-Truth-

4 hours ago, The Raven said:

Follow up question: Why close the board if it wasn't a financial decision? I can understand closing a slowing board if the financials were a burden, but if it wasn't a financial decision, why do it at all?

Further, if the issue is human capital, shouldn't there be less time/effort spent if engagement is declining?

Are mods not volunteers? I don't want to minimize what they do by any means, but it is volunteer work that they choose to do.

Frankly, I don't see how much thought went into this at all. I'm not seeing any good reason to close this.

The first point is spot on. The fact that it wasn't a financial decision makes it far worse. It means that it could be conceivably continued but simply won't be despite the series of pleas otherwise. It's an unreal sentiment to use as as a defense of the decision. To add on, referring solely to percentages can be slightly misleading considering that the figure is relative to what its derived from. Wording the active figure of only about 3% somewhat sidesteps the fact that the figure equals to well over 2,000 members. We weren't exactly being overrun by tumbleweeds. It also does nothing to show the comparison from before since it doesn't reference the peak numbers or any numbers prior. I'm not questioning that there was a decline personally, but the aforementioned points remain.

13 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

To get somewhat back on topic, it's been real guys.  My time on message boards is likely coming to an end this Friday, as I don't immediately plan to join any other site.  I think that time has come to focus more on real life, despite how much I've enjoyed talking football with many of you.  I figured I'd say my "goodbyes" now before Friday so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.  I'll still be around over the next couple of days so feel free to reach out.  A few of you have my personal contact information, and I'd be more than happy to share it with a few others that have meant a great deal over these last 6 years if you'd like to keep in contact.  If one of these new homes starts to develop a following, I may consider a return to the message board world.

I can honestly say I wouldn't know the game of football as well as I do without a large majority of you.  I have always considered myself more knowledgeable than the average football fan that calls into 105.7, but learning from a lot of you really made me realize just how complex this game is.  Learning how to evaluate prospects, read coverages, etc. wouldn't have happened without the insane amount of knowledge that can be found around here (some more than others, obviously).  I sincerely thank you guys as it has really strengthened my love for the game, despite never playing it other than backyard games in the neighborhood.

It's been real, ya'll.  Go Ravens!

I hope you stay in contact. You are one of the most insightful members on this forum, easily among the most fair and objective, and that says a lot considering the great deal of respect that I have for numerous other members. I share your sentiments entirely about the second paragraph.

5 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:

too long for the average member to want to read.  That said.  If you're not sure of the reasoning or believe what the have said is the reasoning, as it doesn't fit your ideas, then you really cannot discount their reasoning. 

4 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Exactly the point @-Truth- is making. The reason is the quest for numbers in a "flavour of the day" form, without any regard to substance.

@allblackraven is right on the money. The expectation of reducing pertinent content in order for the ideas to appeal to the average reader is one of the main issues in the migration. I am sure about the reasoning. Whether or not the assumption of the motive behind it is accurate, my post touched on their stated belief about the evolving landscape. I disagree with this sentiment, therefore I feel that I am able to discount it.

6 hours ago, allblackraven said:

I love you, man!

I love you too, man!

1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

We can agree to disagree on that.  If there were no good reason, then they wouldn't be shutting it down.

 

I will agree that it was a great place to bring Ravens fans together.  The site isn't going away.  Just the forums are.

It is a mistaken notion to automatically presume that the judgment behind the decision is sound simply because the decision was made. It essentially implies that there are no miscalculated decisions, which is obviously far from the truth. The most likely explanation behind the shutdown is that it’s a cost-cutting measure that can now be written off under the guise of an expected natural progression of migrating conversations to the more current and popular social media platforms, i.e. Facebook and Twitter, an unspoken declaration of forums being an outdated means of discussions. If this is the expectation, then we have been woefully misread as a demographic. As a long-standing member on this forum, I can personally attest to the fact that I have zero interest in migrating my sports conversations to the wholly unmoderated platforms that are the physical manifestation of thousands of people standing in a single room and talking at the same time. I certainly can’t speak for everyone, but I would assume that this would be less than ideal for a sizable portion of other seasoned members.

