Ravensfan23

Yea I agree on all accounts. I always saw Davis as poor man's Ngata and I never liked Ngata at NT. He has a lot of work to do and I'm hoping this lost season opens his eyes to the fact that nothing is promised. The Ravens have about 10 2nd and 3rd year players that will need to crush the offseason followed by stepping up in the regular season. After Perriman and Urschel who i think will be the starting Center, Davis might just be at the top of the list. It might just be wishful thinking on my part but I'd be extremely surprised if the Ravens gave Wagner a top 5 RT offer, which I think they will and he turns it down. He just doesn't seem like the I need to be the top paid guy to show my value type. Not that there's anything wrong with getting paid, but he just seems like the Marshal Yanda type. Give me a fair deal so I can take care of my family and let me play football. I know what the popular thought is and as much as I like BW, top 5 RT is way more valuable than the best NT in the game. Give Wagner a 5yr 30+ million deal before the market even opens, so him you want him here and I think that gets the job done.

Yea it sucks, especially with those guys inside the division. I think the Ravens have made the effort by drafting Perriman, Maxx and Dixon Those guys have to step up in years 3 and 2 respectively.

Yea I liked the decision but would have liked the call to be more like the Packers. Run a hard play action to create movement and possible confusion by the LBs. But I love the aggressive mindset. I'm tried of this team playing to try and hold onto a game in the final moments. Score and put teams away mid way through the 4th quarter if possible.

So I'm watching the Packers vs Giants game and the Pack are up 31-13 with less than 4 minutes remaining in the game. After 3 consecutive successful running plays that gained a total of 19 yards, the Packers proceed to throw the ball on 2nd and 5 from the 9 yardline and it's viewed as a great play call. Picture that. Almost the same exact situation that has many Ravens fans pissed at Marty and led to the worse call of all times saga, it was viewed as a great play call by McCarthy. So what's the difference? Is it because Flacco threw a Int and Rodgers completed his pass for a 1st down? Is it because they were up by 3 scores instead of 2? Or is it just a case of both offenses looking to deliver the kill shot to their opponent but the Ravens players failed to execute? I never had a problem with the decision to throw the ball, just would have like a better play selection. But I'd be interested in hearing what some of you thought about McCarthy's decision to throw the ball in that situation

Definitely could see it playing out that way. Right now i'm leaning towards #2 right now. I think the strength of the Dline is in the numbers not individual players. BW is a great player but i'm not sure he's that much of a difference maker. You can retain key pieces to the core of your team with the money he'll command. Give me Wagner, Juice and Guy for nearly the same amount of money Williams will command and I'm great with that. I think the most interesting name you mentioned was Davis. If I remember correctly you've had a roller coast type opinion of him. You liked him coming out his rookie year but was disappointed with him last year correct? I think he's guy that has to develop into a player who can add to the defensive rotation. He and Pierce could lessen the blow of losing Williams but it's hard to really say either guy is ready right now. I'll be paying close attention to Carl Davis this season one way or another. I honestly can't see a scenario where both those guys walk and if they do, a top flight CB or Pass rusher better be coming in return. Even though they don't have a ton of cap space, I think the Ravens are in a great position right now because there aren't many big contracts coming up other than Timmy.Once those 30 year old big contracts come off the book, it's young guys still on their rookie deals who are playing the best right now. I'd allow BW to walk, sign Wagner, Juice and Guy who shouldn't be expensive at all. Than i'd cut the necessary guys to create cap space like, Pitta, Doom, Zuttah etc and use that money to bring in a CB like Stephon Gilmore to really shore up this secondary. I think Jimmy, Gilmore and Young give you 3 starting CBs and Wright provides good depth along with young guys like Price and Canady developing.

yea we clearly read that article differently because I read it as pure speculation on his part. The true is, history has shown that the Ravens will only bring guys back at the right price. So Williams might indeed be the priority and the Ravens make him an aggressive offer just before FA starts. But if he's leaving he'll be gone within hours of the market opening imo. The Ravens will know ahead of time if they are likely to lose out BW and would turn to Wagner immediately even if he wasn't the priority. Really don't see Juice being anybody's priority lol. Even as a pro bowl FB just isn't at the top of many teams wish list. If I had to put a percentage on it. I'd say Juice is 99% sure to return. Wagner 75% just because other teams will have big money and someone may be willing to throw huge money at him but I doubt it. I'd put Williams at 45% right now. I just think someone will throw a large amount of money at him and the Ravens will be smart not to compete. Bad contracts has been the biggest factor in this team not having great depth over the last few years and paying huge money for BW would allow that same pattern imo.

why not? He speculates all the time. Most recently about Marty being fired. Even went as far to say Flacco's and Pitta's comments should be views as them not wanting to throw him under the bus more so than a vote of confidence for him. I'm not trying to imply that he's not credible or discredit any sources he has, but it's just hard for me to believe that the usually tight lipped Ravens would allow any info like that to leak out.

