Ravensfan23

Nobody knows, the Ravens keep these things so close to the vest. I find it hard to believe that he's a candidate(potentially) in town and we just let him leave without having some type of talks with him. I wouldn't be surprised if he has been to the Castle, had some unofficial talks with John.

Yea Harbs is almost like a clone of Mr. B. He believes in his guys almost to a fault. He puts trust in those guys to do the jobs they are hired to do, so like you said it's no surprise he has a lot of faith in Hostler or anyone on his staff but at the end of the day I think if Hos was gonna be the guy we would have just named him and moved on to identifying Raven Type draft eligible players. I think right now the Ravens are in a great position. The top 2 candidates imo Shanahan and Kubiak aren't getting much attention anywhere else so the Ravens can be really thorough in the decision. They could even float the idea of bring in both Kyle and Greg for OC and QB coach obviously only if those guys aren't getting offers else where. Get both and you kinda got a Ace in the whole for next year if the other leaves for a HC gig. But obviously that's something that isn't even on the table right now.

I'm sure the Ravens will do their homework. Like him or not, Harbs is very thorough about these things. When he says he's looking for a certain type you can believe he's gonna drill guys to see if they fit that type. Kevin Bynre's interview made it seem like Harbs has a lot of faith in the in-house option and anyone outside interviewing would have to be lights out, but just in listening to Kevin you can tell Harbs is taking all the time he can to make the right decision. I thought his comments about the Senior Bowl was interesting.

I don't pin it on Kyle at all, I pin it on Danny boy if anything. RG3 doesn't fit that system naturally so even more so then the injury you are asking him to be more of a pocket passer and he struggled. But even with the struggle you had Garcon put up monster numbers, a rookie TE break onto the screen despite only playing in 9 games and starting 4 and a running back that put of crazy numbers as well. So the offense wasn't all bad. How much was RG3's inability to read coverages well enough and how much was Kyle I don't know. I just know that when that guy has a talented QB that fits his system he gets the most out of them and Flacco fits this system.

The funny thing is, if you would have asked me before this week about Kyle I probably would have allowed the debacle in Washington to sway me away from him. However when I started digging into this guy, I think he's the right man for our offense. For year's I've been wishing ill will on the Houston Texans so that Kubiak could get fired because I absolutely loved that system. But looking at Shanny's system it's like he took the best of his dad and Kubiak and came up with his own creative style to the offense. I think he's the type of guy that likes a certain type of QB, but everyone else in the offense he can make them fit by using them to their strengths. I've been asking for year to get Flacco back into that spread/west coast style offense that he is comfortable with and If Shanahan is the guy he'll do just that. He has just enough movement at the QB position to allow Flacco to be the athlete he is and his play design allows us to attack every level of the defense stretching it both deep and wide. Unless he just blows the interview personality wise, I think he's our guy.

we don't need that type WR if we get a OC like Shanny who can actually scheme guys open. You only need that type of guy if we stick to the Croyell system because it relies heavily on iso routes and the combination of our coaching teaching it and our players lack of polish at route runner just isn't working.

That's your answer right there. I think the Ravens are fed up with trying to make tweaks to the Croyell offense. Yes Norv runs it better then anybody else, but outside of Pitta how does this team fit that offense any more? Yes with Joe's big arm the vertical passing game is great, but that heavy reliance on isolation routes doesn't suit Joe or any of our WRs. imo once we committed to the ZBS, the Croyell was being phased out imo. And for good reason

I'm sure if you dig deeper you'll start to notice a trend there. Yea I think there will definitely be some adjustment periods to whatever offense we have and whoever is running it. I think even if we promote within, which I hope we don't, it'll be some major changes to the offense. As for the article, I have no doubt there is smoke, things were rough there, but I find it hard to believe that Kyle Shanahan single handedly destroyed an Redskins organization that wasn't good to began with. It's like saying Harbaugh ruined Kyle Boller's career in 2008 lol. I will say the more and more I look into the whole Kyle Shanahan situation in Washington, it makes it tough to get a good read on things. On one hand he had some success but things weren't always good. But you can also look at the fact that he was never surround with what "he" felt was a strong quality QB while in Washington. Reports say he never liked McNabb even when he was in Houston because he didn't think McNabb was capable of reading defenses well, scaning the whole field and hitting the 3rd, 4th, or 5th option. He felt McNabb was a 1 read 2 read and run type of QB and that doesn't fit his offense. He never wanted RG3 because he definitely doesn't fit the offense, in fact that offense was probably the worse offense for RG3 to be in, but they of course changed things to fit RG3 instead of getting the right QB for that system. So it's a tough read, but I'd put my trust in the Ravens that if he's hired, he was able to breakdown exactly why Flacco is the perfect QB for his system and how he could take Joe to the next level.

