BOLDnPurPnBlacK

WR's I think are worth a look considering their upside, and risk vs. reward:

1. Kenny Britt

- Very talented, but injuries may have reduced his ceiling considerably. Publicly stated he'd like to be in Baltimore last year. Has a relationship with Ray Rice who is an offensive "leader." Can probably be had for a very cheap 1 or 2 year deal to prove he can get back to where he was. Although has a history of off field issues, he was relatively quiet and well-behaved through a situation where he lost playing time and was called out publicly by his coaching staff. I don't think he'll get back to the Kenny Britt of 2-3 years ago, but the potential reward could be well worth the investment.

2. Hakeem Nicks

- I'm less on board with this move than I was. He publicly listed teams he wants to go to, and we were not one of them. I also originally thought he could be had relatively cheap considering the level of talent and potential upside, but it looks like there are several teams interested which will inflate his value on the open market. If he can be had on a 1-2 year deal for $6-8mill total, with escalators and bonuses for production and games played I'd be on board with it.

3. Santonio Holmes

- I predicted he'd be cut by the Jets (as many did) a while ago and still think he's got something left in the tank. I think he can fit the role that we're looking for and knows the AFC North well. He has shown that when his back is against the wall or needs to prove himself to win a big contract he performs at an elite level. As a cut he wouldn't take away a comp pick. I would not sign him to anything more than 1 or 2 years as he's shown that when he has financial security he tends to mail it in. Plays best on the biggest stages. Would definitely be interested on a 1 year deal for $2-4 million that's incentive laden - not a long term answer but could bring great value with something to prove and the possibility to earn one more big money deal before retirement. Dependent on a physical.

4. Kevin Walter

- Needs to be checked out physically, and not someone that I think can be relied on as a #2 option, but may have value as a leader on the offense as they go through this transition. Would bring in a player's prospective to the WR group for learning the offense and could help bring along the young guys. Would be a reliable set of hands and a decent #3 or 4 option. Worth a look if healthy and for the vet minimum. Makes the most sense if we look to the 1st round of the draft to pick up a WR.

These are the only 4 FA WR's id be interested in. Of course, all have their red flags but if they can be signed with minimal financial commitment and to short term deals to prove they have overcome their issues, I think the potential reward (1-3) is well worth it. I don't think the upside is there with Walter, but I do like the value he brings in knowing the offense and could be an extension of the coaching staff.

Either way, I'd like to look at the draft. Watkins is likely out of the picture, but I think if there's a way to get Mike Evans id do it. He's been dominant and still has so much room to improve.

I know this about possible FA's, and a lot of people are talking Free Safety bc its something Ozzie mentioned as a position to upgrade - but unless we can land Byrd I'd rather us go the route of getting a cheap veteran insurance policy and give Omar Brown and legitimate shot to win the job.

He seems like the kind of guy who doesn't jump off the tape in practice but come game time just lives up to the occasion and makes plays. I get the argument that the coaches see him every day in practice and if there was enough there to warrant an opportunity he would have got it by now.... but every time we've seen him in extended game action (albeit pre-season) the guy has made play after play.

I wouldn't be opposed to drafting one of the top 2 safeties if theyre available at 17, but if we don't draft an elite talent or sign Byrd id truly prefer to sign a stop-gap vet who can fill in if needed and give Brown a shot. Give him a 4 game audition - its clear he can make plays but hes got to prove he can consistently put himself in the right position and not be a liability to give up the big play.

Am I about to get ranted on? I think I'm making fairly logical, non-heated points.

I don't think anyones making heated points, but they are making logical retorts to your opinion that youre failing to address. A rumor that the 49ers are looking at him doesn't mean he fits a 3-4. They run so many hybrid looks he may fit there. Plus he brings a lot more value to their team then he does ours even if talking strictly as a fit in a 3-4 front in that signing him takes him away from the Seahawks, a division rival. That value doesn't exist for us.

Plus, we have invested big contracts into both outside and inside rushers. With the money locked up in Suggs, Dumervil, Ngata, and Canty and the draft picks invested in Upshaw, Simon, KLM, and Williams it just doesn't make sense to invest for another player who will definitely be overpaid. That's just not a way to build a team.

With much more important holes to fill at FS, MLB, and all over the offensive side you cant invest that much more money into a player that would be a luxury at best, and a complete waste at worst.

