Tru11

That is neither the question (asked who gets the most yards in the coming season) nor necessarily true. Torrey didnt start til week 3 in his rookie season, and 841 yards aint that many, especialyl for a dude as fast as Breshad. all he gotta do is catch 2 or 3 deep balls per week and he could have that by week 9. He could aboslutely be a rotating reserve or situational deep threat and and pick up them yards.

in order to  do what you say he would have to avg over 30 yards per catch for 9 straight weeks catching at least 3 balls.

thats highly unrealistic and you are free to show it has been done before lol

if he avg 3 catches per game for 16 weeks he would have to avg about 17.7 yards per catch which would be among the league best.

now this could be done but he has to be a starter or he would never see the targets to make this realistic.

3 catches per game for 16 weeks = 48 catches on the season.

when is the last time a non starter @ wr caught that many passes?

heck he would be lucky to see that many targets let alone have a 100% catch ratio...

Not to mention we have this play from him

 

hahahah man that play was awesome.

to bad flacco stumbled.

would have been an epic TD and probaly some record with a QB catching a TD lol

why? you dont have to start to get yards. just makes it a little harder if you dont.

he has to start if he wants to come close to the numbers torrey had in his rookie season.

torrey  had 50 rec 841 yards and 7 TD in his rookie season starting 14 games.

i doubt perriman can come close to these numbers is he doesn't become a starter at some point.

back up WRs simply wont see that many targets unless we plan to go over pass happy this season lol.

Also torrey is going to be a starter with the niners so he will  see alot more targets and thus has a far bigger chance to produce more then perriman this season.

lets wait till perriman earns the starting job first.

Travis Taylor

Lee Evans

Gino Gradkowski

Ed Dickson

Bernard Pierce after his rookie season (harsh I know)

Kyle Boller

Troy Smith

Frank Walker

Tandon Doss, Deonte Thompson, David Reed

Justin Harper, Eron Riley, Demetrius Williams

Basically every WR not named Anquan Boldin, Derrick Mason, Torrey Smith, Michael Jackson, or on the current roster.

My gosh our teams had some seriously bad WR groups.

Troy Smith wasent that bad though for a late round pick.

He was actually won the starter job in 2008 before he had some medical issue which forced us to start flacco sooner then we wanted and the rest is history.

Heck he played a pretty decend game in that week 17 match up against the squeelers that we WON lol

Also dickson first 2 seasons went pretty much as expected and his 3rd season he was still the starter taking on rn blocking duties while pitta had the pass catching duties.

that combo worked pretty good and he even made some nice grabs in the play offs.

it was year 4 where he was awefull with his hand of stone but then again the entire offense was terrible.

dont think he is among the worst lol.

 

Ngata comments about quality where linked to the Dline.  Thanks for proving my point with this gem. Eisenberg said Ngata was talking about style and not quality.

Its why he ony mentioned Dliners in his statement.

 

Which btw is no suprise since the lions play a 4/3 defense which is a different style then the ravens 3/4.

 

3/4 dliners are space eaters taking up blockers so the lbers can make plays.

4/3 dliners are the play makers who are supposed to be aggressive trying to get in the backfield as soon as they can to disrupt plays.

 

ansah is way more athletic then any dliner the ravens had in ngata time here.

same can be said about JJ and trapp tbh but its not that much of a suprise cause neither are build like a 3/4 dliner.

 

Eisenberg is right when he said people misinterpreted ngata comments. No, Eisenberg was wrong and you yourself inadvertently pointed that out above. lol

I knew people would take it the wrong way as soon as it came up in that late for work article which i said the same as im saying now. You're just as wrong now as you were then.

 

Its really not hard to connect the dots unless you are still pissed that ngata bolted which if you read that article and this one are still plenty of people   Some may be upset with Ngata being gone but I'm certainly not. I mean, we unloaded and ageing, descending player, saved a ton of money, got younger, faster and healthier. Unloading Ngata was a blessing in disguise. 

