sflegend89

1) He doesn;t need a "full tank" to be a back up.  

2) That is not a lot of money for a guy that can step straight in and excute if need be, will continue to the teach the offense in place of Kubiak, and since he mat never get used the deal would then essentially be $2M.at most.

 

I honestly don't get all the questions on Ozzie's judgement.  This is the Ravens, not Raiders.  Let's leave the cap decisions up to the guy that does his 24/7.

Agreed. Not only is he an upper tier backup but he's spent years playing in this system, he's thrown for 4000 yds twice in this system, he's seen nearly every type of coverage imaginable first hand in this system, he's had to make in game adjustments in this system, he's especially valuable to us in particular because of his experience in our system.

Besides Kubiak and his offensive coaching staff you couldn't ask for a better resource than a guy like Schaub who had to know this system better than any other player on that Texans offense. Even if he never sees the field we are getting something in return for having him on our roster, how many teams can say that about a backup QB?

Is will hill still a fa or what?

RFA. Meaning other teams can make him an offer but we will have the opportunity to match. Since he has an original round tender and was a UDFA we won't receive any compensation if we don't match. I think he's pretty safe however, he's a failed drug test away from a lengthy suspension and it would take quite the offer for us not to match it.

Big money offer + Big risk is typically something GM's tend to stay away from. If they pay him the big bucks to get us not to match they will be risking a lot for a player that would be considered "at risk" of a long suspension. For that reason Will Hill will very likely be a Raven in 2015. After he plays out his contract and stays out of trouble for another year is when he might have some big money suitors.

Honestly tho if it's a joke, he's a joke

Apparently it was a April Fools Joke.. he posted a broken link on twitter to a sqor page. He trolled everyone who's a fan of a west coast team.

Guess that means the door is still open for him to land in Baltimore.. I just feel like the front office "likes our guys" and will only add a wr via the draft. Hopefully we can get a #1 type guy who falls through the cracks similar to Kelvin Benjamin going late first last year. I think Perriman or Strong could fit that bill.

My money's on Seattle or it's just an April Fools Joke

If you're looking purely at the cost for Schaub, I think it's a good deal.  $2-3M isn't bad for a backup QB of his caliber.  My biggest concern is the amount we spent in relation to the cap space that we have and the other holes on our roster.  I don't mind paying a backup QB that much.  I don't even think it's a bad decision overall, just questionable with our other needs.

I feel the same way. We didn't over pay for Schaub, only in relation to our own cap space. Would've rather prioritized getting Housler finalized or another CB.. I like having a competent backup but I hope we left ourselves enough room to fill out some other needs before the draft.

Signing bonus absolutely does count against the cap.  It's guaranteed money.

I was thinking it was a multi-year deal so the 1M would be distributed throughout the contract against the cap but since it's a 1 year deal we take the cap hit all at once.

I doubt he will hit his playing time incentives with Joe's durability.. and if he does hit his playing time incentives then it's money well spent because that means we have a competent backup playing important snaps in Joe's absence. 

About as good as it get's for a backup. I think Schaub can push Joe in practice harder than Tyrod did and also be more useful discussing concepts/attacking different coverages because of his extensive experience as a starter in this system in Houston under Kubiak. If Joe were to miss time I don't think you can realistically ask for a better backup to keep things running smooth until he got back.

Schaub would be an upgrade from Tyrod. If Joe were to miss time I would feel confident in Schaub playing game manager and at least keeping us afloat until Joe got back. I think a QB needy team will over pay for his services however just to have him in the fold. Plus I think Schaub wants to go to a situation where he can at least compete and be in the mix to start. Playing behind Joe is a back up role in it's purest sense, the odds of seeing the field are very low unless it;s a blowout.

I said if his medical history cleared.

I thought it was a joke too.

Head trauma doesn't just disappear. There's a reason he can't find work. A mild concussion that might sideline a regular player for a week or 2 will end Collie's season. Plus he's just not even that good of a player, It just frankly doesn't make any sense for us. He doesn't bring anything to the table that Camp doesn't already bring besides a down right scary medical situation. You realize he's in the CFL for a reason right? He couldn't get a roster spot in the NFL if he played for free.

