Tru11

2 minutes ago, regz1997 said:

The biggest beef that I have with this pick is not necessarily the guy we selected, but how it's possible he may not step in and start immediately. With Smith, Carr, and Young in the slot, we would be set for one year, then could move on to a better corner than Carr at the CB2 slot. That's when it looks like Humphrey will make his biggest impact. Humphrey is not ready to start year one, and looks like he will need a redshirt year to really make a difference.

Yet, by that reasoning, we could've selected Allen, Foster, Howard, or hell even Robinson, then selected Washington's Sidney Jones in the second. Jones is a better corner than Humphrey in my mind who will need a redshirt year too. That pairing of an elite player with Jones seems like the smartest thing we could've done. 

jimmy smit skill set is what fits this ravens defense and humphrey is the closest thing to that skill sett.

means you can have 2 jimmy type of players on the outside and you might not loose much scheme wise if jimmy goes down.

think a lot of people are over looking that humphrey is a similar type of corner as jimmy.

this is a good scheme fit and humphrey can learn directly from the guy  his game is similar to.

with jimmy tutor humphrey he might not need a lot of time to adjust to the pro game.
took jimmy almost 2 seasons to become the corner he is now.

2 minutes ago, sizzlingdoom said:

You would be 100% correct if we took someone like Tabor or Awuzie. Not to mention they're still on the board.
This guy got absolutely torched down the field, IN COLLEGE, with one of the best Front 7's of all time in front of him................
You're telling me you want that going up against Brady and Ben? When It matters. Especially this year? We'll see.
In any case, I agree, let's kick butt day 2. It IS make or break time

weddle over the top as the centre fielder.

problem solved.

37 minutes ago, sizzlingdoom said:

3 Safeties won't be on the field that often.
And wait a second, you're telling me we'll need to roll coverage every time because the 16 overall pick can't hang by himself? Jimmy did not have problems playing the ball or covering down the field coming out. And he certainly didn't have one of the best college front 7s ever playing in front if him.
We'll see. I hope I'm wrong

no but odds are 2 safeties will be on the field on pretty much every play.

well if you have a shut down corner on the other side then you have the luxury to do just that.
not to mention the are very few rookies that became shutdown corners from day 1,  if there are any.
expecting that from a guy just because he got drafted in round 1 is stupid.

also did you just start watching the ravens after the SB orso?

jimmy in his rookie season got burned quite a lot deep and it als happend a lot in his 2nd season.
he pretty much fell for any double move and could not recover.
he became a quality corner who did not need much help in year 3.

Corner is 1 of the hardest positions to adapt to coming to the NFL period.

our defense goes to hell every time jimmy goes down , so we draft the guy closest to jimmy and people are upset lol.

jimmy has same issues early is his career giving up big plays and he fixed it well.

humphrey will be on the same team as jimmy so he is actually in the best position he can be to learn from the guy his game is similar to.

44 minutes ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Have you watched any tape on him, and I'm not referring to the highlight good stuff. Every analyst and fan can see that he gets beat deep. The stats even back it up. Big games, everything. Even on the best D in college, with an absurd front 7. Please tell me how a College starter that gave up 18 yards a catch as a starter, on that D, in college I repeat, is going to help vs Ben and Brady? Especially if he plays this year? He would've been an interesting option at 47 maybe. We've been playing checkers in the draft for a while. There's a reason we've been falling off, for a while now

so you forgot that the ravens have 3 top 15 NFL safeties on the roster?

with jimmy locking down his side you can roll coverage towards humphrey.

tbh jimmy had the same issues early in his career and ended up well.
conveniently humphrey is being compared to jimmy so he can learn up close and personal from him.

53 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

at saftey he could be a deone bucannon type. 

I'm kinda shocked the FO see him as a shadow corner. He's superb at the Line..he jams better than jimmy smith did at colorodo but boy when he has to turn his back and the ball is in the air he's useless!

deone bucannon does not play safety ....

41 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

Why did he choose a corner that is more suited to SS? thats my issue. Why didn't he trade back? He overrated Marlon tremendously, they see something that isnt there. He will struggle.. if this was marshon lattimore or even a sidney jones i'd understand the pick, they are playmakers and fluid . HUmphreys really struggles with ball location and playing the ball in general. That isn't something you can ''teach'' you either have it or you dont. 

 

Ozzie really needs to go IMO.

in order to trade back you need someone that wants to trade up and pay the price to do just that.

same goes for trading up, you need someone that wants to trade down for the price you are willing to offer.

AJ Green is a very fluid receiver and an excellent route runner at that.

Williams looks more like Kelvin Benjamin tbh.

so ross is the guy that can separate and get open while williams can make highlight reel catches.

mind blown.

football IQ

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

Why the hype? 

Assuming health, he can get separation like no one else in this class, he is a guy defenses will have to account for every snap, we can actually have a good returner again. Tons of room for improvement as well as while he is decent at routes, he can certainly get better there. 

Also Perriman made plenty of spectacular catches but had quite a few drops in college. Think his drop rate was around 15%. And while Ross doesn't win jump balls a lot(wow, go figure with his size), the guy has had his share of really nice catches and his drop rate for last year was less than 5%.

