BOLDnPurPnBlacK

This isn't just a 2014 thing - but one since he's been here - so the bad secondary, injured secondary, depleted secondary excuse doesn't cover why he just keeps on doing what clearly is not working.

I have no issue being proven wrong about the man at all - by all means Please Mr. Pees prove me wrong!!! I'm begging you!!!

Except that they scored a TD....easily....now we're only 1 score ahead and then we did it all over again....and they scored a TD...easily. But, like I said, I've conceded to just let that be on its own merit - there were just various things that happened in there as well.

Our defense has been the strength of this team Pees entire tenure, except during the 2012 playoff run.

And this team has been a consistent winner, winning 1 Super Bowl, barely losing to the eventual champs, and 1 down year where there was a complete overhaul of talent and an offense with no identity.

I'm not crowning the guy - but I find it hard to want to replace the guy in charge of running our strongest unit during the timeframe which I think when his tenure is done will go down as the most successful in Ravens history... And has an opportunity to be among the most successful overall teams in over a decade.

Yes yards matter, and you explained why very well. But if points don't come at the end of those yards, despite the negative impact of giving up the yards - you're still giving your offense a chance to win games (which btw we do pretty often).

And on the Pats game... The TDs they scored easily - do you mean the Edelman TD throw on the trick play, the LaFell TD they scored easily when Melvin actually pressed at the line and got beat over the top, the one where Elam missed that easy open field tackle, or the one immediately following the eligible/ineligible confusion?

Because none of those had remotely anything to do with "prevent" defense... In fact going "prevent" probably would've PREVENTED them from scoring on the trick play and the LaFell TD. Both of those happened because we actually were too aggressive, over pursued, or what happens when you ask Melvin to press man on even a decent receiver.

Flacco was 12th in the league in yards and only 100 behind Brady.

Thought that was interesting. Add in his dropped yardage, adjusted for YAC and yards lost to PI and Flacco would've likely ranked in the 5-8 range in terms of yardage.

Not shabby for our guy who can't put up stats. And of the QBs with more yards than Flacco, only Rogers had less attempts. So, with the adjusted yardage Flacco would have likely ranked 2-4 in yards per attempt. His number goes to 8+ yds/att. Pretty darn elite.

The other 3 guys in that ball park - Rogers, Roethlisberger, and Romo - all have top notch weapons to throw to. We know who they are... Each of those guys had 1 if not 2 receiving options better than any one Flacco had to throw to.

And all had run games on par with if not better than Flaccos (Romo and Roethlisberger had the #1 and #2 backs in the league, while Lacy is nothing to sneeze at) so there's no argument to be made that Flacco had it easier with teams fearing our ground game more; opening up longer passes more frequently. Though it's pretty definitive proof that there's a strong correlation between having a great running game and your QB having higher yds/att.

Also, of those top 12 QBs in terms of passing yards I think only 3 had less interceptions. Pretty sure he only drops one spot to 5 if you go by Int's per attempt. Personally I look at yards per attempt and least interceptions per attempt as two of the most important stats when evaluating QB play.

And that's because I think the most important job of a QB is to keep the offense moving when the run game stalls and to keep possession while doing so. TDs to me aren't as telling because a running team like ours will punch it in with a rb more often than pass.

The other most important stat for QBs imo is 1st downs. This is where I'd like to see Joe improve. He did relatively poorly compared to the top QBs in the league though I'd like to see how many of those drops would've been 1st downs, and where he'd rank if everyone's PI's were added to their first down totals.

But in 2 out of the 3 most important stats for QBs imo, Flacco is top 2-4 in the NFL when adjusting as best you can to not hurt the QBs stats for things beyond his control like drops and PIs.

Pretty interesting to me....

We've been hearing this since forever. It is a statement in every Pees thread until the season arrives. I hope you're right though.

For the hard headed & in denial:

The prevent defense is a defensive alignment that seeks to prevent the offense from completing a long pass or scoring a touchdown in a single play. They back up so far that they concede short-yardage plays, but try to ensure that no WR will be uncovered downfield or can get behind them.

