Ravensfan23

27 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

I think top to bottom here is CJ, Wagner/Williams(tie), and a distant fourth is Jernigan. I may be in the minority here, but for me Timmy is expendable. He's very streaky, sometimes disappearing for entire games, and often doesn't play very smart. Doesn't mean he couldn't turn out to be a monster, but his present value seems much, much lower than the other three. 

I could agree with that. But Timmy is the exact guy we'd allow to walk because the market would overpay for him. Art Jones comes to mind. I actually think Timmy can and will turn into a monster, but i do agree that his value right now is lower than the others.

17 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

I have to agree.Timmy J is a good player  but is too inconsistent and I'm starting to think he may not be capable of being a every down player.

I think he's capable of being a every down player and a really good one. But the inconsistency factor is an big deal and as a FSU fan it's not surprising to me. Timmy could be as great as he wants to be if he improves his conditioning imo. 

18 minutes ago, The Raven said:

I'd rather lockup CJ and Timmy than Wagner and Williams. Their skill sets are better suited to our team's identity.

I'd rather lock them all up lol. But if it came down to overpaying someone to stay, it'd be CJ for me. But guys like Wagner, Williams and Timmy are those borderline Pro Bowl players who could easily be among the best of their position if they hit their prime full speed.

If we can keep all 4 of those guys and they stay healthy, it'll go a long way to getting this team back to being a perennial Super Bowl contender. I think all those guys fit what the Ravens are about, both on the field and out in the community. What all of them on the field and they fit "Play Like a Raven" imo. 

2 hours ago, gtalk12 said:

I'd be willing to part ways with Williams if it meant bring in the safety from Arizona.

Everyone is talking about how deep and strong this draft class is at CB and S. I think the Ravens are more likely to save that big money if they can't sign Williams and stick with Webb at Safety while looking to attack the Safety position in the 3rd or 4th round of the draft. If Williams isn't signed, I think that money is saved for guys like CJ and Timmy who will be next in line for nice deals.

5 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

NFL.com lists us at #1 on their list of potential landing spots. 

Obviously with how new the news is, nothing on their list was really based on sourced material... more or less pointed speculation, but we do tick "all the boxes" according to what Marshall said he's looking for, and Marshall ticks most of if not all the boxes we typically look for at WR.

 

I'm gonna go ahead and place a 65% chance on this happening. Not certain, but I think there's a better chance we sign him than we don't. 

Steve Smith Sr, said Marshall reached out to him about playing with Baltimore a couple days ago, so there is certainly interest there. I think the only question is numbers. What type of deal will Marshall command. I'm going higher than 65% because much like Sr, being able to be yourself in Baltimore will be a selling point for BMarsh over some other teams who might have a better shot at winning like the Pats. Sr said Marshall would be a great fit in Baltimore because he's a playmaker. Well that's exactly what the Ravens said they needed to compete with the likes of Steelers, Bengals and Pats consistently so go make it happen. 

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

This.  Don't fall victim to the underwear olympics.

people do every year 

33 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

The problem with him is that he won't do well against big nose tackles. It wouldn't be much of an upgrade over zuttah because they both struggle with the same thing. Big nose tackles. Otherwise I really like him and would be really happy with him in the second

I honestly don' think that's a huge problem for him. Even the best Centers get overpowered by big NTs from time to time, but as a former wrestler, he uses his hands and leverage very well. 

15 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

He doesn't have a low center of gravity and I don't know how he'll fare against low center of gravity nose tackles. I don't know if he can get under their pad level and add to that a lack of strength (22 reps), I'm not sure...

Won't act as if i've seen every snap, but I've never seen him get overpowered or play off balance which is usually things that show up when you're playing with high pad level. The 22 reps don't "look good" but the bench doesn't always show how strong a guy is. Again he plays with really good leverage and balance which adds to his strength. Also he has a chance to improve that number at his pro-day. He had a really good day imo, but i also caution against expecting a prospect to be flawless. Everyone will have something to improve upon and by all reports i've seen he's a hard worker who craves coaching. I think he's a day 1 starter and could really help the Ravens, but we'll see. 