Yea now I will say this about Kyle, he does appear to be a head strong young coach and needs to be surrounded by people who will keep him in check. So I don't know how well that speaks for him. Here's an ESPN Article about his time in Washington with some inside and outside opinions of him. The one thing I'll say about the guy's offense is that when he has the right players, mainly QB, he can run a really great offense. But when Schaub is the best QB you've worked with in your system, I don't think you're personnel is set up for a lot of success.

I think both guys are great teachers of offense. But I think the name dropping much like Norv is just people guessing what would be good options because the Ravens keep information like this so close. I'm willing to bet if neither guy ever coached him they probably wouldn't be mentioned as "possible" candidates right now. But if they were actual candidates, I like the option of Zorn more then Saunders. Again I strongly think we are moving away from that Croyell system and right now people are only throwing names like Norv, Chud and Al out there because of the ties to the Croyell.

Yea a wholesale change would be tough and take time but I don't think it'll have to be that. The wholesale change to the oline already took place this season with us going 100% zbs, guys like Monroe, KO and Yanda should be much more comfortable with it now, and guys like Gino, Wagner and Jensen will have another full offseason to work in it. With the WRs the biggest thing will be terminology imo because the we started to change some of the route concepts with Caldwell, plus I think going from a more stationary offense to an move up tempo spread type offense will be exciting for them and you learn much faster when you're excited about something. I think the running game will be the biggest adjustment, just because whoever the OC is will have to be on the same page as Castillo and how he teaches the oline. Then the backs have to adjust as well, Juice will probably be the FB which is another adjustment. So yea it could take some time but depending on who the OC is i don't think it'll be too bad.

I'll admit it's a lot of stuff in that article that if true, I don't like. However I also see a situation of the Redskins creating a monster and now having to live with it. How is your OC the guy that calls the shots of who he wants to have surround him as coaches, there is no way in hell Ozzie, Mr. B or anyone worth their weight in salt working with the Ravens would allow this to happen. It honestly sounds like scapegoating to me. Yes in the article the guy sounds like a brat, but if his father is basically given him free range and almost allowing him to act like the HC, then I don't see how it's his fault. He is the OC, how in the devil is the develop of Orakpo and Kernnigan his responsibility? lol I could see if the article said he turned a all world QB into a bust, but it was well known what RG3's limitations were as far as being a pro style QB. I actually thought he did keeping RG3 comfortable in his first year, which is much more then I can say for any OC Joe has had. Also it spoke about him treating RG3 like a JV QB, did you laugh at that as well? Sounds like to me he just coached the guy hard, which by the way he needs, but people think he's too harsh. What does he make RG3 take extra reps or something? Do he make him practice things he doesn't do well over and over again until he gets it right like the games best QB do? He is the toughest on his supposed best player, while ownership shows him much favoritism? Obviously you nor I know these answers but I would have liked to know what being coached like a JV QB is. Because if it's simple being coached hard, then he'll fit in perfectly with Harbs staff. Lastly, much like you suggested i'll take this with a grain of salt, simply because things in Washington was so crazy, this guy could have been a source leaking stories for Dan Synder to make the Shanahan's look so bad they'd quite lol. They talk about having a host of young inexperienced coaches and that's not smart as an organization imo, but that's another story, but that's exactly what Kyle did in Houston. He came in and went from WR coach, to QB coach to OC in a matter of 4 years, so it's not uncommon to extend the same opportunity to others, but again, it shouldn't be his call. Now if these same things come out about Kyle during his time in Houston then I'll put more into it, but coming from Washington, I just view it as entertainment.

I think it's 100% by choice. The Ravens said they were looking forward to making progress on offense with Jim leading the charge and as much as people say that's just coach talk I believe it. When I went out to their practice a couple times at camp, I clearly saw an emphasis on an more ball controlled passing attack that focused on the short and intermediate passing game. Yes the deep ball was still there, but I think Caldwell was making changes, then we saw some of those changes throughout the year but we just didn't have the healthy personnel to keep things on schedule. I think this year we were looking to finally put the nail in the Air Croyell coffin. Norv Turner was just a popular and seemingly logical name because of the Air Croyell system, many people linked him to us. However I don't think he was ever a option. If the Ravens wanted to speak with him they could have at least tried. Browns said they would allow him to interview the Ravens could have at least called their bluff by putting in a request and either exposed the Browns or gotten their man at OC. Plus Norv isn't the only Croyell coach still out their and if we were willing to give McAdoo an interview and he's never been a OC before, I'm sure we would have been willing to give another young coach from that Croyell tree a shot if that was truly our focus. I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas now that I know we are almost guaranteed to move away from the Croyell system. Our offense at least has a fighting chance to be on a even playing field with others now. I don't know who the OC will be but I can't wait to see what he does.

what did you find?