Sorry if you think otherwise, but playing so far off as we did is indeed considered a prevent defense in normal circles even if there is not the usual 7 or more players being used as DBs. It is STILL considered prevent defense. If you'd like another term I'm happy to call it "let them get first downs on every play" because that is what it essentially did.

In a prevent defense they typically drop off like 20 yards or more and is usually reserved or late in games with time expiring up by a score or less to prevent the ball from getting behind the defense.

That's why it says prevent the other team from scoring in a single play... Read: in situations where the offense has only enough time to run one or two plays before time expires.

Maybe it was conservative... But it worked perfectly the entire 1st half. The Patriots used gimmicks that are now illegal to move the ball and get that momentum changing TD.

Then mostly blow coverages, perfect throws and poor tackling beat us.

We were giving cushion, sure. But the whole 10 yards off every play is exaggerated. Why wouldn't you allow the offense to throw 2-4 yard passes every play when up 2 TDs? It's no different than them running the ball every down. Short gains and keeps the clock running. That's what you want.

It's not a bad idea at all especially considering the secondary we had and the fact that we were forcing the ball out of Brady's hand early.

If we didn't allow Edelman and Ridley to turn those 2 yard catches into 20 yard gains every single play late in the game it would've worked perfectly.

If executed properly (like it was in the first half) it was the perfect way to play that offense.

I'm assuming most of the people complaining about how Pees called that game would've have liked to see us play more aggressively, pressing at the line like the hmmmmm Seahawks right? How'd that work out for them?

Tom Brady threw all over them in the 2nd half. In fact, our defense, depleted secondary, prevent defense and all played the Patriots offense much better.

So tell me, if the Seahawks with their personnel and best secondary in the league got burned while being more aggressive in coverage and with pressure - how could you possibly think that would have been a better alternative with our secondary?

We've been hearing this since forever. It is a statement in every Pees thread until the season arrives. I hope you're right though.

Well you'd think winning a Super Bowl would have.

Then you'd think successfully transitioning from having Lewis and Reed to going without them while maintaining if not improving the defense would.

Then getting to the divisional round and coming within a couple trick plays and missed tackles away from beating the eventual Super Bowl champions with arguably the worst secondary (fielding practice squad and hobbled players) would definitely have to....

Nope. And nothing short of leading the league in yards allowed, points allowed, sacks, turnovers, and red zone defense while winning the Super Bowl will.

Because if it's just the stats it'll be "how could pees not win us a ring with all that talent!"

And if we win a Super Bowl it'll be "yea but we won it in spite of Pees terrible scheming and play calling..."

It's pittas decision alone whether he plays. Doctors can only decide to clear him for play not actually decide whether he does play

The doctors don't decide whether he plays or not. They clear him or they don't. If it's healthy enough to play on he's cleared. If it's not he's not. It's not like if it heals well enough to play on they can decide to say hey even though you can play were not going to let you because if you get hurt again there will be long term ramifications. They don't have choice - it's black and white for them - can it be played on or can't it?

The hip will heal enough for him to be cleared at some point. I think he's close now if not already able to be cleared... My guess is that he hasn't made the decision whether he wants to risk it yet or not and to avoid the public scrutiny, and to allow him to make the decision quietly with his family they're not clearing him for full football activities.

I think if he decides he wants to play for sure he'll be cleared immediately and will begin practicing. My belief is that will come right at the start of training camp.

I believe Pitta will play this season, and slowly be worked back in to the lineup.

I really don't get the foregone conclusion that he's done for good and that there's this huge risk to his long term health. I don't think the concern is whether he can play or risking his future health... I think it's all about whether he wants to risk the injury again and having to go through the extensive rehab again.

It takes an extreme physical and mental toll going through that, in fact id say the rehab in coming back from that type of injury is worse than the injury itself. Going through a 3rd year in a row of that is a grueling proposition, and in my opinion what this whole decision hinges on.

