Tru11

first ballot HOF in my book.

Yeah, telling it like it is. In 2013 Case Keenum was the new starter and he threw 9TD and 6 INTs and threw for 1760 yards for a QB rating of 78.2. While that isn't exactly setting the world on fire; it was better than Schaub throwing for 2310 yards 10TD and 14 INT and a rating of 73.0. The team thought so little of them, they benched him and THEN traded their franchise QB away for a 6th round pick because they didn't want him anymore. You bring up the running game, but Keenum had the same running attack that Schaub did and yet he performed better. He didn't turn the ball over more times than he scored it.

 

As for the Raiders...I am not sure how else to explain this to you. Schaub not playing at all and being the 3RD string QB should tell you exactly what the Raiders thought of him. The Raiders....one of the worst teams in the league....didn't want Schaub starting for them. They didn't even want him to be the back up. I don't care what draft pick they used to get him. I don't care what the expecations of Carr were. You honestly don't think they would have started Schaub if he looked impressive at all in camp in order to let the youngster learn the system a bit more before throwing him to the wolves like most teams do with all of their QB's? He wasn't even good enough to be Carr's backup. He was the back up to the backup.

 

2013 and 2014 aren't a good reflection of the QB you think he can be. I think it is a perfect example of the QB he has become.

how many games did keenum win?

you do know kubiak got fired right?

he benched schaub to save his job and failed lol.

new coach comes in and decides to start over.

thats nothing new or special.

its another fact you forgot to mention.

its pretty normal for a new coach to cut ties with some of the older players to start over and get his own guys and shape the team to how he likes it...

As for the raiders.

if you draft a QB high you expect him to start sooner then later.

from the moment carr was drafted , it was his job to loose and he preformed pretty good.

its not a suprise really since he was seen as 1 of the most pro ready QBs in the draft.

you make it seem like carr is some terrible QB like manziel orso.....

give the kid credit.

he made the most of his chance and is on course to have a promising career.

seriously if schaub was really so bad as you try to make him out to be , the ravens would not have signed him to such a good deal.

you are free to provide me with your credentials that shows you are a better talent evaluator then our FO.

apparently they saw enough from 2013 and 2014 to sign him .

Seems like the Raiders made that decision last season. And you seemd to forget that 2013 was a full season for him. The Ravens paid Bulger a nice sum of money to be a back up at the tail end of his career too. That just kinda goes with the territory. If you want a veteran QB to be your back up you have to pay them the going rate.

 

What perspective do you want me to put them in? The guy totally tanked after playing two games in 2013. You want to blame his offense, but his back up put up better numbers than Schaub did. Then he was the 3rd string QB for one of the worst teams in the game of football. I'm just telling it like it is.

telling it like it is implies you told the whole story not just the parts that fit your argument.

for 2014 for instance you failed to mention that derek carr was a early second round pick who was handed the starting job.

it was his to loose and the only way he was gonna loose it was if he was as bad as manziel from both a mentally and football standpoint.

however carr was regarded as 1 of the best QBs in the draft and more pro ready then most other QBs.

then you also disregard the fact that the raiders only gave up a 6th round pick for schaub and had him restructure his contract so the raiders really had no reason at all to give schaub a real chance at the starting job.

again it was carr job to loose.

then you talked about the stats he put up but you failed to mention 1 INT came on a special team play while all other stats came in the 4th quarter of a blow out game trailing 42-0.

this information obviously put his stats in 2014 in another light.

no team will judge a QB on a special teams play and any sane person knows no QB is going to play lights out when he gets subbed in being down 42-0 with less then a quarter to play.

2013 its also hilarious how you blame him for the texans losing and even suggest the backup did a better job.

going 0-8 is not better then going 2-6.

also the back up did not have better stats at all.

back up threw less passes and thus had less completions, way lower completion %, threw for less yards , less TD, avg less TD per pass, avg less yards per game and lower QBR.

its really highly debatable is the back up was an improvement at all.

you also totally forget to mention the situation the team was in, with them being a terrible team running the ball.

schaub is and always had been a very good game manager but in 2013 he was asked to carry the team because of that bad running game.

if you have him manage a game you get a good QB , if you want him to throw you to victory you are doomed.

fits the description for a back up quite good TBH.

