Ravensfan23

4 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

Sooooo, it is a combination of the coaches not utilizing the personnel properly?  

 

Exactly 😁

14 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

I also think that it is a combination of these coaches not utilizing their personnel properly as well.

I'm hearing this a lot and I've even said it too. I think it was after the Pats game I said I didn't think Marty knew how to use the talent on this offense. But after really breaking the offense down, I don't think that's the case. Let's be honest, the offensive staff has gotten away with some mediocre talent for years now. Although the Ravens have tried to improve the talent I think this team has just been snake bitten by injuries far too much over the last few years.

Also some guys just don't fit what this offense is designed for. Neither Wallace nor Pitta fit this offense imo and SSS clearly lost a step last year, with is totally understandable. So that's 3 of your top target that really couldn't win early in their routes and that led to checkdowns. If the Ravens are committed to the WCO they have to fully commit and get players that can excel. Now I do think there is a role for Wallace here, but it should be nothing more than a 3rd or 4th option that can make plays down field. The Ravens desperately need Perriman to develop into a guy who can win at every level, cause the offense won't be successful without it. 

The vertical passing game just isn't a big part of the WCO. So myself and many others who wanted to see that this year were upset but the reality is, the deep passing game has to be set up by those 7-12 yard routes being successful and the Ravens weren't good at it. So safeties could just sit back in deep zone and really take the deep ball away. This team needs guys who can win early and stay healthy. Or if they aren't great route runners, they need to have that big body presence to get between the defender and the ball.   

6 hours ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

There are very few that are truly 'the best' at their positions.
The real challenge is working to make others acknowledge that you truly are one of the best at what you do.

Very good overall statement; however, I think you've missed my point on this one. The 1st question you have to ask is, "Did Marty improve Joe's play or not this season?" If you feel he has than we simply have a difference of opinion.

It's my opinion that he did not based on games coached. I was in 'Camp Marty' the entire time during his interim duties as OC because of the continuity and familiarity aspects of Joe and his relationship with the team. A mid-season change like bringing in someone else would have been too much, but a change is needed now.

Marty is not the answer. You believe he'll right the ship, but I see more of the same. He's no Kubiak - who had so much league-wide respect that demanded Joe's respect. On the other hand, Marty pretty much pandered to Joe's ego which hampered Joe's play and didn't challenge his resolve (examples: Pass to Run ratio especially when the run was abandoned while averaging good gains, allowing Joe to run too many short 'comfort-zone' pass plays for minimal gains and calling many plays that didn't highlight/maximize the strengths of the other skill-players based-on situational awareness.

Yes, every NFL player has an ego, but every NFL player should also not let ego get in the way of development. Joe's problem is not arm-strength, ball placement, the playbook, etc. It's mental. He's said on several occasions that he wants to be considered 'elite' and I truly want that for him, but it's not about what you say - it's what's displayed. There has been a noticeable regression since our last appearance in the AFC Championship. Marty should have been allowed to continue-on as a QB Coach after this season. He's not the type of guy who can turn our offense around nor elevate Joe.

My thoughts are really about the rest of the offense. The Dixen and West paring could be one of the best tandems in the league, our o-line could also be elite and with 2 of the fastest receivers in the league...? We'll let's just say it's not all about Joe's ego it's about the team. Marty coached to Joe's ego - not the unit.

Kubes is one of the best offensive minds in the NFL. Not many compare to him, but he ain't coming back. We gotta move on. 

I actually think Marty did help Joe improve. Once Flacco showed signs of completely being over the knee issues, he played really well. Over a 8 game stretch from the Week 9 to Week 16 Flacco played really well. These are his numbers. 8gms 215/315 68% 2213yds 15TDs 8Ints 7.0ypa and the team came within inches in Pit from going 6-2. In what world are those not great numbers? Not just good but great, especially considering that 4 of the Ints weren't his fault. Now this is not to say that Joe had an overall great season because he didn't. But he improved, not the mission has to be building on it not starting from square one. 

Our oline could be elite? Which one because the Ravens had about 8 or 9 different combinations this year. Elite? Let's at least be honest in the expectations. 

