Tru11

Im talking about having confidence in Sira starting and it somehow ended with 9/11 , court of law and god knows what.

i am officially throwing in the towel with this thread.

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

Dude was most pressured QB in the NFL and it wasn't even 50% of the time

congratulations ?

3 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

Well duh but there is a reason people expect more out of first rounders. They are taken first for a reason.

And if we trade for someone cool but why bring that up if you are confident in the young guys? You aren't.

Confidence in a 4th rounder playing a new position as a rookie? I'd say that is a huge risk. I mean you are really reaching at this point. I mean all that text and that is the best you got? You are just playing this card so you can bash on Flacco when things don't go ho hum. 

I'd love to see these guys succeed but I don't expect every 4th rounder to start immediately. It is called objectivism. Just like you don't expect Pees to do well when everyone is injured right? Funny how then those guys all end up being bums when it suits you but on offense in the offseason these guys are gonna be studs haha. 

Also Wilson with that duct tape O-line wasn't even pressured half the time last year(38%)? Did you see that Seattle O-line last year? It makes 2013 look good and I do not say that lightly. So it would take a pressure rate worse than that for you to go easier on Flacco? Welp, my work here is done.

Judging by the welcome Sira thread im not the only person who has confidence in the fella.
I also have him start as a guard which is the position he played, have not endorsed him playing another position at all so i have no fking idea where you get this BS from and what it has to do with what i said.
You are the one reaching by using what other people say against me.

Also you do know Lewis was a 4th round pick right?
Drafted as an OT who played G and will probably play OT this season.
Did a pretty good job last season.

Wagner was good when he got the start as a 5th round rookie at RT and never looked back.

I dont expect flacco to do good either if we have injuries on the o-line which i already have said numerous times now.
So im giving him the exact same treatment i gave Pees.
That i would say i pretty objective.

Also like i said i was praying from Young to start over wright sooner then later.
So its pretty much inline with having Sira start as well , just Lewis did and proved it could work out.

Actually as i said the numbers i gave was just an example.
If you really want to go indepth then you should get to work.

if you want me to be specific cause you dont grasp the concept of what an example is then say so.

lets just say that the avg time to throw for a QB was 2.63 seconds.
then there is also a difference between being blitzed and regular pass rush.
also players with good footwork like a rodgers or wilson can move and step up which impact the amount of pressure they face compared to statues like palmer for instance.
then you also have to consider that some QBs have a ridiculous fast release.
someone like brady gets the ball out well below that 2.63 mark which is why he is not getting pressured much, but that does not mean his o-line where all all pro.

Heck you also have to consider the dropback and if its a 3 step , 5 step or 7 step dropback , and if its from under center , pistol or shotgun.

no dude you work has just begone if you want to understand the concept about what i consider as a pressure.

Dont really feel like going indepth because boards are closing tommorow anyways but if you wanna keep going with this nonesense then by all means say so.

I am not the only person who believes Sira can start so i have no idea what makes you think that this is something radical or whatever.
 

billion dollar company cant afford official team forum.

guess we finally have some money to get that high priced receiver in FA.

seriously wonder who where those geniuses who made this decision.

usually companies cherish/reward those who are loyal , rather then tell them to piss off and find somewhere else cause they aint worth the cost.

17 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Just popping in to say there's not really a correlation between passing scheme and blocking scheme in terms of man vs zone. Coryell can work with zone as it did with Cam in 2011 (when we actually started the wide zone) and west coast can work with power as seen by the Jim Harbaugh era 49ers and the Patriots. The difference between Coryell and west coast is more so with the splits and footwork. You'll see deeper, vertical sets with longer/larger linemen in the coryell and you'll see more horizontal, aggressive, short sets with more mobile/compact linemen in the west coast.

Also don't waste your time with Jazz. Rarely knows anything at all.

ill take your word as the residential o-line guru for it lol

3 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

pats didnt tag butler - he was tendered because he was a restricted free agent because he'd been an undrafted guy

true my bad.

does not change much though.

they can tag and trade him next season or work on a new deal .

his health will pretty much decide what they will do and what his price will be.

