Ravensfan23

The Ravens fan base is probably the only group of people who think Rick Dennison is a great or even good OC. Just because you've been around someone in that very same system for years doesn't mean you are great at running that system. There is a reason why Kubes has been the play caller regardless of where he's been and what title he's held. I have nothing against Dennison personally and all i know of him as a coach is he's done miserable whenever given a chance to run the offense in Kubes absence. Games he's been charged with running the offense and calling plays the team has looked terrible, even worse than the Ravens looked at times this year. I'm not saying the guy is bad but it seems people think he'll be good just because he's been around Kubiak. and that's not the case.

I think if the Ravens were confident that Dennison could be a strong OC they wouldn't have allowed him to go to Denver, they would have just blocked him from going.  

35 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Everything is on the table for Pitta. I think the least likeliest outcome is his contract stays as is, with us paying him $5.5M next season.

A paycut is a possibility, though Dennis performed reasonably well this year, so its not as easy to ask him for one now as it was last season, when his value was about as low as it gets.

I also don't think a straight cut pre-June 1st is off the table either. You still get $3.3M in cap savings, and that could prove valuable during the earliest stages of FA. In general I'm not a huge fan of the post-June 1st cuts. There is some value in them, but you don't get to spend the cap space until June, so its not going to help you much in FA, especially if you've already locked up your draft picks.

A "wildcard" option would be to give him a short-term extension that would lower his current cap hit, but that seems highly unlikely.

My best guess is they approach him to take a paycut (maybe about half, paying him like $3M next season) and if he refuses, they outright cut him before June 1st. I think if you can bring his cap number down to the $5-5.5M range, I think he has value there.

I think it's highly unlikely Pitta takes another pay cut. I personally don't think he had a great year but his numbers suggest he did so I doubt he and his people would take too kind to a pay cut. This is probably the biggest reason I see him no longer with the team in 2017. I think the Ravens will be more than willing to take their chances that this group of young TEs. 

28 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

They could do that, sure but, any way you look at it, it's not a pretty situation and would only get uglier if he was to get injured again. 

I think this is a huge factor as well. Pitta played a full season and that's great, but that doesn't mean he's out of the water injury wise. His hip is a ticking time bomb and while it sucks to treat him like a throw away players, his contract situation makes things tough like you said. I'd be very surprised to see Pitta a member of the 2017 Baltimore Ravens no matter the route that is taken to reach that conclusion. 

So today is both the last game of the season and the first few hours of the offseason for the Ravens. Going into 2017 I think there are a lot of positives but also so major changes that will be made. I'll focus on some of the really good positives I think the Ravens have moving forward. 

1. The Rookie class of 2016. I think the Ravens had a great draft in 2016 and could be even better next year if a couple other guys develop. Stanley is a stud. I think we can put to bed the notion that the Ravens missed on Tunsil. Whether the video led to passing on him, Stanley was the right pick. Dixon will have a Ray Rice impact to this offense moving forward imo. That guy is a beast and should be a exciting piece for whoever is the OC. Young gave me a Lardarius Webb feel in his rookie year. Not the biggest guy but could have lockdown potential with a little better technique. Lewis played really well at LG and I think he and Stanley will make a really strong pair.

2. The RBs. I know the running game has been in question all year, but I think we got a really good impression of what these young guys can do. Dixon, West and Juice should have any OC smiling ear to ear at the possibilities of this offense. I think we saw in preseason how dominant this run game could be and most of us envisioned a offense that would feature it much more. The Steelers were a good defense and they ran over them at will.

3. I think the oline is a positive moving forward. Stanley, Lewis, Yanda and Wagner should all return to starting roles and if they can upgrade the center position I think the oline will be a strength moving forward.

4. I think the Ravens might have one of the best ILB tandems in the NFL. Outside of Weddle, Orr was the biggest Pro Bowl snub for the Ravens imo. I really like CJ and Orr. It'll also be interesting to see how the Ravens plan to use KC next year but unless Orr just rest on his great season and doesn't work hard to get better during the offseason, I think this tandem will be great in 2017.