Giving up 2 14 pt leads isn't success though and while there were things that snowballed, it was still what is generally called a prevent defense (even though some are in denial about that) in a do or die situation where we'd already given up one 14 pt lead. Not exactly a smart move.

I know that 2014 can be considered an anomaly given all the injuries. However, I am not seeing the vast improvement since Pees came here statistically, other than from 2012 - 2013 in the run game only, that some claim. Our stats have remained virtually the same while our ranking has shifted, which only means more teams did worse in those areas.

My biggest issue with the defense tbh, is their talent for falling apart late in close games. Sometimes it is the players, sometimes it is that blasted conversative prevent crap, either way both those issues fall at the DC's feet when they happen over and over.

Being unable to stop cringing when the defense is on the field late in a close game is not success.

With all the injuries in the secondary id say even being in a position to play the Patriots in that game was a success.

And considering all the turnover and injuries on that side of the ball we've had to deal with in Pees tenure, id contend that consistently ranking as a well above average defense while having almost no consistency in personnel is a solid achievement.

I don't always agree with Pees philosophy and I don't think he's one of the best coordinators in the league. But he's the best available to us and id prefer the consistency he's brought to the team over the carousel we've had on the other side of the ball.

While you can argue that maybe the conservative approach against the patriots led to the loss - you can also argue that with a lesser coordinator we never even make it to that game.

I didn't think we had a Super Bowl caliber roster heading into the season at full health. Yet we ended up nearly in the Super Bowl with arguably the worst secondary in football. That deserves some credit. With a healthy Jimmy Smith and Ladarius Webb we win that game with that philosophy.

I'd argue that if you take away the trick play, now illegal eligibility, and missed tackles we do win that game. The plays were there to be made to keep us on top. We didn't execute. Maybe being more aggressive ices the game - or maybe it exposes us and we get burned worse. We don't know.

But we do know that if just a couple plays turned out differently we would've won that game even with the conservative play calling - so I can't blame that. It's all about doing enough to win. The coaching was just adequate enough to win it, player execution wasn't.

And I'll take the guy that's just adequate enough to beat the eventual Super Bowl champions - meaning adequate enough to win a Super Bowl - over guys that don't even get you to the dance.

I get what you are saying and agree with all points except for him ever being the answer at SS. Now I don't wanna make it seem like i'm hitching my wagon to Elam because he has so much to prove, but I do think there is time for him to be the long term answer at SS. I agree that Hill is the better overall player and if you listen to Will Hill speak he seems to love Baltimore. Even went as far to call Ozzie his best friend and say how this organization has basically made him a better man and father in his short time here. However if he has the type of season I expect him to have I think he may price himself out of Baltimore, especially if he gets a ring. So the Ravens will need Elam to step up and be that player they thought they were getting when they selected him, even if they are planning on re-signing Hill.

Although the situations aren't identical they are similar enough to make note of. Jimmy Smith couldn't beat out Cary Williams for a couple years for whatever reasons and a ton of fans were ready to write Jimmy off. Now Jimmy is a top CB in the NFL and a key cog in our defense. So there is still hope for Elam. The talent is there, he just has to put it all together and to your point, I think Pees puts him in position to have great success this season.

Trust me, the Hill situation is in the back of my mind for next offseason as well. I fully expect him to be a top safety this coming year - and if so who knows if we'll mark him as a priority to retain.

Another situation closely tied to that is Flaccos contract extension. If they can lower his cap significantly with an extension there may be enough money to retain Hill, resign Yanda and maybe even KO though we may likely have to pick one or the other.

But simply because hill may leave and the SS position opens up does not mean Elam will become an NFL caliber starter.

I see Brooks more likely to take over and play alongside Lewis in 2016 should Hill leave. Drafting Brooks in the 2nd round just a year after Elam, to me, is a clear indication that the FO felt very strongly that they missed the mark on Elam because Brooks is a much better natural fit at SS than FS and Elam should never sniff the field as a FS.