Pat Elflein seems to be checking off all the necessary boxes, except the bench press which he can easily improve at his Pro day. I'm seeing a lot of 2nd round grades on him and I think he'd be a nice add for the Ravens. 

Also Sr looks good in his new job. Not as good as lining up at WR for the Ravens, but I think he'll be a great asset to the NFL Network. 

Just now, rmw10 said:

Oh without question.  I don't think it's as simple as just ignoring it, but it sounds like it may have even already been discussed.

Regardless, Marshall would definitely be a pickup that fits the mold of our previous WRs.  One of the rare times I'm actually on board with people rushing to sign someone that's cut.

I think he's a great fit. Vets like that are set in their ways and they like a coach that allows them to be who they are. Harbs wouldn't stop Marshall from doing media gigs, or from being outspoken in the locker room. His a high energy, high passion guy who plays with a ton of emotion much like Sr. He still has a lot left in the tank so he'd definitely be a #1. 

I also think he's a great fit for Perriman as well. Marshall could really help Perriman with certain facets of the game like route running, using his big frame, attack the ball, but more importantly BMarsh is a guy who also deals with drops and it'd be great for Perriman to see how he doesn't allow that to stop him from taking over a game. 

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

Zrebiec replied to a tweet about this and said his understanding is that in this case, it probably wouldn't matter since he's been so outspoken and clean since his incidents.

I think that's true, but a conversation is certainly being had imo. 

3 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I hope not. If Bisciotti feels like Marshall is a no go, then at least Marshall's created competition for Garcon and that may allow us to land Garcon instead. We need to keep Wallace and add one of these two for a chance to improve on last year.

I think Wallace stays no doubt. I still think market and value wise, Britt would be a solid add and will probably be less than Garcon but i'm happy either way. 

With Marshall, Ozzie said it would be hard to add a player with domestic violence in his past but he didn't say they would never add that player. Marshall has been incident free for about 7 years and I'm a believer that any person can redeem themselves. 

In terms of the backlash, I don't think Marshall is a big enough name to really be a distraction in that area. The only reason his domestic violence past would be brought up is because the Ravens took such a hard stance against Ray and the situation all together. I think the Ravens are far enough removed from the Ray Rice incident and Marshall short term past has not only been clear, he's done enough great things off the field that the Ravens should be able to make it work. If i had a vote, i'd say bring him in. 

8 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

B marsh released

maybe he actually ends up a raven? I can't see us not pursuing him pretty hard, cut players don't cost comp picks.

8 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Marshall has been released by the Jets upon the player's request. Now I can only pray that we leave no stone unturned to get him here on the Ravens! Marshall, Wallace, Perriman and Moore will scare the heck out of any defense as long as Flacco gets the ball to them in space. 

I agree Marshall would be a strong add. But I saw the question asked this morning of........Will Marshall be the player that makes the Ravens overlook the Domestic Violence stand? BMarsh has never been convicted of DV to my knowledge but he's been involved in like 7 different instances where he's been arrested for violence against a women. So this is not to say he's guilty of it but where there is a smoke, fire is certainly present. I think the Ravens have to have a real conversation about the stance on Domestic Violence in terms of Marshall because if they sign him I think the Ray Rice situation will certainly be revisited and you don't want that to be a distraction. 

26 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think contracts for RT's are going to start getting really high. Miller rushed from the right side of the offense over 60% of the time. As more and more teams look for that great second pass rusher, you'd best believe right tackles will get compensated well.

Teams have been looking for a second pass rusher since the turn of the century. Just look at the Ravens as an example, how long have they been looking for a bookend to pair up with Suggs. Being able to get Doom was a rarity. Teams just don't allow great pass rushers to hit the market and you'll only find maybe 1 or 2 in each draft. So while teams are looking for them, the supply of great pass rusher just aren't there. 

