BOLDnPurPnBlacK

What about Ellerbe, Kruger, Jones, Graham, Reed. The list goes on and on.

Players leave to take more money. If you think otherwise you are being incredibly naive.

Wait...... are you really comparing Ellerbe, Kruger, Jones, Graham or Reed to Torrey???

Jones is the only one that isn't a laughable comparison, but he wasn't a priority. He happened to play at a position we were somewhat deep, had already invested high draft picks to replace and already had big money tied up in Ngata, He was a quality player but not a leader or face of the franchise type guy.

Torrey isn't even in the same conversation man.

Honestly, you or I have no clue if Torrey stays here or not. We know that Ozzie is not going to overpay. I would say it's likely he is extended, but it's certainly not guaranteed.

If we can come away with Torrey and Andre it's a major coup. I dont see a way that could work though.

Im not saying Andre is likely or even a possibility, just building a scenario that it could work. And while no, I don't know for sure that Torrey stays they're already working on an extension.

Torrey is a raven, and the type we don't let go. He represents everything this team, organization and city stand for.... and is a young, productive and improving player. More importantly Torrey wants to be here. "Overpaying" is relative. Both sides want it to happen and they'll find a fair middle ground.

No I can't guarantee it, but I'd bet my house on it.

Some of that money would have to be taken on by Houston for sure. On the other hand if Torrey stays in Baltimore, he's going to be given a lot of money. It might not be want Andre makes in the last couple years of his contract, but it's going to be a lot. I'd rather have Andre at a slightly higher number than Torrey. If you also weigh the possibility that Torrey might not resign here it makes the trade that much more appealing for the Ravens.

Torrey's not going any where. You sign him to his extension and go get Andre for a 3rd or 4th rounder contingent that he re-works his contract where you give him an extra 2 years, a little more guarantee and worked so you can cut him year 3 if he declines too much....

I think Andre would be very open to re-working a team friendly deal if he can land on a contender. His motivation, by the sounds of it is winning now. Dude wants to contend more than make money. I doubt he'll play for free but he knows if he goes to a contender - most are cap strapped.

Oz would have to work his magic, but hes done more with less.

So many merged threads both in Ravens Talk and Other NFL Teams on this lol

Nothing on the twitter feed, where did you hear it from?

Agreed, merging the Andre Johnson discontent - desiring trade talk with a Torrey Smith value thread totally bogged down the value of either discussion. Bc now the Torrey talk has gone to extension, and the Andre talk is becoming strictly his trade value.

The 2 conversations (while I understood why initially merged) have gone in 2 totally different directions and make absolutely no sense now.

I remember when I had Andre Johnson and Steve Smith on the same team, and I dominated my league.  However, that was fantasy, and about six or seven years ago.

 

I would certainly rather have AJ than Torrey as my number one, but I don't think that's the trade.  If Houston were to field offers for Johnson, I'd bet they would end up giving him up for a pick (probably 2nd or better).  I don't want to trade Torrey, and I think that isn't relevant in this scenario anyway.

Totally agree Torrey isn't the trade, its a pick. But I think you're overestimating his trade value from the Texans perspective.

Andre is publicly on record possibly wanting out now. That kind of forces Houstons hand. Theyre trying to rebuild and their best offensive player who wont be around when they can contend again and has a $16mill cap hit is upset. They don't want to be strapped with an upset player crippling that much of their cap who will likely underperform if not given his way.

Plus a team trading for him would either have to taken on that outrageous salary or hope he re-negotiates. Either way teams will know Houstons options are keep him and pay him for likely underwhelming performance (either bc of his discontent or non-existent QB play), trade him for whatever they can get or possibly release him (even though it only saves like $1mill this year).

I think if it gets to that point, Houston would GLADLY take a mid-round pick for him so they have one more solid year to build through draft and gives them extra ammo to go get their QB in the next draft.

I think a 3rd-4th or 4th-5th and a 7th would get it done. And I'd do that to bring him in. Age, salary, and the situation don't bode well for the Texans getting a 2nd or better.

It's been debated whether or not Torrey Smith is an "elite" receiver.

I don't like to call guys "number 1s" or "number 2s" etc. 

But... for the sake of argument, I have a hypothetical for you:

Texans aren't going to compete this year, and Andre Johnson has earned the right to request a trade to a contender.

Do you trade Torrey Smith(and perhaps a mid-to-late round pick) for Andre Johnson?

