JoeyFlex5

Very interesting, I guess they like his size and what he can do already with his routes and hands.

 

It also sounds like they want him to be well established come the playoffs (the "start him early so he's not a rookie come the end of the season" mentality).

and that is the best way to go about it. i am a huge fan of harbs, but one thing i have never been a fan of is how he is overly harsh in judging rookies, forcing a first round draft pick to cover kickoffs extensively before even seeing the field, that cripples growth, i think he learned that lesson with jimmy smith, he missed a ton of time because he was covering kickoffs vs pitt in week 1 when he should have been suiting up to see the field as a cb, ends up with a high ankle sprain and his growth was a major headache after that. i dont think its a coincidence that high draft picks ended up the starters almost immediately after jimmy's injury(torrey, upshaw, elam[blegh], mosley, and jernigan in heavy rotation) thats 4 consecutive years of rookies essentially being starters, things werent like that prior to jimmy's injury. 

im glad theyre throwing perriman into the fire, that whole "sit back and learn" thing just does not work in todays nfl, talented kids will just wither away on the sidelines with crushed confidence.

Yeah, he's bigger, got better (at least more aggressive) hands, far more fluid and already a better route runner (to be fair to Torrey, it's hard to say how much of that owed to Cam) and doesn't have the same top-end speed of Torrey imo. I don't think he'll be the same pure deep threat, but he should be a lot better as a possession guy.

 

Demariyus is closer, but even Kelvin Benjamin or Jon Baldwin may not be off if we're talking about guys coming out of college. Not to say he will be one of those guys, but I do think they're more accurate than Torrey comparisons.

idk about that, i know that 40 times dont accurately depict how fast a player is on the field, im judging off of tape. perrimans take-off seems much quicker than torreys, and i see him pulling away from db's so effortlessly in footraces, i mean there are time on perrimans tape where he beats a guy over the top, gets underthrown, stops and catches the ball, while the db is in full sprint the whole time to make the tackle, but perriman STILL pulls away after he makes the catch. i think perriman is legitimately faster than torrey, in-game as well as workouts.

I think Perriman has a lot of the same issues Torrey had as a prospect tbh. He's bigger and faster, but he is a very raw route runner who has had issues with his hands. Primarily a vertical threat in college. The comparison makes a lot of sense. He has more upside, but I don't think he reminds me of Demaryius Thomas either who is a lot more fluid of an athlete. 

perriman is alot more fluid of an athlete than torrey though, like on a whole seperate tier, he may never be an elite route runner but he shows an ability to definitely be competent. also while they both have concerns about their catching, torrey was and still is a body catcher who really struggles to get his body adjusted and get his hands on the ball and that problem has shown itself in the nfl quite often, perriman IS a hands catcher with a good sense of body control, which already puts him a few notches ahead of torrey in that aspect, he just isnt "sure handed". 

i get what you're saying and the way you look at it is alot better than everyone else saying "oh hes just another torrey smith" but i just really dont see the comparison besides the speed, inconsistent catching, and dreads. 

edit: also your analysis on the previous page is something that seems to get lost when discussing him, he needs to control his body movements better coming off the snap, he telegraphs his routes alot and it concerns me in the nfl, but its not something i think cant be coached up, and yes his release on go routes is frustrating because he cant keep the db guessing, he stutter steps on his shorter routes allowing them to close in, and then puts his head down and stomps on the gas for the go routes and lets the db know hes going deep. thats his biggest issue in my opinion

I didn't watch Perriman much until conversation with Truth during forum mock game but after watching him more and learning all this extra stuff about him that got revealed after the draft, I don't agree that he is a boom or bust guy. He may not become HoF wideout but I think he has too much of the physical/talent/determination/background makeup to miss on a decent NFL career. I see his floor as a competent #2. He also has the best QB situation of all the 1st rounders this year.