1 hour ago, arnie_uk said:

30 percent of his passes under pressure would probably be some kind of nfl record.

The average pass rusher applies pressure less than  10 percent of the time according to a website that evaluated tim Williams and his riduclous pressure rate

good thing there are not the only one rushing the passer on any given play?

not sure how credible profootballfocus is but according to them kessler when he played was pressured almost 50 % of the time.

1 hour ago, jazz1988 said:

 

You just compared three seasons of when The Ravens run game was good to one season where the run game wasn't good. Look at 2013 season where Flacco passed the ball  618 times  and if you consider the offensive line and more for Joe Flacco woes then I don't understand why consistent offensive coordinator changes and the fact that two coaches had to get on board  run  a offensive system that wasn't their own and more isn't even being consider as  one legit reasons why the offense has been poor for the past two years..Are you really blaming The Ravens playoff woes because they changed  their offensive scheme to  a west coast offense? I have to totally disagree with that if you do because there's alot of stuff that has occurred in the past two years for the reason why The Ravens have missed the playoffs and I don't think the  west coast offense has been the main culprit of that . Even with Gary Kubiak The Ravens almost nearly missed the playoffs if they had not won against The Browns and The Chiefs had not won against The Chargers. Actually Juan Castillo wasn't the first offensive line coach with a west coast offense back ground because former Ravens offensive line coach John Matsko beats him out in that department. Matsko was apart of The Ravens coaching staff back when Brian Billick was The Raven head coach. I will admit that Matsko does have  experience in the corydell and west coast offense  but even Andy Moeller had a west coast offense background especially back in the day under Terry Malone when he was apart of  Michigan coaching staff.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it really matters  if a offensive line coach has  a west coast or corydell background because  there isn't a real  specific blocking scheme for either one. The corydell offense probably emphasis more on the offensive line to be skilled in pass protection though especially since the quarterback would be throwing it deep more times than not. 

i compared the 3 season you mentioned to last season which you mentioned as well.

Croyell  is more based on power running.
West Coast is more based on zone blocking.
Hope this awnser your question and if not just use whatever reason you had to bring up zorn back ground cause it should matter even less what back ground a QB coach has.

Castillo experience with zone blocking and the west coast offense is far superior then that of moeller.
Makes sense i guess that he was brought in to replace Moeller in 2013 since the team planned to go that route.
Castillo was actually installing this during the season and even promised things would improve after the bye.

it was highly reported and discussed pretty heavily on the boards during and after the season.

not sure why you are pretending like this is new to you.

 

5 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

Have you seen this O-line class? Or are you just looking at a 4th round label? Do you even know anything about our guy? How can you have confidence in a guy you know nothing about? The guy is potentially moving to Center even though he hasn't played it. Gino was a 4th rounder and had a year to study behind Birk. Sorry if I don't just buy into hype that he can handle that.

A drop depends on whether the QB placed the ball in a good position. If the WR has to flip around and do acrobats to even get a hand on the ball, I will be a heck of a lot more forgiving as opposed to a guy just sitting there and having it bounce off his chest.

And dude, the same thing applies to missed tackles. If a defender is getting flushed out of a play because the NT is not doing their job and a guard is getting a free run at the safety and the safety is just able to get out of that block and can't square up on a RB who is already running at top speed, well most times that is going to be a missed tackle. You have to evaluate everything is going on in the game as opposed to zeroing in on someone with the purpose to criticize.

You can draft a guy in round 1 and he sucks while you draft a guy in round 6 that becomes 1 of the best players in the game.

The draft is a lottery.

Sira can be a guy who can be as bust like gino , or he can be decend like lewis was last season  or become a stud like wagner or heck maybe he is even the next yanda.

Only way to find that out is to have confidence in the guy and let him proof you right or wrong.

Who says that if we drafted a guy higher that he would be better?
Who says if we bring in dunlap or mangold that they have enough left to be an upgrade?
Who says if we trade for thomas that he wont injure himself before TC?