In terms of using the personnel wrong, that's not the case imo. People want to see the Ravens push the ball down field because of Wallace and Perriman but that's not the offense. I'll admit that it frustrated me as well, but that's not the offense. Unlike under Cam, the deep ball now has to be set up and if you don't have success moving LBs and Safeties with the intermediate routes, the deep ball can be easily taken away in the WCO and that's what happened with the Ravens. Neither Perriman nor Wallace ran good enough routes to keep this offense on track and Pitta was nothing more than a check down option. The WCO is set up by a precision passing game in most cases and the Ravens didn't have that. SSS lost a step, which is understandable and while athletic, Waller didn't run good enough routes to get open quick. This is why we saw so many check downs. Not because they were called but because guys weren't getting open quick enough and even when the oline got healthy Flacco didn't have many clean pockets. This is why the deep passing game wasn't used more because the Ravens couldn't take advantage of that 7-12 yard area to influence the LBs and Safeties. 

Logic says if your passing game isn't working just run the ball, but it's not that simple. The WCO offense at it's roots is a passing offense. Now Shanahan put a twist in the game by building the WCO through his oline, but everybody can't do that especially if they weren't taught that way. First thing you want to do is establish a rhythm for your QB and if things aren't working you're gonna continue to try and get that passing game working because you're entire offense is based on it. It's no different than a run heavy team believing that even if the run game doesn't gain much yardage early, keep pounding it and eventually one will break, it's the same philosophy just different mindsets. Go back to Kubiak's time in Houston, one of the biggest knocks on him was that he was too stubborn to go away from the run game when it wasn't working and didn't adjust well in those games. So it's not just a Marty thing, even the best stick to what they believe and have faith in. I don't believe Marty called plays to fit Flacco's ego, I think he just called plays based on the fact that this team will only go as far as Flacco takes them and he's running a offense designed to get his QB in a rhythm at all cost, even if it takes 50 attempts to do so. 

Like it or not this is the offense the Ravens decided to run. Now it's about doing what's necessary to get the most out of it. 

11 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I do not view the check-downs as an extension of the running game. They're meant to be exactly what the name implies- a check down when no other passing option is open. If we're talking screens, swing passes, wheel routes, etc., then sure, I can see it being an extension of the running game. We didn't see that, though. What we saw was little dump offs over the middle that are a last resort for your passing game.

I had to look up what teams ran the WCO, but I found this- Bills (2), 49ers (4), Bengals (9), Eagles, (10), Raiders (11), Falcons (12), Chiefs (14), Broncos (15), Colts (16). Nine teams in the top half of the league run a WCO and were in the top half of rushing attempts. Four ranked in the top 10. Hell, the Ravens were behind the Packers and their WR converted to RB in rushing attempts. That's sad.

Also, as a side note, NE actually passed the ball only 55% of the time and ran 45% of the time. That's nuts for a team that's viewed as all Brady.

Anyway, back on track. Baltimore actually ranked dead last in the NFL in pass to run ratio. Lower number meaning they ran the ball more, here are some WCO's and their ranks. Bills (31), 49ers (29), Bengals (23), Falcons (22), Chiefs (20), Oakland (19), Eagles (18), Denver (17). That's an even eight in the top half of run percentage plays and it looks like another four in the top 10. All of those teams listed were about 59% pass:41% run or closer to 50%:50%. 

Clearly there's a good chance to run the ball and still be able to have a very efficient passing game (Falcons, Bengals, Raiders, Colts). It doesn't have to be exclusive, and in the case of teams like the Falcons, it probably aided in one of the most proficient seasons ever by a quarterback.

The Ravens ran the ball pretty well as the season wore on. Dixon really hit a groove and West seemed to break off longer runs more consistently in the second half of the season. The Ravens just absolutely chose to not run the ball.

I agree with all of that. My question is how does the offense improves moving forward. Everyone including players and coaches have said the offense needs the run the ball a bit more, but it's not gonna be a whole lot more imo. Going into the offseason what are the adjustments you think need to be made to help improve the running game? Is it just rushing the ball 3-4 more times per game and throwing it 3-5 times less? Is it improving the blocking scheme or what? Is it being able to improve the passing game and scoring. 