5. I think the defense is in good hands with Weddle as the leader. But more speed has to be added to that side of the ball. A month ago I would have included the run defense as a strength moving forward but the better rushing teams like Mia, NE, Dal and Pit were able to run at will on this defense. I still view the defense as a strength just needs some tweaking and a overall view of how good they actually are. They focused on getting more sacks a couple years ago and the sack total increased. They focused on getting more turnovers this year and they did. I guess next year they should focus on closing out games better. 

13 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

 

 

I could only find this info guys....

http://overthecap.com/player/dennis-pitta/1373/

Thanks so it seems i was definitely wrong with the 2M roster bonuses. I think that gives the Ravens a little wiggle room then. They can monitor the progression and health of the other 4 TEs and if they are pleased cut Pitta post June 1st. Or they could just restructure his deal again and keep him around 1 more season. 

1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

If Kubiak were to retire for health reasons, then Dennison might end up a free agent OC that the Ravens can grab.

I assume the only reason to want Dennison is because he's been under Kubes for so many years. So what that being the case have you ever seen how completely inept the Texans and Broncos offenses have been when Dennison has gotten a chance to take over for Kubes. I'll pass. 

14 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Source for this?

No source, that's why I used the phrase like 2Mil because I was trying to remember a report I read earlier this year when his deal was restructured. Is that number not right? 

Actually I think that number maybe wrong. I know the Ravens will save about 5Mil if they cut Pitta after June 1 but without restructuring his deal or cutting him he'll count for about 7Mil against the cap. Way too much imo. 

5 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Yikes, I had no idea about that roster bonus. I thought he earned his incentives, in that case he might be toast, I still find it hard to trust the other guys though, for precautionary reasons we might keep him because as an offense we'll sorely regress if we get very little production from the TE position with the way the other guys played this year. 

I think that's a huge reason for the offensive struggles this year to be honest. Pitta's numbers may have looked good, but his inability to separate from LBs underneath caused problems. Now Waller and others didn't do much better but none of those guys saw the field nearly as much as Pitta either. Nothing Pitta did this season made me thing this offense would be in trouble without him simply because he wasn't a difference maker. I think if the hip injuries never took place a lot more people would look at Pitta and say man he looks like he's lost a step or two. But instead, the way he's actually come back from those injuries kind of makes people marvel at his ability to come back. 

I'm not beating up on Pitta, but I just think there wasn't much that came out of the TE position this year and he was the primary guy. The hope is Williams, Waller and Boyle all develop as 3rd year players. I think we'd all love it if they showed flashes that they are ready to take over but I don't think the Ravens have much choice if they want this offense moving forward. 

It's hard for me not to have a mindset of hurry up and get this game over. I already have a mind towards 2017 but i'm always excited to see the Ravens play so I'll be front and center tomorrow. I am excited to see some of these younger guys play a bit and also the Ravens are playing to finally get that Bengals monkey off their back no matter how insignificant the game may seem. 

p.s. I can't recall who or what led to the pool pic, but if it's a superstition or meant to bring good vibes towards the game, it might be time to change things up based on how the last few seasons have gone. The team will probably be making some major changes, maybe the fans need to as well.  

19 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

My mom always said, if you can' find something nice to say, you don't say nothing at all. So did Bambi..  but some folks can NEVER find anything nice to say, even when it's well deserved.  ANYWAY, who said he didn't care about winning????  Oh, that's right, some of the so called, fans.

If you gotta quote Bambi before the last game of the season it's gonna be a long,. long offseason @The Mom Gene

17 minutes ago, JO_75 said:

What OC out there is similar to Kubiak scheme wise without actually bringing back Kubiak?