He's a liability in coverage and hasn't shown me anything that he'll improve. His technique is awful, is routinely out of position, take poor angles when closing, misjudges the ball... I mean literally everything you could do wrong he does more frequently than not.

Mix that with the tackling issues, the lack of understanding of the defense... These just aren't things you can have on the back end of your defense. He's purely an in-the-box safety who can make splash plays. With the way we run our defense with more interchangeable safeties, I can't see Elam improving enough to be a viable starter - if he is it will be purely out of necessity like you mentioned - but that doesn't prove Elam's value.

And of course anything can happen, players improve, there are late bloomers, etc... But I can only go by what I've actually seen in real, meaningful football games - not summer OTAs with starters missing, playing in shorts, against an offense not yet on the same page with it's coordinator.

And if your eyes are open, there's nothing yet to indicate Elam will ever improve enough to be a reliable starter in this defense. If he had an Earl Thomas?? Maybe. But Ed Reeds aren't coming out anymore.

I get what you are saying and agree with all points except for him ever being the answer at SS. Now I don't wanna make it seem like i'm hitching my wagon to Elam because he has so much to prove, but I do think there is time for him to be the long term answer at SS. I agree that Hill is the better overall player and if you listen to Will Hill speak he seems to love Baltimore. Even went as far to call Ozzie his best friend and say how this organization has basically made him a better man and father in his short time here. However if he has the type of season I expect him to have I think he may price himself out of Baltimore, especially if he gets a ring. So the Ravens will need Elam to step up and be that player they thought they were getting when they selected him, even if they are planning on re-signing Hill.

Although the situations aren't identical they are similar enough to make note of. Jimmy Smith couldn't beat out Cary Williams for a couple years for whatever reasons and a ton of fans were ready to write Jimmy off. Now Jimmy is a top CB in the NFL and a key cog in our defense. So there is still hope for Elam. The talent is there, he just has to put it all together and to your point, I think Pees puts him in position to have great success this season.

Trust me, the Hill situation is in the back of my mind for next offseason as well. I fully expect him to be a top safety this coming year - and if so who knows if we'll mark him as a priority to retain.

Another situation closely tied to that is Flaccos contract extension. If they can lower his cap significantly with an extension there may be enough money to retain Hill, resign Yanda and maybe even KO though we may likely have to pick one or the other.

But simply because hill may leave and the SS position opens up does not mean Elam will become an NFL caliber starter.

I see Brooks more likely to take over and play alongside Lewis in 2016 should Hill leave. Drafting Brooks in the 2nd round just a year after Elam, to me, is a clear indication that the FO felt very strongly that they missed the mark on Elam because Brooks is a much better natural fit at SS than FS and Elam should never sniff the field as a FS.

He's a liability in coverage and hasn't shown me anything that he'll improve. His technique is awful, is routinely out of position, take poor angles when closing, misjudges the ball... I mean literally everything you could do wrong he does more frequently than not.

Mix that with the tackling issues, the lack of understanding of the defense... These just aren't things you can have on the back end of your defense. He's purely an in-the-box safety who can make splash plays. With the way we run our defense with more interchangeable safeties, I can't see Elam improving enough to be a viable starter - if he is it will be purely out of necessity like you mentioned - but that doesn't prove Elam's value.

I think Elam will finally be given a chance to do what he does best, but won't be able to unseat Hill.

Hill is just a better all around player with much higher upside. I see Elam being used in sub packages blitzing out of the slot and playing close to the line of scrimmage.

He could be a useful weapon if used properly, but I don't think he'll ever be the full time safety he was drafted to be. Lewis brings something no other safety on the team does currently, so he'll start and get most of the reps at FS. Hill is too good to take off the field often.

Bust is a relative term. Since I don't think he'll ever be the answer at SS then I'd say yes he's a bust. But that doesn't mean we can't make use of him in certain situations, where he can be an effective weapon by maximizing his niche skill set and limiting his deficiencies.