I’m on multiple social media sites, have been and will be. From personal experience, I can tell you that the vast majority of the football discussions that occur in the comments are a barren wasteland of misinformation, uninformed opinions, and arguments which turn into poo-flinging contest and personal insults that immediately stream away from the main topics of discussion. This is mostly because a great deal of sports fans are relatively casual observers, thus the bar set for general insight is significantly lower. Couple that with the lack of repercussions for trolling or steering off-course, and in reality, the aforementioned result no longer comes as a surprise. And ironically enough, although we do debate on other platforms under our real names and profiles, the fact that we are unlikely to see the same faces in other discussions considering the infinitely-deeper pool of participants makes the ordeal less personal in comparison. The entire reason of most members joining forums is because they have a vested interest in the details of the sport that is generally greater than that of a casual observer. It has a sense of community where there are long-term residents, so you can choose whom you gravitate towards and whom you gravitate away from. And there are rules for everyone to abide by that ensure that the overall sense of integrity is protected, that this remains a place for intelligent discussions. That doesn’t mean that you won’t see head-scratching concepts or ill-informed ideas tossed around. But it’s still a far more ideal experience than that of the other platforms. These are the points being missed in the migration. Instead, it's treated that if we like X, we must like Y. What’s being lost on whomever is pulling the plug is that most members will either cease to hold their discussions on the internet, migrate to another forum, or go through a progression from the first to the second. It is of no surprise that other forums were immediately explored once the news broke. And I personally hope to see the familiar faces there.

19 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

DT Grover Stewart: Picked as UDFA here, went 144 in real life = +110

1 minute ago, 52520Andrew said:

I just enjoy posting that gif, it is so much fun. Of course I could do some research and find some of him creaming James Carpenter as well. Plus I gotta rub Aaron Donald in since you stole Jatavis Brown from me last year

lol Fair enough. As long as I get partial credit. You do as well obviously.

1 minute ago, 52520Andrew said:

Here is how much size matters in the NFL. For reference this is 6'5" 343 pounder Cyril Richardson being pancaked by 6'0" 285 pounder Aaron Donald

One of my favorite prospects in that class against one of my most disliked. In an objective world, feeling that strongly about a prospect is likely reserved for a handful players in a class. But given that Richardson had a 3rd round grade before the draft, I couldn't stand his tape. With regards to size and length, I could not agree more that they aren't the be-all and end-all. Arm length can be an issue on the outside for sure, but otherwise, I'd rather an OT have traits like balance and lateral movement.

4 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

This is meant to be a rumour mill. All i see is prospect discussion. Have any rumours been posted the past 8 pages?

Sources close to arnie_uk suggest that he could be upset with the lack of rumor discussions. Confirmation pending.

7 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yea this year its having Carl Lawson going to us at 16 by every one of their contributors basically.

And having Mack Hollins as our 2nd round pick i think. They LOVE Mack Hollins.

They absolutely do. Perhaps Hollins goes in mid-rounds, but their comparison of Mike Wallace raised a few eyebrows, and a 2nd rounder would be a hefty price to pay, especially since Lawson could fall to our 2nd. They're also higher than most on Jordan Willis. That's not to say that any of those three will struggle. Their Ravens mock looks to be the most egregious. I also don't see Leonard Fournette falling to 24, or going to Oakland for that matter.

I'm personally a fan of Mayock, Jeremiah and Cossell. I've been using PFF as a resource for almost a decade, but their draft coverage can be spotty at times. They typically go off the reservation to an extent, so they're a solid go-to when looking up prospects who aren't known or discussed. They earned some credit last year for listing the likes of Cody Whitehair, Michael Thomas, Karl Joseph and Chris Jones as first round talents. Same goes for their skepticism on Darron Lee and the Alabama DT duo. But they do habitually fall victim to judging by the bottom line and overrate prospects based on the results instead of assessing their traits. One of the biggest sins being ranking Rashard Higgins in the Top 40 while somehow assessing Deion Jones to be an undraftable prospect, with the latter being a complete head scratcher.

8 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Matt Miller, Mayock, and DJ are my go tos. All three could honestly be GMs, even if they have their fair share of misses. If I need any advice from a person I know,  I generally look @-Truth-'s way. 

 

I don't trust Kiper or McShay and Walterfootball and Charlie are freaking terrible

Much appreciated.