You cant predict the future so rather then burning these young fellas to the ground before even a freaking week has past , how about you put some confidence in the fella and see how he does in TC.

If he is good then no issues.
If he sucks and there is no back up plan then shame on the FO.

If Flacco gets good protection and his footwork still sucks then i will criticize him.
If he is under pressure all the time then i will give him a pass.

If the o-line is 2013 bad then he gets a pass.
if the o-line is like 2014 i expect him to show proper footwork in the pocket.

in others words as an example i will evaluate the protection of the o-line first and then based on that i will look at the footwork of the QB when attempting to make a pass.

but on 1 thing i will evaluate the other.

at no point have i said that i will look at flacco footwork only and ignore everything else.
 

so drop the zeroing with purpose to criticize BS please

let me even be more specific.

if flacco drops back to pass 10  times and:
he is under pressure lets say half of the time or more , im not going to bash the fella for his footwork.
but if he is under pressure only about 3 times or less , i will expect him to show good footwork the times he has no pressure.

PS there seems to be quite a few people that have confidence in Sira when reading his welcome thread.

1 hour ago, flynismo said:

Actually we agree on a good bit, but agreeing is boring LOL

true true hahahah

2 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

 

Marty M runs his own version of the west coast offense as well  and it's not your typical traditional west coast offense.Joe Flacco had one of his best seasons under Gary Kubiak and his  adjusted yards gained per pass  attempt that year was 7.2 yards.  and his yards per gain per completion was 11.6 yards. Last year Joe Flacco adjusted yards  per pas attempt was 1.0  yard less and his yards per gain per completion was 1.7 yard less than what  he  had in 2014.I think you have take in consideration that Marc Trestman was bought in here from  day one to   run Gary Kubiak offense who has never been apart of  Kubiak's  coaching staff or run anything similar . Not only that but even Ravens  current offensive coordinator Marty M  who was The Ravens primary quarterback coach back then had to adjust to a offensive system that was  not his own  along with adjusting  to Marc Trestman who he has never worked with before in his career. So imagine how that's like when both these guys are in Joe Flacco ear after losing  o Gary  Kubiak and Rick Dennison in short amount of time. The Ravens offense had no structure or direction for the past two years and if Kubiak taught The Ravens anything it's that you can't build a good offense with out  a coaching staff/position  coaches that aren't familiar with the system or fit the philosophy of the offense or defensive system.

 

The Ravens offense in 2014 would not have went so smoothly if Kubiak wasn't allowed to bring in his own guys. Joe Flacco playoff run was quite amazing and it may be the best performance he will ever have but that doesn't mean shorter passes weren't thrown either. One of the main reasons why The Ravens offense exploded in 2012 under Jim Caldwell was because he bought balance to the offense and called plays normally Cam Cameron wouldn't do on a consistent basis. For the past two years I don't think The Ravens running game has been preforming well so if the running game isn't efficient or atleast a concern towards opposing defenses then how is Flacco going to be able to throw it deep ? Everyone knows he has  a big arm so  a safety can stay in deep coverage all day because Flacco big arm is not a  secret especially with no rushing attack to be concerned about. I think The Ravens 2013 season can speak volumes of that  as well and The Ravens were running a  air corydell offense back then .

last year he attempted 118 more passes and completed 92 more passes then he did under kubiak.
he attempted 141 more passes and completed 119 more passes then he did in 2012.
attempted 183 more passes and completed 130 more passes then he did 2010.

so 1.0 yard and 1.7 yard less is a significant downgrade.

Also you know what else speaks volumes: 
Croyell : 5 play off appearences couple of championship games 1 SB title , missed the play offs 1 time

Westcoast: 1 play off season , 2 times not making the play offs and the franchise QB landing on IR.

I would expected only guys like wisdom and rayray to actively be in favor of the west coast offense quite frankly....

Ow btw you might wanna look up why Marty version of the west coast goes by ``Marty Ball``.

Also another thing that speaks volumes.

