DMH_in_WA

Man, even Wilson reps are chiming in on this:

"That's b.s.," Wilson rep Jim Jenkins told Boston.com at a Super Bowl fan convention. "That's b.s., man."

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/26/deflategate-bill-belichick-patriots-explanation-wilson-bs

But lying about what? Lying about presenting under-inflated balls to the refs, or lying about tampering with the footballs after the refs inspected them? See, that's the problem. The former gets a slap on the wrist whereas the latter should involve fines and suspensions and loss of draft picks.

Here's the thing. Presenting an under/over-inflated ball doesn't deserve a slap on the wrist or any punishment as it's not against the rules. You could pump a ball up to 30psi and hand it in if you want. The refs will simply deflate it to within the 12.5-13.5 range (that's what Aaron Rodgers said annoyed him, when they'd deflate his balls down).

The only thing that warrants punishment is if they tampered with the air pressure after the officials checked and marked the balls, which is what the NFL says happened. The balls were at regulation pressure before the game and off at the half.

The problem with the natural atmospheric deflation theory is that it doesn't account for the fact that the Patriots didn't bring just 12 balls. As home team, they brought 24 balls. Since Tom Brady says he likes his balls at 12.5psi, you have to assume that all 24 were prepared at that pressure.

Do you know what the chances are that of those 24 balls they bought, only 11 deflated and it just so happened to be the 11 starting balls of the Patriots? Not the 12 alternate balls. Not the 1 ball that the kicker gets to practice with on the sideline. Just the 11 balls the patriots offense uses.

Add into that the 12 balls the Colts brought and the 12 kicking balls and the chance that this was a random natural occurrence seems -extremely- far fetched.

I also can't believe that if it was as easy to say "natural consequence of the environment" the NFL wouldn't have already run to the podium to say that and nip this embarrassment in the bud. Goodell doesn't want another second of scrutiny for the NFL after the year he has had.

It makes me so angry that as of right now it looks like Belicheck and Brady are going to get away with this. The NFL hasn't even talked to Brady yet? What are they waiting for? Or are we buying that 11 of the 12 balls ONLY THE PATRIOTS USED magically deflated after inspection?

The real truth is Belichick and Brady are the big moneymakers for the NFL. No way they do anything to jeopardize them playing next week in the Super Bowl.

One of the things I heard on a Sports Radio show out here was from a guy who use to be in the NFL and he said that in these investigations, it's usually the tactic of the NFL reps to talk to the lowest people involved and work their way up. In this case, ball attendants and others who were around the balls. They aren't use to talking to people and they want to get to them before anyone has a real chance to "coach them up" so to speak; if someone was going to do that. So guys like Belichick and Brady would actually be one of the last group they'd talk to.

You are wrong. He said if they deflated them fine...but they always didn't. Looks like the same for the Patriots just the other way around. It looking more and more like refs were pretty lax with this around the league. I believe the witch hunt is over. The Patriots may even get an apology from the NFL.

Hahahaha ... yea, you're a troll. I'm going away now. Apology ... hahahaha.

I also read reports that they didn´t check the balls properly and they didn´t mark the balls as checked. Also more and more Players admit that they use/used to deflate/inflate balls because of what they prefer. If the Pats did deflate the Balls after the Refs checked the balls, they should be punished (whatever punishment, Draft Picks, Suspensions, Money...), but if the Refs did do a mistake it´s their fault as well. I am pretty sure the Pats are not the first team to play with deflated balls, they are just the ones who get blamed for it now. Their has to happen something within the rules and the Pats organisation, but now only blaming them is wrong as long as we do not know how that happened.

This is a misrepresentation of what players have said. It started with Aaron Rodgers and spreads.  What Rodgers and others said is they like the balls a certain way. Rodgers elaborated that he would over-inflate the balls. The part people are ignoring is he went on to say that it annoyed him when the refs would deflate them to lower pressure and give them back.

Rodgers , and the rest, didn't say that he would then take those now properly inflated and certified balls and pump them back up.  Preference is one thing ... tampering with the balls is an entirely different thing. Stop mixing up the two as if they're the same.