 

quality is linked to style....

you should read the whole thing before deciding to comment.

its hilarious you completely ignored the part about going from a 3/4 to a 4/3 defense.

guess that part combined with the quality comment and the names ngata mentioned pretty much meant you where wrong.

ah well if you think ngata disrespected the ravens then go ahead.

people will be mad for no reason even if they wont admit it.

My comments in purple

Ngata comments about quality where linked to the Dline.

Its why he ony mentioned Dliners in his statement.

Which btw is no suprise since the lions play a 4/3 defense which is a different style then the ravens 3/4.

3/4 dliners are space eaters taking up blockers so the lbers can make plays.

4/3 dliners are the play makers who are supposed to be aggressive trying to get in the backfield as soon as they can to disrupt plays.

ansah is way more athletic then any dliner the ravens had in ngata time here.

same can be said about JJ and trapp tbh but its not that much of a suprise cause neither are build like a 3/4 dliner.

Eisenberg is right when he said people misinterpreted ngata comments.

I knew people would take it the wrong way as soon as it came up in that late for work article which i said the same as im saying now.

Its really not hard to connect the dots unless you are still pissed that ngata bolted which if you read that article and this one are still plenty of people 

@John Eisenberg... You're dead wrong on this one and as a matter of fact you should strongly consider retracting this entire article.

 

"It sounded like a slap at the Ray Lewis-led, high-quality defenses Ngata mostly played on during his nine years in Baltimore,".. That's because it was

 

"I think his comment has been misinterpreted." No, it was quite clear in what he said and what he meant.

 

"He wasn’t talking about the quality of the Lions’ defense compared to Baltimore’s; he was talking about the style of defense the Lions are playing.." And here's the key evidence as to why I say you're dead wrong: This is what he also said and that you failed to quote in your article which is in fact quoted on PFT form Ngata's press conference:

 

“It’s exciting, man,” Ngata said, via the Detroit Free Press. “I’ve never been a part of a defense like this. You have so many athletes: J.J., Ziggy, Caraun, Darryl Tapp. You just have so many playmakers all over the front on the D-line. I’m just excited to be a part of it.”

 

Sure sounds like he's talking about the quality of the Lions D compared to Baltimore's to me. That's the obvious and correct interpretation. He meant what he said and to try and write an article that fluffs it up to paint Ngata in a better light is insulting. And you definitely "fluffed it up" on this one.

its funny that the part you quoted and painted red pretty much supports what eisenberg is saying.

the players ngata named are all Dliners.

Its a huge stretch to suggest he was talking about the defense as a whole since he did not mention the best defenders on that team.

Cant see how this is disrespectfull to Ray unless you believe ray  played on the Dline .....

Ben right now but in 2 years flacco will be the better player.

Ben is already at his top while flacco keeps getting better and if maxx and perriman work out  flacco is going to be the top QB in the division.

Koch is the man.

frank walker lol.

worst player gotta be the guy who was behind him on the depth chard 

so nobody noticed ngata was talking about the dline and not the defense as a whole?

the players he mentioned are all dliners lol.

he seems excited to go from a 3 line men system to a 4 line men system and his primary job now consist of shooting the gap instead of taking on double teams.

most dliners would be excited for that change in role lol

in kindle defense he had a freak accident, also the worst players are probably the guys who where even worse then those you mentioned.

I did in fact read the article. My point was you said accuracy has nothing to do with arm strength but the writter in fact mentioned accuracy in the part of the article that was dealing with arm strength Thats because arm strength with out accuracy is meaningless in the NFL.. Also I never thought the article said Stafford was better than Flacco. I did say I would have chose Flacco over Stafford  but I am a self admitted hommer and yes being a self admitted hommer I would take Flacco over Brees he has the strength and touch to fit the ball in tight spaces. Dont get all freaked out Tru11 I have a lot of confidence in Flacco and rightfully so. On another point honestly I want to ask you Do you dis-like Flacco? I seem to think I have read some of your previous posts on here not liking when fans talk up Flacco.

 

 

 

 

 

 i dont dislike flacco at all.

he has come along way from being an avg QB to becoming 1 of the top QBs in the league.

there arent many QBs id take over him, but im far to realistic to act like he is the best QB in the league.

