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Most scouts and experts think Corey Davis is going to fall to late 20's bc they dont think hes as good as Williams or Ross. But you think hes the best. Hes a try hard who isnt nearly as dominant as Williams or Ross in freak athletic traits. What say you? You think Davis is gonna hard work his way to dominance? Hes not as fast, not as big, not as good hands, not as acrobatic. Hes gonna flame out just like every other small school WR that looked good playing a bunch of middle schoolers. Such homerism for liking him (haha bc someones a 'homer' for thinking a player from Tennessee will work out.. you DO know what the home in homer stands for right?)

the thing is though, what's realistic? sure, theyre probably unrealistic...especially early on in the process when the people who develop big boards havent had a chance to talk to many scouts and sources. But we only think theyre unrealistic bc they dont match up with what media says is likely. Theyre usually way off anyways. So, it may very well be the simulators are more realistic. we dont know. Fanspeak is pretty updated now and its tough to land yourself a really good draft. And a lot of experts have guys like Sid Jones and Tim Williams still falling into the 3rd. I wouldnt be shocked honestly.

Watch him against Cinci. He does well against technique, athlete tackles. But surprisingly ive seen him struggle against BIG guys. Really struggle. He was almost non-existent that game. dont get me wrong i love reddick. But every prospect has holes. I jsut hate when people exaggerate someones weakness and act like thats the ONE thing that you absolutely cant be weak at and be successful in the NFL. Or make stupid analogies like bc a prospect wont match up well with like 1 or 3 NFL players, theyre going to be terrible. Myles Garret might struggle against Joe Thomas... so hes lucky hes going to Cleveland or he'd be a bust.

And your Homer way of just constantly repeating the same dumb opinions over and over isnt going to stop him from becoming great. He'll be what he'll be, because of him. Your argument is like saying -- Corey Davis is going to suck bc theres bigger WRs in this draft... and theres some really great WRs in the nfl that are big. So, if youre not really big you cant be good. "But hes an elite route runner and theres plenty of very good WRs that are elite route runners in the NFL." Yea, but big is the most important part of being a WR. And speed. Therefore dont draft corey davis. He sucks. Its fact. Jalen ramsey will limit him, so dont draft him. No one knows what any of these guys are going to do... but even those of us that love him think he will be really good in the NFL... which is different than saying "he cant handle NFL tackles bc every single one is amazing and if their hands touch him Barnett wont be able ot move. And theyll all be able to touch him bc his feet cant even move hes so slow." Its like hyperbole. But worse. Bc you believe it.

maybe he does but thats bc hes one of the most athletic and technical LT's to come out in a long time. He was an ELITE prospect whose skill set actually matches up really well against Barnett's. There arent a lot of Stanleys in the NFL. The kid was the top rated LT in the league over the final 8-10 games. the LEAGUE not just among rookie tackles. Thats like saying - dont take Corey Davis, because Jalen Ramsey can lock him up! Dont take Lamp bc Joey Bosa will blow past him!

its not a what would the ravens do -- at least my question isnt. Its what would you do if youre running the ravens. doesnt mean its this reality where we're picking 16. just those are the 4 guys. who u taking.

That scenario would be so hard for me. I think Fournette can be a Jamal Lewis like impact. Lead back that can have some MONSTER seasons if hes fed the ball consistently. And a dominant run game is Flacco's best friend. But then, i think pass rush is our biggest need, and i think Barnett becomes a dominant edge rusher. Hes my favorite prospect, though im not 100% hes the best prospect. Hooker is phenomenal and has Ed Reed like raw ability. But injury and lack of playing time scare me a bit. Plus safety is easily our strongest position, though 2 of the 3 top are getting older. Having another Ed Reed would be incredible. And then Williams is my guy. Love him. Prob my 2nd favorite prospect for us. I really have no idea. I prob dont take Hooker just bc were good at safety though i prob start worrying immediately that hes going to make me regret it. I like some of the WRs later so i prob dont take Williams. idk... maybe fournette. itd be so hard to pass on barnett though.