I assume we all agree Andre Johnson is a upper-echelon receiver.  He probably only has 2-3 more good years left.  Meanwhile Torrey Smith is young and already has chemistry with Flacco.

Do you trade long-term security, for a chance at another title this year or next?  Torrey will eventually want to get paid.  He's still on his rookie deal.  Andre Johnson also already knows Kubiak's offense.  He blocks well(even though Torrey isn't horrible at it), which will help in the running game.

This isn't really for those who believe Torrey is a great receiver... it's more for those who have questioned whether he's that talented.  Those who feel he's really only a deep-threat guy.  Obviously if you already feel Torrey Smith is a great all-around receiver, then you're not going to sacrifice the next 7 years for the next 2.

Why would you trade Torrey???

IF andre wants out, the front office wont have much of a choice or have their top player on offense ticked off, strapping their cap and not playing his best. Keep Torrey and if Andre becomes available go get him depending on what kind of pick we're talking and he needs to open to re-negotiation.

The fact that he's in win now mode tells me he would be open to it if he could land in a winning environment.

Houston is a developing team starting from scratch. If they can offload a contract, dump an aging player who wont be around in his prime when they have a chance to win, and pick up a mid-round pick in the process I guarantee they'd play ball.

And Kubiak/Dennison plus our WR situation and consistent winning nature may seem like an ideal spot to Andre.

You keep Torrey and go after Andre if/when he becomes available.

As I'm sure some of you have read by now, Andre Johnson has voiced his displeasure with the direction of the Texans organization.  You can read the article here .

He noted only 3 winnings season, and 2 playoff appearances. The lack of a franchise QB clearly is a driving force behind his discontent, and at 33 probably feels he doesn't have the time to wait for the FO to slowly build through the draft. Seems to me he is in "win now" mode.

A couple things:

Do you think anything will materialize out of this? And if something does, are the Ravens interested?

If he were on the trade block, are you interested?

If so, at what price? (picks and salary)


I know around here many have grown tired of continually adding the declining vet. Johnson is 33, but is certainly a different caliber than our normal vet addition. Yes the WR corps is a bit crowded already with an established Torrey, Steve Smith just signed, a developing Brown, and then Pitta/Daniels both warranting their touches.

BUT this is Andre Johnson we're talking about here. I'd say, if we could get him for a 4th round pick (if hes requesting to be traded it kinda forces the teams hand so I don't think it would take anything more than that). I think his top motivation is winning, not a big payday - don't know what his current salary/cap hit are but he might be willing to re-negotiate to land in the right spot.

Plus theres the Kubiak/Dennison/Jacoby relationship that might make us even more attractive than just our consistent playoff appearances, winnings ways, and recent Super Bowl. Plus here he'd be joining a good group of WR's where he wouldn't have to do it alone but would still clearly be the top guy.



What are your thoughts if he does become available?? (which his statements and a general hunch lead me to believe - since I don't think Houstons plan is to compete for a title this year, but to develop again, get another high draft pick and get their franchise QB next year).

---

As a side note - I hope this isn't taken as the typical offseason "I want this WR" type of thread. Because the player voicing the discontent and hinting at a desire to be released/trade, and because of the direct connection between Kubiak leaving and now Johnson wanting to as well, I felt it merits a genuine discussion. If you disagree I apologize ahead of time.

Hoping for Roberson and honestly wouldn't be against giving lyerla a tryout.

The issues are well documented, don't need to re-hash them... But he's legit 1st round talent if he can straighten his stuff out.

And I've heard purifoy to the broncos but haven't seen it documented. Sources anyone?

Purifoy would be a great pickup. Has the versatility we covet and I think would have a good shot at making the roster.

F! I wanted latimer bad

Who says ILB isn't important or devalued? Look at the best defenses in the league and the impact their ILB make on their defenses and come back to me.

I know its ridiculous. Fans of the franchise that built and sustained excellence on the play and leadership of an inside linebacker, discrediting the pick of one of the best prospects at the position in years... probably the best since kuechly (sp?).

Were you all sleeping for the past 18 years when we were busy have one of the most consistently dominant defenses? Even if so, have you not been paying attention as teams like the 49ers and Carolina have been establishing that sort of play on the foundation of dominant play at the position?

The kid can play, is a leader, and personally was my #8 rated prospect. We got him 9 picks later. Value, near future need, tackle machine, football IQ.... hes a foundational building block. You all throw BPA around like some catch phrase that makes you sound like you have any clue as to what youre talking about, but then when it happens you complain bc it didn't fill a need.

