TXRavensFan

Let me further clarify so that you don't misunderstand, "phone records" is not the same as "text messages." If we take this quote from Brady's statement, "We even contacted the phone company to see if there was any possible way we could retrieve any/all of the actual text messages from my old phone" it's clear that what they provided the NFL was simply a list of numbers and times that text messages were sent/received, without the actual messages themselves (which were actually requested). The chain of events therefore looks like this: - Brady is informed that investigators want him to testify and have access to relevant text messages - Brady destroys his phone and sim card, then refuses to provide access to the texts - Brady waits until just before the appeal hearing to inform the NFL that the phone was destroyed (conveniently long enough ago that any text messages retained by his carrier would have been purged) and then send a lists of "phone records" to the NFL (which were not requested). - Brady claims that he cooperated by sending an "unprecedented" amount of personal information to the league, in an effort to combat the "non-cooperation" charge, and claim that he used extraordinary measured to try to obtain the actual texts. What really doesn't add up is that if, as Brady says, "...my attorneys made it clear to the NFL that my actual phone device would not be subjected to investigation under ANY circumstances. As a member of a union, I was under no obligation to set a new precedent going forward...", why would his team then "[exhaust] every possibility to give the NFL everything we could and offered to go thru the identity for every text and phone call during the relevant time."? Just my own opinion, but it sure smells like an empty gesture to show the courts in a future lawsuit that he really did cooperate, all the while fully knowing that the actual information requested would never be retrievable.

Unfortunately, because you continue to disregard the seriousness of spoliation of evidence, your entire response is largely irrelevant. You also continue to look to precedents for a situation that is without one. As far as legal analyses go, I hope you read the one that Tanked linked to, as it is one of the most recent and includes the destroyed cell phone into the author's opinion. To continue Tank's quote: "Since Brady purposefully instructed his assistant to destroy his phone on the same day of his interview with Ted Wells, I would fully expect the NFL to seek spoliation sanctions. These sanctions can include the outright dismissal of a case, monetary penalties, or the dreaded adverse inference jury instruction. This means that if Brady or the NFLPA sues the NFL, the judge could instruct a jury that they are allowed to draw an inference that the evidence contained in Brady’s phone would have been unfavorable to his case. In most circumstances, an adverse inference is akin to an outright dismissal of the case since the jury (or sometimes the judge) is allowed to assume that whatever evidence was destroyed would have made the destroying party look awful. There is no doubt that the NFL’s legal team will pursue an adverse inference. In Goodell’s decision letter, he states: Finally, in footnote 12 of Goodell’s decision, he hints that Brady was acting under the advice of his attorneys. If true, his attorneys could also face severe sanctions, and even potential disbarment, if they actually ordered the destruction of highly relevant evidence. At this point, both the NFL and Brady appear set for a lengthy court battle. However, Brady’s chances of success are drastically reduced due to his willful destruction of evidence. Even attempting to gain an injunction becomes exponentially more difficult as Brady’s likelihood of success on his overall claim is clouded by the lingering civil sanctions for destroying his phone."

As I recall, the only report of drops was during one minicamp session, but that he caught everything else.

Destroying the phone is considered spoliation of evidence, and is a pretty serious deal in the justice system. I have serious doubts that a judge will look upon it as trivially as you seem to think. As noted in Goodell's letter denying the appeal, it goes far beyond simple failure to cooperate, and moves the infraction to an area without precedent when applying the punishment. Brady's boneheaded move basically wipes out the argument that the penalties you describe (and it's including, but not limited to a $25,000 fine) hold any value as precedents in this case. Also keep in mind that Ray Farmer was given a 4 game suspension for texting the Brown's bench during a game. Explain to me how Brady's punishment is disproportionate to that one?

Some more fodder for thought from football outsiders: Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar Who throws the deepest deep ball? Sorted by average air yards. Maybe RG3 & RT can learn from PM & AR. Quicker throw

What some people seem to be forgetting is that this is a labor issue that would be taken to court - the federal court will not be re-trying the case to determine Brady's guilt or innocence, so different levels of "proof" are largely irrelevant. Federal courts are notoriously reluctant to hear such cases once they've been through arbitration. In essence, any court case would be Brady arguing that the arbitration was not fair and did not conform to the procedures outlined in the CBA and accepted when he signed his contract or that the NFL violated its own rules in the process. Most commentators agree that this is basically his only chance of winning such a case, and I'm not so sure how good the odds are, since the CBA gives Goodell the ability to determine punishments AND act as an arbitrator.

Why are there 3 threads on this topic? Kinda confusing.

Could be referring to his pic from the Instagram photo feature on the main site:

I looked this up a few months ago out of sheer curiosity. Based on his NFL.com draft grade, he would have been tied for second highest rated TE in the last class, tied with Troy Niklaus, and only behind Ebron. The previous years used a different grading scale so I couldn't compare.