That's exactly why it's continuity. He already know players and the coaching staff. He won't be implementing a new system, just his philosophy within the system. This will not be a start from scratch situation, more of a build upon what was started last season situation. McCoy would have brought in a entirely new offensive system and it's different from the WCO the Ravens have committed to run. So with McCoy you either bring him in and keep the system, thus forcing a roll peg into a square hole, which is a disadvantage for him from day 1. OR you bring him and basically ask him to teach all your coaches and players his system starting from scratch again.

Oh I get what your point was, I was just really pointing out that right now nobody knows anything. It's all opinions. If I was close to the team and had a twitter account people would be talking about how I reported Wagner as the priority. It really means nothing right now. The media's opinion holds no more weight than yours or mines. The Ravens haven't even had their meeting of the minds at Mr. Biscotti's house where most of this stuff is discussed for the 1st time among each other. So i personally don't put much stock into reports, stating or whatever from media members this time of year because even with inside sources it's impossible for them to know much of anything.

I think both will have big seasons next year. I know Boyle's numbers won't be great but the impact he has in the run game will be great and I can see him getting rewarded with a few big play action passes. But honestly I think it's Waller and Williams who will work together to help take this offense to the next level. Pitta and Waller were featured a lot in 2TE sets and I think that only increases next year with Maxx and Waller. No changes or upgrades need to be made at the TE position just get these young guys ready to see the field consistently and watch them work.

I wouldn't call that a report more so him giving his best guess of what will take place. No different then him and most everyone believing Marty was gone. Williams is the only Ravens FA that will command huge money on the open market that the Ravens might not be able to afford, so of course finding a way to retain him will be at the top of their list. However that doesn't mean that retaining Wagner and Juice isn't also at the top of that list, they are probably just more confident that those guys won't be a problem to re-sign. It'll take like 4yrs 8mil with 3mil guaranteed to make Juice the highest FB in the NFL and I don't even think he'll get that. So there isn't much of a point to make him a priority. With Wagner at RT, Lane Johnson's contract technically drives up the market value for RTs but i'd imagine both sides will realize that Johnson was drafted to be a LT and paid accordingly being a top 4 pick. I'd think Wagner at max is in the range of 5yrs 33.5Mil with 12-14Mill guaranteed and again I don't think he gets that. So that means even if those guys are paid near the top at their positions they could probably be had for a total of about 8Mil a year. Williams on the other hand will probably cost anywhere from 8.5-10Mil a year by himself. So finding ways to not only make him a competitive offer but structure the contract to fit the cap will take more man power than the other guys.

I agree. This is the biggest factor to me and exactly why a big part of me wanted to keep Marty around. He has his issues no doubt, just want to make sure I say that because I don't want this to be about him. But the system isn't broken, the players just have to develop better. The talent is clearly here, it's just getting these guys comfortable in the system enough to be the on same page at all times. I can't tell you how many times I saw guys running routes to the same spot on the field or just looking like they didn't know their assignments. That will improve with a full offseason in the offense, so I don't worry about that too much. But those guys must step up and play better going forward. In the last day or so I went back and broke down the Dallas and Pit games offensively. The amount of times that SSS and Pitta couldn't win against LBs were sickening. The amount of times Flacco had to hold the ball because Wallace and Perriman didn't run good enough routes painted a very clear picture of why this offense struggled. In the Dallas game Pitta was covered by a DE lol. I can't put everything on the coaches. If you give the offense a quality Center and a strong route runner at WR, I think this offense explodes honestly. I really like Perriman, Waller, Maxx, Dixon, Boyle, and 4/5 of the offensive line moving forward. Given his development and opportunities I think Moore can replace Wallace as a 3rd or 4th option. But like you said guys like Perriman, Waller and Maxx developing will be key.