Reasons why I would be concerned, health, not winning jump balls if your quarterback can't throw a deep ball where Ross doesn't have to wait everytime for the ball. Second one doesn't really apply to us although you could argue fit as we already have a ton of speed on the field. I'd just say Ross can win underneath with that quickness as CBs will be too scared of his speed. And if you give him extra attention, that opens things up for Wallace and Perriman. 

Not my favorite pick at 16 but if healthy I would be fine with it and comparing him to Perriman based on 40 times is a disservice to both players.

all hail zen-oh sama

smh.

if i did not say those words , i was not implying it in the first.

if you cant quote  that i said/implied that , it means i did not say or imply that.

its really that simply.

i say what i mean, i dont say 1 thing while meaning something else.

that makes no freaking sense.

dammm people always get so freaking defensive and salty when you dont agree or say something they dont like.
 

16 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

It's not useless when the DB's are garbage and dont have the ability to jam at the line. I'll go back and rewatch... but most of his red zone TD's that i saw were a CB playing him near the line, in isolation, and doesnt reroute him at all; ross gets a clean release and it's essentially a race to the corner on a fade. QB knows Ross' speed so just puts it far enough where the only person that can get to it is Ross. So either an incomplete pass or easy TD.

And if they gave him a little space, he'd take 2-3 steps and break inside on a slant. Just a race to the inside.

Yea you have to have suddenness to use your speed effectively in the Red Zone - which  Ross does have -- but its all still tied to speed.

 

Not to mention Pac 12 defenses arent exactly great... and not exactly known for being big/physical defenses. Which is what i imagine Ross struggling against to be anything other than a deep speed threat.

 

The game against Alabama is a perfect example. He couldnt do anything bc they know how to play him and have the athletes a CB, S and LB to take him away. 5 catches, 26 yards. Bc they got physical with him, let him get his short catches and then hit him. He's racing for separation on short passes, not route running for separation, which is why the CB was there to make the tackle right away on him.... bc on short stuff you just cant get to your top speed -- which he relies on for most of his space.

Which again, its great. Im not knocking the guy. Speed is dangerous in the NFL. And hes got it in spades. Its not just a 40 time, you see it on tape. Maybe the fastest guy ive ever seen on tape. And thats going to give him opportunities, absolutely. But im confident he will be far less consistent in the NFL, because he doesnt have the other skills to defeat any type of coverage put against him. And, what i like about him we're already pretty good at in the passing game.

You have to be balanced, diverse, able to do different things well and win in different ways. Whether its getting short yardage carries and also having a guy that can break big ones. Whether we're talking D and having OLB's that can get after the passer, but you also need guys who can set the edge be disciplined, get off blocks and tackle.

Youve got to have receivers that can get open with speed and make big plays... but youve also got to have size and be able to make contested catches bc no one in the NFL is getting open for easy catches regularly. THATS what we need. Especially if we're gonna run the ball alot more, and if we're not going to have a dominant OL.

Doesnt make contested catches, is not good at working back to the QB if he doesnt win his route initially, struggles to get off against physical CB's (which is a lot of teams in the NFL), and idc what anyone says his short/intermediate routes are not that good. Theyre good for a burner, but theyre not good.

 

Hes Will Fuller... would i love Will Fuller? Yea. Prob not at 16 though, and id much rather have Hopkins. Fuller becomes a whole heckuva lot better when you have Hopkins already. We dont.

Hes Desean.... would i love Desean? Sure. Not at 16, and hes a whole lot better when hes got Mike Evans, Garcon, Jordan Reed, a Maclin or someone like that to make his speed more dangerous.

Speed and size/over-the-middle-beasts are a killer combo. I mean Torrey/Jacoby and Boldin/Pitta. That was our magic combo.

But Torrey/Jacoby along was awful. I doubt Torrey/Jacoby/Wallace wouldve been great. I dont think Ross/Wallace/Perriman is anywhere near as good a combo as Williams/Wallace/Perriman or even Davis/Wallace/Perriman... maybe even Wallace/Perriman/Juju. It's balance. Its ability to attack different levels in different ways.

Even if Ross was a superior player I wouldnt want him, because the end results wouldnt be superior in my projection.

williams and davis are outside receivers.
same goes for wallace and perriman.

so who is going to play in the slot and who is going to ride the bench?

52 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Ok, but the injuries are real. And if you acknowledge they're a reason not to take him above 16... why is it so wrong to not want to take him at 16.

He has the injuries for that reason. He's like 5'11", 180lbs. With bad knees.

Speeds the first thing to go with bad knees.

Take away the speed, and the tools arent there to be a #1 WR. 

 

I dont think anyone's hating on him. I recognize he's a good player and may be a play maker. But when i look at everything outside his speed, i see average to pretty good. So if you take him high, you're placing a pretty big investment at that speed -- bc it is what will separate him in the NFL and make him truly dangerous. His ability to separate, get YAC, make big plays - all tied to that speed.

