balfan23

I think the whole London experiment is whack.

I'm confused by the players, who on one hand hated Goodell for wielding too much power over them in terms of suspensions and fines, but now are happy to pile on him because he didn't levy a harsh enough initial punishment on Rice and now are upset about him going the "double jeopardy" route, because of the outcry (which includes their own protests).

You can't have it both ways. 

So what course of action does the NFL take on AP? It is called a no-win situation. 

Different people have different philosophy around discipline. These philosophies have gradually changed over the years. The old adage. "spare the rod, spoil the child" sounds incredibly archaic today. My upbringing is different than my children. My wife and I agreed long before having children, that under no circumstance will we use physical punishment as a means to guide our children. 

I was raised in a home where physical means of discipline were applied. However, this never involved use of an implement that could cause harm. In almost all cases, it was an open hand. That is a far cry from using a switch to break skin on a 4 year old. I don't think there will be any way that AP escapes some significant punishment from the league, given the backlash from the Rice incident. But the league office will take a hit no matter what they do, because they have become such a despised entity.

I was thinking about this earlier, and I have a different opinion of sorts. Ok so the man always gets the blame in these types of situations. If they caused it, and what not ok fine they deserve punishment. Yet what about the times where the woman provokes the man to do something or any type of false accusations. Now let's take in dating a NFL player. Bare with me on this, Goodell said 6 games for first offense, a lifetime ban for a second. If she were to provoke him to get him angry enough to strike back, doesn't this in a way put more power to them and take away power from the NFL player?

 

Knowing this new rule, if she gets mad enough at him, she provokes the player to hit her, or she can go running to the police claiming domestic violence. Thus knowing two things, she is in control and can now take away his dream of playing in the NFL over nothing. In the public eye, she will always be the victim so she knows she could make a false accusation and essentially take away his career from him. 

 

I wonder if Goodell has some exception where that would be the case and the player doesn't get any suspension if at any point it was proven to be a false accusation or if she provoked the player to get that reaction.

This is why "set in stone" punishments don't work. Rulings like "3 strikes and you're out" make for nice public relations sound bytes, but ultimately turn draconian, where the punishments applied in many cases clearly overreach the crime. The same goes for mandatory sentencing guidelines for drug offenses, which have swelled our prisons to the bursting point and caused the need for violent offenders to be granted parole to make room. That's what happens when you take "judgement" out of the equation. 

One would assume that judgement was used in the initial ruling by the league, but Goodell has felt backed into a corner. He decided to bow to the shrieks of a reactionary public, who are fueled by a sensational media, and came to a conclusion that the safest way to deal with the problem from a public relations standpoint was to take the approach that all domestic violence cases are created equal (which is obviously not the case) and that penalties must be made uniform. 

Article by a Plain Dealer writer on that

 

http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2014/08/cleveland_browns_79.html

 

I didn't realize it takes 4 "incidents" before you get suspended for the drug policy. And, considering players have laughed at the testing for being too obvious, the people who actually get suspended must be dolts.

Good article ... but his logic is not going to be shared by the fan base he writes for. I've popped out on ESPN's site and sure enough, virtually every post from a Browns fan is about Ray. 

Can't wait for all the shrieking from Browns fans about this - particularly as they will drag up the Ray Rice suspension ... since that is the suspension that will be talked about for years, when people think their player was too harshly punished by the league. 

Did they increase the number of defensive holding, illegal contact and illegal use of the hands penalties by 40% in the 2015 version? Now THAT would make this game realistic ...

If I hear one more announcer tell us that this is "a point of emphasis" again, I'm going to lose my mind. 

Brandon Head-Hunter suspended 2 games!!! Hahahaha!

Thank goodness Torrey seems to be OK. The league is really moving from penalties to fines to game suspensions.

Now comes the tirade from Redskin fans and other Ravens haters as to how domestic violence and what they will view as an errant hit can draw the same suspension. 

I think the Germans will win this one. To be honest, with the amount of talent they had on that team over the years, it's long overdue. I'll be cheering for Argentina, though. Gotta love the underdog. Also, living in Germany, I just want to see the reaction in this country, if they lose. Everyone is soooo sure they'll win.

