TXRavensFan

I watched the commercial and I will say this: Joe's hair is elite!

Actually you are the only one who has said this...and only once before.  So you are saying that a player cannot go on the PUP list during training camp? that doesnt make sense, however I will check with other reliable sources. I am not saying you are or are not reliable. I want additional information. later.

He is correct. If a player practices even one day of training camp, he is not eligible for the PUP.

Oh, well thanks for that random message board commenter.  Now I feel much better.

That random "commenter" is Dr. Bobby Esbrandt, a rehabilitation specialist and the doctor "on staff" at the Ravens SB Nation blog Baltimore Beatdown. If it would make you feel better to read a more in depth analysis, here is the article he wrote on the subject: http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2015/8/21/9182471/perrimans-injury-and-past-medical-history-is-there-cause-for-concern

I think we are all well aware of this by now

Apparently not...

the problem with this injury is its a genetic disease that causes the knee joint to be inflamed with slightest work or movement, let alone a physical sport like football. the only thing the ravens will do now is let it heal, and even when he's healed up they have to limit his snaps too. so Ozzie will have to add a speedster WR after roster cuts.

All the particular troubles with Perriman's injury aside, go back to early April when us fans were pleading that Oz and Harbs should get over this mentality that WRs are 'crapshoots' and how we haven't drafted one succesfully in the 1st round ever and that high a pick is too valuable to waste for a franchise with a cursed history of never producing a homegrown pro bowl calibre WR etc etc.

In hindsite you kinda get Harbs' fear. We just expended a precious 1st rounder on a kid who could be plagued with excruciating pain in his knees for his entire career.

Baltimore- the land where we develop amazing defenders; run the ball; and occassionally try to poach proven vets in the pass game in free agency.

I think the Ravens are embarrassed that they didn't pick up on this genetic knee problem (assuming that's what's holding Perriman back). Their #1 pick and they missed something crucial like that. Or maybe they knew about it, but mistakenly thought it wouldn't be a problem. Either way, it doesn't look good for the front office. It's obvious that something is wrong. It has been a month and his knee condition seems to be the same. There's a huge problem. And the comments have been the same: "he'll be back soon . . . maybe he'll play next week . . ." etc etc. They're not admitting anything outside of the front office. Hopefully inside the front office they're being more realistic and doing some serious planning. But this is obviously not what they thought would happen. Someone missed something.

It's Osgood-Schatlers disease. People say it doesn't effect grownups but plenty of people that developed it as kids and continued repetitive stress with sports experience pain well into adulthood.

If you guys really want to bring genetics into it, he got it from his father; Osgood-Schlatter's affected Brett Perriman's playing career precisely 0%

Not playing is one thing, not practicing is another thing....but being shielded (that's a kind word) from the media for a month, as a 1st round pick, is reason for huge concern. The Ravens are shocked and still scratching their heads at the fact that they selected a genic bad knee as a 1st round pick. Had they known. Perriman would not have been their first selection. It' over and done and Mr. Perriman is still a real talent. We are all hoping Mr. Perriman recovers soon and has a healthy and productive career going forward.

Aside from your last two sentences, this entire post is incorrect. Dr. Bobby Esbrandt linked to an article about Osgood-Schlatter and his current condition earlier in this thread. I recommend reading it, but if you don't, the reader's digest version is this: O-S affects adolescents and is no longer a factor once the bones have stopped growing. There is no link to his current kneee condition, and there are no lingering effects that would affect his athletic performance going forward.

This argument about the lack of game plan sounds legit - but what about the Eagles? They had a game plan?

Probably not, but I think the point is that it's more difficult to succeed with a vanilla base defense against an unconventional offense. By definition, playing against anything unconventional requires a certain level of planning.

People seriously need to chill with Perriman's injury. Some medical facts:

The pain symptoms associated with Osgood-Schlatter's resolve on their own once the adolescent stops growing and reaches skeletal maturity. Given Perriman's age (nearly 22) and impressive stature (6'3", 210 lbs), I think it's safe to say he doesn't have another growth spurt left in tank.

It is important to understand that this is NOT a lifelong issue and Perriman's current injury and extended absence from practice is completely unrelated. The ONLY lingering side effect into adulthood is the presence of a more prominent tibial tuberosity.

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2015/8/21/9182471/perrimans-injury-and-past-medical-history-is-there-cause-for-concern

With appropriate management, most patients with a minor to moderate PCL tear (grades 1 and 2) can return to sport or normal activity within 2 – 8 weeks.