Thats why i do. I usually give myself a minute or 2 to be upset; curse a few times and blow off some steam.... But then i let my better judgement prevail and decide that if the professionals felt that was the better pick then ill trust it until proven otherwise. The reality is even with all the info in the world and the best personnel evaluators on your team -- the draft is still largely a crap shot, a lottery of sorts. You get a few tickets, earlier ones have bigger jackpots and much higher percentage of at least winning some money.... but they all still bust at a more than 50% ratio. Id rather get on board, be optimistic and root for our pick to succeed than hold on to some silly notion that im better at picking prospects than our team... or some grudge just in the hopes that in 3 years our pick will fail, the team will be worse just so i can say "I told ya so" though it seems theres quite a few around here who prefer to do the latter

Here's another one. Let's say Fournette, Barnett, Hooker and Williams are there. Who you taking? (And suggestion for this thread -- make it about anyone suggesting their own personal "Who ya taking" scenarios for ongoing discussion... not to hi jack OP though)

Really tough call. It'd be between Williams and Howard for me. Howard i think has the highest floor, and provides and dynamic, potentially dominant receiving threat while also helping the improve the run game and allows you to be multiple with your personnel with ability to give run/pass options out of 2 TE sets. Though i think Williams has the highest ceiling in that he could be an AJ Green, Deandre Hopkins like WR that can dominate a game and give Joe a target thats open even when he's covered. I think theres a chance hes a Crabtree like WR thats a decent #1 on a lot of teams but a #2 on a team with an elite WR, and his ceiling is through the roof. Tough call. But probably bc we have a number of above replacement level TE's (and a number of young ones like Maxx that have break out potential) i probably go Williams.

Yea. I really like the car racing metaphor. Theres a reason you dont take a drag racing car into a race with a bunch of sharp turns. Sweeeet that your car can shoot flames out the exhaust and accelerate in a straight line up to 300 mph..... mine can barely get to 150 - but i carry that 150 into and through turns while accelerating out of them. Meanwhile youre flying off the road on the outside of the corner, having to slow down to get back on track and only start accelerating again after the corner. Barnett is that first guy. He gets the absolute max out of his athleticism, and can carry it through a very sharp bend around the tackle. You see a lot of these other guys like Garret, Tim Williams, Willis that have the great burst -- they alot of times get washed behind the pocket bc they have to win with speed often and it just takes them around the pocket. Now, its deadly when their 1st or 2nd step is beyond the tackle. They win right away and close. But if that 1st or 2nd step doesnt win and the Tackle can mirror that, they cant slow down and change direction quick enough to cut back inside, and by the 3rd or 4th step theyre beyond the pocket. And NFL tackles will be able to kickstep and slide to mirror that get off WAY more often than in college.

Think about it like car racing... who cares if your car can get up to 250 MPH if the course is full of sharp hair pin turns? If you dont know how to brake and down shift economically enough to take optimal speed through the curves you wont be going as fast as other cars with less top end speed, and you wont be able to accelerate through the turns like others. Barnett may not have the Hemi engine some of these other guys have. But he carries his full speed, can take the corner inside sharp, and accelerates through it coming out near top speed. Most of these other guys fly out the gates at top speed but it carries them wide around the corner, forcing them to brake and slow down through it, and thus come out much slower.

What does a LT's 3 cone have anything to do with it? Tackles dont rush the edge. But how your run a 3 cone is almost identical to and edge rusher getting around the edge. Its not about flat out speed but economical footwork, getting low and bending the 2 edges, and then coming out of that bend and exploding for a short distance (to a QB). It absolutely had bearing on an edge rushers athleticism for a position. All sports science now is moving toward athletes performing the actual movements they will need to perform in games.... i.e. not doing 100 yd sprints to develop speed, if all you do is a series of 5 yd explosions. Do the 5 yd explosions over and over again at 100% effort and develop the most economical movements. That 3 cone time shows me that Barnett has far more developed and efficient movement. He is plenty athletic at the motions a pass rusher uses. Who the hell cares how fast he can run in straight line in underwear? I care how quickly he can bend an edge and hit a QB with pads on. Which he does PLENTY fast. Plus you keep bringing up the hands thing, but your knock is theyll get their hands on him bc hes slower off the line and getting around the edge. Hes not. He times the snap incredibly well and wastes no movement. That combined with how low he gets, how great he is at hand fighting, and how he reduces the strike zone will make it tougher to get hands on Barnett than almost any other prospect. Couple that with how quickly and economically he turns the corner, and reduces to distance he has to cover -- in reality, i.e. playing the game through the actual motion these guys will need to do, Barnett is just as quick as most of them.