So now Torrey and Daniels are superior players? Not seeing that.

Had Daniels caught that ball that hit him in the hands in the end zone we might have been drafting at 32 this year. Same goes for the last play to Torrey, catch or break up. Those two plays were anything but superior.

There's no way for us, "internet GM's", to realistically assess these situations imo.

That said, I would love Denarius and Housler and then Parker/Strong in the first. Would be fun to watch.

Ozzie knows what he's doing. He remains calm and collected, while lots of other GM's lose their cool and desperately overpay whoever is available on the market (e.g. Browns, Dolphins, Jags....)

Meaning superior to Zack Miller and Greg Jennings

Drafting a wr early isn't enough. Maybe if we retained Torrey and Daniels it would be but this offense has two massive voids at WR and TE right now. Hello? This is a TE driven offense and we're out in the cold as of right now. If Rob Housler signs elsewhere which he probably will because he wasn't cut then our final option is Zack Miller and the draft.. seriously? For one of the most crucial positions in our offense we're down to a glorified camp body and unproven players in a weak TE class.

The Falcons just signed Moeaki AND Tamme, there's barely any depth left let alone a starter. I really hope there is a trade in the works for a TE because this is getting ridiculous, Daniels even said he was surprised how little we pursued him, seemed like a mistake when it happened and it seems like a mistake now. Daniels wasn't that expensive and he was tailor made for this offense and already had chemistry with Joe.

Don't worry I'm sure we'll get some scrub like Zack Miller and Lee Evans... oops I mean Greg Jennings. That's really going to help out Joe after losing superior players at both positions. I don't even mean to trash Jennings who's still a productive player but give me a break with this lack of explosion in the passing game. This offense doesn't scare anyone. We have a 100 Million$ QB playing with bargain bin talent.. things can still change but it's concerning to say the least, especially TE.

I think this year is the year. I just don't see Ozzie not spending a 1st or 2nd on a WR. The value is just too good. And now with Torrey and Jacoby gone, it's a huge need.

I hope so man, I feel like Oz will too but I wouldn't be surprised at all if we make a BPA pick in the 1st round and the boards explode with frustration for not trading up for a WR

You also need to put how much each of those teams is spending on WR. Green Bay, Denver, Cowboys, and 49ers are all top of the league at WR spending. Saints and falcons aren't far behind. Bears escape due to have had traded Marshall. 

I would do an extremely in depth version of it if I had enough time. I still think it paints a good picture of how underdeveloped we currently are compared to the other teams investing a lot in a franchise QB. Are other teams out spending us on these receiving options? I'm sure they are. But that's part of the problem, even if we refuse to pay market value for top receiving options we should at least invest high draft picks and we don't even seem to do that.

Fans always want number one receiver but it's not holding the team back from making the playoffs or even winning a super bowl. It be nice  to have elite talent receiver but at the end of the day can't really doubt Ozzie formula.

#1 receiving option can be a WR or a TE. How soon we seem to forget that when we won the SB we had Anquan Boldin playing the best football of his career during those playoffs, along with Torrey Smith, and a healthy, pre-hip injury Dennis Pitta. We currently don't have a single one of those players.

I'm as big of an Ozzie supporter as you can be, he's one of, if not the best GM's in the game. But he does have shortcomings as does every other GM. The Baltimore Ravens have never had a true #1 WR in the franchise's history. You can't tell me that's by design, at certain points we've tried to get one. We traded for Terrell Owens, we drafted Mark Clayton, Ozzie has tried to secure a #1 for us. But now we have too much invested in Flacco not to give him the weapons he needs to reach his full potential. We don't have anything close to the receiving options we had in 2012 or even 2014.