The Ravens didn't run the ball enough at all, but moving forward I don't think they'll run it much more than they have. That 26-27 attempt range is the sweet spot imo and that'll be good for anywhere from that top 10-17 ranking. I think the key is getting the most out of the passing game and taking advantage of those early scoring opportunities which the Ravens didn't do this past season. I think if the Ravens convert on more scoring opportunities and can play with the lead more it'll bring those passing totals back down to the 35-38 range and get the rush attempts up to that 26 range. I honestly don't think just running the ball more was the key to success last year, I think the Ravens have to fix the passing game because that's the focal point of the offense. 

I think what Harbs said in his presser was telling and I think the end of season presser might tell us more about the thinking moving forward. Harbs mentioned how they already have an idea of the type of WR they need and the type of RB they need, which says to me they think they are missing a few pieces to this offense. I think those pieces are a WR or 2 who runs strong routes and gets open quick. Wallace is a good speed guy but they'll needs guys like Perriman and Moore to develop as route runners along with another WR who can either get open quick or uses his body well to get between the defender and the ball. Also I think they are looking for a more physical RB. Both West and Dixon have a physical element to their game but I think the Ravens want a bruiser to pair with Dixon. He also spoke about improving the oline. 

I think a draft that consist of WR Cooper Kupp, RB Samaje Perine and C Jon Toth could really help take this offense to the next level.

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah I mentioned Wright in the other thread but I really like him as a fit here. He could be one of those guys we help turn around and become a star. I say sign him to a one year deal and hope he pans out. I wouldn't make that our only move but one of them for sure

Yea the Ravens should definitely be able to pull off a 1yr low cost deal. His production has gone down each year and he pretty much fell out of favor in Tennessee. Not great terms entering FA. Sign him to a one year prove it deal and let him prove himself. It'll also work for him because it'll basically be a audition Year for a big contract. I would love the move. 

Definitely shouldn't be the only move. In his presser Harbs spoke about wanting to add another WR, be it a vet or rookie. His description of that WR was big physical possession type guy who can still make plays down field, I immediately thought of Kenny Britt. I've made it clear I'd love to see him here on a reasonable deal. If both Britt and Wright are added to Perriman, Moore and Camp I think that's would be a nice WR Corp but certainly young and unproven. But if Britt and Wright are added I wouldn't have a problem moving on from Wallace and Aiken. 

3 hours ago, ravensnj said:

I really think Kendall Wright can help this team. This guy is becoming a free agent and has a knack for getting open, even though he doesn't have top end speed. He will be cost friendly and can actually catch the ball. 

Top end speed shouldn't be the focus of this offense. Solid to elite route running and the ability to make guys miss in tight spaces is what the Ravens need. I don't know how he'd handle replacing a legend but he's definitely SSS like. Of course he's no Sr, but I like his similar style of play. Also love the fact that he'd be low cost with a huge chip on his shoulder as a castoff 1st rounder. 

12 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I will totally eat crow if I'm wrong, but this year gave me absolutely zilch to feel encouraged about.

The Ravens as a whole managed 4.0 yards per carry. West had 4.0 and Dixon had 4.3. Dixon especially was killing it over the second half of the season. There really was no reason to not run the ball other than an absolute disdain for running the ball, which is weird since he featured one of the best rush offenses in the NFL in NYJ. 

I would just hate to see the same sloppy mechanics and lack of desire to run the ball next season. The Ravens offense was just too horribly inefficient and ran the ball far too little to not entertain some interviews.

game film speaks much louder than what we as fans see. Even watching all 22 angles as fans doesn't compare to what these coaches and players see when watching film. 

You and I have had the not running the ball enough convo and i've said you were 100% right in our talks. However we have to get to the bottom of exactly what's going on. The Ravens are sold out to running the WCO and unless your name is Kubiak more often than not you're gonna throw the ball considerably more than you run it in the WCO. That's just the way it is. The WCO by design spreads the defense horizontally with the passing game and using the run off of it. I'm sure you already know this, just saying. So those dink and dunk passes are here to stay because they are an extension of the run game. I don't think we see a average more than about 26 attempts per game over the course of the season. Which means Flacco will still throw 38-41 times per game. If we look at the numbers over Marty's 10 games that's about how they average out. 
So now knowing that this is probably the play distribution we'll next season, the question becomes, how do we get more out of the running game. Honestly I think the way you improve the running game and have even more attempts is to improve the passing game. The WCO offense is more of a precision offense and the Ravens passing game was anything but, from Flacco to the WRs, to the Oline. If the Ravens can improve on those 5-7 yard precision routes designed to keep the offense ahead of the sticks, I think we'll see more rushing attempts because the Ravens will produce more 1st downs and improving the precision helps in the redzone so scoring will improve as well. Also finding a few playmakers that can not only run those precised routes but make something happen after would be great. I'm looking at Perriman and Camp to be those guys next and they both have work to do.