If Mosley has a similar impact that Urlacher had in Chicago, Kuechly's having in Carolina, Bowman/Willis have had in San Fran, or dare I say it, Ray Lewis had here in our hometown - will you still knock the pick??

No, you wont.

I love fans saying "this team improved," "that pick was awful"... YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW ANY OF THESE GUYS WILL ACTUALLY PLAY! What if Mosley becomes the next Ray Lewis and haha and martin turn out to be awful? Still a bad pick? In the same breathe, sure theres a chance Mosley doesn't become a stud. But that's the game man. Nothing is for sure - look at drafts from 5 years ago and where the players are today. Several players taken in rounds 3-7 should have been picked round 1 and vice versa. Mosley was in the ravens estimation the best player available. You cant argue with that - plain and simple. And the whole Alabama bust thing is absolutely asanine. Let Ozzie do his job and wait a couple years before making judgement. Youre the same fans declaring Jimmy Smith a bust 2 years ago and now claiming he was your boy all along. By all means, have your opinion and you can certainly disagree with the pick, but saying that all these other teams improved and we're falling behind based on players names is just stupid. Bc right now each of these guys are simply names until they step onto an NFL field.

Guaranteed the workout was designed to break him and it did. It's disappointing that he couldn't do the position drills but there's no reason to cut bait from him yet.

He didn't make excuses for himself or attempt to hide from it. He publicly addressed it immediately expressing his own disappointment. Again, it certainly doesn't excuse anything, but it does show a little sign of maturity in how he conducts himself.

Give him a couple months in a professional environment under the guidance of the coaching staff and veteran players before deciding. If he ends up making the team and contributing not a single person will be mentioning this work out.

While it's an extreme long shot, if he somehow gets back and can play up to his original potential of a top 10 pick will any of you wish we had cut him now because he didn't finish a workout before OTAs even began?? Nope. If he wasn't insanely talented and the team didn't see huge potential in him we wouldn't have given him the year off, the private workout or a shot at a comeback. Players who don't have that upside don't get this many chances.

The fact that this guy still has a chance, especially when we've kept pretty short leashes with most of our players and have gotten rid of players who have actually contributed on the field because of their poor work ethic and off field transgressions, tells me the front office and coaching staff are fairly confident in his ability to fulfill that potential.

No point to cut him yet. Let him train at the facility under the teams guidance, go through OTA'S and judge his commitment, work ethic and overall talent. Worst case we cut him in TC.... Best case he gets in shape, makes the team and achieves his potential. No real way for the team to lose but the upside, no matter how unlikely, is potentially big.

OK I hope the right decision is made in the end, I for one am not overly hopefull there is anyhting there though.

And as many have pointed out as long as he has the minimum price tage I'm ok with giving him a shot in Training camp, but am very pessimistic.

 

 

 

However he can go to the practice squad. here are the rules:

Every player that gets cut that is not a "vested veteran" is subject to the waiver process. A "vested veteran" is a player that has accumulated four or more seasons worth of experience in the National Football League. 

 

McClain has 3 years of NFL experience. So there is a possibility of Practice squad for McClain.

Not being a jerk here just pointing out the Rules and how they may apply to Rolando McClain. Of course it would seem there is little chance he would clear Waivers based on what others are saying here.

That's just the definition of a "vested veteran" and the waiver process. Problem with your theory here is that not every non-vested veteran is a PS eligible player.

Thread closed/merged with Possible FA for offense.

Looks like we're gonna wait and see if the Steelers make Blount an offer, and if so use that to decide our level of interest. While I think hes a good fit, I see him as more of a luxury than a need. Plus, I don't like signing vet, FA backs especially when its the only one getting interest from multiple teams. He may not get paid a lot, but I think we'd have to overpay to land him not matter what for the role we need filled.

I think it's better to try and fill the void with a late round draft pick or bring in a scrap heap guy with some tread left on the tires. I'd like it to be someone we can get some ST play out of too - I don't think Blount contributes there and since we know Rice and Pierce wont, I just think it's wasting a roster spot to have 3 rb's and not have a single one that can play ST.

Zuttah was brought in to start at Center. The only questionable position on our line is KO.

I keep seeing statements like "KO is good at RT but has all-pro or probowl potential at LG." Maybe I was seeing things differently than most, but I felt he as an individual played much better at RT during the regular season than he did at LG during the playoffs.

The unit sure played much better after the switch bc McKinnie upgraded LT over Oher, Oher played well at RT during the playoffs so there was no dropoff, and then KO was an upgrade at LG. But that doesn't mean KO necessarily played better or was a better fit for LG.