2013 was the first season we went with a different run game coordinator/o-line coach.
His name was Castillo who is from the Any Reid coaching who runs............ the West coast offense.

So the first season our run game went to hell is also the first season we had an o-line coach with a west coast back ground.
The other 2 seasons where our run game was nowhere to be found was also the same seasons we had the same guy with the same background in charge of the o-line.

the only season in between when we had succes running the ball was when we brought in kubiak who came with his own scheme and staff.


 

3 hours ago, flynismo said:

Abso. Freakin. Lootly.

I don't give a rat's rear what the stat sheets say, Flacco is at his best when he is throwing intermediate and deep passes all game long.

we sure butt hell agree on that lol.

might mean judgement day is around the corner hahahhaa

bills could always tag watkins if he manages to stay healthy.

they could already be discussing an extension at a lesser price instead of waiting till he has a healthy season and his price going up.

they could also do what the pats did with butler by tagging him and have him look for a team that is willing to trade for him and sign him to what he is looking for.

picking up his option guarantees his contract for next season.
tagging only becomes guaranteed when he signs it which should buy both sides more time to figure things out.

deadline for signing the tag is somewhere in april i think
 

Just now, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

10.8 per attempt is ABSURD. Wow.

Ive never seen that before. Thats literally insane. Thats more than a 1st down every ATTEMPT. Balls leaves his hand - 1st down.

 

Man, i forget sometimes just how amazing he was on that run.

to clarify im talking about adjusted yards gained per attempt.

even still its freaking absurd lol.

think only montana 1989 play off run was better

im wondering how good his footwork is.

as a former soccer player he should be pretty nimble moving around.

id wait for cuts to me made.

if we go for a trade i want Joe Thomas to play RT if possible

4 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

 One of Joe Flacco's best seasons  was in a west coast offense and the other one was under the tutelage of a   quarterback coach with a west coast offense  background by name of Jim Zorn. Even during Joe Flacco excellent performance in 2012 playoff and super bowl  one of the reasons why the offense played so well was not only because it seem like Jim Caldwell  gave Joe Flacco more freedom to what he please but receivers were running more shorter routes and etc that may be considered west coast offense related.  I think alot of people think since Joe Flacco has a  big arm it just automatically mean he's more of a better fit for Corydell offense but I don't think that's the case at all.  Of course  he's not a  dink and dunk type of guy but I don't think at all he can't be successful in a west coast offense especially in Mary M type of west coast offense.

 

 

flacco best seasons came when he was pushing the ball downfield.

just look at adjusted yards gained per pass attempt and yards gained per completion for every season and compare them to how he did the past 2 seasons in the traditional west coast. ( kubiak runs his own version)

i urge you to pay a lot of attention to that 10.8 yards gained per pass attempt in the 2012 play offs.

its a highly ridiculous number tbh.

there is no way you get that by throwing short passes.

12 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Call me crazy, but I actually am starting to miss Cam Cameron. This offense has been even worse since he left, save for 2014 when Kubiak was here. At least when Cameron abandoned the run game, he still had the good sense to utilize his QBs obvious gifts. Abandoning the run AND trying to turn Flacco in Captain Checkdown...well...it's no wonder why this offense struggles so much.

nothing crazy about this at all.

Flacco fits the coryell offense more then the west coast and the players we have at the moment fit that offense more.

norv turner is teamless i think 

7 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Luckily for us, that has been our scheme ever since jimmy stepped up. Isolate jimmy and clutter everything away from him, tighten up windows and give safety help. Along with the occasional safety blitz/zone blitz/fire blitz

pretty much.

not sure why people think this is something new.

Reed played single high alot after moving to FS for us covering the deep ball even with poor corners.

1 hour ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Ah. I knew you would bring this up..... Tavon is the exception to this rule.. Not the norm. Tavon had arguably the best rookie season for ALL CBs last year. Inclusive of Ramsey who really came on towards the end.

 

Oh. Other CBs drafted in the fourth round last year. 

 

NYJ- Justin Burris(Who?)