Who says they didn't? Also I think if they did, the con probably out weighed the pros once determining if bringing him in for a interview was good or not.

Couldn't disagree agree more. Yes the players are talented, but the coaches aren't the guys out on the field. I've gone back and watched several games over the last week to focus on the offense and some of the on field play was down right pathetic.

That's exactly why he'd be a great value signing. His numbers would suggest he's a low level guy and very comparable to a guy like Aiken in terms of market value, but when you watch him you see a top 20-30 WR imo and maybe even higher with the right offense. He's exactly the type of WR the Ravens always get, Damse, Boldin, SR, but the difference is he's entering his prime. I have no doubt he'd be able to bring what Wallace did but on a more consistent level if given the same opportunities as Mike. He'd help bring a chain moving stabilizing presence to the offense and it'd actually open up more down field opportunities for Wallace. My mindset is a bit different from the masses of Ravens fans. I feel if you have a OC that has pass happy tendencies and a QB who loves being aggressive, just supply them with the proper talent to compliment this instead of forcing them into a box they're uncomfortable with. I definitely understand we need to run more. I just think building the passing game is more important in today's NFL.

Guys this threat has turned into more of a how to improve the offense type thread, which it seems i've contributed to a lot so i'm going to just change the Thread Title so everyone can freely post their opinions on how to fix the offense without worrying about going off topic.

The thing about Woods in the slot is the Ravens have the ability to move Waller outside and move Juice into the slot to make the defense unbalanced and it often led to WRs being matched up on LBs. For example tonight I'm breaking down the offense vs the Steelers on Xmas night and the first 3rd down of the game SSS is matched up on LB Timmons 1 on 1 and he doesn't win on a jerk route. That just can't happen but what i'm seeing is it happened far too often. I think a guy like Woods would definitely help or even a healthy Camp, just not sure if the Ravens can put any trust in him. Because of the TE usage Woods could be the #2 WR and still work out of the slot more often then not. He wouldn't have to be #3 to do so. Right now the WR room is kind of hard to judge because I think everything is based on Perriman's development which is good in some ways and bad in others. Ozzie, Harbs, Engram and Marty are gonna have to really break Perriman's season down and see if they can expect great improvement from him next year when he actually gets to go through a regular offseason. Remember life has hit this guy hard, from the injuries to the death of his best friend to the near death of his dad and we as fans didn't make it any easier with all the bust talk. Things should definitely slow down for him this year. If he improves his route running, I think he can be relied on to be a 65-80 catch guy with 13-15ypc and show real promise towards being a top flight guy. Crazy thing is, we talk about Perriman being #2 and Harbs making the comment of not really needing a #1 to be a great passing attack, I actually have the Ravens selecting Mike Williams in the draft if they stay put at 16. Talk about a 1-2 punch. They'd still need a possession type veteran imo.

I don't have an problem with Perriman being a #2 option because I don't really think it'll be that important to label someone the #1 or #2 WR if this offense is built the right way. Now with that said I think Perriman is a stud. I will not hide the fact that I have HUGE expectations for him next year. This offseason will be huge for him in terms of refining and adding even more strength or better yet learning how to play with that strength. So if he was #2 next year I wouldn't have an issue but I think he's a guy you're gonna target 8-12 times any given game. The question for him is does he develop well enough to make the easy catch to go alone with his spectacular catch so that he's catching 5-6 balls for every 8 targets. Woods would definitely be cost efficient, but also he's young enough at 25 for the Ravens to get him entering his prime and allow him to grow with the offense if he pans out. Definitely an intriguing option. Yea I don't know if it was a matter of the Bills never really maximizing his full skill set or what, but I thought this guy was definitely gonna be viewed as one of the top WRs when he came out of USC. I still remember that deep ball he burnt Corey Graham on in M&T a couple years ago. He has really great hands and tracking ability with the deep ball. Even when it's not really open he has a savvy way of uncovering, basically pushing off without getting caught. Ravens never have WRs that can do that.

