we got the ball to the open guy and they  made the plays that kept drives alive to put points on the board. ( remember Ray Rice's 4th and 29? Boldin's Massive block to let Rice pick up those extra 2-3 yards for the first down and ultimately win the game?  and the turning point in the season for us? ) and that's just one prime example. we need a good core of players that gel...really gel , working together like that rather than a true number 1 receiver.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgRIsjzJCk0

But we did also have a well rounded array of targets. Torrey, Boldin, healthy Dennis Pitta .. we don't have a single one of those guys just 3 years later. I do agree that you don't NEED a #1 wr but if you don't have one you better have multiple quality receiving options like we did in 2012 and even last year with Torrey, Smith Sr, Daniels. I'm a fan of Camp and Aiken but we can't just bank on them stepping into bigger roles smoothly, we tried that in 2013 with Doss and Thompson and it blew up in our face. I think we have better talent at wr now than in 2013 but I still get really worried when we put all our eggs in the basket of unproven players like that.

Smith Sr. has another good year in him, but we desperately need a TE who can catch, top priority right now. Then we can draft a wr in the 1st and we'll be in business. We can get away with only signing a guy like Denarius Moore before drafting our new top wr.. the thing we can't get away with is not getting a replacement for Daniels. Missing out on Chandler hurt, I would give up a 3rd for Vernon Davis a this point.

i completely agree with everything you said.  Problem is i dont think there is a way we will get one of those number 1 wrs.  i like the idea of bringing moore in but id really like to get bowe here, problem is i think he will be too expensive

I'm torn on Bowe, he has a lot of bust potential for his price tag but I could also see him excelling once he get's out of KC's anemic passing situation. Just realized Crabtree is still available, curious what his market value is. I actually really like the idea of Crabtree playing with Flacco.. he's never played with anyone besides Alex Smith AKA The guy who didn't throw a TD to a wr in 2014 and Kaepernick AKA The guy who throws like a shortstop trying to turn a double play. I find it strange that we aren't all over him, after SF took Torrey it would be poetic justice to get Crab who is coincidentally the best wr still available and watch him put up career highs with Flacco. 

I know he's not going to be a bargain but I would like to us at least try to get him on a moderately cap friendly deal. To me he's a cut above everyone else at wr left under 30. That at least gives us some draft flexibility so we don't have to tie ourselves down to a wr in the 1st round. 

We need to get a wr before the market is depleted. Denarius Moore would be ideal... he has the explosiveness to be a deep threat and that's something you don't get in Bowe or Wayne.. not to mention he'll be cheaper and is younger.

Because we didn't re-sign Torrey or get a high quality replacement we've put ourselves in a position where we HAVE to get a wr in the 1st (Unless we make a major move there before the draft}. We draft BPA but I guess that means we have to trade to a position where a wr is the BPA. I'm fine with giving up a lot to get a guy like White or Amari if they fall out of the top 10. Not so hot on Parker or Strong, they can both be good wr 2's but I don't think they have the burst to be a true #1 wr. They aren't great finishers, they can make tough catches but they don't run great after the catch or create a tremendous amount of separation in their route running. I still like Parker, good talent, would be happy if we ended up with him but he's not quite on the level of the other 2 yet.

Last year we had 4 legit #1's available in Watkins, Evans, ODB, Benjamin.. this year I think there's only 2 in White and Cooper. Listen, we invested A LOT in Flacco, too much to not give him some dang weapons. We might have to give up a pretty penny to nab one of those 2 but for me it's worth it, you're getting an elite wr on a rookie contract. The money we're saving by drafting a #1 instead of signing or trading for one helps cover the cost of trading up. We have enough comp picks and the 4th and 5th from Detroit to deal with the price of trading up without sacrificing the rest of our draft. Brady has Gronk, Manning has DT, Ben has AB... there is no excuse for Joe not to have a #1 receiver with how much we've invested in him.

how in the world do you know how much time he spends watching film and learning? do you know him personally? are you a member of the ravens coaching staff?

 

im not a fan of matt elam or anything but thats just a ridiculous statement to make, unless you know him personally. for all you know he could be in the film room 24-7.

I don't know for certain how much film he watches lol. If you notice I prefaced that assessment by saying "Personally", indicating that is merely my personal opinion. After watching every game of his career thus far I think it's clear that his struggles are mental. We've seen Sizzle chewing him out for taking bad angles, Elam didn't forget how to tackle he's just not using his head out there and being technical in is play. 

Look at another safety who is exactly Matt's size (5'10,200 lbs) in Earl Thomas who is among the NFL's elite at his position. The biggest difference that jumps off the page between the two are mental game. Earl is a student of the game, he's clinical with his movement, he takes good angles, he's technical when making an open field tackle and doesn't just rely on brute force. The difference between the two is significantly more mental than it is physical ability.

