GrimCoconut

2 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

no i didnt. I said he's a boom or bust type and more likley the latter.

where is this crap coming from?

 

I raved about his first game vs denver

 

i wasnt a fan of the draft pick

You were definitely a fan of Davis.

I think the issue here is the swap more than it is the trade. If we got a pick without giving up a pick and Jernigan then I think there would be more love for the move. People praise Belichick for making moves like this and this is that type of move. We dropped him while his value is at its highest. I'm not a fan of the move honestly because I'd like to keep the DL intact since we've lost guys at virtually every level of the defense this year and have a shakeup already but have only added to that. 

1 minute ago, hn68wb4 said:

Then you must not watch much football. Makes sense given your other opinions actually.

What's ironic is Sami raved about Davis after we drafted him so I guess the Great Sami messed up, too.

Lots of replies here so I'll just say I'm replying to all those above. 

First, Anderson. I think Williams is certainly more explosive and bends better than Anderson but the problem I see with Williams is he takes himself out of the play and overpursues just like I've seen in guys like Smith. That will kill him at the next level. I may be too picky about it but that will be a major issue. Also, his character concerns are very concerning. This is why I like Anderson more for us than Williams. A prospect may have more potential than another, as is the case with Anderson and Williams, but Anderson could easily outperform Williams as a pro because talent and potential can only reach the level the prospect desires and that's where I love and hate Williams. He showed commitment to get his weight up and improve from last year but these drug issues...I just don't know what to think there.

As for Barnett, yeah, he's certainly not as slow as Upshaw but he's not considerably faster than him either. Don't get me wrong he may be able to be a great player at the next level but when I watched him really closely I saw a guy who was good at timing the snap of the ball more than I saw a guy who exploded to the ball. 

Derek Rivers is a guy I really like but not as a 1st or 2nd round pick. If we're talking Kaufusi then okay but I would be very hesitant to make him Correa. He's extremely explosive and bends better than given credit but I think his hips are a touch stiff but I'm not too worried about that because this guy could replace Suggs if he puts it all together. As @BmoreBird22 said via Miller, I definitely agree with those sentiments and see him as a third round pick. I'd trade up to get him but I see him in that round. 

16 hours ago, raven94 said:

As far as Barnett goes you've got to understand that he was constantly playing against the spread option in the SEC and since he's actually dedicated to run defense he's cautious. However when the offense is in an empty set or it's an obvious pass down, emphasis on passing down, he sire does have a good get off. When he's allowed to just think about pass rushing he's awesome

Barnett does a lot of things really well but my issue with him is his explosiveness. I really wonder how effective he will be in the NFL as a pro because I see a guy who is just really good at timing the snap but when I saw him focusing on rushing the passer I felt like he was slow to get off if he couldn't time the snap well. I really see a guy who reminds me a lot of Upshaw here in Barnett in terms of explosion off the ball. Obviously he's not Upshaw at all just in that way he reminds me of him

6 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Just to join in, I think Harris in a way tries to play too cautious with a two gap scheme mentality. Apparently coaches wanted him to just knife in and explode through gaps and he just wouldn't. I have no idea why not, but how will he take to coaching?

As far as Lawson goes, damn, you really wish he didn't have the injuries. Really relentless and a great hand fighter. I think he'll be deadly in the run game day one. A bit tight in the hips to maneuver to a mobile quarterback, but if he has a lane, bye bye to your quarterback. He'll eat them alive.

Not the biggest fan of Barnett. Not extremely explosive or possessing the best burst. He times the snap count very well, but I think he'll be just another guy as a pass rusher. Maybe give like 6-9 sacks a season, but never be elite.

Yeah the thing with Harris is his how well he does things besides his patented moves to rush the passer. I feel like he's a guy who could be mentally shutdown by a good LT who beats him early and takes him out of the rest of the game. And yeah Lawson would be in contention as the #2 OLB if he wasn't injured so much. I just worry about that guy because those injuries in college are a big red flag. Will these continue as a pro?  And your opinion on Barnett is very similar to mine. I think he'd be a good SAM but this team needs a RUSH LB who can really explode off the ball. 

5 hours ago, PurpleHorseman said:

You mean Ryan Anderson? I agree about Barnett. You can bend all you want. If you can't surprise NFL blockers with your jump. The NFL tackles are going to get their hands on him. He is going to look like a kangaroo trying to shed NFL tackles with longer arms and massive hands and better technique.

Harris has some issues but his bend is better than what most people say. But not always showing it. But he can be coached to better use his raw skills. I like Tim Williams and Carl Lawson better.

Yeah I like Anderson better than his teammate, Tim Williams. I think he's faster off the ball, has better instincts, and plays the run better. I think Williams has more upside but I think Anderson has plenty of that, too. I really think he's just a better prospect 

2 hours ago, Willbacker said:

What I never see mentioned is his awesome ability to change direction to get back to cover screens and make plays on misdirection. I think its 2nd to none. His get off is what worries me and against NFL tackles..... but what I've seen he's got good hand technique to get off of blockers but is this enough. I just don't see elite but maybe a steady 8-10 sack guy which is still very good and worth 16. Oh btw I'm talking bout Barnett.