 As for Miller. Dominant pass rushers have been rushing from the right side for years. Miller isn't starting something new or bucking a trend. Watch any highlight tape of Matthews or Watt you'll see them rush from the right side often. Guys like Charles Johnson and Cam Wake pretty much rush from the right side exclusively, so I don't think QBs getting pressured from the right side will place anymore value on RT then it has been in previous years.  Teams have always wanted to have bookend rushers. The issue is, it's rare to have two dominant rusher on one team. So until that consistently starts to happening, I don't think much will change with the RT position. If you have a really good one, hold on to him. If you don't find a way to make it work, but I doubt we start seeing mega contracts in FA and RT only prospects getting drafted high because there are a handful of dominate pass rusher that teams want to attack the right side of the line with.

 There is no doubt that RTs will start to get paid more, it's natural that with more money for teams to spend higher contract values will follow. However that doesn't mean teams will get crazy for the RT position. Much like the stock market, the NFL FA market will eventually correct itself. RTs will start getting paid more, but that just means every other position will get paid more as well. So that position will still be one of the lowest paid on the Oline.

3 hours ago, jboy19 said:

Problem is that considering age/talent there aren't many OL about to hit the market that are on Wagner's level. Plus aside from Ramczyk/Bolles, there aren't any draft options that provide Wagner-level play at this point. 

So many teams have a ton of money this offseason and bidding is going to drive Wagner's price up. I'd be surprised if Wagner got less than 8mil/year if he gets to the open market. 

While teams having more money means they can offer more, there is still a market value that is set for each position. Right Tackle is just not the type of position to see the market set much higher then it's previous year. Just take Mitchell Schwartz last year for example. Here's a snippet from an article last year. 

Quote

The Browns, a source said, felt that Gilmore didn't engage with their original offer, believed to be about $7 million a year, and opted to test the waters. The average was more than the $6.6 million he ultimately received from the Chiefs.

When Schwartz shopped his offer in the days leading up to free agency, the right-tackle market turned out to be worse than originally anticipated. Several teams were interested, but none matched or exceed the Browns' $7 million offer.

So basically what happened in that situation was that Schwartz people got greedy and turned down a better offer because just like your thinking, they felt it was more money to be had in the market. Turns out teams just don't really value the RT position as much. Even though there were several teams interested there was no bidding war because people don't shell big money out to that position, especially for a RT only. I'm willing to bet that much like Schwartz, Wagner's crew will find that the competitive offer the Ravens had is either the best they'll find or it's gonna be so competitive to other teams that it'll probably be best for Wagner to stay put. Of course you might be right because some teams do crazy things with lots of money to spend. But 8Mil per would be an explosion for the RT market and I don't see it happening. Max is 7Mil I think. 

Just now, DomMcRaven said:

I was being sarcastic, but I agree. I hope we get a CB in one of the first two rounds.

Yea i know. I was agreeing with you

Not sure how popular of a pick he is right now, but I currently have the Ravens taking Fabian Moreau in the 2nd round. But that'll probably change in the coming days with the combine 

20 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

 

Agreed.  Although his skill set is diminishing, he's always been an incredibly smart player and it's clear he still has that going for him.  I think he made a much bigger difference in regards to communication back there than a lot of people realize.

This is one of the biggest things at Safety for me. You can have all the talent in the world but when you have veteran QBs on the opposite side, you need that smart Safety as the QB of the defense. I think Webb can still get it done for the 17' season or at least to start it, but having that young pup nipping at him would be a win win for everyone. 

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

If we cut Webb, sure, but otherwise, pass. Would like some youth at safety.

I'd rather stick with Webb for another year, add young guy like Jordan Poyer who could be the 3rd safety and compete to push Webb and also draft a guy like Lorenzo Jerome on day 3. 

14 minutes ago, The Raven said:

I want to agree, but guards, I believe, have typically had smaller salaries when compared to tackles. I could be wrong but generally, tackles get paid more. So, I can see a big pay day for a guard driving tackle salaries up.

