Tru11

8 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Just wanted you to acknowledge that the position he plays doesn't matter because the reason why he failed had literally nothing to do with the position.

Dodge away.

i was not discussing the reason he failed.

so there is nothing to acknowledge nor anything to dodge...

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And couldn't tackle at any of them.

No evidence to suggest he would all of the sudden be a better tackler at his "natural position", which is obviously debatable as to what position that actually is or if it even exists in the NFL.

Regardless, guys that can't tackle and can't cover at any level are highly unlikely to be good defensive football players, regardless of what role it is.

Never said he would be a better tackler/player at his natural position.

care to point out where i said that this, or is this yet another pointless attempt for you to argue something i did not say?

Pretty sure i have said a few times now that i merely was pointing out that he indeed did play other positions besides his natural one.
Unless you want to disagree and say he played his natural all the time , there is very little worth to further discuss...

3 hours ago, redrum52 said:

I feel like the Flacco fan club sent a sleeper cell in here to make anyone who criticize him look bad.  There's no way that person is being serious.  That is all...

probably one of them on an alt lol

37 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Not being snarky here but do you think Elam didn't pan out because we changed his position and made a square peg fit in a round hole?  I think we stunted his growth because of those "position changes" and possibly gave him too much to do and process but I think that speaks more of the player than the coaches and scouts. Elam isn't very smart, evidenced by his recent and prior activity and his play on the field proves he isn't even football smart.  Changing positions on a guy like that isn't playing to his strengths because that's giving his brain too much to do. Sadly I just don't think Elam was very good. Busts happen and he's one and Sami was right about him from day one. Gotta give that guy credit where it's due. 

i think a lot of things contributed to him not working out with part of it being him not playing his natural position for majority of his career and him not being that smart only adding to it.

i can find myself in pretty much everything you said.

But quite frankly i was not debating this at any point though.

I was merely pointing out to some of them here that Elam did not play his natural play that often at all , like they seem to think.

2013 he was the FS and 2014 he played a good part as a corner for the obvious reasons....

8 hours ago, Jonah DeVito said:

You stated Elam NEVER switched positions, I simply said he did. Never said that's why he didn't work. 

yup dude played fs all of his rookie season and was nickle corner for a large part of his 2nd season.

but ofcourse to these guys its  all the same position lol.

7 minutes ago, The Raven said:

This is a myth.

sure it is.

1 minute ago, hn68wb4 said:

I already said that he played FS his rookie year, but that isn't to say he was switched to that position, he played it because there was no alternative. Read the comment you quoted, it pretty much lays it out quite clearly.

Maybe you should read your own comment.

first you say he was not forced to switch position yet you are now arguing he played there because there was no alternative.

if a player has to play another position because they are no alternatives then they are indeed forced to switch positions.....

he was forced to play FS because huff was god awful and we had nobody else..
It really is a switch of position cause a FS and a SS have different responsibilities.
He started there for 15 of the 16 games in 2013.

Ironicially in 2014 he was yet again forced to play a different position namely that of nickle corner.
Will Hill was back after a 6 game suspension and with all the injuries at CB , he became a duo with Stewart at Safety while Elam slid in to be the nickle corner.
I surely hope you did not forget our issues at CB in 2014?
Elam was a SS for 6- 8 games before becoming the nickle corner for the remainder of the season.

But yeah 2 seasons and both he was forced to play a position he was not used to playing.

2015 he was on IR and 2016 he should have been on IR as well.

To be clear there are less then a handfull safeties in the NFL that can cover slot receivers on an island.

If you dont believe me you are free to go and watch the 2014 footage to see if he really covered slot receivers.

You guys can bash the kid as much as you want but the fact remains that probably just a quarter of the games he played for us came at his natural position....

1 minute ago, hn68wb4 said:

That would be true, but that's not at all what was being talked about. To say the coaches "switched" Elam's position implies an active decision and desire to do so, not the case with Elam's rookie year, he played FS due to us not having anyone else to do it. There's a difference between saying he was "switched" to FS and saying he just had to play FS.

nice try though

did he or did he not change positions?

there is a huge different between being a centre fielder and an in the box safety......

10 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

Neither Elam nor Brown were forced to switch position. And I'd argue that Waller's switch was objectively the right move.

1 minute ago, hn68wb4 said:

Elam only played FS for one year, so yeah, THAT'S why he didn't work out. Be serious fellas, he played SS all but that one year and just sucked.

i said nothing about that being the reason he did not work out.

i merely highlighted that he did had to switch and you even admit he had to.

nice try though

6 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Agreed.  I think they need to start making moves ahead of the curve instead of behind it, but I fully realize that's stated with 100% hindsight on my side.

I'm not sure I'd consider Perriman a "hit" yet though.  I think he's trending the right way and hopefully he turns into the playmaker that we've severely been lacking for a very long time.

You can draft as talented players as you want but if the position coaches cant develop them they will not reach up to their potential.
Besides that those players need to have that drive as well.