Definitely a fan of the Price and Brown selections. Brown is significantly underrated in my eyes.

8 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Imo, they would be dumb to pass on OJ for him. I love mike Williams but as great of a run blocker oj Howard is and how great of a security blanket he's been, he would fit that power run offense so beautifully and be a hell of an outlet for mariota. You can have average receivers with a TE and run game of that caliber

They could run more 12 personnel with Howard and Delanie Walker, but the latter has been highly productive for them during his stint in Tennessee and he has two years remaning on his deal. Walker has quietly been one of the better receiving TEs over the past three years, and he's always been an above average blocker. Howard can obviously be his future replacement, and it would make sense for them to nab a TE in such a ridiculous TE class. But perhaps trying their luck for a No.1 WR to bookend Rishard Matthews with Walker in the middle could be the more sensible move.

Just now, JoeKnows said:

So reportedly the Browns are talking to 4 teams in the top 8 with the Titans at 5 being one of them. Titans are reportedly high on Mike Williams and don't have a second round pick. Trade would make sense for both teams. Browns get Trubisky at 5 and Titans get Mike Williams at 12 plus extra picks.

If those aren't smokescreens, that would make sense.

22 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Decent player but tons of off field stuff with Dede.  Some rumors that he could go undrafted because of the issues and how bad his interviews were.

The exact quote that I've seen is, "Westbrook’s interviews here in Indianapolis have been horrible.  Those at the interviews say Westbrook has been guarded and seemed untruthful." Definitely a talented prospect, and it only takes one team to pull the trigger, but couple the interviews with multiple charges against the same woman, and he could very well slip into the middle rounds. Perhaps later. There are a few players now with early round talents whose draft stocks range from the early rounds into the UDFA category.

47 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

"Technically, he's yet to be suspended for his 2013 domestic violence charges."

 

I saw that. He's eligible until he's possibly suspended, but the biggest factor I overlooked is that he's still technically under contract by Arizona. So it looks like I'll have to rescind the signing. Did it on a whim during work hours just in case he was available.

30 minutes ago, ArsenalRaven666 said:

Alleged rape, dialuted samples at the combine all ways to drop your draft value.  What next smoking a bong !?

6 hours ago, rmw10 said:

It wouldn't be a forum mock if I wasn't struck with bad luck.  Gareon Conley accused of rape.  Witnesses saying that the story is false, but hey, that's still my guy 2 days before the draft lol

The worst part is that he's only slated to meet with the police on Monday, meaning that his case may not have a resolution or at least a clear indication until after the draft. He could go anywhere at this point. What an insane turn of events.

6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

His skillset is far superior though. Correa was all burst and motor in college, reddick has some very real bend and lightning quick footwork to keep him clean, along with really long arms and a low center of gravity that he uses both very well to create some solid speed to power rushes. 

And a huge aspect that goes unnoticed here is that correa takes blockers head on and gets stonewalled, reddick doesn't do that, he works one shoulder of the tackle and never allows them to square up and engage cleanly.

Agreed there. I'd expect Redick to bump up somewhat from 237 to say the forties. I personally don't see him as someone who'll be limited to just the passing downs, especially since he'll likely be shifted around between the LB spots and will see time at ILB. And we've seen players lighter than Redick in their Combine weights who've stuck with full-time roles, i.e. C.J. Mosley.

5 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Oh and welcome to the Jahad Thomas bandwagon.

Live in the Philly area and most of my close friends graduated from Temple.... been watching him tear teams up for a couple years; even against some top teams like Clemson, Notre Dame and Penn State. 

Posted about him a month ago in the RB thread. He wont be a 3 down back obviously, because he'll go down with any substantial contact.... but hitting him isnt a given proposition. He possesses great vision and patience.... and then can change direction in the blink of an eye. And hes quicker than he is fast. But he's a tough dude and a willing and capable blocker. Could be a nice 3rd down option with flexibility to move into the slot.

And I trust Temple players. Matt Ruhle built that program with undersized, overlooked prospects and rejects. He runs a very professional organization with emphasis on getting an education so i trust his kids to be clean in the NFL. And he gets those boys hitting day 1 of spring ball. They open almost every practice session with full contact and tackling drills in pads. Very tough guys that love contact, have high character, and are very used to having to overcome physical limitations to stand out. The past 2 years theyve knocked off or taken to the limits some real heavy hitter programs.

