Tru11

you brought up the numbers not me. you said chiefs only saw 529 pass attempts against them.( i did not come up with this number) this means houston only had 529 snaps to get 22 sacks IF he played all the snaps. these numbers give him an avg of 1 sack per 24 attempts. simple math. its a fact dumervil had 17 sacks. in order for dumervil to present a better avg he would had to have gotten those sacks in only 391 attempts which would have given him 1 sack per 23 attempts. you yourself said dumervil played 608 snaps. you yourself said dumervil was a role player as a pass rush specialist. now ask yourself how probable it is that out 608 snaps only 391 where to rush a passer. its your numbers with your method from your first reply in this thread that pretty much shows that houston is the better pass rusher. i used the numbers you provided with the method you used. i did not make anything up. you are free to stick with your believe even though you pretty proved its wrong yourself with the numbers you provided and the method you used at first lol. bolded part says enough about you though so im done wasting my time.

you do realise houston % is higher right? so how can you argue doom is better? you also conveniently left out houston cause 2 times as many fumbles as doom? chiefs as a team only saw 529 pass attempts against them which means IF he played all of those snaps he managed to get a sack in every 24 pass attempts on avg ravens like you said saw 584 pass attempts and doom played 603 snaps. in order for doom to present a better avg then houston he would had to get his 17 sacks on 391 pass attempts. now you and everyone should know that doom did not play only 391 of a possible 584 attempts. so this pretty much settles who is the better pass rusher and better player is not even a debate. an all round every down player who is an all pro is better then a role player. both where pro bowlers...

there was at most 1 second between the catch and the ball getting knocked out. game clock does not lie since it shows 24 seconds left at the time of the catch and still when it got knocked out. i doubt less then a second is plenty of time to catch and secure a pass while turning around after running at full speed with 2 defenders closing in on you. to each their own. some rather blame the player for not being able to do something pretty unreasonable while others are not afraid to admit the defender actually made 1 heck of a play at the right time.

Houston is being asked to set the edge and stop the run first to lol. He does not get subbed out for somebody else. If upshaw was not on the team then Doom would have gotten those edge setting snaps and thus his snap count would have been way higher then it is now and thus his avg would have been much lower. also the chiefs gave up the #2 least passing yards behind only he hawks but gave up the #28 most rush yards which completely debunk your theory that houston had more chances to rush the passer. the ravens however had the #4th best rush defense but when it came to pass defense they where ranked #23. the team that saw more pass rush snaps would easily be the ravens. what you are doing is counting houston edge setting snaps and drop in coverage snaps as pass rush snaps which is just wrong. Doom portion of snaps he played the run is probably around 10 % of his total snap count while him dropping in coverage would be less then 1%. Houston portion of snaps he played the run is at least 40 % of his total snap count and is probably higher and his snap count dropping in coverage is probably around 10 % of his total snap count. So for doom you could argue he spend at least 90% of his snaps rushing the passer while for houston its probably closer to 50% of his snaps. the difference in % simply has to do with 1 being a part time pass rush specialist while the other is a every down player. Also im pretty sure teams win games not individual players. by your logic elam is better then eric berry because elam wins more plays lol or forsett is better then charles because he wins more games. heck why not take canty or jernigan over watt since they won more games. why not take aiken over julio jones while we are at it ....

i think if he had enough time to line up his shot he probaly could have made it. in this situation he hurried everything which screwed with his fundamentals and lead to the miss. exposed in front of his body? this was roughly 1 second after the catch and tenths of seconds before it gets knocked out. seems to me he is in the process of tucking it like he was taught and not being careless like you are trying to make it out to be.

he had 1 arm around it lol he was in the proces of securing it even further. you do realise the catch and knock out happend in less then 3 seconds right? also you totally gonna ignore the CB making the play of his life? who cundiff?