I don't think he is coming here. I don't think we want him nor do I think he want to be here. It's not a great match and if you thought this season caused a disconnect between players and coaches or Cam wanting things his way caused issues, can you imagine adding Norv to this team and Castillo continuing to run a ZBS that doesn't fit what Norv has been accustom to for the past 20 years or so? It'd be complete madness. Norv was a great option 3 years ago when we were still committed to the Air Croyell, but once we started implementing the ZBS and we brought in Caldwell I think the writing was on the wall for this offense.

This is one of the biggest reasons I'd really get excited about Kyle Shanahan coming in. He got the absolute best out of Garcon and I'd love to see him work Torrey the same way. Torrey showed what he is capable of in the early part of the season with the shorter crossing routes we had him running, I think he was top 3 in the NFL. Torrey has just as much talent and potential as guys like Garcon and Antonio Brown but he has to be used properly. Also I'd be very excited to see him work with guys like Deonte Thompson and Tandon Doss as well. Now with a guy like Garcon you might say well the read option had a lot to do with this numbers, but they didn't run that much in 2013 from what I saw. But you look at what he was able to do for guys like Gaffney, Anthony Armstrong his first year in Washington, I think he works well with the talent he's given and having a creative guy like him would make Ozzie and company look much better at drafting offensive talent. As I said his offense is designed to get the ball out quick and Flacco is actually really good in that area when the offense calls for it. Also his offense would allow Joe to be the athlete that he is, Bootlegs, Rollouts, that PA stretch that just causes so much movement in a defense. Either he or Kubiak would be my top choices and I think Kyle is a little more innovative then Kubiak.

Oh yea I get that. I don't wanna make it sound like I'm saying Shanahan has to definitely be the guy, I'm just honestly excited that we appear to be moving away from the Air Croyell. I'd probably be excited about anyone coming in with fresh ideas lol. I'm sure Shanahan has his flaws just like any other. I'm a huge Sean Payton and Rex Ryan fan, but I can find fault in what those guys do at times. The RG3 making plays thing is tough because we just don't know is a guy is open and RG3 missed him and decided to run or what. If you watch RG3 closely he often waits for guys to come wide open instead of anticipating the route and throwing guys open. While you can see this watching a game live, it's best seen watching an all 22. I'm not gonna act like I've. Studied that offense nearly enough to say I know everything about it and who was at fault for it not working, so I'm sure that guy has great points and they'll come up in the interview. No way after this pass season we don't focus on the run game. So if that's a big issue he won't be the guy.

My biggest issue with Norv is that the system won't change. I see a lot of people say well look at what he did with Josh Gordon, but the thing about Josh is that he's a stud. He's a guy who is a good route runner but just needs some polish. As much of a fan as I am, Torrey just isn't that guy. Pitta would have still be a huge factor but what else? Our WRs would still need to run strong routes and they don't. Also I think the Ravens have committed to move away from the Air Croyell system. Commiting to a more exclusive ZBS up front doesn't fit what Norv and that system is about imo. They are more power blocking systems. He would have been prefect a couple years ago, but not now imo. With the commitment to the ZBS and the two candidates we've been linked to, I think we are starting too see that profile Harbs spoke of. A fairly young, creative guy who can keep up with the new style offense in the NFL. A guy that can relate to the players, mainly Flacco and a guy who can open up the offense, but this be able to use our run game successfully. Those are just qualities I think we are looking for based on what we already see.

My only issue with that is that it comes from a that doesn't have enough information to know what the play design was supposed to be. Also being at a live game is one of the worse positions to give an in depth breakdown of a game because you are in most cases giving your opinion on the result of a play and now what actually happened with all 22 guys. Also RG3 never fit that system to began with, which is why Mike never wanted to draft him. So trying to fit that sqaure peg in a round hole was almost un-avoidable. You'll either have a player doing something he isn't really strong at, like reading hot routes, timing throws and reading coverages all of which RG3 struggles with or you have a coach calling plays that he isn't as comfortable calling just to fit your QB. Everytime Kirk Cousins came into that offfense I thought it was run much better then with RG3. So that's my take on that. Also with the game where he went away from the run, how many plays were read options were RG3 kept the ball? How often were screen passes run in that 2nd half? How man times did RG3 audible out of a run and throw the ball? There's a lot that goes in to it imo. Not saying that guy was right or wrong and I appreciate you sharing but I think much more goes into it then just watching four games live. You and I could attend the same 4 Ravens games and come away with completely different views. One of us may look at the lack of execution and say that caused the play calling to look awful, while the other may think poor play calling lead to poor execution.