I don't think the running game was as bad last year either. I think is its just finding consistency and a commitment as you said. That's why I didn't have much of an issue keeping Marty. He has some things to clean up but overall there's a lot to build on. When I say magic number I mean in terms of where the season average will end up, not necessarily a number as far as game plan. There will be games where this offense only things the ball 11-18 times. That's just how it is. Fans will hate it(if we lose) but this is the offense we signed up for. Those slants to Perriman and Wallace were a big part of the problem in the run game. Because those plays weren't consistently successful it put strain on the run game imo because this oline isn't a line up and punch you in the mouth even when you know the run is coming type of group. For THIS Offense that short passing game has to convert at a high level to be ultra successful. The run game will just be a compliment, the question is how great of a compliment can it be. In terms of the team win percentage tied to the number of attempts Flacco gets, even though they are accurate I hate the entire argument. The reason is because the Ravens have never built a strong passing game, so of course when they are asked to pass more the success level drops. I think now the Ravens are building that strong passing game, but also have a running game that can get it done as well. Last year should have been that adjustment Year, but because of injury that season was pretty much a wash. Now this year under Marty was that building year. I think some good foundation was laid, it's about progression now. Oh btw, I completely agree that Flacco or any other QB for that matter, should ever consistently throw 40-50 times a game. I think moving forward the focus is improving the intermediate pass game and because of it the rest of the offense will open up. I think Dixon will rush around d 4.6 next year if the intermediate pass game improves.

Forgot about Doctson. Was a huge fan of his coming. I think he'll be really good. Still think Garcon is a big part of their offense moving forward. But let's hope not because he's definitely help the Ravens

agreed. YAC is really important. The WRs didn't run routes well enough and Flacco wasn't accurate enough for YAC to be as successful as it should have been. I think that's the biggest part of the offense that needs to be fixed. This offense has to thrive off of YAC. So the Ravens need to identify players that run good route or keep Aiken and him, Perriman, Moore and any other young WR working with Flacco as much as possible this year. In past years his accuracy being spotty wasn't a huge issue, but this offense is about precision so i'm glad he said he'll work with the young WRs during the offseason.

I'm becoming more and more intrigued by Robert Woods. He's a savvy route runner, physical in the run game and is a overall tough guy. This breakdown is one reason why i'd be excited to have him. But I think another move alongside him would have to be made as well.

I don't think it's a matter of do they have the money and more so what's the value? I'd love the move as well but at what cost, cause the Skins would be crazy to let him walk. Cousins will regress without him imo. But on the other hand, with Cousins in line for a huge payday, maybe they can't afford to throw too much money at Cousins. I wouldn't have a problem with letting Wallace go either.

Sadly some would rather stay ignorant to the facts and just lash about about foolishness. Fans need to make up their mind. You either want to build a roster around Flacco to help ensure 5-10 years of success like the Pats, Packers, Steelers and even the Giants to an extent have done, or you want them to continue to rent a team for 2-3 years and blow it up once cap numbers get too big? You can't have both. It seems people forgot that Flacco actually went back to the table with the Ravens to renegotiate when he didn't have to. He held all the leverage earlier this year and didn't have to agree to anything, but because he didn't want to team to be hamstrung by his contract to agreed. It was the Ravens, not Joe Flacco, but the Ravens who decided to structure the deal where they only saved 6Mil in cap space for 2016. They could have easily created more money up front with this deal, but the reason they didn't is because they didn't want to make the mistake of backloading so much of Flacco's deal and having that huge cap number years down the road. That is what has lead to guys like Ngata, Boldin, Suggs and others being asked to restructure or be cut. If people wanted to see Flacco's deal create more money to sign KO it just wasn't gonna happen. First of all it wouldn't have been the smart thing to do. Secondly that doesn't fit the plan the Ravens are putting in place. It seems like people often forget the long term ramifications of big deals. The Joe Flacco contract is actually a team friendly contract and other teams should and will follow suit in building their QB contracts this way. Flacco's deal allows the Ravens to keep the guys you are building this team with around longer. So instead of having 4 huge contracts on defense and the rest of the team is patched together, the Ravens will be allowed to make more competitive offers to guys who they've developed. The Ravens are building and Flacco's contract actually helps in this process.

Don't think the Ravens will be able to afford him any way. The Skins and others are gonna throw big money at him. Also the Skins had a pretty good years offensively so money would be the only real reason to leave. It might not be the popular move because most like to see the big name WRs, but I think guys like Britt, Wright, Robert Woods or a 2nd-4th round rookie will be the target. I think the Ravens really like Perriman(obviously) Moore and Camp moving forward.The issue with them is healthy and development, so if the Ravens can get a strong route runner or good enough possession WR to keep the offense on track, the offense will look much better moving forward.