He graded out better at RT and actually looked pretty bad at times at LG, certainly not All-Pro performances at the very least. Long-term I don't know where he fits best, but for this season I think the best idea is to just weigh the options. If a great option at RT presents itself then KO goes to LG. If a great solution at LG comes up, then KO is the answer at RT. The versatility is great for us right now because it really does allow us to grab the best player.

All other things equal, Id bring in a LG to compete bc I really do think (and I think the tape agrees) that KO's best fit is RT, not LG.

I have a question maybe some of you on here can answer. It's about Alex Mack.

To franchise tag Mack would cost about $11.6M with the transition tag costing about $10.6M. That's a difference of $1M for a team that had over $40M in cap space. Why in the world did they place just the transition tag when it provides nothing as compensation and costs nearly the same. I have no answer, but I'm curious as to why they didn't just put the franchise tag.

Just from hearing certain things from Mack and his agent, Mack wants out of Cleveland if the money is right. The franchise tag wouldn't allow for him to make visits with other teams, so even though Cleveland would have locked him up they would have had an unhappy player with the chance of a hold out situation going into training camp and I don't think either side wanted that.

The transition saves them a little bit, gives Mack the freedom to hear other offers and have some control in his future, and if he doesn't get an offer that he's happy with he'll stay with Cleveland - under his own control and by his own decision - and get paid very well for doing so. Cleveland has the opportunity to match any offer, but this gives Mack some leverage to set his market value and decide whether the money, or the chance to win is more important. If Mack stays in Cleveland it's because both sides choose to do so, so Cleveland isn't just retaining Mack in that instance theyre retaining an Alex Mack who is motivated and happy to be there.

I don't have any sources to back this up, it's just me putting together bits and pieces from articles and connecting dots. But it seems to make pretty good sense at least from my perspective.

I think it was Jacoby that negged you.

Haha best comment I've seen in a while.

Well you can officially cross FS off the list of defensive needs... Brynden Trawick resigned!!

Did I really get negged for this? Man, someone needs to lighten up and get their sarcasm detector checked out.

Well you can officially cross FS off the list of defensive needs... Brynden Trawick resigned!!

Nobody should be discussing Mike Evans , its not happening. Might as well be talking about Clowney or Manziel.

A case can be made for a situation where Clowney drops to the 5th-7th pick. And it's not all that far-fetched. While it may not be likely that Evans falls all the way to 17, it could happen. I'm not banking on it, my only point was in the unlikely scenario he would fall that far I couldn't justify trading back.

Yeah, of course. It all comes down to what happens on draft day and who are the guys left on the board, but trading down would make a lot of sense for us to take advantage of such a deep draft, specially because we have a lot of needs.

It's tough to say if they'll trade back or not. It could make a lot of sense but its just a likely someone high on their board falls to us and they pretty much have to take him. With so many QB needy teams at the top we could easily see a run on QB's. If an elite o-line prospect falls into our lap it'd be tough to justify trading back, or if someone like Mike Evans falls and we have him rated highly (which I definitely do) id be pretty upset to see them trade back.

We've rarely drafted this highly, but when we have we have hit on franchise players. Suggs, Ngata, and Flacco come to mind. We may not pick this high again for a while so if theres a chance you can land a cornerstone type player im all in. But if there isn't someone there who jumps off the page, it could make just as much sense to trade back 5-7 spots and still land a quality player while accumulating more mid-round picks either to fill out depth or have the flexibility to move up in the 2nd or 3rd to make sure they nail a falling player they have rated highly.

This is going to be a very interesting draft as far as predicting what they'll do. So many options... and what seems to make the most sense now, may not come draft time depending on what else we may do in free agency. Getting Alex Mack or de la Puente makes finding a RT less of a pressing need. I hope we do get one of them coupled with a vet, stop gap FS to compete with Omar Brown so there aren't any real glaring needs and we can truly just take BPA and get someone who will be an impact player for years to come.

Looks like we're interested in ryan Clark. Not sure how I feel about it. Would've been great signing 2-3 years ago and even though his tackle numbers were a career high It could be bc he allowed more completions than ever before. He looked slow all last year. He would be a good mentor to Omar brown and a possible draft pick, but idk how I feel about him being counted on as a regular starter.

And with his frequent appearances on espn and first take he's made some pretty nasty comments publicly about ravens currently on the roster. I don't know how his public scrutiny and shots would go over in the locker room