Despite the Eagles game, I think the Ravens run the ball more with a lead late in games. However that aggressive nature ain't going nowhere so expect to continue seeing the offense try to put teams away midway through the 4th quarter with a 10-14 point lead.  

25 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

I don't like the idea of Dennison being a quarterback coach in a offensive scheme that doesn't have Gary Kubiak or Kyle/Mike Shanahan as the offensive coordinator.Now if John Harbaugh wanted to bring Rick Dennison aboard to be  The Ravens offensive line coach or offenseconsultant then that would be better.  There are only three guys that make  alot sense to be The Ravens quarterback and that is Greg Knapp, Greg Olson, and Jim Zorn because they all have worked with Marty M or bought up under the same offensive coordinator as Marty M.  Mike Mccoy could be a good candidate as well but not sure how well he would fit in with Marty M.

I don't think Mike McCoy would be a good fit. He's more in the mold of a Cam Cameron, so much of what he asks from his QBs is holding the ball, staying patient and allowing things to develop. Of course i'm just guessing here because I don't know the guy just know he comes from that same system we had back in 08-12'

If the Ravens are gonna be true to this WCO which according to Harbs they feel it best suits Flacco, they need a QB coach that's not only very familiar with the WCO but preferably someone who either was a QB in the WCO or coached QBs a long time in the WCO. I think the biggest hurdle for Flacco to get over this offseason is understanding that the WCO passing game is directly tied to your feet. It's not about arm strength it's about your feet being on time with the routes being run. Secondly, even though the WCO is about timing and precision, you still have to patiently move through your reads. He sped through far too often this year. I think he needs a QB coach who can not only help him with mechanic and reads but also someone who has actually played/gameplan vs almost any defense you can throw at the WCO. For this reason I'd like to see Greg Knapp as the QB coach if fired by Denver. 

1 hour ago, FlocksGottaFeed said:

Does Our Organization Really Want to "Help Joe"? Really?

Here's the deal: If we really wanted to help Joe the 1st thing to do is to acknowledge and accept who he is. He will never likely be a top-tier QB by the end of his career. He is a reasonably efficient QB who if put in the right conditions can have 'top-tier' QB games from time to time. I'm still a fan of Joe's, but I think our organization is completely missing the boat on what it would take to elevate his play and make it more consistent. More play makers, coaching continuity and dedication are good, reasonable wishes, but Joe's more important need is urgency. It's mental beyond everything else.

1. Firstly, have him admit to himself that he's not a top-tier QB currently although he's had a few great games (playoffs and SB). This will only challenge him to work harder to get to that goal and/or humble him enough to know that he must sacrifice enough to help the entire offensive unit to become top-tier. This may mean giving-up some of his salary to procure more talent around him (i.e. - Brady).

2. Coaching/Continuity: The Marty-thing was a mistake. It won't help Joe to get there at all. The best move would have been to keep Marty as a QB Coach (only). That's adequate continuity. He should have just remained as a season fill-in and continue his earlier role because of his amicable relationship with Joe, but change is needed.

3. Bring-in a new OC that runs the current system, but lights a fire under Joe and doesn't allow him to dictate his play, scheme or even allow him to over-assess his development. Start with the most difficult variations of the current scheme during the off-season and stay with them.

4. Lastly, address his ego before it's too late. Yes, Joe has a huge ego. Examples of this are the "I don't want to be lining up at Z and X. I want to line up behind center..." wildcat rant even though the play averaged over 10 yards per attempt, on the ELITE question "I mean, I think I’m the best," he said back then. "I don’t think I’m top-five, I think I’m the best. I don’t think I’d be very successful at my job if I didn’t feel that way. I mean, come on." and his consistent insistence on not audibly out of bad play calls, work with the entire receiving core and skill players during off-seasons and generally not accepting critic even when it's due.