1. Marshal Yanda

2. Jimmy Smith

3. Joe Flacco

4. Terrell Suggs

5. CJ Mosley

6. Justin Tucker

7. Elvis Dumervil

8. Kelechi Osemele

9. Rick Wagner

10. Brandon Williams

11. Daryl Smith

12. Will Hill

13. Timmy Jernigan

14. Steve Smith

15. Justin Forsett

16. Dennis Pitta

17. Ladarius Webb

18. Eugene Monroe

19. Sam Koch

20. Courtney Upshaw

Not exactly a revelation for parts of our secondary. Again that sounds like reactionary defense and a way of conceding easy yards. Any team would be more than happy to scoop up 4-9 yard chunks every down.

I think the idea was since we were up 14 and scoring at will let them have the easy yards and make them run 15 plays or more with a running clock if they're going to score as opposed to one chunk play. And just on averages there will be some dropped passes, pressure will get there, or good enough coverage to force a couple stops.

Just everything that could've possibly gone wrong did. Terrible missed tackles, getting burned by trick plays, etc...

Actually until the trickery began and they got momentum, the secondary's coverage was perfectly fine.

And missing tackles and referees not allowing substitutions isn't Pees fault.

Just looking at the comments here - you see some people complaining that he's way too conservative and never brings pressure.

Then complaining that he brings pressure way too often on 3rd and short. He's too aggressive.

He should've done more to account for and mask our deficiency in the secondary. Then he shouldn't have had our weak corners playing off in coverage because if they played right up on the line they wouldn't have been burned or anything (Melvin giving up the TD to Lafell).

He gets criticized for everything and it's opposite. I'm not his biggest supporter - far from it. But I recognize that's he's done a very good job with what he's been given

He's overcome injuries to key personnel for long stretches each season he's been here yet still kept us competing for championships.

He helped us win a Super Bowl. Flaccos post season gets all the acclaim, and rightfully so, but I'd argue the improvement of the defense was the 2nd largest contributing factor to that postseason run.

We're regularly among the league leaders in points allowed and red zone defense - two of the three stats that actually matter. Turnovers is the one area that his defenses haven't been doing well in, but we've dropped a ton of easy interceptions... And besides the DC can't make his players turn and look for the ball or catch it.

And I still haven't seen anyone suggest a DC that has been available to us over the past few years that would be a better fit than Pees. Teryl Austin is the one legitimate candidate id consider but you also run the risk of losing assistants and position coaches; and going with the young hot name is risky because if he does a great job as DC for a year or two with the Ravens he immediately becomes a top candidate for HC gigs.

So would it really have been the right decision to fire Pees to promote Austin... Have him for a year or 2 tops where he only stays if he's worse than Pees and best case scenerio if he was better than Pees he'd be gone to go be a head coach.... So were looking for another replacement where then we would be praying to find someone as good as Pees.

We've got among the most effective DC's. You don't have to agree with his philosophy, but you can't disagree with the results. And we've got the consistency of knowing he won't be leaving for a HC job.

Just be careful what you wish for those that want him gone. The alternative is the carousel we've had on offense.

He'll walk fine in 20 years. Whether it's with a reconstructed hip or a hip replacement, he'll walk.

Yea I've been wondering where this popular notion that he won't be able to walk has come from.

No, it's a comparison of when they were starters. The rookie contract of a top draft pick should be when they are at their prime. The point is JJ was a better player in pretty much every facet.

Upshaw has been a massive disappoinent as a high draft pick. He's a slightly above average role player.

Expectations shouldn't come in to play when you're comparing player performances.

And I can't agree with the statement that the prime years of a top draft pick are their first 4-5 but a later draft pick's prime years are later on.

Everyone develops differently, but I wouldn't expect any player's best years to be their first couple in the league. Who are some examples of top draft picks who actually were good players that were at their best in their first 4 years and then declined after their rookie deal?

Comparing JJ and Upshaw is difficult because we know the full picture with JJ. Upshaws story is still being written. To compare JJ's best years to Upshaw so far isn't effective because to be accurate you have to assume that Upshaw won't get better.