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/10200450/pcl-tear-posterior-cruciate-ligament-pcl-injur.htm

The severity of Perriman's sprain will dictate how long he can be expected to be sidelined. Grade I and II PCL sprains are treated non-surgically and can take several weeks to recover from. Grade III PCL tears typically require surgical intervention. Given the handling of Perriman's injury thus far, I imagine he suffered a Grade I sprain. If this is true, I would anticipate seeing him back in action within the next two weeks.

- Bobby Esbrandt, PT, DPT, PES

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2015/8/21/9182471/perrimans-injury-and-past-medical-history-is-there-cause-for-concern

I read from BB or something that he was walking fine and catching balls from Renner. I'm seriously getting tired of ESPN. Drama, sophist reporting and ego stroking is all its good for.

Exactly. Here's a tweet from Turron Davenport when asked about Perriman. Based on his coverage of the Ravens, I trust this to be an honest answer:

TURRON DAVENPORT ‏@TDavenport_NFL 9h9 hours ago

TURRON DAVENPORT retweeted Marcus Wyche

Has brace no real limp

That would be quite an interesting year for a QB

Pffft. That's not even 2,000 yards a game.

"Ravens defensive backs will be seeing Jordan Matthews in their sleep over the next couple of days. Nobody on the Ravens has been able to match up." (Jeff Zrbiec, Baltimore Sun)

 

I understand that on this website it's primarily the good news and stories that we're getting. But I don't think we should be spared the not-so-good ones. Reading the joined practice news on this site one would conclude that we absolutely dominated it. Reading other sites - and I'm not even talking about the Eagles' webiste - the story seems rather different...

 

It's still the camp, there's still two weeks of practicing and sharpening to do - I don't think we should be made believe we are already there. We will be.

The Philly reporters were way worse. If you want straight observations with no spin, I recommend following Turron Davenport (@TDavenport_NFL). He's quickly becoming the new Aaron Wilson. There were many Eagles fans in his timeline thanking him for his unbiased reports all throughout the joint practices.

that only affects you as a child...

True. I posted this article by Dr. Bobby Esbrandt (who provided the information in the update to this LFW) in another thread, but it might be good to post it here too. Some highlights:

The pain symptoms associated with Osgood-Schlatter's resolve on their own once the adolescent stops growing and reaches skeletal maturity. Given Perriman's age (nearly 22) and impressive stature (6'3", 210 lbs), I think it's safe to say he doesn't have another growth spurt left in tank.

 

It is important to understand that this is NOT a lifelong issue and Perriman's current injury and extended absence from practice is completely unrelated. The ONLY lingering side effect into adulthood is the presence of a more prominent tibial tuberosity [the bump at the top of the tibia, just under the knee cap].

And

The severity of Perriman's sprain will dictate how long he can be expected to be sidelined. Grade I and II PCL sprains are treated non-surgically and can take several weeks to recover from. Grade III PCL tears typically require surgical intervention. Given the handling of Perriman's injury thus far, I imagine he suffered a Grade I sprain. If this is true, I would anticipate seeing him back in action within the next two weeks.

 

- Bobby Esbrandt, PT, DPT, PES

I can see it now...Williams takes Ray's spot as the last player introduced...runs out of the tunnel...stops and breaks into "the Carlton"...ummm, no...lol

Glad to see we aren't the only ones who recognize Joe's value.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20150821_In_Joe_Flacco__Ravens_have_what_Eagles_are_still_looking_for.html

Good read. Thanks for posting that.

Since people are flipping out over his injury, and making a lot of assumptions based on his history with Osgood-Schlatter's, I thought I'd post this article from Dr. Bobby Esbrandt (the doctor "on staff" over at Baltimore Beatdown). It's well worth the read.

Many Ravens fans have been panicking recently in response to media reports that Breshad Perriman battled Osgood-Schlatter disease as an adolescent. However, is there a valid reason for their concerns?

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2015/8/21/9182471/perrimans-injury-and-past-medical-history-is-there-cause-for-concern

I'll go ya 1better.......he will not be playing........maybe all year(i hope i'm wrong).......Still a good pick? Hey i watch every play and want to win every game.......but this guy ain't gonna get it.....

With appropriate management, most patients with a minor to moderate PCL tear (grades 1 and 2) can return to sport or normal activity within 2 – 8 weeks.