This said, it's mental. If the organization wants to truly help this soon to be 10 year veteran QB and elevate the team as well, challenge is resolve - don't pander to his comfort-zone. He performs better in that role and so does the rest of the team.

All this is well written and I'm sure you'll get a ton of people to agree with you, but I couldn't disagree more. 

1. You are talking about admitting he's not top tier. Are you serious? Can you imagine how little respect he'd get from his teammates? If you're saying he needs to put in more work to be as good as he wants to be than great, but "admit to himself he's not top tier" why even play the game if you don't think you are as good as the next man? Also let's not make Brady out to be such a great team guy. The Patriots came to him and ask him to restructure his deal, but he was always paid the same amount of money in the end. He didn't "give up any salary" No different than Flacco restructuring his contract this year, which he didn't have to do btw. Flacco's exact words. 

Quote

"We've got a bunch of good players and we've got a great foundation already but with the way the deal was before I mean it might not have been this year but at some point there was gonna be a strain on what we could do and what kind of guys we could bring in," Flacco noted. "You don't wanna see any of the guys on your team have to be let go because of some issue with the cap and I wanted to play here.

I wanted to play here, I want to play here, continue to play here for a long time. So getting something done I just felt like it helped out you know a couple things. It keeps me here for a long time and it also allows us to go do some things that you know we may need to do and it allows us to keep guys that we might have to think about doing things with if we didn't get anything done."

Futhermore, Flacco saving the Ravens cap money allowed them to make a competitive offer to KO but the deal he signed just wasn't smart for the Ravens, especially if he wasn't gonna be a LT. Since signing Flacco to the huge deal, the Ravens have signed, Yanda(15'), Monroe(14'), Weddle(16') Wallace(16') Watson(16') Jimmy(15'), SSS(14') Zuttah(15'). None of these players were fall back options for the Ravens. They were guys the Ravens wanted, so who exactly how has Flacco handicapped the Ravens? QYeah they weren't able to sign KO and Torrey but it wasn't because of Flacco's contract. Now of course Flacco's cap number has some impact on the team's ability to shell big money to some guys, simple because you can't sign everyone but i'm sure much like Brady if the Ravens approach Flacco about getting most of his salary in bonus money to save cap he would because it costs him nothing. 

3. Just doesn't make sense to me. Your QB has to have input in the offense. Furthermore, the only time the offense seemed to really click is when Flacco was running things at the LOS. So why wouldn't you just go into the offense focused on him mastering Marty's system and working with his young WRs/TEs to get everyone on the same page as much as possible before offseason workouts. Also, by all reports that i've seen on the matter Marty is exactly the type of coach you described. He's a no nosense type of guy that isn't afraid to get in his QBs or HCs face to get his point across.

4. Are you kidding me? Seriously? I know Flacco had a down season and he'll probably get beat up all offseason until he performs well next season, but you can't be serious with this. Address his ego? What NFL player doesn't have a ego? I'll tell you the guy that isn't any good, that guy that's just happy to make the PS squad is a guy that doesn't have a ego. Did you hear what Aiken about knowing he's a starter in the NFL? Did you read the reports or see the reactions of Wallace and SSS when they wanted the ball? Have you ever heard Ray Lewis or Ed Reed speak? His ego is out of hand because he didn't want to be a wildcat QB? Really? Not to mention that was a full 7 years ago. Again what professional would not think they are the best, even if they know the next man is better? How would you really react if Flacco went into a big game vs Brady or Ben and said. Yeah I know i'll never be able to go out and have my offenses play to the level that those guys well, I just hope they make a few mistakes, so we can keep the game competitive lol. I'm sorry but i want every single one of my players thinking they are the best at their position and giving their teammates that confidence as well. 

13 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

That's a lot of ifs. I do agree we need to address the center position in the draft. Zuttah is holding the line back. I do also subscribe to the notion that even though Marty had a tendency to be pass happy, the run blocking wasn't amazing either. We have two guys who I think are good(I think Dixon is a future franchise back). We have a few talented young TEs. We need another WR, but I like what I see from Breshad. But we don't ever resort to using them. That's why I'm worried. 

 

I hope you're right lol, I'm a die hard fan of the team, and even if I don't support what Ozzie/Harbs and co. are doing, they're better than all of us at it. 

 

We need to hire Dennison as QB coach or something... Hell, I'll take Zorn back, he's unemployed right?