On the other hand, front offices could be valuing top guards more than top tackles these days. In the age of the JJ Watt and Aaron Donald, lock down guards are probably worth more. You can always scheme help to tackles, but not to guards.

I think the key is separating the LT position from the RT position. Guards don't usually get paid as much as LTs but RT tackles just don't get big deals. Now if Wagner was an option at LT than maybe I could see that big payday that many others do. But I just don't see it. He'll be among the highest paid RTs no doubt but I don't think that number goes higher than 7M per year and 16M guaranteed at signing. Those numbers wouldn't even place Wagner among top 10 LT contracts. 

So if Wagner gets LT money, i'd be really surprised. 

7 hours ago, allblackraven said:

Keeping Wagner and adding Mangold would be the best moves we can possibly make this offseason. I still think you are too optimistic with the price Wagner would command though.

I may be too optimistic, I just can't see a RT only getting huge money. Even if Wagner sets the market it won't be much higher than Schwartz at 6.6M per and 15M guaranteed at signing. I also think Wagner will sign a cap friendly deal as well.

6 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I basically agree, i just worry about teams with insane amount of money, exactly what happened with KO.  Obviously Wagner is not on KO's level but the situation is basically the same.  Any team with a weak RT position could just offer him whatever.  But i dont keep up with the RT market very much lol

I just dont think its worth letting him walk because then it just opens another hole on the line.  I dont know what Lewis can do at RT?

I think the biggest difference with KO is that Oak signed him to be their long term LT, which he'll move into that role this year. Wagner is a RT only. Now that doesn't mean some team won't throw crazy money at him, i just don't see it. But until his name is signed we just don't know. 

I don't know what Lewis can do at RT either. I don't think anyone does. I just know that Wagner is probably the best RT we've had outside of Yanda who isn't an option. We need keep him and allow this young oline to grow together. The only change i want to see is Mangold at Center. I think he'd do for Lewis what Yanda did for Stanley towards the end of the season last year. 

1 hour ago, jboy19 said:

It's almost nostalgic seeing all these washed up icons on the market. Makes me want to fire up a copy of Madden 08. 

The Ravens need to follow suit.

1 hour ago, DomMcRaven said:

We should take a look at Revis.

 

 

 

Looks over.....not interested.

I'd much rather go younger and faster at the CB position. We've had some success with older vets and we've been screwed by some as well, but I'd rather draft that position and look for guys to step up. Both Price and Canady had strong moments last year. Tavon should definitely take the next step. 

3 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I would have no issue just making it 5 yr 35mill.  With the cap going up around 10% or so i think its worth it.  But i hope your right, it would be nice going into FA with those two locked up already and can focus on what else needs to be done. 

I would have no issue with 7M either. Don't think that 1.5M will make much of a difference if Wagner's people insist on it, I think the key will be that guaranteed money. If the Ravens are willing to go anywhere above 18.5M I think Wagner stays. Just don't think he's the make me the highest paid type. I think the Ravens would like to keep the guaranteed money between 14-17M and Wagner's people will aim for the 20M Schwartz got last year.

Wagner might end up signing for less with the Ravens just because I don't see the market going crazy for him. Marcus Cannon just got a 5yr 32.4M deal with 6.4 average and 14.5 guaranteed for the Pats. By comparison Cannon has played both the Left and Right side, as well as Guard for the Pats and he was rated among the top RT last year. Wagner is a RT only and while he's really important to what the Ravens want to do, his position isn't viewed as a priority position for most teams. Now I believe Wagner outside of 2015 has been among the better RTs in the NFL and I think the Ravens will see it that way to.  But I don't think the Ravens or anyone else will see Wagner anywhere near the 10M per that NFL.com said earlier this month and because of that no offer Wagner gets will be that far off of what the Ravens are offering and he stays. 

19 hours ago, jboy19 said:

I'd imagine that the Laurent Duvernay-Tardif deal (8mil/year for 5 years) is probably going to drive up the Wagner price. 