Don't know how similar his scheme would be, but Matt LaFleur has been in that system every year since 2008. After being together in Houston he basically followed Kyle Shanahan everywhere so if he gets a HC job LaFleur is probably sure to follow. However if he doesn't get HC maybe LaFleur is a fresh face the Ravens can break into the OC scene on the NFL level.

I wanted James Washington on this team so bad. I think that guy will be special at the NFL level but he's returning for his Senior year. I just saw a Mock Draft on WalterFootball and they have the Ravens taking Amara Darboh in the 3rd round. He has a great matchup vs McFadden who as only a SO is one of the better CBs in college football. Should be a great stage for him tonight. 

So much went wrong for the Ravens in 2016 so one thing or person can be blamed. 

I think one of the biggest issues was that for the 2nd straight season injuries really hurt this team. That 4 game stretch where the Ravens were without 6-7 pro bowl caliber players really hurt because it came at a point in the season when even the guys like Flacco, Dixon and Wagner who were on the field weren't quite fully recovered from Injury.  Now there are things in that 4 game losing streak that can be pointed out like the offense in a funk, Harbs maybe being too aggressive at times, the defense collapsing and boneheaded penalties at costly times, but I think those injuries might have ranked above all. 

15 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

I believe Todd Heap requested his release so he could finish his career close to his family in Arizona. 

Kind of hard to believe that was the case when Heap actually agreed to play for Arizona while visiting with the Jets. Also Heap himself said that the release caught him off guard in a 2011 presser leading up to the game vs the Ravens. Also at the time Harbs said it was tough to cut Heap but the Ravens needed cap space and wanted to play Pitta and Dickson.

57 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Will admit you got a very good point in mentioning Pitta and Dickson, but at the same time Todd Heap was cut in training camp, what made that decision easier? Those two guys emerging in camp. 

We have so many guys we expect to step up in various positions that I personally think its too risky to cut Pitta this early. I personally expect Perriman, Young, Lewis, Pierce, and Judon to make strides this year and I don't think you can add another guy to that. 

Now let me say this, I don't think Pitta is here to stay, that I don't think is the case, just think we should wait till camp just to see what the other guys will give us. Maxx Williams was injured but prior till that said injuries we didn't hear much of him. He really didn't make an impact next season but of course you have to rely on him next season simply because of his draft selection. 

As far as Waller goes, I do blame some of his missed opportunities on his lack of targets, there were various times he was open and Joe did not look his way, but of course that drop vs Pitt was awful. 

I do question why Pitta gets so many snaps, but it just seems to me that all those guys you mentioned are situational players in their own right. Boyle has his moments but isn't a consistent option at TE and only gets reps because of his blocking. Waller is good for one catch a game and Gilmore just seems to struggle with the same thing this year as he did last year, can't get away from double teams and isn't consistent. It was a disappointing year for him. Williams just didn't get open often but I think he just needs to continue to build on himself similar to Perriman. 

If one of those four guys made more of an impact then I say we cut Pitta now, but since they haven't then I think we wait till camp and see what we have with those guys. Just feel that Pitta is on the field because he's better, and by a significant margin. As soon as he arrives all those guys just played the 2nd fiddle, that tells me something about the group, they have honestly been the most disappointing unit this season.

Both Todd Heap and Derrick Mason were cut before training camp in 2011 and what had to make that decision even tougher is the NFL being in a lockout so the Ravens couldn't see the development of Dickson and Pitta during offseason workouts or mini camps. As soon as the lockout ended, the Ravens cut Mason and Heap almost immediately. I have to think if there was no Lockout those moves would have come much earlier. 

I could see Pitta being like Forsett and being a guy cut during or after camp, but I also know his contract situation is much different than Forsett's was. Forsett was inexpensive and that made keeping him around much easier, Pitta is due like a 2Mil roster bonus on March 1st. The Ravens would save 3Mil by cutting him and that could go a long way to maybe adding someone like Melvin Ingram in FA. I think it'll be a situation to keep an eye on. 