What's the infatuation with Dennison? From my view point he was the helper to a former QB in Kubiak. Even when he was here it was Kubes who worked daily with Flacco, Dennison was basically the guy that taught the offense to the other coaches. I'm not sure he's the guy you want to hand Flacco over to. 

I don't think the pass happy tendency is going away and I don't think it should. You need to throw the ball to win in this league imo. However what I feel they need to do is take advantage of other teams weaknesses better, hit on more big plays and score in the redzone. This will put more points on the board early and allow the offense to run the ball more. But Flacco is going to throw the ball 38-40 times each game no doubt. I 

I'm of the think that the offense wasn't a bad as it looked. Guys just weren't on the same page and you hope that's something that will be rectified by having a full offense to learn the offense. 

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

I can agree with that.  I've always been one to pin blame on players much more than the coaches.  Marty isn't out there making the rookie mistakes at QB.  Marty isn't out there whiffing on the blocks.  Marty isn't out there running poor routes.  That's on the players and the execution.

With that being said, Marty didn't do them any favors either.  So many drives stalled because of stupid decisions and play calls.

I think my biggest issue with Marty was that Patriots game.  That was the single worst offensive game plan I've seen in my time of watching and understanding football.  It was so outdated and no adjustments were made.  You could consistently see shades of that game plan in the other games.  The Patriots game was just that pit of awfulness.

Agree 100% the Pats game was bad, but also Flacco misses a simple slant to Aiken that would have led to 7 points, instead Butler made a diving play and the FG was blocked the next play. That's where players have to step up and execute no matter the call. If Joe throws a accurate ball, the score is 7-2 and maybe the momentum doesn't get away from the Ravens and the offense might stay on track. Again not excusing Marty but I just feel both players and coaches need to help each other out. The int Joe threw in that game, Wallace has to make a play on that ball in traffic. That's not on Marty. 

I think everyone involved with the offense needs to be held accountable and have their feet held to the fire.

 I get all the backlash about this move coming off the season the team just had, but imo coaches can only do so much. These players have to do some soul searching this off-season and be honest with themselves. Marty didn't put Zuttah and Ducasse in position to have so many penalties. Marty isn't the guy out there not getting separation. Now does scheme have a lot to do with it yes, but I've seen plenty of times where SSS, Aiken and Pitta were matched up with LBs in 3rd situations and couldn't win. I've seen Dixon and West miss blitz pickups. How many throws that should have been made did we see Flacco miss? 

@rmw10 I agree that situational football has to improve. That's all Marty, but the discipline of the offense needs to improve. The effort needs to improve. Pitta just looked disinterested in blocking at all. That already puts you in a disadvantage in the run game. 

Marty needs to be consumed with improving this offense, but these players better do their part as well. 

11 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

And @Ravensfan23, you were right.  I wish you weren't, but you called it.  I certainly hope it turns out how you expect and now how I expect.

Yeah can't say I felt Marty was the best guy for the job, just wasn't sure there was a surefire guy out there better at this time. 

It's official Marty is here to stay. The question now is what does this offense do to improve?

9 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

He could also be demoted either back to quarterback coach or to some other area on the coaching staff.

Good point

33 minutes ago, BmoreRavens732 said:

Maybe there waiting for the annual press conference? I thought for sure today I'd wake up to a text message saying Marty is fired

Maybe Harbs will let us know something tomorrow at his presser. I'm guess his presser will start off with. 

Today we made the decision to _____ Marty Morningweg.

He either has to be hired or fired because he was only the intern OC not the official one. Back in 2014 they didn't start interviewing guys until the 2nd week of January and Kubes wasn't hired until the 27th. So maybe we're just expecting news too soon?

2 hours ago, rmw10 said:

That's the issue with him.  If he blocked, maybe you could find some value.  The fact that he's a receiving TE that can no longer stretch the seam though?  Not much value in that.

I think that's the biggest issue for me. He's no longer that move TE that can stretch the seam. So where is his value going forward. It's not as a blocker. He wasn't as savvy or quick in tight spaces down in the red zone and was only targeted 9 times in the red zone out of 100+ overall targets so he's not much of an option there. For a guy with 100+ targets only 37 of his catches went for 1st downs and that's among the worse in the NFL, so being a chain mover wasn't a strong suit. As much as I like him and still a huge fan, I just don't see how he provides anything other than a dumpoff option to this offense.