It's not unfair to compare the two based on who they are/were as players at the same point in their careers just because Upshaw was drafted higher. To this point Upshaw has been a better player than JJ was on his rookie contract. It doesn't matter what you expected either to be at this point if you're arguing who is better. Even if you expected Upshaw to be Terrell Suggs and had no expectations for JJ, Upshaw falling short while being a starter and solid contributor is better than contributing nothing which is what JJ had done.

JJ went on to start and at his best was better than Upshaw is right now - but Upshaw can continue to get better when he reached his peak could very well be better than JJ at his peak.

Upshaw IS already an elite edge setter. His coverage ability is already better than JJ was at any point in his career. He's also been trusted to make the defensive calls and on field adjustments, a responsibility JJ never had. Granted playing alongside Ray Lewis guarantees you won't have that responsibility; but I do recall reading that Upshaw was among the players making the calls even in his rookie year when Lewis was still here.

Comparing players shouldn't be what did you do versus what I expected you to do. It's just "what did you do?" And what Upshaw has done so far compared to what JJ had done over the same period of time in their careers is FAR better.

I dont get it. The Patriots.... the model of consistency and hands down best team in the league over the past 15 years is most afraid of our team. They admit we're the toughest team to beat... and our defense is one of the hardest to figure out (hence needing trick plays to beat a depleted version of it)

 

Yet we want the Ravens of old. Dominating, tough as nails D.... that goes 6-10.

Everybody talks about how well Pees has done with a banged up secondary but really none of this credit should go to Austin or Spagnola. This defense is not clutch enough imo and has given up too many leads in the past and almost blew the SB win except for some horrendous playcalling by SF. Pees is very average and is ranked way too high. Throw stats out the window. A previus poster showed Mattison's D to be ranked 3rd and 10th respectively but yet nobody sits there and says he ran great defenses. Yes Pees doesn't run as many 3 man passrushes lol but the defense is way more soft compared to Ryan's,Lewis's or Pagano's defenses. Just use the eyeball test. Do you yall think we're feared at all. We used to be.

 

The defense alone may not be feared like it used to be.... but if you dont think every team in the AFC is afraid when the Ravens come to town in January youre kidding yourself.

 

The defense used to be feared and the offense was a joke. It was a mildly successful winning formula. And it was that way because EVERYTHING was invested in the defense and nothing on offense.

 

Now, we have a better offense, which is going to take some away from the defense. That's not all on the coordinator - he's missing some key ingredients those old defenses used to have. But the team overall - MUCH more feared.

I'm not a huge pees fan but this conversation always comes down to nostalgic comparisons to Marvin Lewis and Rex Ryan.

Dean Pees hasn't had nearly the consistency in personnel, has dealt with injuries to multiple key players every year he's been the coordinator, and frankly doesn't have the same talent those guys had.

He has talent yes, but not HOF talent at the 2 key positions that others had. An in prime ed reed and ray Lewis allow you to do SOOOOO MUCH and take so many chances/be as aggressive as you want bc you know Ray has the whole middle of the field covered and will clean up and Ed has sideline to sideline on anything deep.

Pees has won a Super Bowl (which Pagano and Ryan never did) with less. It's not always pretty, and won't be the dominate defense that dictates a game that we all grew to love, but he gets a defense to play efficiently and do enough to win deep into the season.

You can want more, but it's luxury wants at this point. Pees seems to have perfected the art of doing just enough to make you pull ur hair out, but also enough to consistently win games.

And if ur gonna be a Flacco defender and look past his down performances and point to his winning ways and postseason performances.... Well Pees is a lot like that. Ugly sometimes, but it's a consistent winning formula that cranks up in the playoffs.

I share alot of the same sentiments. However, I'm cautiously optimistic. As long as our secondary doesn't go through that horrible injury bug, we'll make a deep run. As for the Patriots with their secondary question marks, they will find out how we felt if their secondary doesn't improve.