We where very blessed to have had a guy like brooks who could take dliners regardless of draft status and have them play great.

Our player development simply aint what it used to be.

The one thing you could probably blame on the FO is at times drafting players that dont fit the scheme.
Then again its been said numerous times that they actually ask the coaches and coordinators for their opinion about players and if they give the green light then its up to them to make it work.

Perriman is probably a good case.
He has absolutely everything you want in a WR.
If we cant turn him into a quality receiver then you must look at engram , unless perriman is uncoachable and/or simply does not have the mental capacity to learn lol

1 hour ago, hn68wb4 said:

Neither Elam nor Brown were forced to switch position. And I'd argue that Waller's switch was objectively the right move.

Elam was a in the box SS coming out of florida which we forced to play center field as a FS....

As for Brown well to be fair he was a 4-3 MLB in college projected as 1 of the top 4-3 OLB coming out of the draft ,which we then decided to use as a 3-4 ILB.

So yeah there is that.

 

there is nothing to disprove.

since drafting Julio the falcons have done next to nothing to add others WRs through the draft.
They only drafted 2 other WR in round 4 and 7 since then.
Dont think i need to list all the WRs we have spend picks on since drafting Torrey lol

TE aint even close to what we have done in filling that position compared to them.
They only drafted 2 TE since 2011 in round 3 and 4.
we drafted a TE in round 2,3 and 5 not counting waller who was a 6th rounder.

Coleman was a 3rd round pick and Freeman was a 4th round pick.
we drafted pierce , dixon and allen in the first 4 rounds since 2011.

Since 2011 the falcons have  drafted 4  oliners in round 1 ,2,3 and 7.
We drafted oliners in : 1,2.3,4,4,5,5,5 and 6.

Draft wise we have done a lot more for the offense then the falcons and i havent even considerd our pro bowl FB.

If you want to argue about FA signings then go ahead but i would not recommend it lol

Its not Q nor other teams fault that they decided to throw the ball more to Q.

Imagine if we did that from the start rather then wait till his last 4 games with us to figure out how he should be used....

Heck the FO probably wont have called him and ask him to take a cut or get trade him away .....

1 hour ago, OUravensfan said:

SSS played better under Flacco than Newton, if he didn't get hurt in 2015 he was looking at multiple career highs. Wallace is what he always has been, a one trick pony #2 ceiling type guy. As for Perriman, draft position doesn't automatically mean he will be good, I want him to excel but so far he has been the reason for his own shortcomings dropping a lot of great passes, several TDs. 

A rookie Newton had a much better season with SSS then a 7th , 8th and 9th year Vet in flacco.

Matter of fact SSS earned pro bowl and 2nd team all pro honours.

His 2nd season with Cam was pretty similiar to his first season here and his last season with cam was very similiar to his last season here.

Highly doubt if he did not get injured he would put up better numbers in his 2nd season here then in his 1st season with Cam.

Im also quite intrested what career highs he would set according to you.
You must have a lot of faith in mallet/schaub if you think SSS would have kept the same pace with then as he had with flacco lol

1 hour ago, usmccharles said:

This is my point.  How many times have we had players drop crucial 1st downs, TDs, etc....Hell. TJ Houshawhatever ended our season by dropping a 1st down which hit him right in the hands.  I know a WR doesn't improve pocket awareness, mechanics, etc....but there is no way having a WR the caliber of Julio wouldn't help this offense.

He could improve this offense that is for sure but tbh that is not really that hard to do anyways lol.

TBH if flacco can hit his receivers in stride and these receivers can make the clean catch then we have a very potent offense.

Perriman and Wallace can take any short pass to the house if they can make a catch without losing momentum.

Julio is good but not even he will be able to catch a jump ball on a slant, come down , break tackles and pick up YAC.
Odds are high he will be taking huge hits and end on IR like the rest of our team lol

 

6 hours ago, usmccharles said:

If you think having one of the best WRs in the NFL wouldnt improve Joe's game....then by all means, carry own and i will leave you be. 

it would improve his numbers.
only QBs themselves can improve their own game.

julio wont improve flacco footwork or stop him from throwing off his back foot or stare down a receiver and throw it in double coverage lol.

he will however make plays our current receivers cant make like he would probably catch and hang on onto those high passes and he probably dont drop passes when his is wide open.

18 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

So Pitta(maybe Mason) are basically the only ones who can run routes correctly each time for Joe's career?  

 

I could be wrong, but I doubt Boldin and Steve were poor route runners yet still would have to adjust for the ball.  I'll give you Jacoby, Torrey, Perriman and a few others.  In your boys defense, it seems like everything can't ever work at the same time, which is what made the SB so special, to me.  It wasn't that they played above their potential, but just showed what they are easily capable of, for a CONSISTENT stretch.

there really is no excuse for the players not being on the same page and not having chemistry TBH.

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

And the thing is, we all know Joe is capable of being accurate and having good ball placement because he did from 2010-2014. He just hasn't in '15 or '16. Why is that a crime to say?

the crime is that it suggest flacco is not perfect.

if its not even his fault that a pass is extremely high then well yeah nothing will ever be his fault...