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/10200450/pcl-tear-posterior-cruciate-ligament-pcl-injur.htm

Been a fan of this team(Art Modell,I stayed with the humans) since the 70's, I just call em like i see em.......perriman really seems like a slug....i'm pissed!!  he's a #1 pick! and he's got a condition that he may never play pro ball if he ever gets hammered in the leg(which is bound to happen).....and we picked him?   smh

That's simply not the case. Here's the first reply to the article on Baltimore Beatdown about Perriman and Osgood-Schlatter from Dr. Bobby Esbrandt (he's also the guy that caused the update to the LFW article this morning):

Not Related At All

Perriman having Osgood Schlatter’s as an adolescent has absolutely no impact on his condition now or the Ravens handling of him. It is 100% a non-issue.

 

by Bobby Esbrandt on Aug 19, 2015 | 7:29 PM

Also:

TURRON DAVENPORT ‏@TDavenport_NFL 11h11 hours ago

Perriman on the sideline catching a few passes from Renner.

Relax.

Sounds like it a very minor skirmish between guys lower on the depth chart on the Ravens and Eagles squads. Supposedly broken up right away by Tebow. Can't imagine a Cowboys/Rams level fight erupting when the coaches warned the players against fighting before the trip. Think we will be chillin' enough to avoid a circus side show.

Jeff Zrebiec ‏@jeffzrebiecsun 3h3 hours ago

First altercation between two teams. But was broken up quickly. Asa Jackson looked to be Raven involved.

Jamison Hensley ‏@jamisonhensley 3h3 hours ago

First skirmish of #Ravens-#Eagles joint practice. It was #Ravens' 2nd-team defense. Looked like Tim Tebow stepped in to calm everyone down.

I guess this settles the debate. Joe Flacco's hair is elite!

What I'm wondering about Perriman is whether it is indeed good news that there's no new injury, "it just heals slow". If this slower-than-normal healing is a tendency, it might be far worse news than a slightly more serious-than-thought injury. NFL players tend to obtain minor injuries on a regular basis (how many players have said the "no NFL-player is 100% healthy after week 1"?). If Perriman tends to heal slower than normal, it might mean a lot of "unnecessarily" missed practices and games... We know that Torrey played half his rookie season with a sports hernia (and we didn't even suspect until te news actually came out, well into the off season). Can Perriman play through "playable" injuries? Can his body cope with the increased load the NFL means?

 

Bothering questions...

Everyone seems to be getting all worked up for a injury that takes a while to heal - for everyone:

What is the normal treatment for a bone bruise?

I usually recommend bracing or other immobilization of the area to allow it time to heal and to protect it from additional injury that can be caused by bearing weight on the injured area.  Activities also need to be restricted during this healing period, particularly sports play, which can result in additional acute trauma, causing greater injury and/or prolonging the healing time.

How long do you normally expect recovery to take?

Recovery can take several months because the inner layer of bone takes longer to heal than the outer bone.

http://www.tsaog.com/connect-learn-interact/blog/2013/03/06/dr-marvin-brown-on-why-bone-bruise-is-a-misnomer/

I dunno about you guys but i'm already sick of perriman...........put him out for the year and let him sit because he's not coming back this year at 100%.....makes campanaro look durable!! Please end the drama which we don't need and sit him!!

Dude, calm down.

IR-DR.  Injured reserved with designation to return.

I don't think they put him on the IR. All indications are that the injury isn't major, but it is taking longer than expected to heal. He is expected to be back sometime in camp, and even if he were forced to miss the first regular season game, they'll probably keep him on the active roster (if he goes on the IR-DR, he would have to sit out the first 6 games).

if I'm not mistaken brown returned to practice the other day? Meanwhile perriman got an MRI done yesterday. Don't know why that wasn't done immediately but whatever, not particularly the news I wanted to hear but maybe this will finally reveal its nothing serious. Staying optimistic.

Brown dressed and jogged around during individual drills but that's about it. He has done that a couple times over the last couple weeks but no real running.

Periman must have had a slight tear and I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't his second mri..

Jeff Zrebiec ‏@jeffzrebiecsun 7m7 minutes ago

An MRI revealed no additional damage to Ravens rookie WR Breshad Perriman's knee, but he's still sidelined. http://fw.to/6PflZ0W 

Wait, what? When did I move the goal posts?

 

I haven't changed the discussion at all. It was you who assumed I meant something that I didn't. When you calculate yards for football, you don't count the yards behind the line of scrimmage or the horizontal yards. If we did that then you are saying what was a 45 yard TD pass should have been +3 yards for behind the line of scrimmage and then another 11 from it going from the hash to the numbers. Schaub threw a 59 yard TD pass then and the NFL has it all wrong. You go ahead and put a feather in your own cap if you want to, but nobody else is going to buy your extra yardage.