evans actually had the ball tucked to his body with what appears to be 2 hands on it. https://youtu.be/yIH-GrnnPVM if you go to the 30 second mark you will have the best view of this catch. @ the 32 second mark it appears the ball is against his body with 2 hands on it tucked away. seems pretty fundamental to me. also like i said before you seem to forget the defender also made a fundamental sounds play by managing to actually hit the ball and not the player which forced it to come out. had he hit the arm of chest chances are the ball would not come out. the best way to get a ball to come loose is to hit the ball and not the player. just as charles tillman who made a living with making these kinds of plays having 42 FF as CB lol TBH this is more of a case of the defender making 1 hell of a play rather then the receiver being careless with the ball. Worst play by far in that game was the rushed missed FG that came later with 15 seconds left and us still having a TO. i still cant believe why we did not use the TO and instead rushed cundiff out there and rush the kick. with the clock winding down just call the TO and make sure to get it right. What where they planning to do with that TO and 15 seconds left lol

you are still going to blame him for losing games we actually won seriously you have taking exaggerating to a whole new level.

those numbers are inaccurate since you are comparing a starter to part time player. if you want to know who is better you should also take into consideration upshaw snap count. its pretty reasonable to assume that not all of houstons 1033 snaps where spend rushing the passer. a pretty fair amount he was probably stopping the run or dropping in coverage which most complete OLB do. example suggs. houston 1033 snaps with 22 sacks is a sack every 46.9 plays doom/upshaw combo 1124 snaps with 17 sacks is a sack every 66.1 plays. now if you want to truly know who is a better pass rusher on avg you will have to find the stats of how many both spend rushing the passer. PFF probaly has those i think.

houston is a complete olb in the prime of his career while Doom is pretty much a pass rush specialist. also if i remember correctly the broncos still owned Doom some money at the time we signed him which kept his price tag down. then their is the age difference as well. i dont think you can compare them at all and then suggest Doom was a bargain. Perriman can be an elite WR but he needs to work on his hands, route running and most important his concentration. he has all the tools to become 1.

well wasent lee evans pretty much injured that 1 season with us? he only started 2 games. also the defender made 1 hell of a play knocking the ball out of evans hands on the catch. think alot of people are over looking that TBH. sterling moore certainly deserves some credit of breaking up that TD with a tremendous play. on the ball.

probably not a first ballot but he could get in. he started as a pass rusher only but became a all round OLB which lead to his DPOY. he has several pro bowls and some all pro selections and he is a SB winner. if he stays injury these coming 2 seasons and plays up to his level , he should get some more pro bowls or perhaps maybe add another SB to his resume depending on how the teams plays.

he is saying that if flacco was on that team playing with those receivers in that scheme he would put up better stats. better then 4952 yards 32 TDs and just 9 INT. ben is just some old sluggish QB who got carried by his receivers. for the record calling a player old and sluggish is not a compliment. he is totally downplaying Ben level of talent as a QB because alot of people think he is better then flacco at this moment. its the typical ravens fan argument that if a QB puts up stats its because of his receivers/scheme/whatever . but if flacco puts up stats its because he is great despite his receivers/scheme/whatever. Its really no shame to admit ben is better at this point in their careers. Ben is older.more experienced, at the peak of his game, had the luxury of having the same OC and 2 of his top 3 targets have grown with him. Flacco is younger, still improving , no idea where his peak is and with some luck will have the same OC and receivers to grow with. In 1 or 2 seasons chances are he will be surpass ben as the best QB in the division and if brady and manning retire probably in conversation for being the best QB in the conference.

talent level of a QB has everything to do with it. how good the QB is will pretty much decide how much production he will get out of the receiving core. that is a fact. if this was not the case then there would not have been a drop off from the starting QB to the back up. both have the same quality/number of capable receivers but 1 is clearly better then the other and thus 1 will put up better stats then the other. your argument pretty much suggest that schaub would produce just as good as flacco since both have the same quality of receivers as the talent level of the QB plays no part when it comes to stats. suggesting every QB throws the same is just ludicrous.

maybe flacco cant make wrs better so he needs top notch talent lol. im with you that i cant stand those arguments either. worst argument is by far : win are a QBs achievement and losses are because of the team or someone else on the team.....