So the solution to these extreme high throws is to find Calvin Johnson clones rather then the QB just not throw it that high by fixing his footwork?

On 10-2-2017 at 8:02 PM, Willbacker said:

Man you sure putting a lot of faith in Pees lol. I'm thinking you might get arrested.

nah im putting my faith in it being the jags and the offense being better then last season lol

then again if we loose wagner and dont adress the o-line and receiving core , ill be  increasing my work out regime.

gotta at least look in shape when juking them stewards hahaha

14 minutes ago, The Raven said:

See, this is the part where Flacco critics frustrate me. Who are we as message board nerds -- who oftentimes don't watch the All-22 tape -- to question the football intelligence and defense reading of someone who actually made it to the NFL? It's not as if the TV view even shows the defensive coverage. I know he's not even close to the best mind -- that's fair to say -- but what credibility do we have to judge it? Do you watch the All-22 tape? Can you tell me what coverage shell a defense is in on a given play? Because if you're going to definitively say that Flacco can't read a defense, you should be able to tell me what you saw in the defense. Otherwise, where is your credibility?

When I have time to watch the All-22, I don't question Joe's ability to read a defense or his intelligence. I question his decision making. A lot of times, he holds the ball, waiting for the big play. Then he forces passes or takes unnecessary risks.

He's not a WCO passer. He doesn't throw the ball in rhythm. He doesn't throw the ball on the break like other QBs do. He waits. And that results in a lot of check downs, picks, and incompletions down the field.

Dont decision making and football intelligence go hand in hand?

agreed though that he is not a WCO passer.
was wrong to turn him into 1 TBH.

waste of his big arm as well.

6 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Thanks for enlightening me. In reading this it seems the facts point to the obvious(to most) reasons for sub par passing game performance. Poor receivers, lack of YAC, conservative play calling and injuries. 

So Wallace and SSS are now poor receivers?

10 hours ago, berad said:

He had space if he would've stepped forward rather than run to his right. He out-ran his blocker and it got him hit. The defender in the middle was being double-teamed and was neutralized, his blind-side rusher was on the ground.

As to anyone being open, that's on play-design/selection and the WRs I guess.

Can see it again from this angle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7JH-Newv6Y

Outside of turning the ball over, the last thing the Falcons could afford was a 12-yard sack. For great plays made (or disasterous plays avoided) under pressure in a Super Bowl, look no further than your boy Joe Flacco! At the 1:47, 4:39, and 9:04 marks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNj4XHGDv0

I think that it IS enough time to react to the pressure, yes, we see this all the time in the NFL. It's almost instinctual with these guys, sometimes. Is it fair to ask or could I expect to do it? Absolutely not. You always hear it's a game of inches, though.

 

that angle is a slow motion zoomed in replay.....

yeah a guy like rodgers has the instincts to make such a play but he is also about the only guy who can do just that.

matt ryan has never been that type of guy so expecting him to become one is not fair at all.

for the record a guy is not neutralized when is in the backfield sacking the QB lol.
the other rushers who got stood up at the LOS where neutralized.

these 2 rushers had beaten their man badly.

if anyone is to blame its them TBH but quite frankly id still say it was a bad play call followed by an even worse one where the o-line got beat again and called for holding.

im trying to hint at the o-line getting beat and bad play calling....
lets not forget no receiver open as well.

pretty sure these where well used excuses this past season for us and are pretty much recurring excuses.

quite curious what has matt ryan done to you guys that for him this is not even considered and he should shoulder all the blame?

Yeah flacco was impressive on the 4 game SB run but lets not pretend there have not been quite a few other games where he lost or almost lost us games in similiar situations and the theme has pretty much always been that it was never all his fault..

you dont see a guy coming from his blind side and 1 coming up the middle at pretty much the same right after he was done with his drop?
not sure where you wanted him climb the pocket to be honest, nor did i see anyone open , nor do i think its a wise idea to attempt a pass while going backwards with a defender all over you.
i mean you actually see a defender running to the sidelines so throwing it away seems very risky....

but before we continue i would like to know if you guys actually believe what you are saying.

cause i dont want to hear any troll accusations every time i bring this up when flacco is under pressure and its a negative play.
lord knows if we loose wagner and dont upgrade this o-line its bound to happen with marty pass happy ways.

if you guys actually think that a split second is enough to see pressure , evade and make a decision to throw it all within that time span then i can live that.
 

1 minute ago, gtalk12 said:

I tried desperately to access all that without have to pay to subscribe. That number I used was his average time getting the ball out. That play where he took the loss for 12 yards after watching the play was minimum 3 seconds with a defender he clearly saw from the beginning which made him continue to back peddle.

im quite confident that after he took the snap and started his 7 step dropback , he was looking at his targets and not how the o-line was blocking.

that said on a 7 step back you should have more times then 2 seconds before a defender is in your face......