Adding talent never hurts, especially when it comes with little risk or financial commitment. If he wants to come back and is motivated to succeed, and fulfills his potential you've got a homerun.

If hes not motivated, gets in trouble, has lost too much in his year off - cut ties and no loss on our end.

Apparently Monroe's market has cooled as he has become the 3rd priority for the tackle needy teams.

Arizona to land Veldheer, Miami to ink Albert, which leaves Monroe to us for somewhere between $8.5-9 million avg per year - per nfl.com

Matt Zenitz ‏@mzenitz  2m

Per sources, Eugene Monroe is unlikely to return to the Ravens. Contract talks between Monroe and the Ravens have reached a standstill

 

Matt Zenitz ‏@mzenitz  1m

Per a source, Monroe wants a long-term deal that averages around $10M annually. The Ravens want him for closer to $8M or $9M per year

If I were the Ravens, I'd give him 5 years and $48mill with $20mill guaranteed, especially considering the deal that the Raiders just gave Veldheer. Comparatively it's a steal.

If you don't sign Monroe you've thrown 2 draft picks down the tubes. I understand those not wanting to over pay, but what sets the team back more - investing 2 draft picks that provide absolutely ZERO return only to have to re-invest even more in HOPES of a solution , or maybe overpaying a little bit for an impact player at one of the most important positions on the team that you KNOW is a solution.

I side with paying the man especially if he wants less than what a lesser player got, even if he got it from the Oakland Raiders.

You think Brandon Albert would be $3-$4 million cheaper? HA! He just played for a $10 million dollar franchise tag and was looking for more than the $7.2 Jermon Bushrod made last year. He's probably looking for a similar contract to Eugene Monroe (especially with the salary cap raise), and he is not as good as Monroe. Add in that he's probably not a scheme fit for the Ravens ZBS.

I didn't say that we would offer Albert anything... my point was I didn't think teams would go to the lengths of offering $12mill a year for Monroe with Albert out there as an alternative that can likely be had for $8mill/yr on a 4-5 year deal.

But honestly, Veldheer signing for close to what - $11.5 mill/yr - throws a wrench in the whole thing. Raiders blowing up FA.

And… which would not be good at all.

 

Matt Zenitz ‏@mzenitz  4m

Per the source, it's possible a deal could eventually be worked out, but it's likely that Monroe will at least test the free agent market

He probably wants to see what his value is on the market to bring back to the Ravens. And I'd be willing to let him, because with one or 2 other comparable LT's on the market (talented but with flaws) I don't think any team is going to offer way over value for Monroe if they can get Albert for $3-4million less per year. Monroes got youth and more upside, but not THAT much.

Plus, having come from Jacksonville, I don't see Monroe taking the biggest deal just for the money.

If we were willing to spend 10 million a year on him we'd probably have tagged him.

Not necessarily. The tag was $11 mill, not $10... and getting a contract that averages $10mill a year would most likely have a much lower cap hit for this year and likely the 2nd. They clearly weren't willing to tie up $11mill in cap for Monroe, especially with no long term commitment.

One doesn't explain or justify the other.

Why does it seem like the common thinking is that since we didn't franchise him were not going to sign him?

I still think we resign him to a deal that is fair to both sides. It'll look big but be another 5 year deal that's really a 3 year deal with 2 cap friendly years in the beginning and a sharp jump year 3 and a 4th/5th year option for extension he continues to improve or you can cut bait.

I still see us signing him to 5 years $45-48mill with about $20mill guaranteed.

I'm guessing Pitta was their priority and talks with Monroe are "far apart" bc they just started. I think we're starting at $6-7/yr and they're starting around $11-12/yr. Monroe's sweet spot is prob $9-10 and ours is probably $8-9.

I see it being settled somewhere around $9-9.5/yr and both sides giving a little.

Weve still got 8 more days that we can talk to his agent while no one else can.

Guys - you've got to think about this realistically.

Pitta has the right to fight the designation. If you were hired at your job and paid minimum wage, but then after a year were asked that for 75% of your work hours to perform a task that has a higher pay grade... are you telling me you wouldn't have an issue with that? Hey I'm making minimum wage here, yet all the other guys that I work with 75% of the time are making way more than me? There is a point to it.