KC-Eric Murray 

TB-Ryan Smith

SF-Rashard Robinson(who was solid. But Tavon is better)

 

Wait, so you mean to tell me that only one of the four was an above average player? Sorry. I love me some Siragusa. But we have two proven commodities on the oline. That scares the hell out of me not just for Flacco, but for the running game. "But it's a passing league. Flacco should be able to get it done without a running game". Sorry. That line scares the hell out of me moreso than the weapons possibly could. Not only might Flacco get pressured to all hell, but we might not be able to get yards to begin with.

 

And no. Under normal circumstances I would not want us to start a fourth round CB. Hell, I was a fan of the Tavon pick and yet I remained skeptical, and he proved me wrong. 

Id take a pylon/tackling dummy over wright.

in regards to the o-line.
He might get pressured and he might not get pressured.
If he gets pressured because of a bad o-line i already blame ozzie and the coaches like i said.
if he does not get pressured and he still has the same shitty footwork throwing off his back foot then i will blame him

what of this dont you guys understand?

pressure and bad footwork is not his fault.
no pressure and bad footwork i will blame him.

10 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

Dude, you aren't confident in the offense at all, you are just setting the framework so you can complain about Flacco the second things go wrong. It is pretty obvious and is the whole reason I have been calling you out.

And you really are bad at reading, this is 3 times now where I am saying judging each play individually as opposed to taking a game or season into account is stupid. It is called sample size, it is a pretty basic thing to know. If a guy is getting pressured all the time, I would expect them to hurry things up with the expectation of being pressured. Even if he isn't, if the line is doing bad enough that the expectation of being pressured is there, then that is a problem with the line. Kinda funny how with Kubiak he had a good line right? Kinda funny how in 2012 when he had the best line he has ever had for those 4 games he went on that great run? And now that the line has regressed since Kubiak left, funny how Flacco has regressed as well? Maybe because Flacco actually trusted those lines to give him time and doesn't with the lines the past couple years. Maybe because those were good lines and having to deal with the lines of 2013 and the injured mess that was 2015(which was far more injured than the defense but of course you were blaming the offense for everything even though they were all injured) messed up his mechanics? But no, I am sure those were great lines and Flacco ended up injured both those years by tripping over his own feet. 

And here comes the contract talk. I get that but at the same time if you expect him to perform like Rodgers then you haven't been paying attention. We pay him what we pay because we have no other option if we want to stay competitive. Maybe you want organized chaos back but we only won 1 super bowl with it and it was an all time great defense that certainly hasn't been here for years. We aren't getting rid of Flacco and the contract ain't changing so either get used to it or pop in some highlights from 2006 and watch us struggle with Boller or old McNair in the playoffs. 

As for the line, We have 3 positions filled. The others are question marks. Would you be fine with a 4th round rookie starting at CB? No, you'd be crying about how little help the defense has as per usual. You probably still will find ways to cry about that this year. No different at Guard but they are offense so I guess that is fine since it doesn't fit your narrative. And that 4th round rookie may be changing positions and may be raw so again, counting on a lot for him to actually perform well this year. If all these picks and FA signings this year were on offense, you'd be crying about how little help the defense got too which is what I find funny and what I have been calling you out on this whole time. You are no better than the people you are going after so much. But lets break down that 2014 defense at this point in the offseason just so you can realize just how hypocritical you are being.

We had a freaking stud in Ngata, we had a good starter in Canty. Sizzle, Doom, McPhee were deadly, Upshaw was good against the run. We had CJ and Daryl Smith. We had a first round pick in Elam, a good FA in Kendrick Lewis. Jimmy and Webb with a 5th round pick in Chykie Brown who had time to develop and another one in Asa Jackson. That is 4 CBs for 3 spots right? Honestly that might be a better group than this offense as it has a really good front 7. Of course we learned that CB was a mess with injuries and players not developing but that is just as likely to happen with the O-line this year is my point and people being concerned about it aren't "not giving the young guys a chance", they are looking at what we have and seeing a fairly high risk in the group doing bad. And you haven't even tried to hype up the receivers yet haha. But lets break down that O-line:

Stanley is good but already missed time last year, Yanda is getting older and we had good play from LT and RG in 2013. LG,C, and RT were just terrible that year. So it is very possible those guys stay healthy and Jensen/Urschel become the next Chykie Brown or Asa Jackson and that our rookies aren't ready for the big time yet(I mean San Diego State to the NFL is a big jump and our other guy was more of a developmental pick). Heck maybe Lewis regresses and does poorly at RT. That isn't even taking injury into account.

