BOLDnPurPnBlacK

I have a feeling we could end up taking 7 receivers. And with that you'd have Smith, Aiken, Perriman, Brown, Butler, Waller and Camp all make it. 3 TE's, 2 QB's, 3 RBs, 1 FB, and 8 OL. That's 24 offensive players. Leaves 29 for the defense and ST's. Tucker, Koch, Cox. 5 corners, 4 safeties plus Levine who can be your 6th corner and 5th safety. 8 LB, and 8 DL. Or maybe they only roll with 3 ILB since Smith and Mosley aren't going to come off the field (so 7 total) and take an extra corner, safety, DL, TE or OL. But it will most likely come down to ST needs. For example if Brown wins the 3rd ILB spot and they feel Orr is more important to ST than say Butler or Brown... We only take 6 WR. Injuries will also play part like if Camp isn't healthy he'll get IR'ed and we go with 6. Not saying we do take 7, just posing it as a realistic possibility. We could do it without sacrificing too much elsewhere. I think most of it hinges on Marlon Brown. If he makes it impossible to cut him and Camp is 100% it's going to be really tough to let go of any of those guys.

I like Hill much better at SS than FS even though the lines aren't as distinguished in today's game and our defense especially. Don't think Brooks will be healthy to start the season and honestly I think Lewis is most likely a lock to start at FS if he can play like he did in Houston. He's the only true FS on the roster that excels as a ball hawking center field type guy. Most likely I think we see Elam and Brooks battling this year to be the 3rd safety in a rotation and getting snaps in sub packages. Then if we lose Hill to free agency, Brooks and Elam will battle it out for the starting role next to Lewis. I think Levine sneaks into that conversation too since his experience playing corner last year could really bring some scheme versatility. The secondary - as long as everyone returns to form and maintains health - could realistically become a strength with loads of young talent and a surprising amount of depth both at safety and corner. -- I also want to see who comes out on top between Arthur Brown and Zach Orr. Mainly just because I want to finally see Brown on the field, even though it would still be a rarity with Smith and Mosley entrenched and hardly ever coming off the field. -- Backup running back I don't see as a battle. Forsett will be the workhorse and I think Tali and Buck are 2a and 2b depending on the situation. 3rd and long and Buck comes in for his pass catching abilities. 3rd and short and it's Tali. Though Buck will have to prove he can pass block well enough at this level to get a real shot. -- The dline is another one, where I'm interested to see if one of the young guys can jump in front of Canty to start alongside Williams an Jernigan... But at the end of the day I think we see a deep and steady rotation on the line with snaps pretty evenly divided outside of the big 2 among 3-5 guys. This is truly the deepest and most well rounded team in memory (at least on paper) heading into training camp. There are some question marks (WR, TE, Dline) where were leaning on youth an unproven guys - but so far the answers to most if not all the questions seem to be extremely positive. Really excited for camp to start and see this thing start to come together.

I'm not saying he's the worst... But even Rudy made a play.

I think you're looking for "mountain into a mole hill" but far from the point. At this point i dont know that we were seeing the same player, so I'll just agree to disagree.

No I'm not, and I agree he looked "dynamic" in several offseasons inspiring hope that he might actually contribute something during his career. Then he'd see the field and drop easy catches, run wrong routes, and couldn't get open. Justin Hardy, Demetrius Williams, Tandon Doss, Kelley Washington, Marcus Smith, etc, etc, etc.... All showed flashes in preseason every once in a while. Doesn't mean they were good players. Doesn't mean they weren't awful players. Sorry but if you're going to claim he was a good player and was a victim of circumstance, you've got to be able to back up those claims. You basically said hey I disagree with your post for these reasons. All I did was the same - I disagree with your post on this basis... Don't see where my contribution is any less. We're discussing whether Deonte has a place among these players or not. I apologize if you didn't mean for it to go any further than " I think this because that's what I think" and not have to validate your reasons. So I'll ask a bit more directly, and it shouldn't take a pro scouts eye to answer it... In your opinion couldn't even a decent receiver get some decent snaps and production in a lineup consisting only of Torrey Smith, Tandon Doss and Marlon Brown?? We're seeing now that Marlon is a decent player - a fringe starter in an unproven wr corps - yet during his rookie year he was deemed a far better option than Deonte. And other teams took a look at him after his time with the Ravens - don't think he ever made it beyond preseason or PS with anyone. That means he got his best and only opportunity with the Ravens... The ravens didn't hold him back they gave him a chance to be a starter and he couldn't do anything. So, victim of circumstances (lack of opportunity, buried on the depth chart) or just a really bad player? Btw that's not a huge knock on him he was an udfa for a reason. And if you're going to say again he was a victim of circumstance please point out the great players that he was buried behind, and what you saw in him that 32 NFL teams and their scouts clearly didn't.