6th round, or more likely a priority FA... but id be happy with any of the Temple guys - Reddick, Dawkins, Hairston and Jahad.

 

And fyi, hes at Baylor now. So expect some really high level prospects to start coming out of that school in 3-4 years once hes had a chance to implement his program, and his recruiting classes are coming out in the draft. His ability to identify talent that no one else does and develop has been remarkable. With access to a much bigger pipeline and more naturally gifted athletes -- keep an eye on that program.

Spot on assessment of Thomas. He caught my eye a year or two ago when I was watching a prospect's tape against Temple, and I was impressed by how he sets up moves in the open field. He uses his entire body to misdirect defenders with head fakes included (Link1, Link2). I'm sure you've seen those plays, so I'm throwing them out as examples for others. He has average long-speed and inconsistent leg drive upon contact, but his quick and precise upfield cut and short area quickness soften the issue. If we're giving a shifty RB a look in the 6th round, I hope we also give Tarik Cohen a look, but I certainly wouldn't mind Thomas.

With the process finished for this year, I'd like to say that I was able to reach the accomplishments I set out to achieve. It obviously wasn't difficult considering that I selected one of the most talented teams in the league. That being said, the tweaks and additions should make this roster a playoff contender in this upcoming season and with SuperBowl aspirations. The roster does have a ton of turnover with all of the skill-player starter being new additions, but I assume that Derek Carr wouldn't complain with Keenan Allen and Brandin Cooks at WR, Carlos Hyde in the backfield with DeAndre Washington and Kyle Juszczyk at FB. Adam Thielen excelled as a starter last year and would help fill in if Allen succumbs to another injury, with Chad Hansen splitting the No.3 duties with Evan Engram in that instance, who's arguably the best receiving slot TE in the draft. I could run a multitude of personnel groupings, such as the 12 personnel with both Engram and David Njoku on the field. The OL may be among the best groups in the league with the additions of Larry Warford and Ricky Wagner. There's enough depth in the likes of Nick Mangold and Co. to account for any injuries. Conor McDermott could potentially be groomed to be Donald Penn's future replacement, which will give him time to hit the weight room. It would be interesting to see what Hyde would do behind this front considering that he put forth a solid season behind one of the league's worst units last season. Overall, I feel that it's a balanced group, with enough in the running and passing games to keep teams honest.

Defensively, the front would once again be a formidable one. The passing downs would consist of pairing the reigning DPoY Khalil Mack at LE with Sheldon Richardson at 1T, Frank Clark and David Irving at 3T and Aldon Smith at RE. If Andrew Billings plays to his potential, he could give Dan Williams a shot for his money at NT on running downs. If Williams regulates his weight issues, he'd likely return to form. Mario Edwards Jr. will be moved back to DE, where he excelled before struggling last season at DT. Bruce Irvin could be moved around as the Spinner Sam and brought off the edge for additional pressure. He can handle himself in every facet thus far. Jerrell Freeman was an elite LB last season, one of the best in coverage, and Ramik Wilson had an impressive campaign himself, as one of the better coverage linebackers in 2016. The depth there has questions, and it's my main concern with the roster. At CB, I'd have a four-man competition between Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, David Amerson, Quincy Wilson and Terence Newman. Rodgers-Cromartie and Newman are coming off of lights-out seasons, although it's hard to envision Newman continuing the trend at the same pace given his age. Amerson played like one of the best CBs in the NFL before the knee injury. Wilson, who may very well have been overdrafted based on him potentially going in the 2nd in real life, could offer some long-term value on the outside. K'Waun Williams is a dark horse to enter the discussion. He took the last season off to rehabilitate after a tumultuous exit from Cleveland surrounding his ankle injury, meaning he should be healthy, and he was one of the better slot CBs in the league in his first two seasons. Both Adrian Amos and Karl Joseph were rock solid last season and I'd expect them to continue the trend. The ST unit remains similar to last year albeit the competition at kicker, which is a plus.