Takes more than time to get your hands on and lock barnett out. Hes incredibly proficient with his hands, knocking others away and hes really good at decreasing the strike zone by getting a step, turning his shoulders and dipping way down low. Plus speed/explosion does really help, but if you need a much wider arc to get to the QB; someone slower can get there sooner with more efficient steps. and thats what barnett does best -- bends, turns the corner and closes with force in just 3-4 steps. Even if his steps themselves are slower, he can still be much quicker than other bc they have to take 6 steps or more to get home and they have to cover more distance. And its hard to push Barnett beyond the pocket bc hes so economical with his footwork and turns that corner so tight. He makes it hard for QBs to even step up. I will take the L if Barnett doesnt pan out. But im 100% sold that he has an ELITE skill set and sufficient athletic traits. Plus hes very young so its no foregone conclusion he doesnt get bigger, stronger, faster and more explosive. Hes still got some baby fat on him. Hes barely 20. Very decent chance his athleticism becomes more than just sufficient and actually an asset. But the reality is there have been TONS of athletic freak rushers that fail, and tons of technique guys without the athleticism that thrive. Besides i dont see the lack of athleticism that everyone else sees. 40's are pointless for edge rushers. I think the 3 cone and short shuttle are more telling. Barnett: 6.85s 3 cone drill; 4.44s Short Shuttle (a Top Performer in the 3 cone, which shows great short area quickness/acceleration) Charles Harris: 7.47s 3 cone; 4.42 Short Shuttle; 4.82s 40 (barely better than Barnett; and Barnett was sick during combine) Tim Williams (whose athleticism is raved about ): 7.36s 3 cone; 4.57 Short Shuttle (both significantly slower than Barnett) Pernell McPhee: 7.13s Short Shuttle; 4.59 Short Shuttle; 4.93 40; 28.5in Vert; 107in Long (all worse than Barnett; plenty of athleticism to disrupt in the NFL) -- I mean - think about it - the 3 cone drill essentially measures how fast you can get to a QB. After tiring you out a little, it tests you quickly bending around an edge, then fully bending in a 180 around another before chasing the QB. Its NO surprise that Barnett was a top performer at the motion that most closely reflects rushing off the edge. Plenty of athleticism.

Yea this year its having Carl Lawson going to us at 16 by every one of their contributors basically. And having Mack Hollins as our 2nd round pick i think. They LOVE Mack Hollins.

yea how funny would that be - we dont take Cam Robinson in the 1st and go for someone everyone around here loves... and then in 3 years Cam is the most dominant RT or OG in the league and an All Pro and the guy we drafted is a bust or constantly injured.

i wouldnt mind at all double dipping pass rushers so long as we still get value at either OG/RT and CB. Id like a WR in the 1st three rounds too, but i def want at least one pass rusher, one OL and one CB in the 1st three. So maybe not necessarily a 1-2 punch, but if we could get Barnett and Tim Williams 1 and 3, or Barnett and Trey Hendrickson... or Carl Lawson and Tanoh Kpassagnon in 2-3... etc.. Im expecting an OL in round 2 - Feeney, Dion Dawkins, Dorian Johnson, or Pat Elflein maybe. So 1 and 3 would be cool. If we jump and take OL round 1 then i think we NEED to go pass rusher round 2. Especially if Carl Lawson, Tim WIlliams, Tyus Bowser or Jordan Willis is on the board.

he had barnett off the board in that case... but according to sources there are several teams that have Harris as the 2nd pure pass rusher in the draft behind only Garrett. I dont have him quite that high - i definitely like Barnett better - but i do have Harris 3rd. And a number of teams are considering him reportedly in the Ravens range. So Ozzie certainly wouldnt be alone in that regard. And if Harris turns out to be an all pro edge rusher with 10-14 sacks per year... Ozzie should be fired? If they were to take Harris its because their evaluations had him rated as a valuable pick there. Just because that doesnt match up with your evaluation doesnt mean theyre wrong or should be fired. And itll be the accuracy of those evaluations that determine job security and future. Saying right now that it would be a fire-able offense is silly. Please - while the draft is happening tonight - post who you would take out of who is left on the board for the Ravens picks. I want to save that and critique it in 3 years. Lets walk the walk, and see who can actually hack it as evaluator and GM.... and who should be fired. And I'll do it too so i can be judged too. But in fairness im also not acting to be better or more knowledgeable than an NFL gm or pro scout.