They? Are you not among us?....

You say that as if this fan base hasn't been through a period of terrible QB play and mediocrity. And this is a fan base that waited years just to have a team... Any team. This groups loyalty has been tested much more than most and we're still here as passionate as ever. But you may be showing your age a little. Baltimore football existed well before '08 and The Ravens for that matter.

Then why didn't he catch on somewhere else? He got more opportunities than a lot of other guys. And he was buried?? Really? Behind Torrey Smith, Marlon Brown an UDFA and Tandon Doss. You're right, many a good receiver wouldn't have seen the field with all that talent ahead of them.

Travis Taylor Lee Evans Gino Gradkowski Ed Dickson Bernard Pierce after his rookie season (harsh I know) Kyle Boller Troy Smith Frank Walker Tandon Doss, Deonte Thompson, David Reed Justin Harper, Eron Riley, Demetrius Williams Basically every WR not named Anquan Boldin, Derrick Mason, Torrey Smith, Michael Jackson, or on the current roster. My gosh our teams had some seriously bad WR groups.

Yea it seems to me that if they broke this down on a per capita, or per fan, basis that we'd blow the competition away. When you factor in the size of the other markets in the top 5 and the amount of bandwagon fans each of those teams has around the country, were at a huge disadvantage for a study like this. Us going toe-to-toe with them tells me that our average fan is twice the fan of any other team in terms of commitment of resources invested in the team. Proud to be a member of this Flock. #1 home field advantage in all of sports and now this recognition - just confirms what I already knew. Factoring in FO, coaching staff, team and fans... baltimore is THE best football town in the country. Probably because we know what it's like to have a great team and then lose it. We don't take it for granted...

I second that opinion. The personnel is perfectly suited to his system. I believe in Trestman as a play caller and teacher I just don't think he's suited to managing a team. Like Kubiak, he's a far better OC then head coach and he'll take this offense to a whole new level this year. I expect us to be among the league leaders in points scored. We will have one of the most balanced offenses and quite possibly the most complete all-around team in the league. and with this defense we can afford to be aggressive and take some real chances on offense. Gonna be tough to slow this team down because we can literally beat you every possible way. I can't wait for football to start and see this baby unleashed on the league.

Travis Taylor?

Kindle is unfair. He never got to play so it's impossible to say he's among the worst. Maybe he's one of our worst draft picks because we basically threw away our top pick... But worst player is a stretch. Cody might be a better selection. Just for clarification I think the list should be worst players who actually played a significant role bc obviously the list of worst players are going to be those who were cut or never made it off the PS. My big 3 from recent years: Ed Dickson Gino Gradkowski Terrance Cody

That's a hypothetical scenario so I'm not going to even waste time debating it. The opposite may also be true - sound mechanics, footwork and throwing motion help increase throwing strength... So couldn't you say if stafford took the time to refine those things he could throw the ball way further? Again, we don't know so who cares.

Doubt that... If anything it might increase his chances of sticking around bc he will land on the PUP or IR list and stick around. They aren't going to throw away young talent when they can stash him without even having to use a roster spot.