Huh ... I lived in Germany when they won in 1990. I rooted for them then because I wanted to see the pandemonium. I continue to root for them, simply because of my having lived there for 5 yeas and having made good friends that are still there and who are ardent supporters of their national soccer team. 

balfan23 - your comment was that when a run on RBs occurred those teams who grabbed a back were "late to the party". So which teams in your opinion panicked? Was Carlos Hyde a bad choice? How about Jeremy Hill, Terrence West? You asked who I would have given up; Mosely is the answer. Not because he isn't talented, but because of how that selection impacted our draft. Had we taken Clinton-Dix, or Pryor we wouldn't have had to settle for a less talented safety at 79. And I'm clearly not as excited about Jernigan as some are who graded him as a 1st rounder. I think he is undersized for an NFL NT and he disappeared at times in college - took himself out of the game in the 4th quarter of the national championship game. That's really disappointing to me. We needed to fill the void left by Arthur Jones' defection, but I think we pulled the trigger too early when a talented guy like Louis Nix doesn't come off the board until the 83rd pick. There were a lot of offensive playmakers available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, guys who you could argue were also 1st round caliber. and per our own FO we needed to be very smart in this draft, because we had a lot of holes to fill. I'm just disappointed that among the top tier TEs, WRs and RBs we landed exactly none of them.

Beachboy - we'll just have to see how it plays out. I know it is a disappointing to not have us get guys you've hoped for. I would have loved for us to have gotten West in the 3rd, but not at the expense of Brooks. I wanted us to get Lattimer in the 2nd and was a little disappointed to see us take Jernigan, but in the end, I see their line of thinking. Hopefully he turns out better than you anticipate. And yeah, I don't know what the deal was with Nix. 

As far as Mosely vs Dix/Pryor. Apparently the FO didn't think the separation between Dix/Pryor and the guy we got (Brooks) was significant enough to warrant passing on a guy like Mosely - who they apparently believe will be the QB of our defense for years to come. If that doesn't happen, a few years down the road this draft will not be getting good grades ... but I hope for our team's sake they are right and we come up roses. 

balfan23 - I would have gladly "settled" for any one of those RBs taken in that run. If staying true to our process means waiting too long, then perhaps we should rethink the process. Every draft is different based on the talent that is available, your draft position, number of picks and type of picks. To my way of thinking the key to a successful draft is to be flexible and remain open minded to an opportunity that presents itself rather than stick to a process.

Yes - each draft is different, but all of the variables you stated (talent, your draft position, # and type of picks) are known going in. You spend months preparing. There is a fine line between reacting appropriately to changing market conditions and panic. Anticipating how the market will change is a part of the planning. You don't react to those changing conditions by throwing the plan out the window. 

Which of our picks would you have given up? Jernigan, to pick up either Sankey, Hill, Hyde, Sims or Mason; or Brooks to pick up West, McKinnon or Archer? Which ever your answer, it really comes down to player evaluation. Clearly our FO ranked our selections over these RBs and you did not. It is your evaluation vs. theirs - and not their process that you are finding fault with, it would seem. 

If you think you're going to develop a Pro Bowl candidate from the list of Reid, Jensen and Wagner you need a reality check. 

If the FO thinks that ... then I would be concerned. That seems like a pretty high risk bet. I just don't think we're going to stand pat after the draft. Once the dust settles, we'll know where the remaining holes are and we've left ourselves enough dry gunpowder (cap space) to go get some help. Will it be pro-bowl level help? Of course not ... that's not available at this point. But quality help at the O line should be available. As the article states, I expect we go after Winston ... who I do think will be a solid stop gap to future additions or potentially the development of Wagner. 

Doesn't it seem that, if so many teams are drafting offense, that some of those teams ahead of us are reaching? When there is a "run" on a position, inevitably those late to the party are drafting someone based on their position and not their relative skill.

The Ravens don't do that - it is called discipline. In any market type scenario (which the draft is a super high stakes market) the importance of discipline is paramount. We are staying true to our process. That's a good thing.