9 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Garcon is a sure handed, tough guy with nifty routes and plays scrappy. 

He is the polar opposite of Mike Wallace.

Yea I was wrong on that. 

5 hours ago, DomMcRaven said:

I agree with JF5, I prefer Garcon over Britt, but I wouldn't be mad per se if we got Britt. Every day I read Zrebiec's tweets and he seems confident that Marty will no longer be the OC. In fact, he expects a lot of changes to take place so I'm definitely eager to see what changes are implemented. 

 

What did he say exactly?

11 minutes ago, hereweare said:

Not sure I get the Crabtree comparison,.he was far more productive in SF than Britt ever has been until this year. What do you think garçon would get in FA? And I guess I need to see some more of Britt after hearing this. I'd admit I was surprised to see his 3rd down catches stat

1000 yards, 75+ catches and 50 first downs is low production?

 If garçon was brought in it wouldn't be to have 40 catches.

It wasn't a stat comparison it was the fact that Crabtree getting hurt in SF basically caused people to write him off. Many said he no longer had it, but the Raiders gave him a shot and he made good on it. 

But since you brought the stats up, lets look at them. The biggest reason Crabtree has far more production is because Britt got hurt in year 3 and it derailed his progress majorly. But since they entered the NFL together in 2009 it's easy to compare them. Over their first 2 season.

Crabtree's numbers: 27gms 103recs 1,366yds 8TDs

Britt's numbers: 28gms 84recs 1,476yds 12TDs

Not a huge difference in production there, Crabs was more of a possession guy while Britt was a downfield guy. It was year 3 that really separated them. Crab's numbers were on par to the previous 2 years 15gms 72rec, 874yds 4TDs, but Britt was poised for a huge breakout before getting hurt in week 3. 3gms 17rec, 289yds 3TDs. That season Britt was on pace for 90rec, 1,541yds 16TDs. Of course there's noway of knowing what exactly would have happened, but my point was that the Knee injuries, much like Perriman really hurt his development. But now he appears back and could be a great #2 for some team.

7 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

Correction, second team. The point is you have to ask why they would let someone with his skillset and talent hit free agency.

The same reason why anybody hits FA. Why did the Panthers like SSS go? Why did the Ravens allow KO or Torrey to walk? The Titans let him go because in his 3rd season he a terrible knee injury that followed him into his 4th season leading to another injury. In his 5th and final season of his rookie deal he was a shell of his former self(before the injury he was on pace for a studly year). The Rams signed him to a 1yr deal and he played well enough to get an extension. He smartly only signed a 2yr deal and bet on himself to hit FA one last time to cash in at 29 years old. He did have the arrest issues during the 2011 season, but again that's when he was still a immature kid that didn't know how to handle the adversity in his life. 

The Rams clearly want him back but at 29 years old and having a career year Britt would be foolish not to test the market and see if he can get with a team who he could help get to a Super Bowl whether that's the Ravens or not. 

9 minutes ago, hereweare said:

Well if we get him I hope you're right. 

Personally, I think it's safe to say Garcon can replace 80% of Steve smiths production. With an improved BP the WR core wouldn't have any setbacks.

I just think Garcon is gonna command really big money. Someone with a lot of money to throw around is going to make him a really rich man and that's assuming the Skins let him get away. That offense really has something good going. I think if you could get him than great but right now I just don't see it. 

Over the course of their careers Garcon has been the better guy, but as i mentioned Britt just really got over his knee issues enough to get that explosion back in his route running and looked a lot like the #1WR the Titans thought they drafted this year. I just see the same scenario Crabtree had with Britt. Many just wrote him off as a lost cause after the injury but he bounced back. I could definitely see Britt and Perriman forming a great 1-2 punch.

Just now, hereweare said:

So on 3rd n 8 you think we can count on Kenny Britt to get open? 