Saying he doesn't produce bc you broke his numbers down per game he played is a false argument. How many snaps did he play in those games? And how many targets did he receive? Do you know? I imagine he played 1/4 the amount of snaps a typical starter would (probably less) and was targeted 1/4 as much as the average starter (again probably less). So having over 100 yds and 1TD would likely project something more like 400 yds and 4 TDs over 4 full games. That's 1600 yds and 16 TDs over a season. Now, that's just as bogus of an argument... But the point is with the very limited time he was on the field even in the 4 games he played he was actually pretty productive. He didn't have the volume, but he was definitely efficient.

Me too. They used to replay them all the time at like 2am in espn when I was younger. Was awesome to see your favorite players competing at something other than football and just having fun. They also used to do it for the upcoming draft class but the last one I remember was Flaccos class where he won the deep ball challenge. I remember not knowing who this gigantic guy was from Delaware but loving his pure skill set. Glad we took him.

Arm strength without accuracy does have a point under the premise of the article. Reading it and understanding it are two different things. If you're going to argue Stafford is the wrong choice the ONLY VALID argument you can make is that Flacco - regardless of accuracy, technique, release, or receivers - has a stronger arm. I'm not saying that's not true or that it is. The fact is unless we had them both line up and launch the ball down the field and throw with a radar gun and find a way to weigh both measurements in an assessment if what arm strength means then there's not a definitive right or wrong answer. Stafford isn't a wrong choice. Flacco wouldn't have been wrong either, and if he had there would be plenty of people - like you - on the other side of the coin saying stafford was a better choice. Who cares? Flaccos a great QB, he's our QB, and being picked in that article wouldn't change either of those things. I'm sure Joe's not sweating it and doesn't feel slighted by it. Neither should you.

Yes the article mentions Staffords in accuracy but then still chooses him for arm strength..... Because the premise of the article is to pick a QB for each individual aspect of skill set and combine them to make a perfect QB. Meaning, for arm strength you take the guy with the most pure strength regardless of if he can't control it because you're going to then mix that aspect in with Tom Brady's touch/control and Aaron Rogers pure arm talent, Mannings ability to read the game, Russell Wilson's scrambling ability, etc... I don't know who they actually picked for what skills but making the argument that Stafford is a poor choice for that article bc he lacks accuracy on his deep ball is COMPLETELY disregarding the premise of it in the first place. The opposite is true as well. Say you pick Tom Brady for accuracy/touch. Then you argue well it shouldn't be him because he's not as accurate beyond 20 yards bc he doesn't have the strength to get it there effortlessly. It's a bad argument bc under the premise of the article you're giving Tom Brady Flacco/Cutler/Stafford like strength... Or giving those guys Tom Brady accuracy. If Stafford has more pure strength he's the right choice. Idk that to be true, it's probably close between him, Flacco and Cutler - I think any of them is a good choice - but the point remains.

It's probably more reasonable to expect them to make open field tackles every play- a fundamental of playing defense in football at every level - than to play tight man coverage on an island against some crafty route runners and an offensive machine predicated on precision and timing. If your point is the defensive calls exposed the weak secondary because it called on them to be near flawless in tackling, it doesn't stand to reason that they should have been called on to be flawless playing tight coverage with little to no cushion. Covering their receivers requires more stamina and talent than coming forward to make a tackle.

Can you implement cover 4 as a form of prevent defense, yes. But is what the ravens did in The playoffs prevent, no. If you go cover 4 and start 10 yards off and back pedal immediately to 20-30 yards off then that's prevent. If you come forward and aggressively play short passes, try to deny the short middle and flats then it's not a prevent defense. It's all about how you implement the scheme. Cover 4 is just how you line up. What each players responsibilities are and how they react dictates whether you're in a prevent style defense or not. We did not play prevent. But I see there's no point in arguing otherwise.