Overall, I feel like this could be one of the best offenses and best defenses in the league. The biggest question would be how fast the offense would gel given the new pieces, though it shouldn't be a difficult situation to manage given the talent level of the newcomers. Fortunately most of the rookies wouldn't be thrown into the fire right away. The only position to start rookies is TE, which has been historically difficult to translate. But having two of the top five prospects at TE should help. There aren't many holes on either side. Obviously it can't be judged fully until it stands the test of time during the same time next year. But I do like the unit on paper. Hopefully it'd make some noise in the AFC.

5 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I would be disappointed if we took Cam Robinson but I don't think we will. FWIW, it's not because I think Cam is or will be a bad player; rather, it's because we took a LT high last year and he's certainly not even close to being my favorite OL in the first. I'd rather take Lamp way before Robinson. 

The only issue is that most have Robinson pegged as a guard prospect, so if our FO sees Robinson as a guard, they may be more inclined to take him than if he were projected to remain at LT.

7 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Sorry for the late response. But no... Just no.

 

1. Zachary Orr was far and away the most overrated defensive player on the team last year. I know that everyone here loved him, but as @-Truth- and @BmoreBird22 pointed out, Orr got a ton of those tackles because Mosely ate the blockers and allowed Orr to run free. Orr was a decent ILB, but my god was maybe the most undeserving all pro I've ever seen. If there's on thing that pisses me off more than the Jernigan trade, it's the fans who say that CJ Mosely is "just another guy", and Orr had a better season. Nope. When Orr was thrusted into the #1 ILB spot because of CJ's injury, he struggled mightily. There's no surprise why. CJ made the defense work. He's our biggest asset going forward and there's no question about it. He's gonna be a Raven for life. 

 

2. There is no way in hell we would have gotten anything less than a fourth rounder from Jernigan comp pick wise. Even with his inconsistencies, a player with his talent would easily command $6.5 million on the open market. Which btw, given that our cap situation is significantly better next season, we could have easily afforded to keep him. That obviously wasn't in our plans(which is foolish and I'll explain why in the next point), but the return absolutely SUCKED. If we had traded him outright for that Eagles third rounder and not given up our own pick, you would hear 0 complaints from me and I'm a huge Jernigan fan. In my eyes, that'd be a solid trade.

 

3. Sorry. But we picked the wrong guy. Timmy Jernigan was an inconsistent pass rusher, but was a consistently excellent run defender who fit the defense well and was young. I'd rather have a guy who is very inconsistent as a pass rusher like Jernigan, but when he's hot he turns it on, then a guy who only plays 80% of the snaps. Given that the nfl has evolved into more of a passing league, Jernigan's ability to play three downs makes him, at least in my eyes, a more valuable commodity. I know he flat out dissapeared at times, but it's not like he was getting any help either. If we had more of a pass rush, I think we would have seen more pressures and sacks from the man. He's not an all pro, he's not even a pro bowler. But finding a defensive lineman who can rush the passer at a decent level is harder than most people think. And we just traded away our proven/best guy. For pennies on the dollar. 

 

4. Finally, the returns are idiotic. Timmy Jernigan playing next to two very good pass rusher is probably gonna have a season where he gets 6-8, possibly 10 sacks. The Eagles would probably be inclined to sign him again afterwards, for a sizeable contract but one that'd be well deserved, and they suddenly have one of the better defensive tackle tandems in the league, and they basically gave up nothing to get him. I don't give a damn if he is inconsistent, trading up 20 spots and giving away your best pass rusher, even if he is a locker room problem, is a HORRIBLE return. It literally makes no sense from a logical standpoint. The Eagles paid pennies for a dude who as a total package is an above average player, and they move down and still get to keep a pick in the round. I can personally guarentee you that Timmy, especially as a proven commodity thus far, is going to be better than at least 90% of the players drafted in the third round this year. 

 

I could go on and on about why this trade was totally and utterly idiotic, but honestly, it's post 4/20 in the state of Colorado. I'm going to bed lol

I'm on board with most points, especially one, two and four. 

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I can confirm he wasn't in when I picked him up.  I double and triple checked because I knew I was adding him retroactively. Wasn't planning on adding anyone else but when you see a guy saying he could go 3rd round, you take a chance. 

Good to hear. That gives me relief. Absolutely with regards on the latter. I feel like Mt. Crushmore, who'd sneak in after the real-life draft and quickly sign all of the players that were drafted. #ShotsFired