 

Absolutely. Have you seen this guy play? Go back and watch his games vs physical Seahawks secondary. I have no doubt that he's gonna be a really strong #2 WR for some team and I'd love it to be Baltimore. 

36 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

Kenny Britt has talent, but he's always had question marks about his maturity and work ethic. It says a lot when your third team declines to offer an extension.

 

What team is that? He's only played for the Titans and Rams. He had terrible knee injuries in Ten that basically made him a shell of himself and that's why they didn't resign him after his rookie year. 

Then he signed a 1yr prove deal with the Rams where he had a bounce back season and got a 2yr extension with the Rams. Right now he's the only bright spot at WR for a terrible Rams offense and they want to resign him but he'd be foolish not to test the market. 

Furthermore Britt has assumed a leadership role with a young Rams team and hasn't had one issue. He had a rough patch in Ten dealing with the major injuries but since than nothing. 

4 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Also, Kenny Britt will be available. 

 

 

That's who i'd like to see. I think he'd fit this offense going forward and what they want to do. I don't think the system will change just maybe the OC running it. Britt had some struggles early in his career but has really turned things around and even produced his first 1,000 yard season in 2016. I think he's one of those rare cases of a guy hitting his prime late because of injury. Kenny Britt was poised to have a huge season in year 3 but he had a bad injury that basically robbed him of 3 additional seasons because he never really healed 100%. However once he completely got over the knee injuries, he got that explosiveness that made him a #1 draft pick back. He's a big bodied guy who uses that size and speed so well. I think he's just hitting his prime and could very well be the best available WR in FA this year but will go under the radar. I think he'll have a Crabtree type impact for whoever signs him. Also i think he'd be the best type of guy to really help Perriiman develop even more.

If I'm Ozzie i'd attack Kenny Britt early in FA the same way they did Watson. I'd have no problem with a 4yr 28-30M and making him a Day 1 priority FA. 

4 hours ago, DomMcRaven said:

Taliaferro seems like a lost cause to me (not sure how good he was on ST).

If there's ANYONE on the team that needs continuity, it's Flacco. Good grief. But I agree about Wagner especialy since our run defense has been regressing over the last 2 games (which is inexplicable to me). Now a WR that a lot of posters here are clamoring for is Garcon. My question is: is he truly gonna leave WSH and if so, I wonder how much is he going to demand for. 

While I don't want the FO to rush the decision, I hope they choose whether to stick with Marty as the OC or move in a new direction. Now let's say Marty comes back, I wonder how different his playbook is from Trestman's.

I don't think Taliaferro is here next year. I think Juice has a much larger role next year at FB. Maybe won't have as much of an impact in short yardage as LeRon McClain but he'll definitely serve as a short yardage type guy.

Not sure Garcon is a good fit honestly. I see he and Wallace as the same type of player and that wouldn't be a problem but as you said at what price? I think where a guy like Britt would be better is because he's a big bodied guy who still has enough speed to quickly attack the 3rd level and make plays down field. He struggled to put things together early  in his career but just produced his first 1,000 yard season in 2016. I'd offer him a contract similar to Wallace but spread it out over 4 years. Something like 4yr 25Mil. Don't know what the cap looks like but I'd definitely be willing to offer him that and pair him and Perriman together moving forward. That would give this offense two really good #2 type WRs in Britt and Wallace, with the hope that Perriman has a huge jump in year 2(on field). 

Yea I want a decision quickly made as well. I think you wanna have a guy place before the Senior Bowl because it's easier to identify players who fit your system when you actually have a system. I think if Marty is the guy the playbook will look much different but the system will remain the same. I say this because I think we started to see it more and more over the last 4-5 games. I think that's what led to some of the disconnect by the offense, Marty implementing more and more of his offense. The running game looked completely different under Marty imo and i think what we'll see is that being a bigger part of the offense moving forward and that playaction being a biggest factor as a result. 