HOWEVER - here is the resolution. Yes, Pitta should be allowed to have himself designated as a slot WR. But, the NFL is a pay for performance business, kind of like a commission type role. He may be a WR, but based on his production hes not a great one. So, you let him win the designation as WR, don't tag him, and then re-enter negotiations treating him as a mid-to-low tier WR (a #3 at best) instead of a very good tight end.

The owners should all agree to do the same for any of these guys. A guy like Jimmy Graham is justified in doing so bc production wise he does fit the bill of an elite receiver. Guys like Pitta, sure they can justify it, but the result based on their production is that they just aren't very good receivers.

Let him win his little battle, and then pay him like a receiver with his production deserves.

Reports that the Eagles extended Jason Peters for a deal that is basically a 5 year, $51 million with $19.5 million guaranteed. So an average of $10mill a year for arguably one of the best LT in the game.

Helps set the market for Monroe. Even though hes 32, Peters has proven to be one of the best at the position, and just came back from injury to maintain his previous level of play.

Said it before and I think this re-confirms it, but I see Monroe worth 5 years, $45 million with around $20mill guaranteed.

This is great.

I don't see the value of player contracts increasing either. I think the owners realize collectively the model won't work if they don't display some restraint in what they're willing to pay to get a player and will operate under that collective understanding.

Btw Ozzie hinted at us being players in FA now (not just bargain hunting the cap casualties). So I see us retaining Monroe, Pitta and Smith for sure. We'll make a bid for At least 2 of Jones, Jones and Graham. Then I see us trying to lure an Alex Mack, Jarius Byrd or a HaKeem Nicks as well.

I see 5-6 FA signings with 4 being our own guys and 1 or 2 other FA's.

With possibly close to $30mill in cap room when all is said and done, the rest of the league better watch out. Oz with that much wiggle room? Could be a very exciting scenario to watch unfold.

I think we get it done at 5 years for $45 mill with about $20 gauranteed.

I just read an article on nfl.com that said Jermaine Gresham could be cut. The Ravens could take a nibble at him for the right price - they were pretty disappointed when he came off the board in 2010.

I'd be on board for that. But I worry he's another Dickson, his hands never caught up with his athleticism. But for the right price his potential is certainly worth it.

If Pitta wants to be listed as a WR then don't franchise him but offer him a contract similar to what a WR with his production would get. All teams should do the same.

He's got pretty good production for a tight end, but maybe #3 type production as a WR. Let him fight that fight.

It's been a few days since ive paid attention... Have any new possible candidates beside the usual suspects (Kubiak, Shanahan, Hostler, Norv, Chud, etc...) come out?

I know we focus on those names bc theyre the experienced guys that we all know, but has there been any news of possible candidates from the college ranks?

I'd be interested in dipping into that pool if theres a qualified, confident coach available. I don't follow college at all, so no ideas here as to who would fit that profile, but id love to hear some suggestions from those of you who do.

EDIT: How about Mark Helfrich? Any indications that he wants to make the jump to the NFL? Living in Philly I paid close attention to what Chip Kelly was able to do this year, and the job he did with Foles especially was incredible.

Helfrich was O-Coordinator under Kelly for 4 seasons and current head coach, and he played QB in college. From what I've read he had a lot of success with passing offense, and helping develop and get the most out of quarterbacks.

I'd be excited to have a guy like that come in, but I have to assume if he was interested in coming to the NFL for an OC position he would have done so under Kelly.

I don't take kyle shannahans time in Washington as a direct reflection of his ability as a coordinator. I think his dad had complete control of the offense and kyle was more or less a figure head.

I wouldn't be opposed to him, it's be intriguing at the very least.

Generally position coaches are hired by the HC not a coordinator.

I understand that, but with both Kubiak and Turner being former head coaches, established, and I think both wanting to get back to the head coaching ranks, they may not want to take the job where they have to be handcuffed to those 2.

I mean quite frankly, if my goal was to be a head coach I wouldn't want that goal to be dependent on Castillo an Hostler succeeding in their roles. Id stand firm on both being out.

my concern with a lot of the names being popularly mentioned like kubiak and norv, is that these guys may want to bring in "their guys" as position coaches which would mean a massive overhaul. I think most fans are on board with that idea.

But Castillo and Hostler seem safe to me from the organizations standpoint. A new coordinator coming in may not want to be handcuffed to those 2... which could prompt the organization to side with "our guys" and promote from within to avoid that overhaul.

