gabefergy

Combined with Ravens likely hesitance to draft a player that bombed his interview...yeah, it's not going to happen.

You can't compare a cheap FA signing and a first round draft pick. The level of investment is worlds apart.

There might be a very minisculte chance where the Ravens trade back a couple spots and still get Buckner, and Spence slides to the back end of the first and the Ravens trade back up to get him. Lots of things would have to go right, and the Ravens would have to be OK with Spence which I am still am very skeptical of. I think we all see what Spence can do on the football field and assume the FO will ignore his very troubled history. I believe that might be wishful thinking.

You're biased. It's obvious. That's fine. It's not worth arguing over. I'm not making excuses, I just have a better idea of what I'm looking at than you.

AHA! glad you are coming over to the dark side. From a need perspective, I would be OK with taking Spence although I very very highly doubt the Ravens take him at #6 with his off the field. It's just not an Ozzie thing to do. I'm also a big Buckner fan, but I just think Jack impacts the game in more ways and more importantly in more ways that we desperately need. Buckner's biggest asset is his run defense. He's not a slouch as a pass-rusher, but I don't see him as a guy who gets 8-10 sack as an interior rusher. The best part is, we can't go wrong with any of them!

When did I say I was a expert again?

First link, the ball is way off of frame and he has to dive to catch the ball. Trying to extend and just catch with his hands would have made it a much lower % play. Second link, the ball is at his waist and behind him. He had to turn to make the catch, extending backwards with just his hands turns it into a lower % play. Third link, isn't over the middle, and is a ball once again underthrown, also he catches the ball with his hands and brings it in to his body. He doesn't let it into his body first. Fourth link, terrible throw from the QB is behind the receiver, low, and thrown way to hard for a pass from 5 yards away. Fifth link, once again not over the middle, but yes, this is a play where ideally he jumps up and catches the ball away from frame, although this is quite difficult for a receiver going full speed to stop, contort his body in attempt to highpoint. If the ball is placed better it's not an issue. Very few WRs have the body control to make this type of play consistently. Sixth link, mistimed jump, not alligator armed. Still an extremely athletic play. 7th link, was the one time in 6 games the ball was accurately placed and he let it get into his body. 8th link is broken 9th link, another bad pass, low and behind the receiver, but it was one of the drops I noted before. 10th link, bad drop. So yes, there are instances in which Coleman allows the ball get into his body, but as previously stated the vast marjority are plays where the ball is underthrown or thrown low and/or behind the receiver. Only 1 drop was on a ball that was not poorly placed. Could it be an issue at the next level? Yes, I believe it could be a problem on contested catches when Coleman has to make major adjustments to the ball. He will probably have some drops just like every other WR that ever played the game. Am I specifically worried about plays over the middle? Not at all.

You have no clue what I do or don't do. You like to make up things and instead of taking responsibility for your made up stories deflect blame to others. Here's what I have seen in re-watching 6 videos on Draftbreakdown. 3 drops on passes that could be considered "over the middle". 2 of them were at or below the waist and slightly behind the reciever, with no influence from the defender at all. One was a flat drop. The "body catching", if you want to call it that, is 9/10 times because the ball is at or below the waist. I counted one catch on a slant where the ball was allowed to get into his frame and not because it was low. Balls at shoulder or chest height are virtually always caught with hands away from the body. Poor ball placement was a common theme on slants.

I'm normally 3 mocks in by this point, but alas I have fallen off in the message boarding. I have not read one mock draft yet, here or in the media circles, so my thoughts are my own. This is a draft the Ravens absolutely have to knock out of the park, and there are a lot of different directions we could go with the #6 pick, but IMO defense has to be the focus. I haven't studied many prospects outside of the top 150 so just 4 rounds for now, so without further ado... Round 1 - Myles Jack - LB/jack of all trades: Three months ago, I would have never thought I would suggest taking a LB in the top 10. We just invested a high pick in Mosley 2 years ago, and there are so many other holes in the defense. Then I went back and watched Myles Jack dominate at all 3 levels of the defense. Jack is the rare athlete with excellent football instincts. He can play OLB, ILB, SS, slot CB and excel in any of these roles. He covers TEs and WRs out of the slot better than many CBs and aggressively plays sideline to sideline against the run. He's one of the best defensive players in this draft, and most importantly he's a playmaker. He's not going to line up outside and cover WRs, but he brings similar versatility to a defense as Jalen Ramsey, and in may ways he is even more impactful in the box. Round 2 - Will Fuller - WR: There has been a lot of discussion about WRs on this board, but I feel like Fuller has somehow slid under the radar as a potential Raven. First, the negatives: Fuller is leaner than ideal, and his thin frame may make it harder for him to line up against bigger physical CBs in the NFL. He also has some issues with drops which is obviously a very real concern. Now for the positives: He absolutely flies and he has an extra gear that allows him to pull away from any defender on the field. He is a quick accelerator and creates easy separation. Very good at tracking the deep ball and ability to make plays after the catch. Similar to Jack, I consider him to be a dynamic playmaker and his speed is much needed on offense. Round 3 - Xavien Howard - CB: I think Howard might be a late riser in the process because he possesses elite size and is a very good athlete, two things that NFL teams covet. On top of this, he has demonstrated solid coverage skills making a lot of plays on the ball, notching 5 INTs and 10 additional PBUs in 2015. He has the size to match up with big WRs and the speed and movement skills to play man to man. I think he could be a real steal at this point. Round 4 - Yannick Ngakoue - OLB: The local MD product had a very productive season, and depending on who you ask may end up going as high as the 2nd round. I think he is a bit limited athletically and is a bit undersized, but he has speed to threaten the edge. I think some time developing some counter moves and upper body strength will serve him well. Round 4 (SUP) - Max Tuerk - Interior OL: Tuerk possesses a leanish frame and is taller than the typical center, but he plays with good leverage and has above average movement skills and athleticism. I think he would be an ideal fit in a ZBS, and he can probably bulk up a bit to become a quality starter either at C or OG. He even has the size to play to some OT in a pinch. Round 4 (SUP) - Cyrus Jones - CB/RS: I think Jones is your ideal 3rd/4th CB. He is best suited to play zone imo and is a solid tackler. But his real value is in the return game, he is truly a threat to take any punt to the house. With all of the problems the Ravens had last year, people tend to forget the revolving door in the return game. Kaelin Clay had some nice moments, but bringing in a player like Jones would help bolster the secondary and add a dynamic threat on ST.