2013 and 2014 are not a good reflection of the QB he could be.

Except, they can only put one guy on IR to start the season... so either him or Elam.

you can put as many players as you want on IR.

only problem is that they still count against the cap.

there is however only 1 IR player you can designate for return.

I wasn't looking at the scoreboard. I was looking at statistics and while situations and all do matter, in the end numbers really don't lie. I think the results speak for themselves. If 2013 wasn't his fault then why did he finally get benched? Why did Houston let him go if he was so good, and why wasn't he starting for the Raiders? As for the ground game in 2013, sure TD production was down, but the team rushed for 1783 yards which was 20th in the league. It isn't like they had the absolute worst rushing attack in the game. So I think 2013 and 2014 say plenty. He wasn't even good enough to start for the Raiders, and wasn't good enough to be their 2nd stringer.

i think the ravens giving him a nice contract to be the back up speaks more then your evaluation of the statistics in my opinion.

doubt many teams will rate a QB based on a busted special teams play or 1 quarter of play in a season.

think the ravens also first handed experienced how a bad running game can affect a QB since flacco him self threw for like 22 int in a similar situation and i doubt anyone considered it to by all his fault.

again put things in perspective and it might not be as bad as people are trying to make it out to be.

I'd like to think those drops were due to Jimmy being in his head. LOL!

nah elam got into his after he called him old     

I've seen the posts about how this is a frivilous thing to bring up. Camp INT's don't really matter and it is nothing to be concerned about. If we weren't talking about Matt Schaub though, it might be that way. In 2013 he had his worst season in the NFL. When you look at the numbers he threw 10TD and 14 INT. That doesn't look so bad. The problem becomes how and when he threw those picks. He was eventually benched because he was LOSING his team games. He wasn't able to manage leads. He was turning over the ball repeatedly in crucial situations. Then I decided to look up his game log from 2013.

 

He won his first two games, oddly enough, these were the only two games of the 10 he played in which he threw more TDs that INTs. In 8 following games he either threw the same amount of TDs as INTs or MORE INTs than TDs. 6 of his 10 TDs came in those first two games. 11 of his 14 INTS came after those two games. So in 8 games he then threw 4TDs and 11INTs. Think about that. Then he went to the Raiders where he couldn't beat out Derek Carr or Matt McGloin. He only attempted 10 passes and threw 2 interceptions.

 

So yes, you really don't know what to make of him until you see him out on the field. Even then it will be pre season ball with backups and vanilla offenses being run against vanilla defenses. Thing is, he was out on the field the last two seasons and the results kind of tell you the story.

looking at the scoreboard alone does not tell the whole story,

1 of his INT last season came on a FG attempt where the hold got fumbled and he tried make a play.

his 2nd INT came in the 4th quarter where the raiders where down 45-0 and he was put in relieve of carr.

neither of those tell a lot about schaub tbh.

also carr is a 2nd round pick who could and should have gone in the 1st ahead of manziel.

its really not a surprise he got the starting job and he had a pretty good season when you consider how bad the raiders are talent wise.

2013 was pretty bad year for schaub but if you look further you will see that the biggest cause was the lack of a good running game which is a  staple of a offense run by kubiak.

when the run does not work then PA and such wont work either and the offense is in trouble.

just look at our own 2013 season.

Foster had 1 rushing TD in 2013 in 8 games played.

RBs had 6 TDs in 16 games with 1 TD done by a QB.

there where only 2 teams with less rushing TD and we only had 7 rushing TD as well.

so yeah 2013 and 2014 dont say much at all.

dude will be suspended for a while.

given his past stuff he could probably miss this entire season...

id consider him for vet minimum at most.

he deserves a 2nd chance and with a year off probably has something to offer.

people make mistakes and there people who played or are still playing who did far worse things IMO.

some teams could use a decent starter or at least a quality back up.

he would have to become a starter sooner then later and stay injury free.

he wont get it as a role player .

suggs thomas  scott lewis = our best lber core ever.

they where the main reason we could run organised chaos.

thomas could blitz , stuff the run and even run with receivers down field.

ray no need to explain.

scott could blitz , drop in coverage and was an absolute beast against the run and was probably the hardest hitter on the field.

suggs was a great passrusher and already a good edge setter.

scott= smith

lewis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mosley

2006 suggs <<< 2014 suggs

thomas > dumervil

before people get mad , remember that dumervil can only rush the passer while thomas could do that + everything else.

versatile players gives you the ability to be more creative.

that 2006 group was the most versatile group we ever had.