No wonder he got an extension - not only is he a decent coach, but he also helps out on special teams when needed!

The courts generally don't want to get involved in labor disputes, and the bar is notoriously high for a court to overturn a decision made by an arbiter. Brady would have to prove that the arbitration process was unfair, and considering the CBA gives the commissioner the power to hand out punishments as well as hear appeals, I can't see how Brady has any advantage (Goodell even authorized someone else to determine the punishment giving him even more "neutrality" in the appeal). I'm hoping he does spend a bunch of money on lawyers to file suit, an injunction is issued for the suspension, then the case is heard and the suspension is upheld just in time for the start of the playoffs. That would be hilarious.

I did read somewhere that Cam Worthy was placed on the PUP list.

Eh, the "if you don't agree with me, you're a big fat homer" argument isn't exactly how it works... Anywho, regardless of what you think of the rankings, I challenge you to re-read the criteria used to determine the tiers and explain how the description of Tier 1 is not a summary of Flacco's career (at least since 2010, acknowledging that he was more or less a caretaker in his first 2 years). Then explain to me how a QB that in his 10 year career has only thrown over 3,500 yards 5 times, played in all 16 games 4 times, hasn't won a playoff game since 2010, and has never won a playoff game without a top 5 defense is ranked ahead of him, let alone meets the criteria for Tier 1.

What I find interesting is that the main criticisms of Flacco are even more true when applied to Wilson (depends on defense and a strong running game, inconsistent, doesn't put up great individual passing stats, etc). Thus, I am always amused when these lists put Wilson above Flacco. Granted, Wilson is off to a quicker start when it comes to the post-season, but Joe has demonstrated the ability to put his team on his back and ride his arm to a championship. Who knows, maybe Wilson is capable of doing so in the future, but as of now he hasn't had to (if ever the Dilfer analogy is appropriate in terms of what a QB is asked to do - not in terms of talent - it is with Wilson). This also brings attention to the fact that Joe has sustained this level of success for a much longer period than has Wilson, which should also merit consideration.

See below lol | | | v

With Pitta expected to start the season one the PUP list, I can see them going with 7 receivers to start the season. Doing so, they can keep a guy like Waller from going on the Practice Squad, where I doubt he'd last more than a day. It will also give them six extra weeks to evaluate these guys before Pitta comes back and they need the roster spot. At that point they can decide who needs to go on the PS, or is even cut.

That was the impression I got as well - it was about Boyle not hustling off the field. Part of the Ravens' culture is that they expect everyone to hustle at all times (e.g., running from drill to drill at practice).

I agree. I think one of the things that went under the radar during that process was that Jack Kent Cooke wanted to claim the Baltimore market for the Redskins, much like the Orioles dominated the combined market for decades. I don't know if the numbers have changed, but at the time Baltimore-Washington was the 8th largest market (if I recall correctly). I have no doubt that his influence with Tagliabue was a major factor in Baltimore getting passed over.

Good information on Maxx, but he was looking for a source about using Waller as a TE.

He sucks and Dickson is better because Gilmore only lined up for 41% of the offensive snaps last year? That's just crazy talk.

Those workouts are usually a few hours over one weekend in the off season. Color me skeptical that a few hours playing a glorified game of catch has any influence on chemistry once the pads come on and the receivers have defenders in their faces.

Yeah, it's like #Gatetriots apologists point to the empirical evidence, which by nature cannot determine how the balls were deflated, and automatically claim there is no proof of anything. They ignore (or deflect) from all of the other evidence such as the deflator and his needle disappearing in a bathroom with the balls after they were checked, the texts, phone calls, and lying.

I think the issue he was bringing up wasn't about affording contracts for other players, rather it was about getting players to accept a deal that may be lower than Tucker's. I hadn't really thought about it, but it is an interesting thought. For example, we just signed a veteran nickel/slot cornerback in Kyle Arrington for about $3M per year. Most would agree that in the current pass-happy NFL that a nickel corner is essentially a starter, so the question would be, if Tucker was making $5M as a kicker, how likely would Arrington, a virtual starter on defense, accept a deal that was $2M less than the kicker's? I'm pretty sure that each position has its own market, but you can't help but wonder if such large contracts for kickers/punters might have an effect on the lower end of the market for other positions that see more significant playing time.

I have a feeling that with the competition at WR, Harbs will be looking to keep 7 at the beginning of the season. I also think Pitta will start the season on that IR designated to return list and when he comes back, they'll keep the 4 TE's and drop one WR who perhaps isn't performing up to expectations. If the WR competition is tight, this will give the coaches some extra time to evaluate them.