BOLDnPurPnBlacK

I like him. Really tough runner after the catch. I dont see him becoming a star or anything like that... but i can see him having a longer career as a solid #2 option. Am I the only one that thinks he runs really weird? Cant put my finger on what it is, but it just looks awkward to me.

Would hate picking Taco, but likewise could definitely see it happening.

Not going to do most of the obvious ones... Derek Barnett Tim Williams Haason Reddick Tanoh Kpassagnon Ryan Anderson Mike Williams Cooper Kupp Juju Smith-Schuster Dion Dawkins Jordan Morgan Jon Toth Ahkello Witherspoon Kevin King Treston Decoud Duke Riley Harvey Langi James Conner

Menish Mehta (sp?) is apparently reporting that the Jets would be open to trading Eric Decker. Coming off surgery, but hes a quality WR especially in the mold of what we need. Mid round pick might get it done. Obviously spit balling here, and i dont think anyones inquired formally.... so its nothing yet. Not sure how id feel about that, or what id be ok giving up to get him. Although its also a possibility they still release him outright and are just waiting for him to clear a medical eval.

Youre right. It would have the potential to really hurt him, and the potential positives are limited. Maybe move him a cpl spots up at best, and probably not even that. Im just putting myself in the shoes of a team who has concerns about level of competition and whether or not the perceived play speed translates or is it trumped up in comparison to less athletic players..... maybe being a bit unnerved without the ability to test him.

I agree on Lawson... he has the talent, but missing a full year and a half out of 3 is really scary. It seems like PFF just isnt taking that into account at all and are just mocking him to be in agreement with how his '16 play graded out. His skinny lower body is a little worrisome to me too... could be easily uprooted, redirected and knocked off balance by bigger, stronger and more athletic tackles in the NFL. It wouldnt be the worst pick we could make, but id prob take Tim Williams and maybe even Charles Harris or Takk ahead of him just at that position.... let alone some of the other prospects they have us passing on.

I believe you and others... Was more or less speaking in general to certain prospects that go through trends of popularity, and how there was almost a consensus shift for Conley amongst the media within days of Sidney Jones going down... where Conley was 20-40 on big boards/mocks and Jones was in the 10-20 range. Jones went down and suddenly Conley was next guy up slotted in that 10-15 range everywhere. Im just not a fan of that methodology. If my eyes told me there were 25 players that i liked better last week.... im not gonna jump the 3rd CB up bc the 2nd got injured just so i can have 2 CBs in my top 15. If a guy gets injured you literally move every player up 1 spot.

The surgery was completed in January... i guess the timing of saying he wouldnt work out is what worries me. I guess it could be Perriman syndrome where 4 months after some minor ligament surgery you still cant move. But thats a concern in its own right.

Every PFF guy has us taking Carl Lawson.... Gordon McGuinness does now too. Has us taking him with Jamal Adams, Solomon Thomas, Corey Davis, Haason Reddick, Fournette, etc.. Has Zay Jones going in the 1st. Mahomes going to Jax 4th. Jourdan Lewis 15th. Thomas 19th. Jordan Willis 22nd. Jamal Adams 24th. Zay Jones 27th. Dede Westbrook 30th. PFF loves Jourdan Lewis, Carl Lawson, Jordan Willis, and Dede Westbrook.

Could be a smoke screen... Or could very well be they dont see the traits actually transferring to a higher level of competition. His refusal to run has always scared me. Anything in the 4.5-6 range would simply solidify his spot. Anything higher and he might leap Williams.

No, it was literally Sidney Jones mocked 11-16, injury and then Conley in those same spots the next week. Thats whim. Bc theres several teams in need of CBs from picks 6-16. If there were 3-4 graded in that range youd at least occasionally have that many going. Its only ever been 2 almost unanimously across the board. And Ozzie has said time and time again he wants his guys to stick to their guns and pound the table for their guys. Thats why their board and evaluations are so good. Yes a guy can change his mind on a player based on new info, but you dont change value of players based on other players injuries. Especially not the last month of the process. Most teams have had their boards practically set since well before the combine, other than minor adjustments here and there.