I dont mind people talking up/bash flacco or any other player/coach unless it takes extreme forms.

i wont agree if someone says flacco is better then rodgers nor will i agree he needs to be benched after a few bad games for schaub.

im probaly in the middle if you wanna place me somewhere on the extreme homer vs extreme hater scale lol.

also since you are a homer its pretty pointless to argue any further about who has the biggest arm  so i suggest we drop it lol

Quote from the article. "If he could combine that arm with some touch, he'd be tough to beat. Classic example: John Elway."

Once again another so-called biased expert from the NFL. Joe has the touch and strength. The ball leaps out of Joe's  arm when he slings it around the field and it has accuracy too boot. Even the writer noted Staffords accuracy and it's short commings in the quote above. He was not writting about accuracy in the Stafford section of his article but arm strength and some how accuracy comes up I wonder why?. Just M.H.O. Joe is better but I am a hommer and I love Flacco being our QB. I cant take away from Staffords arm strength but being biased myself I would pick Flacco. Yes I am a Flacco supporter because I can remember the Boller days when if the  offense got a field goal the offense had a good drive and did a good job.

did you read the article?

when it comes to touch the author picked brees.

are you now saying he should have picked flacco over brees when it comes to touch?

touch and arm strength are separate categories.

if combined then yeah flacco would had both beat and you would be right but its not combined lol.

the line you quoted is just to emphasis what stafford big arm lacks.

nothing more and nothing less.

seriously nobody is arguing that stafford is a better QB then flacco orso .

not even the author is suggesting it.

EDIT: also Gil Brandt is a cowboys homer who doesn't gain a thing picking a detroit over a baltimore QB lol.

He would have been real bias if he snuck Romo in there.

The article was about building a NFL QB and to build an NFL QB accuracy is a very important part of arm strength thats why people brought it into this conversation. If a guy can throw it 80 yards but cant get it within a few feet of his WR / TE who cares? However if a guy can throw it 80 yards and make it catchable then that QB has a stronger NFL arm. The simple FACT is accuracy is a very important part of all throws short, mid-range and long.

im pretty sure the article did not pick stafford for his accuracy but his arm strength which OP brought in question and him suggestion flacco should have been the choice.

did you even read the OP first post or the article he posted?

velocity isnt the only aspect of arm strength, distance is factored in as well. also, being able to throw it 80 yards with no accuracy means you are sacrificing form and control for the sake of distance, basically if you have to take away from one part of your game to add to your strength, then maybe the arm isnt quite as strong as advertised. if joe flacco doesnt have to sacrifice his accuracy or his form to add more power to his throws, that means his arm has more natural power. joe flacco can throw it 70+ yards on the money without compromising his throwing motion and disregarding accuracy, thats NATURAL power, stafford could probably get it 80 yards down the field, but it would take 2-3 steps and a long windup to do so, that is disregarding form and throwing motion, which in practice will lead to disregarding accuracy for the sake of a longer throw. 

 

the difference in these principles are apparent in games when flacco shows great control in ball placement in passes over 20 yards, meanwhile stafford too often sacrifices placement for power and depends on spectacular catches for completions, subtract half of megatrons ridiculous stats from staffords production to make it appear as if stafford had a standard wr group, suddenly the numbers arent so great if he doesnt have a 6'6" HOF WR to bail him out for years. 

 

ball placement and power control is in fact, an aspect of arm strength, which is why the boards are referencing flacco's overall arm talent compared to stafford.

ball placement and power control are an aspect of accuracy not arm strength.

those 2 elements you need if you want to throw a ball accurate not as far as you can.

the article talks about pure arm strength and the biggest reason people believe stafford has the biggest arm is because he can throw the ball far while doing it off his back foot and not what you described.

its pretty crazy how much velocity and distance he can get on a ball throwing off his backfoot or across his body.

also i think you forgot he did pretty well with golden tate who isent 6`6 nor is on his way to the HOF.

the megatron argument is  played out since he has proven he can do it with someone else.

also the boards seems to be bringing up alot of things that have 0 to do with the article and OP initial discussion lol.