yea they met at the bar... her and a group of her friends were hanging around them (he had rented a private area of the bar) and according to witnesses she had been hanging close to him all night trying to get his attention. When they went back to the hotel Conley apparently stayed in the lobby for a bit with the group of girls while his friend and the girl he was with went back to the room. After a bit the "victim" decided to go back to the room with Conley leaving her group of friends. Then theres a very different story about what occurred once they got to the room but all those accounts are from people who knew Conley personally (except the other girl that was with his friend) so i wont go into those details bc there isnt any objective corroboration as of now. But once the victim did leave the room, apparently she went to the front desk in the hotel lobby and asked the receptionist to call Conleys room and ask if she could come back up. When she was told no, is when she left for good and filed the report. All of that apparently is confirmed with video footage and unconnected witnesses. So seems like her story has holes all over the place. i mean why would someone who was just raped ask to go back into the situation. and if she lied about unimportant details ive got to imagine shes lying about more. But this rape kit should reveal the truth. This happened on like April 9th -- is it normal for rape kit results to take this long? Surprised this is just coming out. Guessing the girl got upset this didnt get media attention and leaked it to TMZ herself once draft week rolled around, before he could go 1st round. While i have my opinions, im going to with hold judgement on both the victim and Conley until more definitive proof comes out either way. But if it turns out to be all made up, there should be some course of action for Conley to recoup damages. While rapes go vastly unreported, under prosicuted, and under punished when they are true -- the fact that there currently arent any penalties to those that report false rape accusations is ridiculous. Obviously its very difficult to prove either way which is why there are so many issues surrounding the topic, but when it is confirmed without a doubt that allegations are fabricated -- these people should be prosecuted and the falsely accused should be able to sue. Conley stands to lose millions now unfairly if the claims are false. Its bs.

my guess is, if the accusation is bogus, that the goal was even if she cant get criminal charges on him (which she prob doesnt care as much about) that she'll be able to sue in civil court and get him to quietly settle out of court to avoid the publicity. because i have to imagine even if he didnt do anything illegal there are probably some embarrassing details in the story that his camp wont want to come out.

I love Mayock. Doesn't usually fall into the group think traps. And he really puts the work in. He's at almost every single pro day.... and he doesn't do stupid baseless speculation. If he doesn't have hard evidence of something he doesn't speculate. He simply rolls with his own evaluations even when the popular opinions overwhelmingly differs. Walter/Charlie have a pretty good track record of being on point - especially with us. Charlie has also dropped some info well before If became popularly accepted as true... like Awuzie being in the convo for mid-1st and a lot of teams seeing Cam Robinson as a possibility early mid 1st too. I just pray that they've lost it this year. I HATE their picks for us. I like DJ a lot too... especially bc of his ties here. Mel Kiper I don't find as reliable any more, seems to have lost a step or two and I don't feel like he actually evaluates the prospects himself. And if he does I really don't agree with his evaluations. But he's a legend in the draft game. He pretty much started the whole mock draft industry, and love him for being an unabashed homer. And as much as I like PFF for their analysis and grading of NFL players most of the time..... their college football grading and draft coverage sucks. They're way too tied to their own grades and seem stubbornly stuck to their opinions of players even when it's clear that real scouts and FO's see certain players totally different.

DRAFT DAY BABY!!!!! Man im excited. All the rumors and predictions will be exposed tonight as true or false. This is the most excited I've ever been for a draft and the deepest I've ever studied prospects. I cannot wait. Gonna be the longest work day ever. And heading down into the city at 5 to experience my first draft ever live in person. Bold prediction -- i get booed a lot for wearing my Ravens jersey. Maybe if i wear my Torrey jersey they given me a pass.

Totally forgot Cinci but you're right

Im starting to think he wont be there at 16. I could see Jacksonville, Tenn, SD, Buff, NO, Phi, and Indy all having a look if theyre that high on him. Apparently teams love this guy and he might have flown past Foster -- diluted sample or not.

NFL.com just posted a list of rumors you can buy. One was to expect Njoku to come off the board before Barnett. Theyre hearing that many teams view Barnett as a solid player but nothing special, while Njoku has dominant potential. hmmmmmmmm..... Whether or not that would mean Barnett falls to us, it would mean another talented player does. And prob a team looking for a receiving threat goes TE instead of WR. Also theyre hearing Reddick will go before Foster probably. And barring a full clearance of any wrongdoing by the authorities on Conley, he is almost definitely going undrafted. If that happens, and then hes cleared afterward -- itd be awesome if we could get him. Though he'd prob sign with whatever team picks Lattimore or Hooker (im assuming a lot here). http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000802698/article/2017-nfl-draft-10-believable-things-amid-so-much-speculation