As much as I hate to say it, I think its more likely hostler or Castillo gets the job, as the FO would rather sprinkle in a new position coach here or there than to cut bait with those 2 to accommodate a new coordinator coming in.

Would fit with the pure zone blocking direction we seem to be headed in.  With Castillo as the only Oline coach there is, we'll be doing zone blocking again.  At least Kubiak knows how to call plays that take advantage of zone blocking and will be able to show Castillo how it works.

That last line is pure gold hahah.

Off topic but if teryl Austin goes with Caldwell and is a successful coordinator that has an aggressive scheme I'm going to be really upset we didn't promote him as our dc

We have to look at this a certain way, the way the front office HAS to look at it. Based on reality - the chances of us winning another Superbowl this year are slim to none... I'm not saying its impossible, and it still isnt but it is highly unlikely.

This year is all we would have kept Anquan for anyways.

Now you've got Ellerbe who can be a key piece that helps you stay in contention for the next 4-5 years. Granted we probably could have signed Ellerbe even without cutting Q, but that would have been it.

So, you downgrade one position for this year (when in reality youre just accepting the inevitable earlier and giving yourself an extra year to prepare for that inevitability), in the hopes of upgrading 2 or 3 positions for years to come. It's the same concept as when we let Redding and JJ go. Did our Dline struggle? Our run defense? ABSOLUTELY.

But it helped us sign Jacoby, resign Ray Rice long-term, Corey Graham, and upgrade our special teams. The players who stepped up in the vacancies left definitely werent as good, and those positions dropped in strength for us... But the strength of the team OVERALL increased to the point where we finally got over the hump, put things together and won the Superbowl.

Without cutting Mason, Torrey Smith never gets the playing time to surpass Anquan and become our #1 receiver. Without cutting Heap, we don't know about our American Express card until probably too late. I mean, Ellerbe and Kruger were mainly labeled as rotational backups at best and now they headline the free agent market at their respective positions.

Anquan going is just going to allow us to upgrade a couple other positions, maybe bring in a value FA who helps us get over another hurdle, and gives an opportunity to some young player who would have never gotten it otherwise and surprises us all. Maybe its Doss, maybe its Reed, Streeter Thompson or Laquan.

-Who knows? But all is not lost my friends, we'll find out soon enough. We are the Ravens. Even if some of these decisions do lead to a down year so be it.

We kept guys around too long after the SB in 2000 and look how long it took us to get back to the dance. Ozzie & Co. have learned from those mistakes... they dug a hole that took 10 years to get out of. Extending past their prime players for sentimental reasons, or going "all-in" during that window is what held us back until recently. That window is still wide open and it may close a little from year to year, but the front office is guaranteeing that its never shuts entirely.

I don't know Bro...not worth 6 or 7 mil? The Steelers offered that much to Mike Wallace this past year and he turned it down. Wallace is a one trick pony. He can out run the coverage and that's about it. Doesn't have great hands, dropped alot of passes last year. Not a great work ethic, doesn't really spend the time watching tape learning his oponent, and he's going to get anywhere from 10-13 mil from either the Dolphins or Vikings. I'd take Boldin over Wallace 7 days a week especially at 6 or 7 mil.

Other than this past year when he was at odds with the Steelers, I'm pretty sure Wallace put up more yards and TD's than Boldin.... and he's younger.

I know stats dont mean everything, and I personally like Boldin better, but Wallace is definitely the more valuable player. That one trick of taking the top off defenses is a pretty great trick because it makes the other receivers jobs, heck even the QB's and rb's jobs easier bc having the respect that speed creates a ton more space underneath.

Q has other value as well - blocking (hey diddle diddle), leadership.... but the fact is you're face with a choice. Hang on to Boldin for this last year in the hopes that you do the near impossible and repeat, or accept reality, shed the salary, even get a pick out of it, and try to lock up as many of your young players as possible who will be here to help you contend for the next 4-5 years.

I still don't get it, we have 6M extra in cap space after this trade, how will we use it? I think the team may try a late push to sign both Ellerbe & Kruger, that's the only thing that makes sense besides going after Wes Welker or going after Victor Cruz in RFA.

Really? those are the ONLY things??

Vet nose tackle or one of the left tackles wouldnt make any sense?

Pretty confident whatever they do with the money will make sense in the end.