Saying the marjority of his drops came when he went over the middle is completely made up, so no, you're wrong.

How about you show some evidence of all these times "anything over the middle" results in drops and body catches? Like in which games at which point. That would be evidence. So instead of making up or exaggerating statistics, why don't you show me this consistent failure to make plays over the middle.

I just completely disagree with most everything you are saying. The sarcastic attitude isn't helping your argument either. I've been breaking down WRs for a long time and I have a strong grasp of good catching technique vs bad. Marqise Lee had a terrible catching technique. I was extremely negative towards him compared to most on this board and I have been proven to be correct. Sure, sometimes a ball will get into a WR's body. If it's a consistent occurence, then maybe you have a problem. It's NOT a consistent occurence with Coleman. You say 53.6% of targets were caught? That is not what I have seen, although once again I did not do the charting. This website has him at 61.2% and that is despite some of the worst QB play I have seen over the 2nd half of the 2015 season. Baylor was literally playing a WR with zero previous collegiate QB XP. Does he need to learn a more advanced route tree? Yes. Was he primarily used as a boundary receiver? Yes. Those facts don't influence my evaluation one iota, and frankly there is no reason for them to be given any real consideration. Can Coleman make contested catches? Yes. Does he have sudden movement skills and the ability to sink his hips in and out of breaks? Yes. Can he beat press coverage? Yes. If you want to hang onto your notion that he is a limited WR that's fine, but I am fully confident Coleman will not only be a high draft pick, I am also confident that he will be a very good NFL WR.

I really like Shepard, but I don't see him as a speed receiver in the same sense. IMO Shepard is more quick than fast, and more of a slot/move the chains type than a deep threat.

I love what Camp can do when he is on the field, but of course he has to be on the field to make plays. We can talk about his potential all day, but he has to stay healthy. I think he can be a real playmaker for us as a slot WR and gadget player. I'm hoping he can stay healthy because it will be a big boost for the offense.

I've admitted his flaws as I see them. Where he runs his routes is not a flaw, it's called a system. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. He really doesn't allow that many passes into his frame, that would be an inaccurate statement. I have watched every single one of his games that are available online so I have done the research. I haven't charted every route run or every drop, but what I have done is consistently noted WR specific traits that translate to the NFL. He doesn't have bad hands as you seem to be insinuating. His catching technique is good, he plucks the ball away from his frame the vast majority of the time. He could be stronger at the point of attack in some cases, but it's not a fatal flaw or a consistent problem. He makes catches in traffic.

By one blogger. I'll trust my eyes over someone else's that has no better credentials than you or I. It's not as if one of the most respected analysts in the media and former Ravens scout Daniel Jeremiah has him as his WR1 Pretty much exactly what I have said from the beginning. OR you could ask Josh Norris, who writes for a real website and also has Coleman as his WR1 and #3 overall player So we can play this game all day long. You have your opinion, I have mine. I'm not going to hold the offensive system against the player when I see rare athletic and explosive traits in a WR. I don't see a player that shies away from contact or is unwilling to go over the middle. Drops are a concern, but not a big enough concern to negate the rest of the awesomness. Amari Cooper led the league in drops this past season, does that mean he's a bad WR?

No differently than in the scenarios I put forth. He's more versatile than that, and it's silly to try to say he should only play one role on defense when he clearly can do far more that that.

This has nothing to do with where his drops were or what percentage of his routes went over the middle, so no you didn't do any research, you copied and pasted someone else's research that has nothing to do with the point you were trying, but failed, to make.

Patriots give: QB Jimmy Garoppolo (.5 stars) Rams give: Round 4 pick 12 and CB E.J. Gaines (.5 stars)

You are making up stats, and you know it.

He does a lot more than your average Will LB, so why pigeonhole him?

Yeah he plays ILB next to Mosley in base D. He can be moved around though which is a huge benefit. You can play big nickel with him as your third in the box safety. You can play 4-3 with him as a Will, we saw this at times with Orr on the field, but Jack would obviously be a huge upgrade over Daryl Smith in coverage. You can line him up over TEs or WRs in the slot. He just gives the defense a ton of versatility.

I haven't been able to come across a great comp for Thomas. I see a bit of Brandon Marshall in that he's a big guy with sudden movements, but Marshall is a rare talent in how he uses his size to create separation. I'm not sure I see that in Thomas.

Yeah, I think he would be a huge asset in our offense with Flacco's arm. He might drop a couple deep ones, but chances are he will take 10 more to the house. I think the DeSean comp is pretty spot on, but Fuller isn't the headcase.

I thought about a couple guys, but I think the DT/DE position is pretty strong right now for the Ravens. They could use a guy who can rush from the interior, but outside of the first round I'm not sure I see many guys in this draft who will be able to bring that ability. If Bob Nkemdiche would somehow fall to the 2nd or maybe even a Kenny Clark, I think I'd take them ahead of a WR.