Yea injuries can always derail an otherwise promising year, but even with a decimated secondary we should've been playing in at least the AFCCG.

Even if injuries hit the secondary we have better depth there this year.

We're younger, deeper and arguably more talented on the dline. Mosley will be a year better. Our young receivers will be a year better and we have more talent. Rb is deeper.

The oline is returning untouched and our depth is excellent. We have 2 starting quality backups with Urschel who can play anywhere on the interior.

And that's why im so optimistic. Our starters rival any team in the league. And our depth might just be the best in the NFL. Injuries do happen and I think were the most prepared team to handle them if/when they do occur.

The ability to rotate a ton of players in should help keep us healthy and fresh for a late postseason run. Of course anything can happen, but our FO has done an amazing job of accounting for as many variables as possible.

I don't recall media ever talking about Mosley's TC/OTA progression ever last season.

WRs/flashy players always gets the best coverage in nfl

Exactly.

And for dline man and LBers who stand out by making tackles, stuffing the run or sacking/pressuring the QB it's not entertaining to write articles on how Carl Davis would have likely stuffed the RB for no gain or a loss had he been able to do more than 2 hand touch him.

Or Za'Darius really flashed today on that play where he beat the tackle off the edge and then pulled up 3 yards short of the QB to avoid contact while Flacco calmly through a strike downfield to Perriman for a first down. But boy I tell ya, I'm pretty sure it would have been a hit or hurry if it was a game.

It's just really difficult for the front 7 to do anything in OTA's that will generate good reading material.

It's not reason for concern or to think they're not looking good. Shoot, we haven't heard anything about Suggs, Doom, Williams or Jernigan either who we know are all elite players or on their way.

We'll see what Jernigan, Urban, KLM, Za'Darius and Carl all bring to the table when things get real and contact is allowed.

Likewise you're not hearing much about the RBs because you know they can't be touched. As an observer it's tough to tell the difference whether a particular run would've been a tackle for loss or if he could've broken the tackle, hit the hole and turned up field for a 15 yard gain.

The only real positions you can get a good feel for are QB (is he sharp, accurate, making the right read), WR/TE (running crisp routes, catching the ball, making plays) and the secondary (tight coverage, positioned correctly, breaking up passes). That's the sexy exciting stuff and all you'll hear about this time of year.

Our front 7 is going to be NASTY! We know Guy and Bilukidi can provide quality rotational snaps and make plays and they're like 6-7 on the depth chart and we haven't heard a mention of them either. I think we could have a chance to have the best front 7 in the league with only the Rams and Jets rivaling/surpassing our dline.

We also have a strong claim for best Oline in the league so long as Wagner comes back healthy. And being top notch in the trenches usually leads to being competitive in every game. I think we've got the most talented, well balanced and deep roster in the NFL - while being incredibly young at most positions.

Things are looking really good for now and the future in Baltimore. I'm so pumped it's not even funny. Anyone down on this team right now - I don't know what you're looking at.

Well from the complete lack of coverage Davis is getting I think it's safe to say he'll be a complete known factor this season...

Probably goes for Za'darius too.

 

 

Have you heard any media coverage on any defenders other than Urban almost hitting Flacco?

 

Wait til TC. All the focus has been on WR's and thats pretty much it up to this point. You havent heard B will or Jernigan either and we know theyre beasts.

The movie hurt your career???

 

Why because the guy who played you is probably a better left tackle than you are? Wahhhhh.... If it's so awful then send me all the royalty checks you're still getting, I'll gladly take them off your hands.

 

BTW your "mom" is still milking that cow all the way to farmers market. She been pimpin that movie out and your story out, so if ANYONE has been the issue it's her. shes the mind behind the movie. Call her out Big Mike.

he's just not that good. JJ was the best edge setter in the league..i wouldn't say upshaw was anywhere close to that.. he's ok..a big body with a big hit here or there..but he's not that good.

 

we need an adalius thomas type of player..pure beast..run or pass and coverage..upshaw is just solid in the run game…nothing else.