And a guy with 2 bad knee injuries already, makes that big of an investment unwise imo. If you hit the jackpot, great.... if you dont you used the 16th pick to maybe get a Tyler Lockett type player, and if the injuries show up and sap his speed you have a guy who likely isnt serviceable in the NFL.

If he didnt have 4.2 speed, and more like 4.45-4.5 speed - no ones touching him in the top 2-3 rounds.

speed is useless in the redzone where ironically ross shined more then any other WR in the draft....

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

And I agree that he needs to improve his game, but if so many other elite qbs have these WRs to make miraculous catches then what is so wrong with wanting to give joe one? 

Oh I remember, you hyperbolize everything and argue for the hell of it.

who are these elite QBs that have to rely on their WRs to make miraculous catches?

better yet id like to know what % of the catches that these WRS made can be labeled are miraculous.

11 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm suggesting we build an offense that better suits our qb. Not throw inaccurate jump balls all day. Having receivers who can catch the ball in those occasions where joe is off by a little bit is better than a receiver who can't make the adjustment. 

im suggesting our QB needs to work on his areas of weakness rather then we avoid good players because of that.

throwing jump balls short of the marker is not going to improve our offense even if we can get a guy that can catch majority of them.

the odds of catching an off target jump ball and then getting yac is slim at best and every time a receiver has to go up and try to catch a ball they are prone to taking a big hit.

building an offense based on this is not a recipe for success.

19 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Duh. 

your point? 

How is Ross gonna get YAC for us if flacco isn't hitting him in stride on crossing routes consistently? It's probably the weakest part of his game. Mold your offense around joe and stop fitting square pegs in round holes, if you want a john Ross and perriman and Wallace on the same squad with flacco at QB then build a damn OL and hit them deep, don't get a small injury prone guy and let him get crushed over the middle because the offensive pieces don't mesh together and you're not doing what our qb does well.

throwing jump balls and less then accurate passes is not a positive.

if that is what your QB does well then you are in trouble regardless of who you draft.

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

The last part is what I'm trying to get at. I'm not downplaying the guys abilities, I just prefer a different skill set because flacco has a tendency to slightly misplace the ball, don't go after a guy who needs to be hit in stride to take advantage of his talents, get the guy who our team can get the most out of. That paired with the injuries makes me not a big fan. And if we take him at 16 I'll be on board, don't get me wrong, I know what he's capable of...

And also Antonio brown can make some damn impressive catches, he does it way more often than the typical undersized receiver

jumpballs dont lead to YAC.
hitting players in stride does.

18 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I think all this talk can easily be summed up by what most of us here agree upon:   Joe has not performed up to what he is being paid.

It blows my mind this thread has made it this far about something we all basically agree upon. 

it made it this far cause majority did not agree with that at all making all kinds of excuses.

it was after the season ended which was around page 70 orso when people kinda came around and start agreeing to that.

last 30 pages are just mindless crap about trading flacco with no regard to cap implications and 1 certain person typing god knows what with people quoting him for whatever reason as well......

the amount of redzone TDs he had compared to other receivers and the speed he has is worthy of a lot of hype.

think he had the most redzone TDs of all wide receivers.

he is more then just a deep threat .

could be excellent in the slot with perriman and wallace on the outside.

pick 74 could be a valuable asset to trade up in this draft.

teams generally want picks when trading down and not players.

jernigan was going in a contract year anyways and was not that productive unless you count dumb penalties.
odds are we would not have resigned him and he was not playing at a level to notch a 3rd round comp.

cant be that mad though.
next man up.

we are losing 1 tackle and a sack per 3 to 4 games.
impressive to some here i guess...

1 minute ago, ravensnation5220 said:

It's simple. The inability to finish. We lost a handful of games in the 4th most notably:

Redskins, raiders, patriots, Steelers, giants. 

We could have won all those games if we made a couple more plays in the 4th quarter. 

if you make more plays during the first 3 quarters , you don't have to worry when its the 4th quarter.

5 hours ago, Shawnbrady said:

Here is a question....We have given Joey F millions of dollars to lead us to another ring. Why hasn't the brain trust invested in a offense line to protect him. I don't understand letting the talent and pro bowl players we have had on out "O" line leave. Think about who we have lost over the last 5 years.  IDK is it me? Joe isn't going to beat to many teams running for his life.  Wagner loss this year KO the year before and the list goes on and on its mind blowing........We need help in other areas granted but please you have spent how much on a QB its time to protect the investment!!!! 

ravens made a few trades for o-liners.
signed some from FA.
drafted quite a few as well since flacco got drafted.

to say they did not invest in the o-line is a fairy tale .

heck they paid yanda a lot and apparently where offering wagner and osemele a lot of money to stay.

not much you can do when players want to leave or when they simply cant become starting caliber NFL players.




 

make PI reviewable.

Von Miller is just 1 player on 1 team that is not even in our division.

Drafting a RT in round 1 or 2 just to consider him is crazy tbh.

Not to mention with Stanley being pretty darn good , we can easily give the RT all the help he needs to slow any pass rusher from that side down.