I am pretty sure its not the first time someone uses deflated balls...and if tge playoff refs forget or dont care about the procedure of checking the balls before a game its their fault as well...When a LB is the one who notices that the Balls are deflated, what does that say about the Refs who touch the Ball every single play? lets be honest...a lot of people did a lot of mistakes so that could happen...

The refs didn't forget to check anything. Report is that the officials checked and certified all balls before the game. That means after they were certified, someone took it upon themselves to deflate 11 of the 12 Patriots balls. The Colts balls were untouched as were the 12 alternate balls.

And it's ridiculous to try and lay blame for this on officials. They have 30 things they are checking between the end of one play and the start of another. They are under the assumption that the balls are within regulation because they just certified them a couple hours beforehand.

Trying to blame officials for the Patriots cheating is like blaming the police for the act of a robbery because they weren't there to stop the robbers. Regardless of anyone else involved, the act of cheating is on the perpetrator(s).

But as many other ex and current players have stated is that it makes the balls easier to hold on to. Equating to less fumbles.

And this is why stuff like this puts your organization under a cloud. Because you say that about fumbles and it makes me wonder and then I go to ESPN stats and I see that the New England Patriots in 2014 are ranked 31st in rushing fumbles with 1 fumble in the entire season (and it wasn't even a lost fumble) and it makes you wonder.

And on point 4 wouldn't it make sense that throwing a long ball deflated is the optimal use of deflation and not dink and dunks that don't need any?.

Actually, the opposite on long balls. Momentum = Mass * velocity .... the lighter the ball, the lower the momentum; the slower it will travel to the receiver. The difference in mass though will be negligible .. you're probably talking less than a tenth of a second difference on long passes.

I think that's what most people just don't understand about all this. No one is saying the Patriots aren't a good team. No one is saying they wouldn't have beaten the Colts. What I think most are saying is, why even do it? You are that good .. why tarnish it with this kind of crap? There was no need for them to seek a competitive advantage by cheating. But they did it anyway. It's almost like they can't help themselves.

And then it begs the question, did they do it against the Ravens (which I am assuming the Ravens thought something of it since they're the ones who reportedly tipped off the Colts)? That was by no means a blowout and the Patriots won that by the skin of their teeth. Who else did they do this to? And then it opens the question, what else are they doing that they haven't been caught at yet?

It's just a bad look all around.

So when one team possesses the ball, they use their own. When the other team possesses the ball, they use their own?

Yea ... the NFL allows teams to prepare the balls the way that their QB likes it .. but they have to be within regulations when they are done. So the home teams brings 24 balls .. 12 starting balls (these are usually what are used) and then 12 alternate balls they can bring into the game as balls are lost or removed from game. The visitors bring their 12 with them prepared the way they like (again, within regulations). And then the kicking balls come sealed from the manufacturer.

Under-inflated balls are easier for a QB to grip which increases his control (especially in the rain and cold). You sacrifice a little bit of velocity on throws, but minimal. They are also easier to catch, but more importantly, they are much easier to tuck and hold onto .. especially for running backs.

The new interesting wrinkle I think is the report that it was the Ravens who tipped off the Colts that the Patriots were under-inflating balls.

It will be interesting to see what comes of this. I don't know if it's true or not. I'll wait to see what the NFL says. But if it's true, what does Goodell do? They sent a message with Sean Payton and the Saints ..... how do you not send a message in this case? Especially if it's true and you're talking Championship Game.

I swear we run the lowest amount of shotgun in the league , and its not even like Flacco is bad in the shotgun.

 

Needs to change.

Why? Not being a wise guy .... what is it you're trying to fix by moving him into shotgun more? This year he had career highs in almost every statistical category (and the few of those that weren't career highs, the numbers were within a percent or so of his career high). And is it into shotgun, or pistol or shotgun and pistol?

Wish Ed would have followed Ray and just retired with his ring. Now he is just hopping from team to team. Bad enough to see him in a Texans uniform but the picture I saw of him in a Jets hat did it for me. What will he wear in two months? A Bills hat? Just retire Ed.

Why?  For your sake?  That's ridiculous.  Keep intercepting those checks, Ed.