Spot on. Though I wouldn't count Pitta out just yet. I never expected him to be cleared at any point during OTAs or mini camp. That would just place way too much public pressure on him to play this year. I think Pitta is using this time off to decide what he wants to do with his family. If he wants to play I think he'll be cleared to practice once TC begins. If he doesn't he'll be placed on the PUP and eventually IR. But I think he wants to play, and as long as he wants to he will. The doctors, coaches and FO won't keep him from playing if he wants to. He might not be ready to go to start the season and they'll ease him in slowly especially since Crockett has looked so good and we have Maxx now... ....but I'll put good money on it - Pitta will play.

The crazy thing is, if there's a knock on Jernigan it's usually his ability to play the run. Among players at his position, PFF had him ranked 10th against the run with a +10.something. And that was with about only 1/3 as many snaps as almost everyone ahead of him. He was 2nd to only JJ Watt I believe in pass rush productivity. I don't want to heap too much expectation on the kid, but man does he look good. As much as I love Ngata it's going to be nice to have someone that can routinely get into the back field and bring pressure. Our pass rush struggled against the QBs that can get the ball out quick like Tom Brady did in the 2nd half of the playoff game... Because there just isn't enough time for the OLB's to get there. It basically neutralizes Suggs and doom. The only way to get there quickly enough is up the middle. Jernigan is the answer. Williams will eat up blockers while Jernigan slices his way into the backfield. The way he uses his hands to just bully and push around bigger interior lineman is just a thing of beauty. And that was him as a rookie. The more time he gets to work with Coach Brooks, the more dangerous this kid is going to be.

Where is that definition of prevent defense coming from? If we're putting things on the record please provide reliable sources.That web link in it's explanation of the prevent defense calls it the prevent offense. The writing is pretty poor - so not sure of the writer's credibility or expertise. And it seems like a copy and paste definition of what Wikipedia says about prevent defense. Although something that even these sources point out is that the prevent defense is almost always reserved for the final seconds-to-maybe-minute of a half or game to prevent the only likely way the offense can score a TD - with one long play. It also indicates taking off bigger, slower players in favor of faster ones with better ball skills. Leaving your linebackers on the field doesn't fit the profile. It's not a defensive scheme anyone would employ for elongated periods of time with plenty of game left to be played. I know you've conceded the point so it may not even bear repeating, but what Pees did against the Patriots was not a prevent defense. -- To your point of 4th quarter collapses by the defense... I have a feeling I know exactly the games you're thinking of. Most were games where the offense did literally nothing in the 1st half to 3 quarters of the game. The defense played lights out in most cases over that time to keep the team in those games. It just so happened that once the offense finally got hot, for the final quarter+ of the game, the opposing offense also happened to find an answer to have success against the defense. In most of those games had the offense done literally anything in the first half to 3/4's of the game we would've won. You can call it a late game collapse by the defense but that overlooks the great play by them earlier which is the only reason a late offensive surge was enough to make it close. Those losses could be more appropriately attributed to first 3 quarter collapses by the offense. You can say well hey the offense did what it needed to when it counted - but unfortunately the whole game counts. And had the defense not been so stingy early on, the 2 late scores by the offense would have only been garbage time consolation points.

I only brought the Pats game back up bc of your comment that the "prevent" defense was responsible for giving up easy TDs - so I challenged you to point out which of the easy TDs was a result of being in this "prevent" defense... Bc in reality the opposite is true. Pretty much every TD we gave up came on plays where we either pressed, were overly aggressive, or missed easy open field tackles where the defensive call put us in great position to make the stop. And are you arguing that our offense has been the strength of this team outside of the 2012 playoff run? Being among the best in the league in points allowed and red zone defense consistently I would say has been our strength - regardless if it's only because other teams were worse. If you near lead the league in fewest point allowed you are likely to be in every game because on average almost every team you play is giving up more points. Since you win the game by scoring more points than your opponent - I'd say that's the strength of the team considering we haven't been near The top of the league in points scored. So if our offense isn't near tops in scoring and our defense were to be similarly average in allowing points - then by averages we'd likely end up near 8-8. The defense being stingy in allowing points gives us those extra 2-3 wins.