In terms of arm strength, no doubt

arm strength alone flacco is pretty much better then rodgers.

when it comes to everything else that makes a QB is not even close....

people are seriously debating flacco being in the same league as rodgers?

Everybody always hating on Flacco for no reason. Clearly he has the best Arm in the NFL. And he WILL show everybody this season

aaron rodgers retired?

just stay healthy man.

thats all we need from you.

Please tell me where I stated anywhere that these guys were worse than Flacco. I'm not even going to read your whole post because that seems to be the gist of what you're saying. What I said was the people in the media ranking these guys flip-flop them above and below Flacco so Flacco always stays in the same place. It is like people are set in stone that no matter what Flacco belongs right in one exact spot in the rankings, destined never to move up or down. So when QBs like this have rough seasons, they drop below him but are replaced by whoever is this year's hype-monster. Then, when the hype disappears from the flashes in the pan, they put those veterans back above him. There is no point attempting to prove to me that these guys have put up nice seasons. I know they have. I never stated differently.

you used romo , rivers and eli as examples saying they went through bad stretches.

im wondering what stretches you are talking about  cause i dont see them.

Well, 1/28 kind of tackled this generally, but I'll try to add a little more depth. I'm not gonna go on forever because all the info is online for those interested. Rivers has had three seasons with a pretty high interception % (over 3, including last year) to Flacco's one. He also had a fewer yards in 2012 (since this is the stat people are most critical of Flacco) than Joe had in any season after his rookie year. That year, he also had a lower QBR than Flacco has ever had in a season, for what that's worth. This followed a season where he had a bunch of yards but also a career high in interceptions and int%.

 

As for Romo, he had a very high int% in five of his first six seasons as a starter before straightening that out. He has also thrown for fewer yards than Flacco in each of the last two seasons. I'll guess most will give him a pass on that, though, because he miss one game each of those years. I don't understand why that is used as a positive when people measure stats, but whatever. It isn't like he was only 50 yards behind Flacco, either. His TD/INT ratios those two seasons are more of a reason to excuse the low passing yardage totals those years, though, but Flacco looks pretty good in that regard most seasons, too.

 

1/28 already stated how similar Eli and Flacco have been throughout their careers (aside from the fact that in 9 of his 11 seasons, Eli's team has combined for ZERO postseason wins). Look at the fact that he has led the league in interceptions. That's a good place to start with him when looking for his up and down nature.

you seem to cherry pick 1 certain stat per season to make a case lol.

i still dont see these stretches where they where worse then flacco.

take rivers.

his 3 seasons with a high int % where 2007 , 2011 and 2014.

thats not a stretch.

2011 rivers had 4624 yards 27 TD 20 INT 62.9 completion % 88.7 QB rating and 63.38 QBR.

this would 1 of flacco best seasons to date....

flacco has never thrown so many yards , only 1 he threw so many TDs, has 1 season with more picks , only 1 season with a better comp %, only 3 seasons with a better QB rating and only 1 season with a better QBR.

2012 3606 yards 26 TDs, 15 INT, 64.1comp % 88.6 qb rating and 41.53 QBR all while taking 49 sacks.

this is a pretty darn good season when you consider the amount of sacks he took.

flacco 2013 season was way worse and he took 1 less sack.

26 TD would be flacco 2nd best total of his career, 64.1 comp% would be a career best, 88.6 QB rating would be 4th best of flacco career.

you can consider these 2 seasons a bad stretch for rivers but for flacco it would be among his better seasons lol.

for romo i seriously dont know what 5 seasons you are talking about.

2006 he became the starter after 6 games and had a decend season.