 

So what is indisputable is the pass was about 50/50 Schaub's arm (24 yards through the air past the LOS and no, hashmark to numbers yards don't count. Only vertical yardage counts in the NFL) and Camp's legs (21 yards YAC). It was a broken coverage and it was only a TD because Camp made somebody miss him down field. It took vision from Schaub to see the broken coverage, the ability to deliver the ball to Camp and he did well on that. It also took good work from Camp. I am happy to see that Schaub can still capitalize on broken coverages and that his short to mid range game looks pretty good. That's what he's always been known for.

Simply put "yards in the air" (as you originally stated) does not equal yards from scrimmage, or yards credited on a reception.

Let me put it this way, when Flacco throws a quick 5 yard sideline pass in tight coverage from one hashmark to the far sideline, and the announcer says something to the effect that "that's not a pass that just any QB could make," it's not because the ball traveled downfield 5 yards from the line of scrimmage, it's because the ball actually traveled almost 31 yards in the air. Your current reasoning is akin to saying "it's not that impressive because he's only credited with a 5 yard pass."

Once again, you originally critiqued Schaubs's arm strength by claiming the TD throw to Camp only traveled "20 yards in the air". That was obviously an incorrect statement, and once I demonstrated that the ball actually traveled 33 yards in the air, you started talking about yards from scrimmage, broken coverages, YAC, and various other points that have no bearing on how far that ball actually traveled in the air (which, again, was the only point I made).

Right, so you can toss out about 1/3 of the yardage you are using because the NFL doesn't measure yards behind the line of scrimmage or horizontal yards. Those aren't my rules, that's how the stats are kept. When you say a QB doesn't throw the ball more than 20 yards down the field...that is exactly what you mean. Vertically, down the field.

Two things: first, he is credited with a 45 yard pass, so the yardage is actually more than what I stated; second, your original statement was about how far the ball traveled in the air, not how many yards downfield the throw was. I quoted you twice (this is the third time), and the fact is, regardless of you wishing not to acknowledge it and insisting on "moving the goalposts", the ball traveled 33 yards in the air. That is indisputable, and the only point I made.

Whenever anyone says that a point I am making is irrelevant, I know the conversation is over. The points is, Schaub didn't throw a 45 yard bomb. It was a 20-25 yard pass and the rest was YAC. Just because he can complete a pass to a wide open WR in blown coverage doesn't mean he got the zip back on his arm...as I had mentioned the only really deep pass he tried to Butler down the sideline in another post. It looked like it hit some rain clouds along the way. He had a good night on moslty short to mid range passing. His biggest play came on a broken assignment from a linebacker in zone coverage to let Camp get wide open. An NFL QB should be able to hit a pass like that. Schaub did and he had a good game. Even the announcers said he is a Jekyl and Hyde performer. When he's on he's great, when he's off it is really bad....and these were our homer announcers saying this. Bottom line is, Schaub has A LOT to prove after his two pretty awful seasons. One good pre season game against backups isn't quite enough for me to feel confident in him. I hope he is good to go and has something in the tank just in case we need him. I'm a Ravens fan and I want my team to win.

Likewise, when someone continually changes the basis of discussion, there was never an honest conversation to begin with. You can bring up his other passes, overall performance, how much yardage with which he is credited, or what have you, but all of that is still irrelevant to the fact that the TD pass he threw to Camp traveled 33 yards in the air, not 20.

That 45 yard TD pass was about maybe 20 yards in the air and 25 Campanaro's legs. t.

I watched the replay and the LOS was the 45. Schaub did a long drop back and then crow hopped back towards the LOS to around the 49/50 ish. If Camp catches it at the 21....how does 49-21= 31? To me, that is 28 yards. But in the NFL, you don't get credit for the yards the ball is in the air behind the LOS. Nor do you get credit for horizontal yards. So with actual football statistics he had 24 yards through the air (45 to the 21) and then there was 21 YAC by Camp.

In the first quote you are using how many "yards in the air" the ball was thrown to support your argument that Schaub has lost arm strength. I simply pointed out that the ball traveled 33 yards in the air, not 20 as you claimed. The issue of many many yards he is credited for the completion was irrelevant to your argument and my response.

As far as the distance, on the replay he is clearly on the Ravens side of the 50 - I estimated at the Ravens 48. From this screen grab, one can see where he ended up after taking a couple of steps forward due to the momentum of the throw:

So, 50-21 = 29; 29+2 = 31. Accounting for the 11 yards from the hash to the numbers, the total distance "in the air", as I mentioned, was 33 yards (regardless of him being credited for a 45 yard completion).