Ozzie sent us into 2013 with a laugher of a wr core and believed in Doss and Thompson to be starters.. they aren't even on the team 2 years later and were slotted as starters. I think Camp and Aiken are much better prospects but the point remains that WR is a position where we really struggle to develop our own talent and it's time to make a concentrated effort to get Joe a dominant WR or TE for once in his career. Let's take a look at the top 10 highest paid QB's top receiving options currently:

#1 = Elite receiving option

#2 = Good receiving option

#3 = Average receiving option

#4 = Developmental/Below Average receiving option

*In order of salary

1. Rodgers - Jordy Nelson (#1) and Randall Cobb (#1)

2. Ben - Antonio Brown (#1) and Martavis Bryant (#3)

3. Matt Ryan - Julio Jones (#1) and Roddy White (#2)

4. Joe Flacco - Steve Smith Sr. (#2) and Kamar Aiken (#4)

5  Drew Brees - Marques Colston (#2) and Brandin Cooks (#2), also have two 1st round picks including #13 overall 

6. Peyton Manning - Demaryius Thomas (#1) and Emannuel Sanders (#1)

7. Kaepernick - Torrey (#2), Boldin (#2) (Vernon Davis is also a #2)

8. Jay Cutler - Alshon Jeffery (#1) and Martellus Bennett (#2)

9. Tony Romo - Dez Bryant (#1) and Jason Witten (#3)

10. Matt Stafford - Megatron (#1) and Golden Tate (#2)

- 7/10 teams with a top 10 highest paid QB have a #1 receiving option and it was 8/10 before the Graham trade

Let's add up the rankings from the top 2  receiving options from each team, obviously the lower the score the better

1. Packers = 2

2. Broncos = 2

3. Lions = 3

4. Falcons = 3 

5. Bears = 3

6. Steelers = 3

7. Cowboys = 4

8. 49ers = 4

9. Saints = 4

10. Ravens = 6

We have the worst top 2 receiving options out of teams with a top 10 highest paid QB and it's not even close, even if we're being generous and upped Aiken up another rank we're still last.

Will this front office PLEASE get Joe a #1 receiving option! Joe has never had a true #1 option, Brady has Gronk, Manning has DT, Luck has Hilton, Ben has AB, Dalton has Green.. you invest all this money in Joe and now you're giving him bargain bin talent to throw the ball to. We have a massive hole at TE, we have a massive hole at WR, Smith Sr is still productive but on his last legs, Camp and Aiken have good potential but as we learned in 2013 you don't go into a season with just "potential" at WR or you can end up getting burned.

We do such a great job of putting together a well rounded team at nearly every position yet for some strange reason we ignore WR year after year after year. Always adding stop gaps like Boldin and Smith Sr but never investing in a young player who will be here for the long haul. Last time we drafted a WR in the first 3 rounds was Torrey in 2011! That's inept player development at a key position when we have so much invested in a franchise QB.

The draft is our only hope this year. Please Ozzie do what needs to be done and trade up for Amari, White, or Parker. Yes we will have to give up a few valuable picks but we are getting #1 talent on a rookie contract. I'm going to be livid if we send Joe into next season with some rag tag group like Smith Sr, Greg Jennings, Aiken, Camp, Zack Miller. That's not going to cut it, this offense needs an explosion in the passing game with Torrey and Daniels gone and it needs it now if we have any plans to actually compete for a SB. The defense just needs a few minor touches, the offense needs drastic moves at WR and TE. 

And what exactly are we doing to bolster our depth at DT? So far, we have let good quality DTs go to other teams and we are sitting here with no additions.

Doing what we do every year, waiting out the first wave of free agency and snapping up good players who fall through the cracks on a discount. We were in on Knighton and Wilfork but other teams were willing to pay over our maximum. Plus we have a slew of mid round picks this year which is where Ozzie loves getting DL prospects and has had good success doing so.

It's pretty close. Torrey has been more productive throughout his career; but as you said, Crabtree is more well rounded (who isn't more well rounded than Torrey lol)...

Who I'd pick between those two would depend on what the team needs.

I can agree with this, it can vary based on what wr's you put around them. If a team already has enough underneath possession wr's it would be better to have Torrey who can get vertical and take the top off a defense.

So while it can vary, for the most part I think Crabtree is better overall (if he's healthy), better routes, better hands, better body control, more active underneath which helps move the chains and get the QB into a rhythm. Another big factor for me is the QB play, Torrey has played his whole career with Joe who throws one of, if not the best deep balls in the game. Alex Smith is the ultimate game manager and Kaepernick throws like a shortstop trying to turn a double play. Torrey has been the benefactor of better QB play and Crabtree still has had the best season between the two. 