2007 he had a huge season throwing for 4211 yards 64.4 comp % 36 TD 19 INT 97.4 QB rating and 71.21 QBR.

you can argue about his his 3.7 int but this would be by far flacco best season ever if he had these stats lol.

2008 3448 yards 61.3 % 26 TD 14 INT 91.4 QB rating and 48.99 QBR in 13 games.

flacco had statistically worse seasons then this...

2009 4483 yards 63.1 % 26 TD and 9 INT 97.6 QB rating 62.07 QB rating.

easily be flacco best season ever.

2010 played only 6 games.

he actually had 4 seasons with a high int % with 2010 a season he only played 6 games, 2006 being his 1st season as a starter , 2007 would be 1 of flacco best season ever and 2008 would be a middle of pact at least season for flacco.

2013 and 2014 he may threw for lesser yards but he threw for way more TDs, far lesser INT ,higher comp %, much higher QB rating , much higher QBR.

Overall still statistical better seasons then flacco ever had.

2011 and 2012 where not bad either so im still wonder when was the stretch he was supposed to be doing worse then flacco?

Eli is about the only 1 you can make a case but you would have to go back to 2006 and 2007 to consider it a stretch.

he seems to be the type that has 2 good seasons then 1 terrible 1 and then 2 good seasons and then 1 terrible 1.

2004,2007, 2010 and 2013 are his bad seasons statistically

2008,2009,2011,2012 and 2014 all where season that would statistically be among flacco better seasons.

also its hard to win games when you aint in the play offs though so not sure why you brought that up.

but since you went there im pretty dammm sure Eli is a 2 time SB MVP.

its also nice to make the play offs and win games but the ultimate goal is still to win the SB and Eli has certainly made the most out of his shots.

4 play off appearances with 2 SB victories is better then 6 play off appearances and 1 SB......

tbh its hard to argue someone had a bad stretch when you focus on just 1 stat per season, even more so when the other stats are similar or better then anything flacco has done so far.

you are right about keap , smith and RG3 and such but rivers,romo and to a certain degree Eli have put up similar if not better stats then flacco so its really not a surprise people rank them higher.

I'd like to know what exercises are included in the conditioning test. I want to put myself to the test!

someone else posted this in another thread: http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2012/07/24/the-caw-ravens-conditioning-test-is-a-bear/

basicially run 900 yards in 6 chunks in a certain time set with a certain time to rest between chunks.

time to complete the chunks and rest in between depend on weight if i read it right.

I don't really think that offers much in terms of a change. Jaws always ranks Flacco high compared others (I think he had him ahead of Brees and at 4 after the Superbowl). Anyway, that 10-12 range seems to be the most comfortable range for most in the media to place Flacco. There are different names ahead of him every year because when they realize some they had in the top ten the year prior actually stink, they still feel too uncomfortable moving Flacco up. Romo and Rivers have a bad stretch of seasons, Flacco is still behind Eli and RGIII. The latter two stink it up, well then Kaepernick and Alex Smith have to move ahead of Flacco. Oh, they turn out to be mediocre, good thing Romo and Rivers are back to form because it's ridiculous to move Flacco up any higher. Now when Peyton starts to decline drastically and Roethlisberger gets hurt again, it'll be guys like Tannehill and Bridgewater who jump over him. Flacco is stuck in his spot in the rankings.

what bad stretch of seasons did rivers and romo had?

or even eli ?

you care to post the stats of those seasons so we can see how they stack up to what flacco had?

i dont see it but im curious to know what you are referring to.

you talking about regular season QB stats or regular season W&L ?

Oh come on...

??????????