 

Be interesting to see in 5, 6 years who did what among White/Parker/Cooper/Perriman.

i think cooper and carr could be a very potent combination but the rest of their offense is just too weak, cooper is the only threat on that team. if they get a more competent all around offense then i think cooper easily has the best production. 

after that though, i think the competition for most production comes down to perriman, dorsett, and agholor actually, i think kevin white was a bit overrated and i think john fox is a pretty bad HC and cutler is too erratic to make something of a wr as raw as him, i think tannehill is the wrong qb for parker, and i think agholor and dorsett will both absolutely tear it up in their systems, i see perriman in the same light. 

so id guess that cooper takes the title while 2nd best is gonna come down to perriman, agholor, and dorsett, mostly due to the situations theyll be playing in compared to the others.

ok then im in!

is this actual fantasy football or just a forum game?

they would probably praise him and say something like "He's the next Demaryius Thomas" or something.

thats what i think too. if he goes to the team that DT plays for, he will get the more accurate comparison of, well, DT, which i think is one of the more accurate comparisons out there.

ive been wondering, if perriman is drafted by the colts, packers, broncos, or patriots, does the whole football world harp on his hands? or do they praise the pick? what player does he get compared to? theres no speedsters with dreads on those teams to automatically compare him to. 

i just cant help but think of how this pick would be perceived if he joins a team that torrey smith didnt just leave.

i dont like the look of 8's on our jerseys for some reason, i hope perriman can get his old college number, i think it would make for a great looking jersey

I agree, not going to lie, I was a Strong fan early on, I really liked him but the more tape digging I do, the less I liked him. Regardless getting him in the 3rd is a steal. 

 

The thing is, I don't think he dropped because of injury, he played through it and he was cleared by the Steelers doctors, I just personally believe that the fans and media overvalued him too much, I think teams just weren't impressed by the tape. I don't believe that without more polishing his game will transition to the NFL like that. The way I see him, he beat CB with height rather than playing up to his size. 

we all hopped on the bandwagon just because he was big and tall, what was the last straw for me was seeing his games vs marcus peters and steven nelson, he can dominate trash-tier cb's but when he faces a physical guy with even the slightest bit of ball skills he looked god awful. that just made me say no. meanwhile agholor became one of my favorite guys and went much earlier than i expected

The more I reviewed his highlights the more I appreciated this pick.

See  Highlight film is propaganda.

haha wut?

We will be talking about this up until his HOF induction.  Still had an amazing draft, now lets hope he takes some bad angles on Perriman and misses tackles on Williams and Waller.

ill definitely be talking about it for this long lmao

the bengals win the whole offseason because they drafted derron smith 

/cry

question about buck, how does his patience and vision look for the zone stretch? i havent looked really in depth at him, but from what ive seen so far it looks like he saw alot of success running a inside zone, does anyone know if he has the intangibles to be a instant success in the stretch zone or will there be a big learning curve for him?

I am not sure I agree, but I don't disagree regarding Lewis. What I will say is that I think Waller has a higher floor but a lower ceiling than Lewis. Regardless, I'm very happy to have him. I know you are, too. Just in case anyone isn't clear because it's easy to misunderstand lol

nah im definitely happy, its a 6th round no risk high reward pick lol. 

and he is in trestmans offense, with joe flacco throwing to him, id call it a good situation for him, nothing wrong with a jumpball specialist who can actually highpoint and hang on to the ball

 

Disappointing hands that led to too many drops in college

Lacks polish and technique to the position

Raw in his routes, relying on speed and athleticism over precision

Fights the ball at times, especially when working back to the quarterback

Redirected in his routes more than expected for a receiver his size

 

Similar

 

ok, first of all, he had some issues early in the season and finished the 2nd half of his season with zero dropped catchable passes, a big fat zero, secondly, take into consideration the hot garbage qb that was throwing hot garbage balls that he had to make absurd adjustments to. 