19 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

That would be much easier if Waller, Williams, Boyle and Gilmore actually made more of an impact this year, which none of them have, with the exception of Waller and his impact was minimal. Gilmore and Williams had a very disappointing year this season, especially Williams who didn't even record a catch and Gilmore who didn't do much, both guys have injury concerns as well and its becoming a trend. Now if you're recommending that we employ someone to step up at TE than okay, but I don't think we will gamble at TE and WR, not after the year the offense had. 

If Pitta fails to win the starting job at camp, then you know one of those guys will make an impact, if he does then that tells you that none of those guys are the solution. 

Again what did Dennis Pitta and Ed Dickson show in 2010 that made the Ravens comfortable with cutting Todd Heap after a 40rec 599yds 15ypc 5TD season? Those two guys as rookies had a total of 12 catches for less than 200 yards. Even in hindsight you can't sit here and tell me that was a easy move to make. It's not about being easy, it's about what's best moving forward. 

I'll say the same thing I said about Forsett, the Ravens can't move forward with Pitta being your primary TE and if he's not your #1 guy than he's way too expense as a back up. Dennis Pitta was apart of the problem offensively. Not being able to consistently separate from LBs to take advantage of those favorable matchups is one of the reasons they team would throw short of the sticks so much. Of his 75rec only 4 were explosive plays and only 31 resulted in first down catches. His 8.5ypc was 2nd worse among the top 40 TEs in the NFL, so let's not act as if Pitta crushed it in 2016. I honestly think that any of the 4 young TE could produce he same numbers if not much better than Pitta if given the same opportunities. 

Then look at the 4 young TE and show me where Pitta fits, Maxx is a 2nd round pick who had a solid rookie season but injury robbed his sophomore season. He's also entering the 3rd year of a 4 year contract. You must find out what you have with him right now. He's almost guaranteed to see more action in 2017. Waller is a guy the Ravens love at TE and they'll continue to develop him so he's not going anywhere. They've found something with him in the redzone and role will just continue to grow. Boyle is clearly the best blocker and will be locked into that #2 role because of what he does in the run game. So if Pitta is nothing more than a glorified checkdown option, why should he take snaps away from those young guys?

 Also the biggest thing against Pitta is that large cap number. The Ravens can't keep him at that price tag and if Pitta and his people still feel he's among the better TEs in the NFL much like Boldin and Ngata he probably won't be willing to take a pay cut. 

9 hours ago, January J said:

Hard to get excited about a game with 2 teams out of contention...but I for one am excited to see the youngsters get more snaps. Let's see what they can do. Not to mention this may be the last time we get to see SSS  take the feild. Hope he balls out like kobe did in his finale.

This is what i thought at first but who are they? Most of the guys you'd want to see going forward are already playing significant snaps. Definitely won't ask SSS to sit in possibly his last game. Maybe the smart move is to allow Yanda, Suggs and Doom rest because of injury but haven't we seen guys like Lewis, Judon and ZDS enough to where 1 game won't really do much to change our opinions of them good or bad? 

So i too am excited to see the young guys, I just don't know who to expect that we haven't really already seen. I guess putting Perriman and Waller in the #1 WR and TE spots would be good. Giving Camp slot reps over Aiken, but for me I'd love to see Skura called up from the PS and given a full game at Center to see if he's a guy to look at moving forward. 

52 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

One thing that needs to be taken care of sooner rather than later is discipline. I can recall so many stupid penalties from both sides of the ball, and STs as well, seemed like we never had a punt without one. During the offseason Harbaugh et. al. better be hammering home discipline from the get go, we can't be as penalized next year as we were this year. I can't even tell you how many time we talked about drive killing penalties all year long, I can remember having the conversation following the Bills game for god's sake.

Seems like it wasn't too long ago that Harbaugh teams were hailed for their discipline.

My first thought with the discipline thing is, when you have such a young team discipline may be an issue. However It seems guys like Zuttah, Ducasse and other vets were just as guilty.