Alot of the attributes on your list can be given to Torrey(Torrey can't track a deep ball?Really?) unless you're talking about Torrey coming out of college and the majority of them are just things a big WR can do and I've already said he's Torrey WITH size.I noticed you didn't add any of the things they have in common to your list like hands problems,both running a limited route tree,both only having straight line speed,both lacking shiftiness and both actually being close in size.Perriman is only 1 inch taller and a few pounds heavier.As I said,Torrey and Perriman share alot of traits but you just gave the nod to Perriman.That's why I see it as people just knocking Torrey.Can you atleast admit that does happen often because of that last play?You have your OPINION based on "visual analysis and I have mine.I'll leave it at that.

give it up lol.

ive read both their scouting reports and they are pretty similar.

heck perriman appears to have more weaknesses coming out then torrey especially when it comes to their hands.

nfl.com actually had torrey graded higher and strength wise torrey appeared to have more reps on the bench press and he appeared to have a higher vertical as well.

torrey is 6`0 with a 41 inch vertical while beshad is 6`2 with a 36.5 vertical.

TBH the only real difference between them is that perriman ran a 4.24 40 time to go with his 6`2 which made him a 1st rounder.

if his time was any slower he would had the same round projection as torrey which would be an early 2nd rounder.

their strengths and weaknesses are pretty similar.

perriman has been compared to DT,Jeffrey and Gordon but then again also to stephen hill and kenny britt which some conveniently forget to mention lol

breshad combine report: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/breshad-perriman?id=2552597

torrey combine report:  http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/torrey-smith?id=2495459

breshad after draft with pro day results : http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/breshad-perriman?id=2552597

now notice how his grade got higher now that it shows his pro day 40 time lol.

TBH im not sure which reports they read or if they are just going by their own eye test but i have no idea what they seem to be talking about.

one trick pony, not attacking the ball , slow hands , not good at boxin out , not using his size well, trouble beating out starting caliber cbs, not physical enough; all points of criticism that fell on torrey  yet same things are said in scouting reports about breshad whether you read nfl.com, waltersfootball,bleacher or even baltimore beatdown.

id love to know what reports they where reading that clearly paint a picture that breshad is in no way or shape similar to torrey but i highly doubt they can produce 1.

if i where you i would just drop it cause its just like 

Yeah,I meant hate him as a player not as a person.

man you are wasting your breath.

they will make up whatever they can to bring torrey down just because he aint no dez or megatron....

dude is 1 of the best deep threat receivers in the NFL and for that specific role he certainly is a elite player.

they point at the yards but totally neglect the TDs.

most probably don't even know he is just the 2nd WR to hit double digit TDs since michael jackson did it in 1996.

let that sink in lol

heck lets not forget last season he accounted for 40% of all of flacco TDs.

add all the yards he drawn with those PI calls and he would have been 4 yards shy of 1000 yards, just like flacco would have been over 4000 yards if it wasn't for all those drops.

Also calling a player soft who did not miss a single game is ridiculous especially 1 who played his heart out for us just after losing his brother.

seriously the lack of respect he gets here is pretty sad.

im probaly 1 of the few but i think perriman has his work cut out for him if he wants to surpass torrey.

he will have to start sooner then later if he wants to surpass 841 yards and 7 TDs in his rookie season.

I think the Oher situation was the product of a snowball effect involving technical and mental issues, combined with inflated expectations. He came in expected to develop into a pro bowl OT. Early on it looked that way. He was heralded as a tenacious run blocker, with an amazing first step that would develop into a dynamic pass blocker with time.

Then teams started to complain about that first step, and what started out as an asset turned into a huge liability in terms of false starts. Then he got the yips and false starts became a huge problem. Then we started shifting him back and forth between positions. Then, partially as a result of the hype from the movie and his draft status, the fan base felt letdown and turned on him. After that it was just a matter of time.

Oher was definitely a disappointing player for us but the fact that we're talking about him as one of the worst Ravens ever is a testament to the inflated expectations. Similarly to Boller, was he disappointing? Absolutely. One of the worst? Far, faaar from it.

yeah people forget he started on that SB team and did not allow a single sack in the play offs.

whether people like it or not he was a big reason flacco could tear it up, same goes for mckinnie and everyone else on the o-line.

he is far from the worst player ever.

Chelsea arsenal and Man C are not legendary soccer clubs lol

Arsenal had a brief period in the late `90 to early `00 where they did pretty good.

Chelsea has been good the last 10 to 15 seasons and Man C only had success like the last 4 seasons lol.

other then tony romo is quite agree with the ranking.

seems pretty good ranking and if flacco keeps improving he will go up some more.