 

JJ wasnt an Adalius Thomas type player. So if we had 2007 JJ you'd be saying the same thing because JJ was great in the run game and nothing else.

Upshaw wouldnt have made the field in the era jj was playing in. Upshaw has had a very mediocre career and no... You're wrong. Check out if yoy need any kind of clue jj's pff grades from 2007 to 2011 and you'll actually see him in elite categories while upshaw ranks in the bottom each year.

 

2007-2011. So his 5th-9th seasons in the league compared to Upshaws first 3. Seems fair????

 

How about JJ's PFF grade from 2003-2005 and compare to Upshaw.... thats if JJ even has one for those years considering he couldnt get on the field.

 

Trust me, Im not knocking JJ I freakin love the guy. One of my favorite Ravens ever. 

 

But your argument is like saying let's look at AJ Green's numbers this coming year and compare them Jerry Rice's numbers from his final year - and coming to the conclusion that AJ Green is better than Jerry Rice. Comparing JJ's prime years to Upshaws rookie contract is laughable man. IDK why i even bother.

I stopped reading when you said '' I think he's a better player than JJ''

He's not. JJ was a hell of a football player. High football IQ.

Upshaw has a high football IQ as well. At times he's actually been the one calling out the defense and getting guys lined up.

People seem to forget that JJ couldn't even get on the field his 1st 3 years while Upshaw has been a starter since day one.

It was this yea in JJ's career that he finally got on the field and flourished. So to judge JJ using his entire career vs Upshaw so far and come to the conclusion that JJ was the better player is misguided.

Putting their careers side by side, year for year Upshaw has done FAR more than JJ.

Another aspect of Upshaws game is that he's actually done a very good job dropping into coverage especially for a man of his size. Something JJ struggled with a bit even later in his career.

In baltimore we love our hard working, doesn't take the credit, does the dirty work kind of player... And JJ - rightfully so - became kind of a cult hero. He's remembered very fondly for the great work he did, but that clouds people's memory of what he actually did and for how long he did it.

He was Kruger but instead of exploding as a pass rusher in a contract year he became a dominant edge setter. upshaws been that since day 1.

Upshaw has been good enough to justify making Dumervil simply a pass rush specialist instead of every down player.

Upshaw at this point in his career is FAR >>>>>> than JJ as the same point.

Let the rest play out before comparing the two on an equal playing field because the reality is Upshaw thus far HAS been way better than JJ was and thats undebatable so it's not a stretch to think that Upshaw can continue to continue on this trajectory, which if he does will wind up being better than JJ when alls said and done.

JJ's just one of the guys we put on a pedestal bc of the fond memories of the few years at the end of his pretty short run as a ravens starter like that hit or Whines Hard. But if you take your emotion out of the equation and actually judge them on achievement and play on the field thus far there's no question Upshaw is the better player.

The next couple years in upshaws career will tell us who overall was the better player for their careers but until he gets that chance the argument in incomplete.

I guess that's where I was getting at with my answer in the "Areas of weaknesses" thread. You are absolutely right with our starters at ILB being better than our starters at safety. I may have misinterpreted your question as overall depth and that's why I chose inside linebacker for the reasons bolded.

Yea but my point was not only are the starters better at ILB but also for everything you can say about Brown you can say about Elam who was a 1st round pick.

And then Id take Orr and McClellan over Trawick and Levine at this point.

Basically I pick Mosley over Hill. smith over Lewis. Elam and brown are a basic wash up til now... Maybe Elam a bit worse bc his lack of contributions have actually hurt the team where Browns are just disappointing.

And id take Orr over Trawick, McLellan over Levine.

If you feel differently on any of those points I an interested to know which ones and why. And if you don't, then there really is no argument to be made for ILB being a bigger weakness.

Now an Elam bounce back and playing up to his 1st round status could tilt the scales and a Brooks healthy return and continuing to develop where he left off might be an equalizer if not push it completely over to the safety side.

But until we actually see it on the field in game situations I have to stick with my guns