I don't expect Elam to ever be Earl Thomas, different body types, different position.. but a lot of the principles of Earl's game that make him so effective are mental. Everyone playing safety in the NFL is at least a good athlete , that's a given, what separates the average joe's from the pro bowlers is to what extent they understand defensive/offensive concepts among other more technical mental aspects of the position. If Matt appears unfocused and overwhelmed mentally in game situations why should I believe he's putting in the time learning and preparing? I've seen players that have a highly developed football IQ but don't have the physical tools to be effective, but I've never seen a player with a developed football IQ and the physical tools have the type of mental lapses Elam has so that's why I feel the way I do.

I don't even fault Ozzie for making the Elam pick. I watch film on a lot of draft prospects every year because for me it makes the draft a lot more enjoyable to be knowledgeable about who's available and what kind of potential each player offers. For instance last year I had ODB rated higher than Watkins and Evans so for the most part my intuition is fairly good.  I was impressed a lot by Elam, he was a very solid tackler and really flashed on film. Even when he was introduced the first thing Ozzie talked about was his tackling. 

I have absolutely no idea what happened to the Elam I saw on film and I'm sure Ozzie had a similar sentiment. I mean he went from a great open field tackler in college to a mediocre tackler in the NFL.. it's baffling. Personally I think Elam hasn't mentally devoted himself to reaching his potential, he works hard in the weight room but doesn't put in the time watching film and learning. I think the physical tools are there, he just needs to be mentally more engaged with his play, 

Elam's best game to date was the "Old Megaron" game. The magnifying glass was on him that whole week, he had to get his head all the way in the game or he was going to get embarrassed if he didn't perform. Matt looked like that player we saw at Florida knifing through the backfield and throwing Reggie Bush down for a loss.. he even got the game sealing pick to close out the game. Elam's problem on the field is all mental, he needs to be dialed in like that all the time and not just when the spotlight is on him.

Here's a little head to head comparison with Stewart who was hilariously labelled a "high impact" safety after he signed with the Broncos. Rarely do I actually laugh out loud from reading an ESPN headline but I think that marks the first time Darian Stewart and "high impact" were ever in the same sentence. Stewart is solid, fairly consistent... but high impact? That's a joke and a half.

Darian Stewart 2014: 16 games played, 53 tackles, 1 FF, 1 INT, 4 passes defended, 2 stuffs

Kendrick Lewis 2014: 16 games played, 84 tackles, 3 FF, 2 INT's, 1 TD, 6 passes defended, 4 stuffs

Lewis was better in ever statistical category, over 30 more tackles, contributed to 3 more turnovers, more passes defended, oh yeah and he had a pick 6 while we're talking about "high impact". Do stats mean everything? no. But they certainly point in the direction of the truth more often than not.

Still waiting on contract details but this looks like a quality addition to the secondary. Like others have said easily an upgrade over Stewart and Elam. Texans fans were sad to see him go and wanted him to re-sign there, fans don't get upset over a "crap" player who was only on your team for one season leaving.. if he was half as bad as our pal Sami84 made him out to be then Texans fans would be saying "good riddance".

I think Lewis will start for us and be solid.. not outstanding, but solid. He won't be whiffing on tackles like Elam and he will play the ball in the air better than Stewart who had issues tracking the ball (But to be fair Stewart was getting better at the very end of the year). At just 26 I think we can get the best years of his career out of him in this 3 year span and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he continues his upward trending performance from last year.

3rd and Ellerbe is A LOT to give up for Stills, was thinking more along the lines of a 4th and 6th would be fair, that's why I'm happy to have Oz, he sees the value in draft picks and doesn't just ship out a 3rd rounder for a guy like Stills, that's highway robbery.

I knew this first week of FA was going to be quiet for us but I would've never guessed we weren't going to make a single new signing after clearing all that cap. Missed out on AJ, Browner, Culliver, Cameron, Chandler, Rahim Moore, Antrel Rolle, Royal... I trust Ozzie but I would just want us to pull the trigger on someone. We have big holes at WR, SS, TE and need depth at CB and on the DL. We have too many holes to fill to just rely on the draft, we usually don't have so many openings so I'm concerned we're going to get burned playing the bargain bin game this year.

C. Patterson is being shopped by the Vikings, anybody else intrigued?

I would be intrigued if I were Ozzie. Yes, he disappointed big time in Minnesota last season but he's 23 and extremely talented. We've seen flashes of what this kid can do with ball in his hands but he just needs to develop his route running and mental game a bit. We would have the perfect guy in Smith Sr. to  mentor him. That would be a tremendous Torrey replacement with a little refinement and teaching. You can't teach that kid's speed and natural ability, you can teach him how to run good routes and conduct himself like a professional and there was clearly no one to do that for him in Minny's wr group.