Not true. It is a Flacco thread AND the off-season so we're trying not to meddle too much. Also, what makes you think ALL of the mods are huge Flacco fans? That's never been true.

actually its a thread about who has the bigger arm.

it became a flacco thread when people decided to bring in arguments and opinions that have 0 to do the topic.

i simply dont see how 1 QB winning games proves he has more arm power then another QB.

i also dont see how having better/worse receivers proves that 1 QB can throw with more velocity then another.

heck i dont even see what accuracy has to do with who has the biggest arm.

if jamarcus russel was still in the league he would probaly have the biggest arm of all QBs.

that doesn't mean he is better orso like most seem to think.

this thread has been derailed since the first page and its funny mods let it slide cause if it where derailed into a flacco bash thread it would have been stopped on the spot regardless of it being the off season , pre season regular season or play offs. 

I feel like as bad as the 02-07 bad teams were, the defense would've held their own, minus 07 when everyone was injured.

think those teams where a QB away from being a contender.

Not sure what this question is really asking - if it's just pure velocity, then I'd say Stafford and Cutler can throw the ball harder than Joe - however, Joe is one of the best deep ball throwers in the league because he's accurate with it.  Throwing it 70 yards downfield does you no good if you miss your target by five yards.  I can't count the number of times I've watched Stafford in particular get bailed out by his receivers making ridiculously acrobatic catches.

its supposed to be about who can throw harder but i guess people cant accept that flacco isent the clear cut #1 so it got derailed quick with alot of posts that has 0 to do with the initial topic lol.

mods let it pass since its a now  a i love flacco thread.

if it turned to a flacco bash thread they would have jumped in sooner then later 

Has anyone considered the distinct possibility that Brady and his receivers played a good game against a scrub secondary? I feel like that's the obvious explanation......

i dont think many are willing to give credit where its due.

And to get back to the point of playing off, press, zone, scared, or what ever, if you go watch the game, the Ravens players were very quick to break downhill on the ball. Don't think for a second that Pees didn't realize that Brady doesn't love those short dink and dunk passes. I mean, he did coach the Patriots entire defense for a few years (maybe four?). Pees probably knows better than anyone how to stop Brady, but he also realized his limitations. 

 

Pees completely understand that he couldn't run press man all day long and play up in the receivers faces (which has its drawbacks. Watch Forsett's receiving touchdown to see how easy it can be to clear out the field in press man), but again, he asked the players to be ready to attack downhill quickly. Berad, I know you mentioned an Amendola first down where the DB's were lined up about 8 yards off the LOS, but if you watch the play, Melvin attacks downhill fast enough to meet Amendola about three yards short of the first down, but fails to tackle. The receiver was still in the process of turning up field and Melvin could not tackle because he went high. That's not Pees fault for playing off. That's Melvin's fault for not going for the waist for a more secure wrap up tackle. 

 

I don't think Pees played scared or conservative or what ever you want to call it just because he played off coverage. He was actually really good about having the linebackers chip the receiver in bunch formations to not allow a free release and the players were very well able to break on the ball. It was just shoddy execution for what should have been a really great scheme to stop the Patriots offense and hold them to probably 10-14 points less than what they got. 

 

And hey, even the Patriots who have Revis (probably the best press man corner in the NFL) and Browner (a press specialist) were running off coverage and zone. You just don't do it all the time and there's nothing wrong with that.

dont forget that 1 TD they scored was when they went no huddle and then abused the ineligible substitution crap  which is now banned.

Oh yeah we have all seen Joe make throws off his back foot that go 55-60 yards but how far can he really throw today and that 74 yarder in college didn't even have a tight spiral, which is very un-Joe like. Is it 80 yards? 85? If Joe got a running start at the goal line and threw at the 10 could he get it into the end zone? I really think he could. I just don't think Stafford can do that.

stafford made a living throwing off his back foot lol

cutler is ever worse with his footwork when throwing

you could put on stafford college and nfl tape and see he has alot of arm power.

his issue is his touch and decision making.

their am power is close then you think.