I wonder if Kubiak has created a login and is venting on this thread. "Hey guys, remember me?" :-)

Welcome Mr. Jernigan. Great to have you on board. Looking forward to you helping the Ravens continue their tradition of defensive excellence. Play like a Raven!

Morgan Moses is a monster!Terrence Brooks is would also be a good pick.

I'd love for it to be Moses, but I just can't see him making it past the first 16 tonight. In my attempts to mock this draft, I never had him available to us mid-second round. I assumed James would still be there and that's a guy I thought would be a legit target for our 2nd rounder, but wow - taken #19 overall. 

If Kouandjio falls to us and we take him, the Bama bashers will blow a gasket.

I had been hoping for Juwann James in the second. I posted that before the draft and got lit up by some who said taking him mid-2nd round was a reach ... If mid-2nd was a reach ... how about mid-1st round?

He's going to start from Day 1.  Bynes has seen his last down on defense, Brown will see time in the nickel and Mosley will play beside Smith from the start.

This is the first Day 1 starter we've taken who will start because of talent alone since Grubbs.

Another thing people are overlooking I think is the leadership standpoint for Mosley.  This is the guy who will run the defense when Smith is gone and the guy who will be that kind of "it" guy for the defense when Ngata and Suggs are gone.  When Suggs leaves there's going to be a real void from those nasty defenses of the past.  Mosley has the ability to keep it going and have teams be wary of where he is on the field.

I think he's a player, but I think the item I bolded is the real difference ... it is what made us place him at 10 on our boards. Many will say that ILB is a devalued position, but those who play the position that can effectively take on the role of the "QB of the defense" - they have great value and are absolutely critical in terms of reacting to what the opposing QB is doing. 

This move is not a complete dismissal of Brown and his viability as much as it is probably a recognition that we don't see him as taking on that specific role after Smith moves on. That is likely what we have in mind for C.J.

Garrett had an interview with Ozzie a few days ago:

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/OneOnOne_Ozzie_Reveals_Ravens_Draft_Plans/375ccc8e-b15c-468c-9d9f-901687beb2f2

I didn't pay much attention to it, because it just seems like you don't know what is truth and what is smoke when listening to GMs just before the draft. However, there was a comment early on in the interview that was telling ... I just didn't know it at the time. Garrent named 3 key positions of need (saftey, O line and WR) where we've added players during the FA period. Then he asked, "when you look to the draft, what positions do you say we need to address"

The answer "inside linebacker" came out of Ozzie without a moment of hesitation.

I was shocked, with Dix and Pryor on the board that we didn't take the best of the 2. If I only listened and could filter smoke from truth, I would have known. This was not smoke.

Suffering now from a shallow FS class.

Mayock knows his stuff. I was surprised by his mock taking CJ over Dix. But Dix AND Pryor? Staying true to the BPA

I'll be interested in hearing what the outcome was of his planned talk with Ozzie this past Friday (if this meeting indeed even took place). If he impresses the brass that he's sincere about making a comeback the question is ... can he walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

He'll need to prove that he's willing to pay some serious dues. No matter what he does, he'll not see much of the field in the early going and will need to be willing to be primarily a ST player. If he makes the team, he'll have to realize that he may work his butt off during the week and may still find himself on the inactive list for game day. 

No matter what he says, that is going to take a serious swallowing of ego ... and having been a top prospect and #8 overall pick .. that could be a lot to swallow. For us, it is probably worth giving it a shot, but that is a lot to overcome. 

“I’ve got two little boys that look up and depend on me every day ..."

If that isn't motivation to get your act together, I don't know what is. 

They plan to make him a long term fix on our Oline somewhere, and im willing to bet its at center. And if he plays to his potential this year, dont be surprised if we lock him in long term, to sure up out OLINE.

I have a feeling they are not going to wait to see how he does this year to make a commitment - I think they made a commitment by trading for him. He's carrying a $4.5M hit to the 2014 cap and that is substantial for his overall pay grade. I foresee us working out an extended deal sooner, rather than later.