raw in his routes, true, but shows a clear ability to run them, lacks polish and refinement, but the routes are there, coates on the other hand, has straight line speed and completely lacks the agility and suddenness to break off sharp routes, perriman is much better off in that department, just needs a bit of coaching, but no amount of coaching can teach coates to just change his physical limitations. 

you did not say similar, you said literally the same player. but lets be real, they are not even similar, they have a few similar traits, a FEW, like being fast and raw, aside from that they couldnt be any more different. not to mention, perrimans raw-ness can be coached because he shows clearly superior physical ability than coates in all aspects aside from muscle mass, coates isnt gifted with the agility or natural body control to be a complete wr like perriman, nor does he seem to have the capacity to attack the ball with his hands. are you done yet? i can debunk ur wrongness all day

I know you preferred Lewis to Waller, but Waller reminds me of a larger and faster Marlon Brown. I like his run blocking and while I certainly think Lewis is more polished, I think Waller can help more as a run blocking WR than Lewis. I think that was the edge over Lewis.

i could understand that preference because of the blocking, its quite an asset to have such a dominant, willing, and experienced blocking wr in a stretch zone. but man i just thought dez lewis had some serious potential, everything about him screams true #1 wr, while i think waller is much more a longshot. 

Waller as we know comes from Gt's triple option offense. You pretty much have no idea what to expect. His lack of production/polish is due to what is asked of him in that program. But you have to be encouraged by several things: he caught 26/26 catchable balls in 2013, he improved in the last few games of the year, he has bulk to go with the height, he's a hands catcher. 6'6 230+ wrs with sub 4.5 speed don't grow on trees, and even if he doesn't make it, it was a good roll of the dice. A little patience and a creative oc who knows how to use a guy like Waller could be the difference. If you use him right he could be a matchup problem.

yeah i wasnt a big fan of his because with all of his size he doesnt seem to move very well, but then again at that size do you really need to gain separation? 

he is VERY different than the super raw 6'5+ sub 4.5 project wr's we normally see in the 6th round, those guys typically are skinny as a rail and cant catch to save their life, tommy streeter types. waller is just not that type, he has the bulk and the catching ability, he can time his jumps to highpoint the ball consistently, and he sort of seems to have an understanding of what to do rather than just run downfield. 

while i wont jump to conclusions on waller, i will say i feel better about him than any of the other oversized late round projects that never see the field.

 4.42 is slow now?

never said 4.42 is slow, im saying he is a straight line burner, while perriman is a much more well rounded receiver, and is still faster than coates. 

and to the post you quoted me on earlier, "not even close is like saying coates is 5'9 slow cant catch anything. hahah im done" 

really? youre just reaching now to stir the pot. you said they are literally the same player, ok so they are similar heights, fast, are considered raw, and have dreads, that makes them literally the same player? how about the part where perriman catches with his hands and coates is almost completely unable to? how about the part where coates has no ability to go in and out of breaks? how about the part where coates struggles greatly to adjust to the ball? how about the total lack of body control? 

youre right, same exact player, zero differences, and if i say otherwise then coates must be 5'9" and slow...

Tell me how much better Perriman is then?i know Perriman is better than Coates but by how much in your eyes? The gap isnt that huge that people make it seem. Coates is the Torrey Smith clone but he fights and goes up for balls with bad hands. i was just saying the steelers got another players that CAN boom thats what im worried about.

perriman is that much better than coates, im not saying coates is bad, but he belonged in the 3rd round for a reason. there is a chance that coates becomes absolutely nothing, he isnt running a 4.2 or 4.3, he ran a 4.42, and watching the tape you can see that perriman is faster. coates is a big strong man for sure, but all that muscle mass doesnt do much for him if he lacks the body control to turn himself around and highpoint the ball, he will make his living by hoping he can outrun db's and having the qb deliver the ball perfectly to him in stride, and if that doesnt work out for him on a regular basis(like it did for torrey) then he will bust, if it does work out for him, well then that appears to be his ceiling, a straight line burner who body catches. 