Yes i would be fine with starting a 4th round rookie at CB.
was actually advocating that just last freaking season....

does the name tavon young ring any bells?

wanted him to start over wright and powers.
want him to start over carr this season and until humphrey shows he is better.
want him then to become the starting nickle corner.

Also calling me out?

Same people that complain when a defender misses a tackle or when a receiver drops a pass  are making excuses when the QB displays bad footwork when he gets good pass protection.

catching ,tackling are just as fundamental to their position as is proper footwork for the QB.

So who is actually unfair and showing bias when complaining about the former 2 and make excuses for the latter?

4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Is it considered a bold prediction to say Tim Williams will have a better rookie year than Myles Garrett?

not really.

he is on a better team with better players so he should be able to be in the position to make more plays.

id could see garrett facing double teams a lot more then williams and with their secondary he might not even have enough time to get close to the QB lol

1 minute ago, Sami84 said:

no way..

 

Adalius Thomas was 25 pounds heavier for a start..

so Thomas could not cover nor rush the passer because he was to heavy?

2 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

If it is one play out of many where he is getting pressured then I will blame the O-line for being bad enough that the QB can't trust them on a consistent basis. It depends on the situation. I just broke down how stuff like that works if you would care to go back and read the post. 

If you are too lazy to actually read(something you seemed quick to accuse me of not doing in the past) and just want to argue then I won't waste more time with you. I guess that is probably the wise decision here given that you would defend certain people for a making a bad call due to the supporting cast but can't defend a bad play due to a bad supporting cast. I mean I always thought you were a bit biased but having it confirmed like this is disappointing nonetheless. 

a bad play?

flacco has been throwing off his back foot since he was drafted.

with zorn and later kubiak it seemed he got rid off it and worked on his footwork but as soon as they left he was back to doing this crap.

not throwing off your back foot is a fundamental for any QB.
for the amount of money and cap space he is taking up , it should be a no brainer for him to work on getting the basics of being a QB down.

i already said i wont blame him if is he is under pressure within a second of snapping the ball because the o-line sucks but if their is no pressure then as a professional franchise QB he should at least show proper fundamentals when attempting a pass.

as for the o-line itself.
FO just drafted 2 starters last season with 1 being a stud LT.
FO already kept the best and HOF worthy o-liners in baltimore.
FO just drafted a G in the 4th round who should be capable of starting.
That is 4 out of 5 positions filled already with 2 being manned by 2 of the best at their position.
Then their are 3 guys with starting experience on the roster to fill the last spot and there are 2 promising players the coaching staff is high on.
There is also a new o-line coach as well who could  get more out of these guys.

And if we need to their is still FA and later in the year teams will have to make cuts and who knows a guy like sitton comes available again.

Its really sad you are already throwing these young guys under the buss and acting like they will be 2013 bad before TC even started.

i dont see the skyfalling with the o-line at this moment.
if stanley and/or yanda gets injured then it would be time to really panick.

9 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

McPhee was an excellent rusher and not much of a coverage guy, and putting Judon in the upshaw role is really selling short his pass rush ability which is probably his best asset. They're similar in that they play with strong heavy hands and get physical, but Judon has much better first step, closing speed, and bend. 

If we wanna use past ravens, I'd say bowser is a Jamie sharper role, Judon is waiting to step in for Suggs as the guy who brings a smart and physical approach to the pass rush while being an A1 run defender, Tim Williams I'd say you're correct that he's a doom/boulware role bringing an outside speed rush from LB and DE. 

A.Thomas probably a good comp as well for bowser.