That doesnt say we need to take a WR in the 1st to be our depth. I think its fairly obvious he means take a Mike Williams or Corey Davis who can be a true #1 receiver to partner with Wallace/Perriman, and then the other becomes the 3rd WR, pushing everyone else down a further spot. By adding a WR at the top, you push everyone else down the chart, thus both improving your starting WR situation and your WR depth. Its clear thats what he meant. If Wallace goes down there's no one behind thats of starter quality. Well if we draft a top guy who can start, then either Wallace or Perriman steps up in the event of injury giving us a depth piece capable of starting. Dont know why youre going so hard when this is pretty vanilla stuff.

It depends on what the analysis is being sold as. If its being sold as, this is what league circles are thinking, or i expect to happen based on what im now hearing.... yea go ahead and adjust. If you're selling yourself as -- this is what i think based on all the tape watching i do and my experience as an NFL scout... then stick to your guns even if you hear differently, bc youd have no value to an NFL team if thats how you acted on the war room. And if you personally are on here posting evaluations of players based on what youre watching... dont start changing your tune bc Walter and DJ are. I can go to their websites and read what they say. A lot who profess the latter 2 categories are infusing a whole lot of category 1, seemingly to not be left out of the consensus.

You cant throw away what you know though lol. Thats part of the evaluation. The Notre Dame game is great.... absolutely dominating. But thats the book. You get that level of consisten dominance in one game, and then maybe 1 or 2 others against low level competition. Then theres games where he flashes it. Then theres games where you dont even think youre watching the same guy. You have to include the interviews. You have to include the fact that he doesnt seem to acknowledge the knocks on him. You have to include the fact that he seemed completely disinterested at times. You cant weight the ND tape any more than the tape where he disappears. Its all part of him.... and you have to weigh it all and make a determination of whether or not thats who he is, or whether you think you can get the ND tape consistently. He mailed in most of his senior year, and i can understand that having nothing to really play for other than draft position. He mailed in the combine interviews according to most that met him. Cant understand that. I have serious, serious concerns that once he gets money and freedom; hes going to keep mailing it in.

No youre right on the Hooker/Lawson. Another one of their guys mocked us Lawson at 16 and had Hooker going one pick later at 17. I had them both opened on different tabs (for reference), saw the Lawson at 16 when making this comment and assumed it was the 3 rounder. The one with Hooker still on the board is Josh Liskiewitz' from yesterday.

Yea, im kind of the same way. Id be ecstatic if Mike Williams was there for us.... or someone like Cam, Ram, Bolles, Dawkins or Feeney would be there in the 2nd however unlikely. Really like Juju, Zay, Kupp and Godwin as 2nd/3rd options. Elflein, Jordan Morgan, Toth as mid/late picks. I wouldnt hate Fournette or Oj Howard in the 1st. Corey Davis wouldnt be bad consolation prize. BUT... not passing up Barnett, Foster, Lattimore, Hooker, etc... to draft them. My point was simply, no matter how bad the needs on offense look; i wouldnt pass up a superior defensive talent to grab a player on O. I would, however, be very happy though if we can hit WR, LG/RT, pass rush and CB with our top 4 picks.

I know opinions change and some teams "reach" but we dont know that the Giants didnt have Apple graded there the whole time. Theres literally zero evidence one way or the other. We dont know if they were set on a CB and a guy they had grade higher got taken ahead, or if they sat back happy bc they had Apple graded above or right at where the picked. And while of course rankings change over time, im talking the guys like DJ, Bucky Brooks, and Walter who profess and their big boards. I know i said specifically mocks, but was the wrong word choice to apply to all. I know Walter tries to do his mocks based on what hes hearing and what he thinks the teams will actually do, whereas Bucky/DJ try to do their big boards based on their own evaluations, and their mocks tend to reflect that more so than what theyre hearing. And in all 3 instances they had Conley rated anywhere from the 20's-50's almost unanimously, but now have him teens and getting mocked 11, 15. If thats a reflection of what they're now "hearing," so be it. But if their own evaluations have suddenly changed - i dont buy it. Also, i think its more likely that theyre just hearing now that Conley is the likely CB2 now that Sidney Jones is injured, and are now just mocking him to the 2nd team they project having a CB need. If a team ends up taking Conley at 11 or 15.. its bc they always had him rated in that range. For DJ and Brooks and guys like that who are former scouts and profess watching the tape... stick to your guns. And if you were saying Sidney Jones was the only CB youd take at 16 before the injury, dont start settling for Conley. Anyone here who's providing their own evaluations, stick to what you thought... the group think isnt fun.