perriman has a complete skillset and better athletic traits overall, better hands, and he has alot of the things that seperate a trackstar from a real wr. 

dont get me wrong, if we were to get a guy like agholor or dorsett, someone who was a very safe pick to play a possession role with some speed, then i would have had coates on my radar just to pair the 2 up, but i would take perriman and williams over one of those combinations any day

And that why coates is a 3rd rounder. 

youre the one who said, and i quote, "to me they are the same player" 

thats just not true, not even close.

lol an analyst said perriman is a concern due to his lack of college production? oh you mean where he had the 2nd most YPC in the nation and had the highest ratio of TD's to receptions? how about the 1100 yards he gained catching dead ducks from a qb who plays like his throwing arm is asleep? who the hell pays these people man, there are certainly a few concerns about perriman, i think they are mostly overblown, but to say his lack of production is a concern is just baffling

 Im happy Oz pulled the trigger finally on WR early in the draft but guess who drafted another wr similar to Perriman? The steelers in the 3rd round got sammie coates.

To me they are the same player. On tape Coates looks faster, more physical , made bigger catches in bigger games, and plays with more heart. Look at that stiff arm he did vs Texas A&M thats some Vernon Davis like stuff and he's a WR. 

i dont know I just see Coates and Perriman having the same potential going into the NFL. Perriman is going to get more playing time cause he a 1st rounder and all that and Coates is on a stacked WR group and a 3rd rounder. im hoping perriman is a stud and i believe he'll be great for us. Its just in the back of my mind that the steelers drafted another WR that can turn out to be pretty good in the 3rd round.

 

 

i wonder if Randy Gregory or Dgb was even on their board. hmm

 

go ravens!

gregory has some veryyyy deep issues that dont seem like theyll be fixed anytime soon, doubt he was on our board, he was high at the draft, his career will be a total trainwreck, idk about dgb though it seems like they did their due dilligence on him. 

on the comparison of perriman and coates, its off. people keep comparing perriman to torrey and that is off as well, if you wanna compare torrey smith to a wr from this class, the obvious candidate is coates, sub 4.5 40 speed, no suddenness or shiftiness, no knowledge of the route tree and shows no physical aptitude to be able to run good routes due to pure straight line speed, absolutely refusing to catch with their hands and letting every ball thrown their way fall into their arms and/or body. perriman is head and shoulders above coates, higher floor, higher ceiling, perriman has astounding body control, and is tenacious attacking the ball, he really makes some absurd midair adjustments to catch poorly placed throws, he attacks the ball with his hands and grabs it, he drops it occasionally but the drops are overblown, the 2nd half of his season i dont think he dropped a single catchable ball, he shows a clear ability to stop and go and shift at high speeds, and a basic understanding of the full route tree and really all he needs is a little refinement and some teaching of the nuances of it all. 

all the talk you hear about perrimans "negative traits", is the kind of talk that should be applied to coates, all the talk about being too raw and a straight line burner with bad hands, thats coates, not perriman. perriman isnt perfect, but these "concerns" have been far overblown by misinformed people.

I agree Joey, and those are certainly intriguing comparisons.

I think one of the reason for the Torrey comparisons, is with regards to Perriman becoming a bust or not. 

Many, myself included, have argued that Perriman as a rookie is better than Torrey as a rookie (maybe even Torrey heading into his 5th season). With better coaching, QB play and a professional organization around him, it bodes well for Perriman's chances of succeeding at the next level. He should at least amount to what Torrey has done, and in that case he wouldn't be a total bust imo. 

i wont say hes as good as torrey, because we have yet to see him on an nfl level, he could buckle under pressure of living up to his fathers name and have too many nerves on the field and totally bust, ya never know. but i will say this with 100% certainty, every single thing he does on film as a college prospect he does better than torrey as a 4 year veteran

You need to switch your guards around

whoops. for some reason i always get it mixed up.