Ed Reed is signing with the Jets

 

D Mason all over again 

 

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2222/ed-reed

Of course they did.  The NY Jets are where old Ravens go to become irrelevant.  Good for Reed ... get all the money while you can in your last days.  I love fans telling him to quit.  Fans sure are quick to tell other people what to do with their own money.

I love Ed Reed and the nostalgic guy wants me to see him in purple and black again, but we can not have Ed Reed's mouth running in the Ravens locker room anymore .... not when he can't contribute at the levels you use to.  I worry about Ed and the NY media.  Hopefully, with only 7 games left in the season, there won't be any time for Ed to be Ed.

I think more than his play, it was Ed being Ed. Whether he can play or not, his value as basically a player-coach for their secondary is invaluable. His money is guaranteed, there is nothing they gain from releasing him.

I think this all has to do with the fact that Ed spoke up after the game and said something like the Texans were "out-played and out-coached" and went on talking about the teams deficiencies - especially coaching/scheming/play calling. And then when people got upset he said it, he tweeted something like "Speak the truth no matter what."

Ed being Ed and an embattled team in a tailspin can't have veteran with Ed's resume muddying the locker room waters even more than they are. Of course, watching the Texans, he was right and maybe they might want to listen a bit.

Yeah, but between the two I would keep Boldin over Leach, even if Boldin is like a clingy GF and has a hard time separating.

And if that was/is the case, why not just explain that to him? I don't buy your logic. It doesn't make any sense. You say it's because he's highly paid. Absolutely true. 100% agree. But when you calculate the addition of the fact that we wouldn't supposedly tell him why we wanted the cut tells me there's something more. Sorry, I don't care how you spin it but I can't see the team asking him for a paycut just because.

Yes, but you and I don't get to say if we keep Boldin or Leach. And you are asking me the question I asked. Apparently, Boldin didn't know that they needed to cut money to get him under the cap because HE said, he didn't understand why they were asking him to take a $2million pay cut. Since almost EVERYTHING went through his agent by his accounts (except, I am assuming, for his conversation on the phone with Harbaugh) then why was he confused by them asking to cut his pay? Kind of the whole point of my message ... why was it that he didn't know?

Well, if it's so easy to figure out, and WE all knew why it was happening because all you have to do is look it up online, what makes you think Q was so clueless?

Because at the time he was working with his charity, was in transit to Senegal and didn't have or check the internet? I couldn't tell you. I do know that there's a 3 day period where he didn't post anything on the internet which coincides with the time frame for when his agent and the Ravens were negotiating. He didn't even tweet anything about his charity and what they were doing, which he is good about doing.

So yea .. either he knew and he is lying about knowing or he had no idea why they were asking him to take a cut and the question stands, how does his agent not tell him that little fact?

*shrug* Guess we'll never know.

That's not necessarily true. Hell, with that logic they could cut Leach and save money, too.

Well, that still could happen. But, those two are not the same. Leach is set to make ~$4.3million against cap in 2013. The only players making Q level money in 2013 are Suggs, Ngata, Yanda and Flacco. Of those names, which one do you ask to take a $2million pay cut?

Well, they probably didn't want to reveal their plans that could be leaked to the media & thus other teams.

But we all knew why they were asking him to take a pay cut. Just going to the numbers online you could see that $7.5million wasn't going to fit under the cap and allow them to do too much more. Sounded to me like he thought they just wanted him to take cut "because".

I listened to that radio interview with Boldin and something really struck me as kind of odd. Boldin said that the Ravens told his agent that he needed to take a $2million pay cut and he didn't understand why they needed it. Now I'm sure the Ravens made the case to his agent that they were strapped under the salary cap.

Did his agent just not bother to tell him the reason they asked for the pay cut or what? He's traveling, working in Senegal .. I'm sure he probably has no idea on the salary cap numbers for the Ravens ... how does his agent not explain why they are asking for the cut so he can make an informed decision. He sounds like he talked to Harbaugh, he says they will try to work something out and then he doesn't talk to his agent until he steps off the plane in Senegal and his wife tells him people are wishing him well in San Francisco.

Huh?

