Tru11

25 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

Those saying yes have visions of Elliot dancing in their head and believe we should draft the next one. I'm not convinced that there is such an RB in this draft and also have to remind people that Elliot, while clearly super talented, performed based on the O line in front of him. Think of this - had we drafted Elliot ... what would he have looked like in 2016? 

I suppose it is possible that we'll feel the BPA is going to be an RB, I don't think that will be the case. And if we even use need as a tie-breaker for tier 1 talent, an RB will not be taken 16th overall in this draft. 

so you want to pass on surrounding flacco with an elite talent?

Cook and fournette have the tools to become elite players in the NFL.

1 hour ago, ALSKAN RAVEN FAN said:

I am a big Flacco fan PERIOD!!! That said this year he has to improve but Oz and Harbs have to get him guys who can make plays at the right time.

now or never for perriman and maxx i suppose.

fournette or cook should be fine if the good CB, olb or WR are gone who are worth that spot are gone

26 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL getting younger at the position generally doesn't involve signing a 28 year old. That would involve signing a 21-23 year old, which is almost certainly what we will be looking to do.

All moot of course, because you're not spending top dollar on two safeties at the same time, especially when they aren't home grown.

yes it does.

28 years is not considered old in the NFL.

 replacing a 30+ player with a 28 year old is getting younger and not older.

20 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No way we could afford both, nor do I think Berry would be even available.

Also would think we would emphasize getting younger at safety, not older.

berry is 28.

weddle is 32  and webb is 31.

will be doing everything i can to get a ticket or 2 for sure 

4 hours ago, usmccharles said:

He was also sacked one time in those two games...yea sign me up

yup.
Give him a solid o-line , a vet/rookie receiver or both to go with the current guys and he would have very few excuses to not raise his level of play.

4 hours ago, Jonah DeVito said:

Being a top 10 defense means nothing if you can't finish games. 

that top 10 defense is the only reason we where in the position to finish games.

without that top 10 defense games would have been over before entering the 4th quarter....

5 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Flaccos best year was 2014....

 

Finally, a Joe hater actually give some type of parameters

I dont hate him.
Play off Joe is our best shot at another SB.

However we need play off Joe in the regular season.


 

25 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

So a 62% completion rate, 3:1 TD/Int ratio and about an average of 270 yards?

If he can do that in the regular season that would be awesome.

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

what is your 'par'?

His play in the 2014 play offs comes to mind.

He was pretty darn good.
 

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I personally would prefer to form an opinion that's more meaningful, i.e. it aligns or at least coincides with how people that actually make these decisions think about things.

Having an opinion is easy. Anybody can have one. Requires very little thought, very little rationale or reason. I could say that my judgment of how productive a QB was is based solely on how well he touches the Center's butt when he takes a handoff. Its an opinion, and its my own. Its a bad opinion, and I know that, but hey its an opinion so clap clap for me.

I'm not interested in bad opinions. They do no good for anybody, myself included. In my opinion, its just being lazy. Go to ESPNs stats page, look at the guys who threw for the most yardage, and say "yeah that guy must be good... look at all those yards". 

Lazy.

have i asked you what you personally prefer?

i personally wish you would stop telling people stuff they did not ask you.

if you dont want to know my opinion their is an ignore button you can use.

its really lazy that you dont use the tools that are provided to you.

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. You probably won't see playoff Joe show up consistently in the regular season. If you did, then his contract would be a bargain. Plus, next year is year 10. Why are fans expecting a different QB in year 10 than what they saw in the first 9? Fans mock the FO for "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" (the definition of insanity), yet fans are sitting here going into year 10 being like "I expect Joe to play at an All-Pro level", despite him showing nothing like that in 9 years. How is that not fans being insane?

We all know what kind of QB he is. He shows glimpses of greatness mixed with inconsistent play, and if he gets to the playoffs, he's as good as any QB out there. He had a good year in 2014 and fans still weren't that content with it, so its not like they are all of the sudden going to start liking the guy.

So to me, that sounds like we should focus on putting some players around him that can help him to get to the playoffs. Its not a QBs sole job to carry a team to the playoffs... we see every year that getting to the playoffs can be done with pretty bad QB play (see Houston pretty much every year). Increase the quality of play around him and help him get to the playoffs, instead of asking Joe to help others get to the playoffs. Then once we are there, anything is possible.

2. Fans complain about everything. The fact that we are having a discussion about his contract, while you simultaneously acknowledge that the only solution is that he just needs to play better, is even further verification of why discussing the contract doesn't matter. With most players, if you aren't happy with the player and his contract, you ditch the player or renegotiate the contract. With franchise players like Joe, that simply doesn't happen. So if the only remedy is for him to play better (which I agree with), then why is the contract even in the discussion?