I was just about to post something along these lines. After now looking at all their mocks, it looks like they just use it as a platform to emphasize their grading system; and dont take into account level of competition, overall play, traits, measurables, play set, etc... Just, hey, we have a way higher grade on this guy who played low level ball but was dominant over a 10 game stretch so graded out as our 8th college WR so we're going to mock him around that area even though no one else has going before the 6th round.

And thats fair... i was speaking more to the general consensus and a lot of the media mocks, where they had Lattimore and then jones as the only Top 15 guys and then Conley, White, Humphrey, etc... anywhere from late 1st to mid-2nd. Then suddenly when Jones went down they started slotting Conley at 11 and 15 in almost every mock. To me, thats just not realistic to how a lot of teams work. If they had a late 1st, early 2nd grade on him they're not going to start jumping on him at 11 just bc the CB they viewed as having value at 11 gets injured. Your board is your board, adn while an injury may make a guy fall down the board, you dont just replace him with the next guy. If you had mid-1st grade on him, then thats fine.

I've now seen a worse mock for us than Chad Reuter's. PFF's Steve Palazzolo's 3 rounder.... ugh. Rd 1: Carl Lawson.... with Malik Hooker on the board. Rd 2: Jabrill Peppers.... w/ Cam Robinson, Garett Bolles, Dan Feeney, Kevin King, Awuzie, Witherspoon, etc.... Rd 3: Mack Hollins, WR, NC??? Bc of his "blazing speed" that we love so much. I know some are really high on Lawson. Love his potential but not at 16... and especially if Malik Hooker is just sitting there. Fournette was there still too. I want no parts of Jabrill Peppers. And i honestly have no clue of Mack Hollins. 1st ive heard of him, period.... let alone as a 3rd round pick for us.

I agree the Offense needs a talent infusion, especially on the OL... but im not a fan of saying we need to dedicate X picks to the offense. Its a stacked defensive draft.... i dont want to pass up on a stud defender, for a pretty good RT just bc we need one. If need and BPA line up, as always, win win. Otherwise, we just need to draft as many playmakers/franchise type players as we can. Period. If we end up signing Mangold, i think all we really need is either a LG/RT to compete. Sure, a young talented WR, C, RT all would be nice, but pass rusher is def just as big and CB, DT/DE, ILB and S could all be just as big within the next year or two.

I like the prospect but not at 16. This is another case like McDowell, but before Sidney Jones' injury he was the consensus #2 with maybe a few other guys in the convo for being "worth it" at 16. But normally it was Lattimore, then Jones, and then a group. Not a fan of doing this replacement type thing. Jones going down doesnt mean you then slot the next CB up into his spot. If you wouldnt have taken Conley at 16 before Jones was hurt, doesnt make sense to do it now. Other players are rated ahead of him. Not saying you in particular are doing that.... but Conley had no buzz as the #2 CB before Jones injury and was at best a late 1st by most accounts. Im sure if we go and look at the dates on the DB thread, no one was talking Conley at 16 prior to Jones' injury.

i hear ya, i think we all do whether we admit it or not. of course theres the instances where a player is just that good like Adams/Hooker in this draft, where we're currently set but you just cant deny the ability nor do i think anyone would complain about having them. But, even before the Jernigan trade we didnt have a surefire starter at DE, and it was pretty well understood that this would have been Jernigan's last year anyways.... at least once we re-signed BWill. From that point on a pass rushing DT/DE could easily have been argued as a need; and if not at least not a position where we are truly set where you avoid taking the BPA just bc hes a 3T/5T guy.

Theres also the very real possibility that we've met with several guys but its gone unreported... informal meetings with guys at combines, pro days, Sr bowl, EW shrine, etc... Plus we still have more formal visits available. Not only that, im sure theres certain guys we're 100% on in our evaluations from tape. A guy like Mack who were ready to trade a kings ransom for to move up and get, i dont believe we ever had a reported meeting with. Barnett is a guy who is polished and its obvious on tape, has the production, and by all accounts in an extremely hard working and likeable guy off the field. If they feel confident in that evaluation and his placement on their board, no need to waste a meeting or put people onto the scent.

Thats kind of where i was going with it.... Urban/Kaufusi arent exactly the most convincing options at 5T, and Jernigan was always gone at 3T; and youre never really drafting especially in the 1st rd for day 1 anyways.... so his best two positions are almost immediate needs. So the idea of not having him as a result of log jam, either seemed like an excuse or failing to accept the reality of the DL.