Because of the connection with Flacco, Pitta is often his first or 2nd read, but in reality he should have been more like the 4th or 5th option on most plays.  

Christmas Day is on a Monday in 2017

Is anyone else thinking rematch with the Steelers like I am? The game will be in Baltimore of course. 

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

If Moore could have got on the field more, I think he would have grown more. He had some disappointing drops early on but flashed potential.

I just got finished reading the article about Aiken being unhappy with his role and the the question becomes, where do you get snaps from? I would have liked to see Moore get more reps too because I felt like he was a more explosive version of Aiken. I think the Ravens will give him every opportunity to get on the field next year. KOR and see if he can handle multiple WR spots. 

If I'm Moore staying in Baltimore for the offseason, moving in with Perriman and taking advantage of every opportunity I have to catch passes from Flacco. 

3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I fear you might be right, and as always, I'll own up to it if it's the case.  I just think it would be an awful decision and puts Harbaugh's future in some very hot water if Marty doesn't improve on what he did this year.

I agree that the offense needs to improve. I'm not gonna deny that at all. But is Harbs future any less hot next year if he hand picks the new OC, say McCoy or Roman and neither guy really opens this offense up and gets the full potential out of it? The Ravens have to win next year, especially against teams they should beat or Harbs is gone imo. 

26 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

Id say we didnt see much of Moore, but Perriman and Waller, definitely.

Joe talked about putting these guys on a schedule in the offseason for working out together. So it seems like building that chemistry with them is something that Flacco will focus on this year more then any other year. I think with a ton of hard work this offseason that both Perriman and Waller will be huge next year. 

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I will be pissed if this team moves forward with Marty. I get the desire for consistency but that doesn't mean we should go with a mediocre option for the sake of it. 

I think you might be pretty upset my friend. As I mentioned to you before, I think the players and Harbs are big fans of Marty and what he brings as the OC. I feel that the Ravens feel this offense just needs to be tweaked not overhauled and I can't say I blame them. Can the offense be fixed by self scouting and the guys growing in the offense or does it just need to be changed all together. 

Listening to Flacco I definitely think they feel it's just an adjustment thing. He talked about how plays were missed here and there. He spoke about how the lack of deep balls was more about the defense taking them away or the offense just not converting, more than a system thing. He talked about how running the ball more is important but how there were 6-8 additional passes added at the end of each half that made the passing totals higher. He spoke about the identity of the offense just needing to be more aggressive, but you have to have the players to do some of the things they want to do. Certainly didn't sound like a guy unhappy with the offense as a whole. Sounded more like a guy that was fairly happy with the progression of the offense and excited to build. Harbs has a presser tomorrow at 11am so I guess we'll see. 

21 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

I wouldn't overthink what Flacco and Pitta said. Jeff Z tweeted that they don't want to throw Marty under the bus. Hell, Dennis might not even be here himself next season. 

But they, especially Pitta were willing to throw Marc under the bus midseason? Flacco was willing to stand toe to toe with Marty at one point this season and now all of the sudden when the season is over you don't wanna speak poorly against the man? I don't buy that personally. I think both Flacco and Pitta spoke their mind and true feelings there. Now does that mean Marty stays no, but we'll see. 

Also it would make sense that both Joe and Pitta would speak well of Marty, they both had career years under him lol. 

3 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

The fact that Joe didn't give specifics is really odd. Usually when a player is defending a coach he just comes out and says it.

I don't think Flacco was defending nor condemning Marty. In traditional Flacco fashion I took it as he's not worry about what's going to happen because he doesn't know. He wasn't consulted when Marty was hired and probably won't be involved in his firing or re-signing other than Harbs and Ozzie asking his opinion. So when reporters try to get something out of him, he's just gonna say there is no uncertainty because nobody has said anything to him. 

Just now, Deflated Football said:

I saw that as well. He's probably just being respectful. Marty is as good as gone. 

Says who though? Just a couple of reporters guessing? I'm not saying he isn't gone. But the longer the Ravens take to make their decision public the more i'd have to think he stays. HC and OC positions will start filling up really quick and if you have your eyes on a guy you go get him now, don't wait until the dust settles.