1 for someone that has the 2nd highest cap hit of all QBs , Play off Joe is what we should see in the regular season as well.

2 i have no issue with his contract if his play is up to par.
Play off Joe is well worth the 2nd highest cap hit or even the highest cap hit of all QBs.
Regular season Joe not so much majority of the time.

If play off joe shows up in the regular season very few would complain and im confident we would be in the play offs.

9 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, but you're missing the point. What you consider to be "producing" isn't what NFL teams consider to be "producing", especially at the QB position. NFL teams don't just sit there and say "man that guy threw for a bunch of yards last season... lets lock him up" or "man he didn't throw for many yards last year, lets ask for a paycut or cut him". The NFL doesn't work that way.

I could care less about whether its a "record setting" contract or not. The difference between a "record setting" contract and a normal contract for a QB is just a few million dollars a year, which would basically buy the like a couple reserve lineman or one good quality depth player. The difference between Joe Flacco and Brock Osweiler in 2017 is like $5M on a salary cap of over $160M. Why the hell would I care whether its a "record setting" contract or not? I damn well better be willing to pay for a record setting contract if that's the alternative I have, and that's pretty much what most teams are stuck with at this point.

That's what you don't understand. Your perception of "production" doesn't match what teams perception of "production" is, and therefore, it doesn't make your perception of "production" meaningful at all.

The sooner fans begin to comprehend and understand that NFL teams don't just have this scorecard that ranks QBs by yardage or TD passes and considers many more types of information in their contract decisions (mostly supply and demand of the position and the alternative cost), the more educated fans will be about it. So then, when a guy who doesn't "produce" gets a large contract, you'll start to understand why.

my perception of production is meaningful to me as i was using it to form my own personal opinion.

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

So, tell me. What should Joe Flacco get paid, and how do we remedy the situation?

These are two questions that Flacco haters can never seem to answer, preventing any kind of intelligent discourse.

The remedy lies with Flacco.

If Play off  Flacco show up in the regular on a consistent basis i doubt you will hear anyone complain about him tbh.
You wont hear me if he plays that good in the regular season.

Quite frankly id invest in the o-line and bank on him achieving that play by giving him a solid o-line.
Resign Wagner and then get a C in the draft and hope lewis can hold his own at LG.

Then look for another receiver to compliment Wallace, Perriman and Moore.
Maybe a vet or a Rookie or both.

Then its up to him to produce to the level he is capable off.

If he does majority wont complain , if he doesent well we get this joke of a thread.

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

What production?

http://www.dummies.com/sports/football/offense/the-quarterbacks-job-in-a-football-game/

4 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

and what measure will you choose to work this out with?

his production compared to his peers.
 

1 minute ago, rossihunter2 said:

that's how the cap works, and that's how inflation works

and that's how within a couple of years flacco's contract will be unremarkable compared to his peers who will all be paid more - remember that kirk cousins, tyrod taylor etc will both be paid this year in all likelihood and tyrod will likely be on the open market... that or he makes 20 million per year

and next year will likely see derek carr get paid and maybe even teddy bridgewater, jimmy garropolo, and aj mccarron - derek carr in particular will get boatloads of money

when his cap hit falls out of the top 10 like his plays has i will stop mentioning.
when his plays is up to where he ranks at that time i will stop mentioning this.

7 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Cap space goes up, cap space goes down. It fluctuates. Happens at the team level, happens at the player level.

The basis for cap space, by definition, involves things like length of contract, guarantees, and annual compensation. How do you think they come up with that number?

With large contracts like Joe's, this kind of information is often known years in advance also. 

and this brilliant insight of your chances the fact that he has the 2nd highest cap hits among QBs in what way exactly?

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And a relevant one. Looking at entire contracts, including guarantees and length, would obviously be more beneficial than just saying "well he's got a high cap number next season". 

not to my point.

maybe to what goes on in your head.

the cap number is actually the most important part since it determines how much of the cap gets eaten.

the more cap gets eaten the less cap you have to spend somewhere else.....

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

That would be a one year snapshot of a multi-year contract.

brilliant observation.

7 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

To be fair, we forced that kickoff fumble

we as in the special teams or we as in the offense?

2 minutes ago, Jonah DeVito said:

I was hoping Pees would retire, as I knew John wouldn't make the move to get rid of Pees himself. 

makes little sense to fire a DC who had a top 10 defense lol

12 minutes ago, ludy51 said:

People complaining about Joe's contract need to peruse the other QB contracts around the league

only tony romo has a higher cap value then flacco going into 2017.

what other positives are there when looking at other QB contracts?

1 minute ago, RaineV1 said:

Yeah, I agree that the PPG was misleading in terms of what the offense was actually like during those games. But that's how Harbaugh will spin the "improvement."

pats game where pretty much points handed to us by pats special teams fumbling it away at will lol.