It really seems cut and dry to me. There's no way we could absorb Boldin's $7.5million cap hit .. not right now when we also have Suggs and Ngata's bonus money thrown in (Cap hits: Suggs = $13million, Ngata = $11.5million), so many FA's, holes to fill -and- Draft money to keep in mind.

Ellerbe and Kruger ... anyone dumb enough to pay them $7million and $8million / year, respectively, deserves what is going to happen to their teams in 2-3 years.

I will not be the least bit surprised if Reed doesn't come back ... prepared myself for that the minute they won the SB. Only one that is a surprise to me is Pollard and I get the feeling this might have something to do with his health.

That's what I'm saying. BAL should've been able to snag 2 draft picks.

With what leverage? They were going to cut him. The 49ers know this.... the Vikings knew this. That's why they only offered a 6th and 7th round pick respectively. To get anything for a guy you're about to cut, who only has 1 year left on his contract ... that did really well to get that much.

All recievers on the Nfl level should be covered. Qbs are taught that if they are in single coverage to trust the receiver. So i would say very often, to answer your question.

I'm not sure what that means. I guess you could say they "should" be covered, but the reality is that's not anywhere close to how it is. There is an expectation of receivers to get open and get separation. While Q makes plays, the lack of separation that he gets almost always means that he is tackled right away with minimal YAC. It's one of the reasons he is almost 80th in the NFL amongst receivers in Yards After the Catch. He averaged something like 3-YAC last season.

Now, I don't expect him to have some crazy average like Ray Rice who is at 7.5-YAC in receiving, but getting a little distance between himself and the defenders would have opened up a lot more for the offense. Q had the same total number of yards after catch as Smith and Torrey had almost a third fewer catches.

So, I've been off reading postings by 40-Whiners fans all over the net (Twitter, forums, NFL.com, ESPN, etc).

I HOPE Q plays really well for them. I seriously like Q and the way they are pumping it up, he's the re-incarnation of Moss in his prime. If he doesn't play all year like he played in the playoffs (and I have serious doubts about CK being able to utilize him correctly), they are going to dog him hard and that'll just be sad.

No one would be talking about Boldin like this if he was still a Raven, so all of a sudden talking as though he's now just a slow, old worthless receiver just because he's not on our team anymore is the same kind of cliche nfl fan hypocrisy that we make fun of any other team's fans for doing. Its kind of embarrassing guys. I get that every nfl team fan base is the exact same in that they all have every type of fan, but seeing it play out first hand is weird.

I see -nothing- new in what people have been saying. It's the same thing people on these forums have always said about Q. Is he fast? Does he get seperation? No one is saying he's worthless ... they are just saying people are trying to think with their hearts over their heads. The Ravens have a LOT of pieces they need to put together and paying Q $6million this year does not allow them to do that.

People want to blame the Ravens for only taking a 6th round pick, did it ever occur to anyone that only two teams were willing to make offers on him and those two offered a 6th and a 7th round? What were they supposed to do? Force people? They had ZERO leverage. The minute you start shopping him around, EVERYONE knows you are either going to trade him or cut him, nothing else.

Apparently, he is valued at a much higher level by his fans (as it should be) than by the business minds of the NFL.

Someone else would offer more than 4 million.. No doubt about it..

I think they would too, which just means we force other teams to spend more money AND lose a 1st round pick. But there's also a chance (however slim) that no one else does ... because they also have to give up a 1st round pick ... and one of the things the "pundits" have talked about in the past is how teams hate to deal with players that have a tender attached to them because you end up going through the time and trouble of negotiations just to have the players current team swoop in and match it.

RFA's arent my forte, but we make offer, Giants match or we get him. I thinks thats it. Probably cant afford him.

Personally, if I'm the Ravens, I offer Cruz the $4million Q turned down. If nothing else, to make the Giants spend more money than the $2.86million they have to pay Cruz for the 1st Rnd tender. And if, for some unbelievable reason, no one else offers more and the Giants refuse to pay, we get Victor Cruz for $4million and lose the 32nd pick in the draft (that low, it's like giving up a 2nd round pick anyway). I'll take that deal all day long.