I don't really think it will. Although it's the oline, Guard and Tackles are two very different positions in terms of compensation. I think Wagner's price has always been between 6M and 7M per year. The Ravens probably offered Wagner around 4yr 24.5Mil and Wagner's people probably feel he can get close to 35Mil over 5yrs. I wouldn't be surprised to see both Wagner and Juice signed next week at the combine. Once Wagner's agent gets around other teams and gets a sense of what his client is really worth, he and the Ravens will go back to the table. 

Wagner's agent will probably find out that Right Tackles just don't get paid like that regardless of the huge cap space some teams have. Wagner will probably get a handful of offers but none will be much higher than the 6.6M that Schwartz got last year  imo. I could see some team going to 7M for Wagner but I'm not sure that'll be enough to get him to leave Baltimore. I think the biggest issue will be the bonus money. Schwartz set the market at 20.7M guaranteed last year. Will the Ravens be willing to approach that number?

My guess on Wagner is that he stays and gets a 5yr 33.5M  

14 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

They are saying that Mayock is going against conventional wisdom and what many of the mainstream draft analysts (like Kiper) think. That might be why the referenced what Kiper thinks.

I think he just made a mistake. Kiper's name is so common when talking about the draft that i think he just wrote Kiper but meant Mayock. 

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

My gut tells me if either Fournette or Dalvin Cook are magically available for us at #16 we would be foolish not to select either. In fact, I'll go as far as saying if 1 is gone and the other drops past 12, then to go up and get that guy by trading up. I truly believe they could be generational players in the Jamal Lewis mould for us and could dramatically help our terrible offense. It would also shield Flacco from mistakes and help him with confidence.

I agree with this. Right now i'm going between Cook and Barnett as the 16th pick. 

Cook would do wonders for this offense. This might not be a popular thought but the Ravens structure their team a lot like the Steelers do. If Cook is there i promise you everyone inside the Ravens war room will be thinking about the impact that Bell has in that Steelers offense. Cook is a homerun hitter in every since of the word and would really open the Ravens offense up. I don't think he's a work horse nor should he be. Cook and Dixon would be a great 1-2 punch. 10-15 carries per game for those guys would provide a night thunder and lighting style of running to this offense. Then of course that would just open up the play action game for guys like Perriman and Moore on the outside. The offense will operate off the run game and be built through the TEs. Having a guy like Cook who the defense will have to respect every play would be huge. Same goes for Fournette.

I think Barnett might just be the best pass rusher in this draft. He's a complete edge player and reminds me so much of Suggs coming to the Ravens from ASU. I don't think he'll test well as the combine and slide down the board as a result. There are some that don't like him and feel his production won't translate to the NFL but I don't share those concerns. I think he comes in day 1 and starts on the opposite of Suggs, learning the Ravens Way from Suggs before taking over as the top dog in 2018. He's the type of pass rusher that will make other guys better because he'll command double teams and for olines to account for him. The same way the Ravens were able to quickly replace Ray in the middle with CJ, I think they're able to replace Suggs with Barnett. He's gonna be a nightmare for QBs, I just hope he does it in a Ravens uniform. 

On 2/18/2017 at 0:49 AM, PurpleCity5 said:

The Ravens tend to find gems and contributors among veteran cuts. I personally view Mangold in that category, he would love to stay in NY but in a lot of websites and sources I've read, it seems that he's not returning and that there's a good chance he's cut. If so I could certainly imagine him coming here. As you said in regards to other FAs, sell, sell, SELL on him playing with a franchise as good and managed as the Ravens. Playing for the Jets takes a toll on a player and I know he wants to know what winning feels like again. He's made his money, I don't think he wants to waste his time playing for an underwhelming franchise like Cleveland unless someone severely overpays which I doubt will be the case. 

I think he'll compliment Yanda very well and both will further influence Stanley and Lewis to be more physical linemen. You can't let him leave the facility without a deal. 

He's available now, time to go get him. Question is what type of deal do you give him. As you said, get him in the building and don't let him leave until he's signed. I think that's an immediate upgrade to the Center position and frees you up to select another position of need in the draft.