It's a pipe dream still but I'm a big fan of Patterson's potential down the line if he can get with a good team/organization.

Don't think Rahim Moore wanted to come to the place that ruined his life for an entire offseason lol. Moore will be 50 years old and still have people asking him about the mile high miracle. I'm sure he could get over it for the right price but I doubt he would want to play for us without a bigger money incentive. I agree that he could have been a nice piece for us but it would've been an awkward fit.

Glad we got Forsett but we need to get active in the secondary. Please get Culliver, we could have afforded Browner which ticks me off, went for a lot less than I thought his market value would be.

Love the deal for Forsett. Is it a tad risky? sure. But that's true for pretty much every FA rb on the market. Even the #1 rb on the market in Murray is risky, that's just how it is at that position.With Forsett we have a guy who has already proven he fits and can produce in our system. Oh yeah and we got him for a FRACTION of what the Eagles and other teams paid for a top 10 rusher. While a guy like Murray is clearly an upgrade from Forsett, the amount we re-signed him for is an absolute steal in contrast, the drop off between those two players isn't nearly as much as the contracts suggest and that's what our FO is all about, value for money.

Browner and Jimmy would be a nasty duo. A 6'2 and 6'4 duo of cb's that specialize in press coverage..scary. With that said, I still think we can get better value for money from a guy like Culliver, Cromartie, or Perrish Cox so that's the route I expect Oz to go. He's always opted for making smaller, calculated moves across the board over breaking the bank on one high profile FA. 

Kenny Britt is a clown, too immature and unmotivated to be a Raven. The real FA wr's to watch are Denarius Moore and Eddie Royal. Then add a guy like Jalen Strong or DBG in the draft and we're in business.

Forsett is such a tough call. It's hard to separate to what extent his success was based on the system vs his talent. His age makes a long term deal even more risky. We don't have many other options though, Pierce is meh and LT isn't quite ready for a full time gig, Pierre Thomas is also pretty underwhelming as a FA alternative. 

I feel like we know Forsett can produce in our offense so we might just have to take the risk and re-sign him.. I don't see a better solution. Something like 3 years/14M sounds fair, that would be just north of what Gore got from Indy.

If Jordan Cameron didn't have injury concerns he wouldn't be available right now. We already have 1 injury prone TE I'm not sure we would want to deal with 2 of them.

Cameron is worth the risk for me. This guy would be getting big time money if he didn't have some red flags, We're talking about adding a pro bowl caliber TE to an offense that relies heavily on TE's. For me the reward outweighs the risk, it's not a position we can easily just draft and we're obviously shopping on a budget. When you look at value for money at positions of need Cameron is near the top of the list.

This offseason is chaos.. never seen so many blockbuster trades going down in such a short span of time

Go get Jordan Cameron, going to be hard to replace Daniels in the draft when we have so many other areas to address. We need good TE's to run this offense, Cameron is a great fit.

in terms of the offense the ravens will bring in AJ & TE from FA pool, add depth through draft.

I really hope we can land AJ, that would be a game changer. Then bring back Daniels and get a decent corner and sit tight until the draft. That's not too much to ask for right? Why do I get the feeling what we actually do in FA will be extremely underwhelming? 

Nothing like making a massive investment in Joe and giving him no real weapons... Draft isn't enough for our offense the way things are going. We need to cut Ngata and restructure Webb, it sucks parting ways with a player like Ngata but we have to add someone quality to our offense before the draft. As much as I like Camp and Aiken this is a bleak group of weapons for Joe even if we add a 1st round wr.

As much as I want secondary help the offense has jumped to priority #1, we need at least one new weapon for Joe before the draft even if it costs us Ngata. We have Pitta and his hip, Daniels is UFA, Smith Sr. is likely playing his last season, Camp and Aiken are talented but still very unpolished, Marlon has a low ceiling, Forsett might very well be gone... we just had the SB champs in deep water in their house, is 2015 really going to turn into a transition year like 2013 after being on he cusp of a SB birth?

Any cost? Dude... Terrance Brooks. We didn't draft him for nothing.

I said "almost any cost". I'm a big Terrence Brooks supporter but he's starting the year on the PUP list and was inconsistent in coverage when he was healthy. I expect Brooks to develop into a nice player for us but given the circumstances you can't just let a proven stud safety walk out the door and expect Brooks to go from the PUP list to starting safety. 

If a team is bonkers over Will Hill and throws the bank at him then we won't really have a choice but as long as the offer is reasonable we should match because Hill has low market value for his amount of talent/potential and we would still be getting a lot of bang for our buck. It was Hill's first year in our defense after a lengthy suspension and he played at a high level, he really isn't too far off from the Jairus Bryd's and Devin McCourtey's who have received massive deals.