Been hearing a lot about Charles Harris and Carl Lawson. Watched Harris tapes against Vandy and WVa and Lawson against LSU and Lawson is by far way better. While Harris got a great knife move to the inside other than that I don't even want him. Terrible at setting the edge against the run, pursuit was horrible and if his 1st initial move didn't work he was stonewalled. Just didn't seem to have the motor Lawson does. Lawson looked like 1st rd talent hands down and if he's there in the 2nd Ozzie needs to run the 4.3,do a 11 ft broad jump and vertical onto the podium.  

I am most concerned about whether Barnett can consistently apply pressure on the QB because I don't see the explosion necessary to be an effective #1 OLB for a team. I like Barnett but I want to see him explode off the ball but he just times the snap well but that won't work as a pro. Harris has his issues but he explodes off the ball but his hips are a bit eh with his bend and Lawson explodes and has decent bend but he has an injury history as long as my arm. We don't need more guys who can't be available for games. 

I think my favorite OLB for us are Ryan Anderson and Derek Rivers, but I really do like TJ Watt but injuries and explosion issues are there, too. 

4 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Agreed. I think the 10 yard split is more important than the actual 40. That's another measure of explosion 

I would definitely agree with this.

2 hours ago, PurpleHorseman said:

I think their edge flexibility is comparable. However I would prefer Tim Williams and Carl Lawson over Harris and Barnett. I'm undecided on Who I prefer out of Lawson and Harris. I believe Williams could be a great all around edge rush lb. He could eventually be very good in coverage zone and man up on running backs and TE's. He only needs some coaching and polish on recognizing offenses plays. He has the skills.

I just don't know what to think of Barnett.  I really like him from a standpoint of technique and bend but I do not see the explosiveness in him I want to see.  I think he is slow off the ball and I am legitimately worried he could be similar to Upshaw as a pass rusher.  I just don't know if he can win in the NFL with his jump off the ball.  As for Williams, I like him but I don't even know about him, either.  He extends himself too much and goes too far up field at times and really takes himself out of the play.  He's fast but I think Anderson may actually be quicker off the ball and therefore more explosive despite what I think should be true.  

4 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I also think vertical measures explosiveness. Harris has a 37.5 inch very at his pro day

Both rely on lower body explosiveness and converting power into speed but I would say the broad jump is the most indicative test to measure explosiveness due to the positioning of the body. Both are really good measuring tools, though--much more than the 40

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Broad jump is a great test for explosiveness actually, it tends to be pretty indicative. Whether it converts to production on the field is a different story, a player can be very explosive and now know to use it. I think that's what Charles Harris is, he's explosive but lacks other tools to put it to use, like change of direction and flexibility and balance. Harris appears more athletic on film but Barnett gets a good jump off the ball more often than not, Harris plays very animated and Barnett doesn't, so while Harris is playing downhill and using dramatic looking spin moves, Barnett is playing more tactical and controlled. 

I think obviously Harris is more explosive, but I don't think it's by a very large margin, I think it just appears that way because Barnett plays a lot more controlled and Harris Is just out there gunning it. 

Harris is definitely more explosive off the ball while Barnett relies on timing the snap count quite a bit. Barnett is much better bending the edge, though, so there's that. Harris is just really explosive off the ball there's no denying that

1 minute ago, Purple_City39 said:

Orr won't count because he retired as opposed to went to another team.  Same reason SSS won't count.

The Cowboys dead money for Carr.......is actually a great question.  I just noticed they have 2.7M allocated to dead cap for him, per "over the cap", and that honestly doesn't make sense to me

It's probably incentives he earned back after taking a pay cut last summer. They charge the incentives to the following year.

4 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

That part I do get. Doom doesn't count but Wagner does. The part I don't get is why Ducase counts but Orr doesn't. And why do the Cowboys have dead money if Carr counts against the comp formula?

I'm not sure without looking but if I had to guess it would be because Carr took a pay cut last year so maybe that pay cut allowed him to earn back his money and then some with incentives a la Dennis Pitta

5 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

I wish I understood the comp pick formula better. But I'm almost certain that Carr doesn't count against that formula.

so in this scenario. Is Jefferson canceled out by Juice or Wagner? If ts juice then Wagner lands us a 3rd. If Wagner then juice probably lands us a 4th or 5th

to me, if your expecting a 3rd round comp the. It's worth passing fighting for but if all you get is a 4th or a 5th then heck go out and get the best FA you can

The only time FA signings don't count is if they are cut FA. If the Cowboys cut Carr that would be different. Wagner is an URFA, and so is Dumervil; however, Wagner had his contract expire while Dumervil was cut. Dumervil, if he signs elsewhere, will not count but Wagner does

3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Aiken, Powers, and Lewis-Harris are our only remaining options.  The latter 2 I'd guess will be signed in the summer when the comp picks no longer matter, but I guess Powers could surprise us.  Aiken is the remaining lifeline in Comppickville but his market seems awfully cold.