Me neither, I got that from a quote on ESPN from a DC in the NFC East. But I'd much rather have a guy who calls an unneccesary double screen then a guy who'll just call a flare route on 3rd and 9. Jmo. Also guys like Sean Peyton has a habit of getting too cute and Pass happy as well, it's just a matter of perception and success. You figure if Joe was asked to pass 50 times in a game but complete 33(66%) 350yds and 3TDs with a win I don't think anyone would be complaining if we only had 15-20 rush attempts. So while I don't like it, it's not a deal breaker for me.

Bingo. Much like the Orioles the problem with the Redskins starts at the top. RG3 runs that franchise now.As for Kyle I think it'd be a really good choice. He is very creative as a play caller, known for getting too cute at times but very creative. He can sometimes get a little pass happy but overall has a nice balance to his play calls. I like him because his players say he has an answer to every defensive look so they aree never suck in a bad play, they just change out of that play at the LOS. If that sounds unfamilar yet exciting it's because us Ravens fans don't know what that's like lol. I've spent the last couple days praising Kubiak for the job he's done with the Texans and mainly Schaub, but a closer look would suggest that Kyle had a lot to do with it. He was QB coach in 07 and OC from 08-09, in those 3 seasons Schuab never passed for less then 66% of his passes and had a career season with 4,700yds 29TDs, 8.4yds per attempt and 67% completion. This on top of the success he's had in Washington with above average talent imo, I think he'd be a strong OC for us. He fits the ZBS as that helps, you'd have to change the Croyell system which I would love to do and you actually put Joe back in a system that allows him to truly do what he does best. Oh also guys like Doss, Thompson and Mellette would be used much more to their strenghts in his system instead of being asked to be sharp route runners. His system gets WRs open. I would really like this move and get excited about it. There are also some NFC defensive coach who say he is very tough to gameplan against. He's player friendly(except RG3) so the players should really take to him and I hear he is detail oriented as a coach, sso our game plans should never seem like we don't know what we're doing.

Looks like the Ravens are at least keep all door open right now. Even though Ben McAdoo agreed to terms with the NYG, reports say the Ravens put in a request to interview him. That's a good sign. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000313273/article/ben-mcadoo-hired-as-ny-giants-offensive-coordinator Hopefully they have already contacted the agents of other OC candidates and informed them they just wanted to allow the Caldwell situation to play itself out.

Well the Ravens are known for keeping their intentions close to the vest, so I'm hoping the lack of available OC interest comes from not wanting to put Caldwell in a bad spot and not just because we're committed to promote within. As for being willing to coach here, I'm sure they would be. Even though our offenses haven't been all that great, you probably know as a coach that Ozzie and Eric will supply you with enough quality players to have success, and you'll be apart of a perennial winner.

Yea and the biggest thing working in to our advantage is we wouldn't have to change much. Yes the verbiage would be different, and the plays would be different but I don't think it'll be something way out of the norm for our guys. The biggest thing about Kubiak is that he's a guy that fits exactly what we wanna do in the fact that he can improve both our run and pass game. Schuab has put up really strong numbers in seasons where he's started all 16 game and while putting up strong numbers, Foster has rushed for at least 1,200yds, 40ypc 10Tds 40recs 2 Rec Tds in 3 prior to getting hurt his year. Also he's a former NFL QB. You talk about bringing in a guy that can work directly with Flacco and work to his strengths.

I'll say this a lot of Schaub's problems came from him just making some boneheaded mistakes which we don't see from Flacco. Yes the guy will force some throws that he shouldn't but I'm talking about a guy in Schuab who throw off his back foot in his own endzone resulting in an game sealing pick 6, or a guy that tries to attempt a left handed pass with the game on the line. If Schuab can succeed in this offense Joe will thrive. In this system Schuab has completed over 63% of his passes in 5 of his 7 seasons and it's not because he has razor sharp accuracy. It's because that offense creates so much space and even when working against zone WR either find a lot of open space or one on one matchups. I hate how many contested throws Joe has to make, we saw in 09-10 how accurate Joe was when he had guys who could get open. In Kubiak's system I think Joe could easily be a 65-66% type guy. Then you look at Schuab's passing numbers for all those stats lovers. In every season Schuab played a full 16 games, he completed at least 64% of his passes, throw for at least 4,000yds and 23 TDs. If i'm looking at building a team around a QB i just paid 120.6M to, I'm looking at these numbers and calling Kubiak in for an interview no doubt.