Yes, I addressed that. The play-calling could lend itself to those mistakes:

 

 

 

I'm not blaming Pees for Melvin missing a tackle, I'm asking if it is reasonable for our worn-out ultra-reserve defenders to have to stick every tackle like they're Ronnie Lott for the defense to work? That's what our defense scheme seemed to need.

 

Again, that might be the only type of that play you see on 'highlights' because it was more exciting than the ho-hum variety of Brady-to-LaFell on 1st for 7 yards, Brady-to-Edelman on 2nd for 8 yards that were so common. I'll keep looking.

So you are saying play calling is the reasons players missed tackles?

im still trying to figure out what the link is between Pees deserving criticism and players missing tackles.

From this video:

 

0:22 mark, which was 1st and 10 from our 14, 2:23 left in the 1st quarter - Ravens 14, Patriots 0

 

3 DBs playing ~8 yds off alligned over their men, 1 DB in tight coverage. Will Hill, lined up over Julian Edelman, backpedals after the snap. Edelman runs a slant which Brady delivers before he gets touched. Hill is right there to make the tackle but Edelman still picks up 11 yards and gets the ball within the 3 - Brady later runs it in for their first TD.

 

0:56 mark, which was 1st and 10 from their 24, 14:01 left in the 2nd quarter - Ravens 14, Patriots 7

 

3 DBs lined up at least 6-7 yards off their alligned men and retreat after the snap. The LBs stay around the box, Upshaw moves to cover the flat. Brady throws an iffy to a wide-open Brandon LaFell who, because of the free space, can adjust to the ball and make a 14 yard catch before he is touched by the safety, Will Hill.

 

There were more but, again, I'm working with highlights. Those were easy, uncontested passes.

so what would you have done different as a DC in these situations?

its pretty standard for a DB to play off when its zone coverage.

they have to backpedal at the snap to their designed zone and if they play to tight a receiver can run past them for a big gain.

the only time you can play tight press in a zone defense is when you are supposed to cover the flats or any shot route concept.

cover 2 with both CBs defending the flat is such a play the CBs and play press the receivers at the line but the risk is that if press fails the receiver will be wide open before the safety has a chance to get there.

https://youtu.be/yHKsphx_fcY

here is a link to where we tried press man to man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUuJZQ5ap8o

here is a link to what happend when we tried to go with pressure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyQvUiVmkYY

this is a perfect example of what the matchs up would be like if we went man to man alot more then we did.

When Pees tried to do what some here wanted him to do we ended up with results like that so him having players back up and give 7 yards cushions hoping they would make the tackle as soon as the catch was made seems like the lesser of 2 evils.

6:41 which is 7:18 left in the 4th quarter, Ravens 31, Patriots 28, Patriots ball, 3rd and 6 at our 44

 

You see DBs standing 10 yards back, no one is even seen on the left side of the screen where the ball is invenitably thrown to Amendola, Melvin misses a tackle, and Levine makes a attempt but Amendola still crosses the first down marker after an effort.

 

Now I doubt you'll see many of the type of plays like in this in highlights because they were part of ho-hum 10 play drives, or were used to get field postion and set-up the more-flashy trick play and long pass. Brady and the receivers had some very easy plays because they were intentionally left open and only had to worry about breaking tackles.

 

Is it reasonable to assume that EVERY tackle will be made? Those offensive players get paid, too. The defense seemed to be predicated on hoping that worn-out reserve players defending long drives will make every tackle perfectly - that, and hoping for drops. Any error is enough margin to allow them to get first downs...

 

I'm not running Pees out of town but he is not above criticism.

what you describe is bad tackling/technique by players and not bad play calling by pees.

are we going that far now to blame Pees for missed tackles?

if melvin makes the tackle as it was designed and called , its 4th down.

this is a case of right call bad execution which usually falls on the player and maybe the position coach if anyone wants to blame a coach so bad ....

nobody is above criticism but lets keep it fair though.

People just don't like Pees.

yup