Forgot all about Aiken, but I guess you can't blame me lol. Hopefully he does the team a solid and signs with another team while it counts and helps us get a 4th  or 5th round comp. 

6 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

You're way off base on the comp picks.  It's a 1-for-1 cancel out process, and it's unrestricted free agents that factor in.  Orr doesn't factor in at all.

Right now, we've lost Wagner, Juice, Guy, and Ducasse.  We've gained Jefferson, Carr, and Woodhead.  That will cancel out and leave us 1 comp pick.

Yep and unfortunately it doesn't look like anyone will sign Powers so he won't count as a FA lost.  We retained Levine so we're going to be light on comp picks again. While this sucks I think it's good because you need to address the problems on this team and we're not talented enough to not participate in FA right now. We're getting closer though 

1 hour ago, arnie_uk said:

Washington trade round 2 pick 17 to indy Colt for round 2 pick 24 and round 4 pick 3

@GrimCoconut

Yep confirmed 

2 minutes ago, ArsenalRaven666 said:

Oi aren't you supposed to be revising !!! 😆

I got a good deal for Allen so I took it lol. I was supposed to be done with this game. I should be after this. I have no other pieces I can trade

53 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Still are?

I am if you're looking to trade back. 

Looking to trade as high as 2.24 and 4,3 take me. If anyone wants to trade back I am looking to trade up with these picks. 

11 hours ago, Inqui said:

@GrimCoconut

Cowboys give

Pick 2.24

Pick 4.3

QB Matt Cassel (0.5 stars each way)

 

Colts give

TE Dwayne Allen (+2 stars Cowboys, -5 stars Colts)

OT Marshall Newhouse (2 stars each way)

Confirmed 

i exercise my special cut rule thing on Allen

Wow. Have we ever done that before with an RFA? That's the first from what I recall. I don't remember us doing that in a long time if ever. 

I guess this ends my involvement in this game this year but that was the plan I had and it's why I was willing to sell the farm for Myles Garrett. I simply have too much going on in my life right now and I didn't want to quit so I just figured it was better to trade all my picks for one guy rather than stalling this game. If this is our last game it was fun and I blame JO for taking the Ravens. Garrett should give JAX, HOU, TEN nightmares all year with my improved defense that should be more opportunistic and put Luck in better position to win 

With the 1st pick in the 1st round of the 2017 Forum Mock, Jim Irsay selects...

Jim Beam, Bourbon, Kentucky

I mean, the Colts select...

Myles the "T-Rex" Garrett, Pass Rusher, Texas A&M

Just now, ArsenalRaven666 said:

@GrimCoconut

Browns give round 1 pick (#1)

 

Colts give

WR Phillip Dorsett

Round 1 pick (15)

Round 2 pick (14)

Round 3 pick (16)

Round 4 pick (37)

Round 6 pick (15)

Round 7 pick (28)

Colts confirm and will lose a star on Dorsett in the trade

1 hour ago, Admin 3 said:

BOARD CLOSURE DATE CHANGE

Thank you to everyone who has shared feedback on this thread. We wanted to ensure we provided ample notice to the community of the shutdown and originally felt that 3+ weeks was suitable. Also, with the NFL calendar now spanning 12 months, we realize that there is no "best" time to sunset the boards. However, with the amount of chatter that occurs during the free agency period and draft, we understand that March 31 may not be the ideal time to close the discussion.

With that in mind, we have decided to leave the message boards up and running through the draft. The new shutdown day will be Friday, May 5 -- one week following the NFL Draft. We realize that many will still be upset that the board is closing, but we hope this provides members an opportunity to continue the ongoing dialogue during this busy time of year.

I think this is better timing.  Never a good time to close the forum and I still think that the rationale to close it is a bit weak but this is the organization's decision and clearly not the fans and I don't think the fans were really considered in making this decision. I appreciate the Ravens' willingness to be flexible with their original timeline.

Colts looking to trade into the top 5 picks and willing to sell their entire draft and a specific player to do it. 

3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'm in agreement with @rmw10 on this one that Pryor probably saw a lot of mediocre talents going for what he just got and figured if he can show last year was no fluke, he could get $10M+ next year after a one year deal.

Just now, rmw10 said:

I'd guess the guarantees on a multi year contract were also pretty low after only 1 year at WR.

That could also be it too. Just because we wanted to offer him less than his double digit asking price doesn't mean we didn't come close or meet the WAS deal but he probably wanted to bet on himself and get more money next year after proving himself as a WR. The guaranteed money was also very likely low too