lmao that stretching it quite a bit. we won 1 bengals game in his rookie season so how you can blame him for a loss is pretty weird.... the other bengals game it was tied going into the 4th and then the offense threw 3 INT on 4 possessions with 1 going for a pick 6. how cab you pin that 1 on elam or even the defense lol. that pats game is also a huge stretch cause when elam made a mistake it became a tied game in the 2nd quarter. we when into HT with a 7 point lead so its hard to argue elam destroyed our team confidence orso... we even went up 2 TDs before everything fell apart and its ridiculous to blame elam for the 2nd half collapse while flacco threw 2 picks, brady picked on melvin and the refs botched that abuse of the in eligible substitution stuff. that trick play or that lafell TD had far bigger impacts not to mention that whole drive that the pats abused that now banned rule lol. heck if we got a FG instead flacco throwing a pick we would only need a FG to win the game and that 2nd pick probably would not have happened. you got to come with way better examples then these lmao

nobody is denying elam had bad plays. thats not the discussion. sami said elam single handedly cost us at least half a dozen games and i want to know which 6 or more games elam cost us. i cant think of 1 but feel free to pinch in and point me to the games in question.

his best stats last season where by far those 11 TDs. thats 40% of flacco TDs right there lol That was good for a shared #10 spot among all receivers including TE and such. There where only 9 receivers who caught more TD then him and the difference with 8 of them was no more then 2 TD. the next best person on the ravens was steve smith who had 6 TD. BTW those 11 TDs are the #2 best mark in ravens history only behind michael jacksons 14 TD season which was in our first season in baltimore.

what games did he single handedly cost us?

you are the one who brought it up. now dont back down and turn it around saying that is not the point. hurns started 8 out of 16 games brown started 5 out of 16 games cooper started 16 out of 16 games stills started 7 games out of 15 games wheaton started 11 games out of 16 games. wes welker started 8 out of of 14 games. cothery started 13 out of 15 games. plenty of none starters yeah right lol non starter means 0 starts. lets take brown since you mentioned him at he has the least starts. he had 48 rec for 696 yards and 5 TD with 14.5 avg on a whopping 102 targets. thats with him starting 5 games. now you wanna tell me that perriman is going to put up better stats starting 0 games? Let me remind you that my point was he has to become a starter, your point was he does not have to be a starter to put up numbers. now show me a player who did not start a single game who produced big. For the record: i was talking about a non starter on the ravens TBH since that is the team in question and its where Perriman will have to show he can do it without starting. edit: also to the bolded part in red. i suggest you read my very first reply to you and then specifically the 3rd sentence. its the #37 reply.

yeah i dont know who he is talking about when it comes to non starters putting up huge stats. even so i dont see how a non starter on the ravens can put up those stats. we dont have a history of that happening at all and i doubt trestman is going to change that.

if its not unrealistic or impossible im pretty sure you have a nice list of players who managed to get 3 catches per game for 9 weeks straight avg 30 yards per catch. also im not sure about that list you posted cause when i click it i see alot of starters on it and alot of players who arent a WR. heck from the 41 players with more then 841 yards all where starters or at least started a few games which pretty much proves it cant be done with out starting at some point. the only way he will outproduce torrey as a back up is if torrey gets injured or torrey gets demoted/suspended or anything like that lol non starting WRs on the ravens rarely had any significant production so i have a hard time believing this year will be the first time that will change.

in order to do what you say he would have to avg over 30 yards per catch for 9 straight weeks catching at least 3 balls. thats highly unrealistic and you are free to show it has been done before lol if he avg 3 catches per game for 16 weeks he would have to avg about 17.7 yards per catch which would be among the league best. now this could be done but he has to be a starter or he would never see the targets to make this realistic. 3 catches per game for 16 weeks = 48 catches on the season. when is the last time a non starter @ wr caught that many passes? heck he would be lucky to see that many targets let alone have a 100% catch ratio...

hahahah man that play was awesome. to bad flacco stumbled. would have been an epic TD and probaly some record with a QB catching a TD lol

he has to start if he wants to come close to the numbers torrey had in his rookie season. torrey had 50 rec 841 yards and 7 TD in his rookie season starting 14 games. i doubt perriman can come close to these numbers is he doesn't become a starter at some point. back up WRs simply wont see that many targets unless we plan to go over pass happy this season lol. Also torrey is going to be a starter with the niners so he will see alot more targets and thus has a far bigger chance to produce more then perriman this season.