So, that alone would make it difficult for the Ravens to consider him no? Or do you think with the passage of time and no takers, he may realize he isn't going to get paid and may sign a 'prove it' one year deal? Given his Achilles injury perhaps if not anything else?

Yeah, his implied price tag does make it difficult which is why I'm not holding my breathe on us signing him. NFL front offices have much better info than we do about his Achilles so that is definitely going to sway his market value one way or another. If Crab is looking for the highest bidder we are already out of the running, if he's looking to compete for a SB and prove the 9ers wrong for replacing him with Torrey this is a picture perfect fit. 

We'll see how it plays out, if I had to guess I think he ends up in SD who is reported to have interest, decent enough team, has more cap room than us, get's to stay in Cali and live in beautiful weather. We would really have to sell him hard on coming here but it's certainly possible.

Granted. But, how is he as a locker room presence. Any particular reason why Torrey was signed in SF instead of resigning Crabtree? Curious to know the answers to these.

Fair question to ask. I don't know for sure obviously but I don't think Crab was a locker room cancer or anything like that.. just seemed like a mutual split. Crab wanted a change of scenery and the 49ers wanted someone who could take the top off the defense (what they envisioned with Lloyd and Stevie Johnson). They knew they had Torrey on board very early and opted to let Crabtree walk because he didn't really have a defined role with Torrey and Boldin there. They felt they didn't need Torrey, Boldin, AND Crabtree.. especially because he wouldn't come back cheap.

Not trying to be "that guy" but Crabtree tore his Achilles, not his ACL. 

No worries man, that's the correct information. If I recall Suggs made a pretty miraculous recovery from an Achilles tear, obviously it would affect Crabtree more with the sharp cuts and route running but good a rehab can be done with that injury in most cases. I'll leave that up for our team doctors to weigh in on though as it clearly exceeds my area of expertise.

I still want Crabtree.

Not much buzz around him maybe he's got a lingering injury or something.

Healthy Crabtree > Torrey

Not saying that out of bitterness or spite, that's always been my honest opinion. Crab is more well rounded and much more effective underneath while still bringing some big play ability down the field. The keyword though is healthy, I'm not sure to what extent Crabtree is still being affected by the ACL. Would love to have him here if we feel good about his rehab and progress from last year.. not sure what his market value is however.

Changes if post June 1 cut to $8 mil saved in cap with $4 mil in dead money but unless something weird like Denver fax happens, not much use of that space.

Even if we couldn't use the money to sign anyone significant this year I think it will definitely assuage Joe's cap hit next year and give us more flexibility. 

I think a trade is a better option than cutting him anyway, If Webb get's banged up again this year his trade value is gone. If we trade him now there is still that glimmer of hope he'll stay healthy for another team and they will take on his contract and compensate us a pick or two in the process. Correct me if I'm wrong but a trade would clear the most cap and we could spend it right away (like we did with Ngata). Honestly Ngata was more deserving of getting paid than Webb so if we dealt Ngata why should we pay Webb? The only argument really is lack of depth at cb compared to dt.

True. But who knows? Maybe Webb returns to form this year and maybe Tramon has a career ending injury. It's all up in the air and nothing we can do about it now.

Sure, anything can happen in the NFL. I'm just going based on the trends I've seen though and Webb being healthy and returning to form this year isn't something I'm at all sold on. If he had a moderate cap hit then I would be more willing to sit back and see what happens, but it's that 12M cap hit that makes it hard to figure out what to do with him.

The simple solution is to restructure, stays on the team, lessens the unjustified cap hit. But since it appears Webb isn't willing to do that (which I don't blame him for, players want to make the most money possible) we have to likely trade or release him. While I wouldn't be shocked if we let him play under his current contract I think if we can find a trade partner like we did with Ngata that would be the ideal solution and we would get yet another pick out of it and avoid that 12M cap hit.

Williams is 32. His play hasn't been as good as it used to, and it should skyrocket down shortly.

At least he's healthy on the field when his team needs him. Not blaming Webb for being injury prone but it is what it is