Ravensfan23

I wouldn't give up either but he's in an unfortunate and tough spot. I think back to that conference Harbs and Ozzie had with the fans. A fan asks a question about Camp and was basically raving about him but Harbs made it clear that Camp would have to compete even if at the return position. Now i kno that's coach speak in most cases, but it's true Camp will have to compete and OTAs and Minicamp is where most of those opinions will be formed about who's going into camp with a leg up. For whatever reason people around here think Camp is a lock because of his 9 catches last year, but in reality he's gonna have a dog fight on his hands to make this team and if 4-5 of these young WR really impress in camp while Camp is out he falls way behind.

Yea he dealt with some tough secondaries last season with the ACC and SEC and had some of his better games. I like the actual game flim video because it helps judge the impact of a play. Worthy mad a lot of big plays on the biggest moments for his team, even when defenses knew he was getting the ball. I'm very impressed and intrigued by Worthy. Not sure of he's still dealing with the injury or not but if he's healthy and can be solid on ST i think he makes it.

My pick to surprise as the udfa WR to make the team.

Right that changes the entire mindset and game flow of each team. Now the Ravens defense is back to playing with the same swagger they played with early in the game. If i remember correctly all 17 second half points by the Steelers were results from short field turnovers. That mishap by Webb seemed the only way they were able to move the ball. So the Ravens defense up by 4 points at that moment I'll take it. So in 7 NFL seasons Flacco has made the playoffs 6 times and we could legitimately say the only thing that has stopped him from reaching the Super Bowl in all six playoff appearances was, being a rookie, having a bum hip, two dropped passes and a let down by the defense. Now let me say i don't think that we had enough talent on offense to beat the Colts in 2009 even with a healthy Flacco, but we did have a chance to beat them in the final minutes of the game during the regular season so who knows. But Flacco has had an tremendous amount of success especially with the limited amount of talent he's been surrounded by.

Know i didn't find it a problem because i understand football. That's no knock to your level of knowledge, just making a point. In 2013 Marlon Brown started from day one and considering the fact that Jacoby Jones was the only other option to be a #2, Brown was basically force feed the ball, despite clearly not being ready. In reality his rookie season was horrendous. Go back and watch how many times he ran poor routes or the wrong routes. However he was better then Jacoby, there was no Pitta, Stokely couldn't stay healthy and Clark was terrible. They even had to bring back Doss who wasn't even good enough to make the team, hell i think you and i may have had a chance to catch passes that year. The offense needed someone bad at WR and Marlon was the only guy, so Marlon got a bulk of the chances. Fast forward to 2014 and you have a guy in Steve Smith come in, Owen Daniels comes in and Kubes comes in who loves more 2TE sets then 3WR sets. Are you honestly gonna take snaps away from Smitty for Brown? I'll assume your answer is no. So in that case your 3WR, which Marlon Brown was that means he'll obviously have less targets then as a #2, now because your 5th or 6th option in most game plans. Kubes wanted a TE and HB driven offense, he didn't even take advantage of Joe's biggest strength, which is play action imo. So now you have Torrey, Sr, O.D, Juice and your 2nd TE on the field a lot, so your 3rd WR is basically a specialist of sorts instead of being a constant fixture in the game plan. When you have more mouths to feed every one doesn't always get equal portions. 2013 the Ravens had next to no offensive talent, 2014 they had a lot of solid pieces. If given the opportunity Marlon Brown will surpass the expectations of him.

Call me optimistic or a homer or whatever you want but i say it should have been 4 Super Bowl appearances. I agree 100% with what you said but I'll also add 2010 to the mix. No doubt in my mind the Ravens beat the Steelers if Boldin catches that ball for a TD that the Ravens win. I know the way the game played out would suggest that the Ravens still would have needed at FG just for overtime even if Boldin scores. However watching the game, no doubt the Steelers had a moment of relief once that Webb TD return was called back and the Ravens had to settle for a FG in that drive. The way that game was going the Ravens had took the Steelers best shot and to go up 4 at that moment in the game, no doubt all the momentum would have been on our side. Then to play Sanchez and the Jets at M&T Bank for the Championship would have been a walk in the part to the Super Bowl. You put the proper talent around Flacco and he'll force people to view him as one of the best because he'll win more rings then Brady imo.

Yea definitely, i think u have a ton of knowledge and i appreciate your willingness to speak your mind even when it may be an unpopular view around here. I just wanted a bit more of your insight to understand your thinking because again i haven't watched anything other then highlights and lowlights of him, so despite how much i dislike it, I'm a prisoner of others opinions on Perriman. But at least i know you'll have an original thought. I've gotten a mixed bag on Perriman and like i said from what i see on the highlights i see a lot of coachable points but those points shouldn't be hard to overcome with professional coaching and hars work.

Yes everything can be taught in theory and maybe i wasn't clear in my questioning. Again i'm not saying what he will or won't be, as much as i love the Ravens, im not getting a check to feed my family from them so i can care less if a guy pans out or not. So my question is who or what determines the it factor? Im not comparing him to any of these guys but Tom Brady, Ray Lewis, Aaron Rodgers, Richard Sherman and i can go on and on about guys who didn't have the it factor until they actually got the chance to show and prove. While on the other hand the draft is full of top 5-10 can't miss prospects that have "it" but ends up missing every year. You are so sure that Perriman will suck and but all of ur reasoning is circumstantial. He's soft, well by who's standards? He's lazy and was able to get away with just his talent in college, well who's to say better competition won't bring out the betterness in him? Now I'm not attacking ur opinion or saying your wrong, but imo a guy having or not having the it factor is a cop out because nobody knows who has it at the highest level until they see them compete at the highest level. There are plenty of college football HOFers that never amounted to nothing in the pros.

We clearly didn't watch the same games last season. Marlon Brown was far from horrendous. Everybody wants to talk about how he regressed from this rookie season. That makes sense in the fantasy football driven world, but in the real world where teams are made and games are won, Marlon Brown was much better last season then his rookie year. He was more polished and sure of himself. He's always had solid hands imo and last year he improve on it. He had a streak of like 18 straight passes thrown in his direction were caught. Considering the guy only had about 24 catches that's pretty impressive. Also it was Marlon Brown that stepped up towards the end of the season was Torrey was slowed by injury and Smitty needed help. In the fantasy world Marlon Brown regressed because he didn't match his totals from his rookie year. However in reality Marlon Brown improved as a player. The only thing that regressed with Marlon Brown was his opportunities because a guy named Steve Smith showed up and he's pretty good. In 2013 Brown was targeted 80 times while in 2014 he was only targetd 42 times. In 2013 Brown had a catch% of 59.8 while in 2014 he had a catch% of 71%. Yea he didn't follow up on his 7TDs in 2013 bt he also wasn't targeted a single time while in the Red zone in 2014. You have a 6'5" guy with good hands and toughness i think it'd be pretty smart to get th ball in his area while in the red zone. You have him as #4 at WR, he's my #2.

At what point do u factor in pro coaching vs collegiate coaching? This is an actual question for you, interested in hearing your opinion. Because i look at a lot of what holds Perriman back from being that polished guy as very coachable. Ive said many times that I've only seen Perriman in highlights so i don't kno enough about him to give my usual insight on players. I watched that highlight or should i say lowlight video about what has held him back from being a top flight WR and most if not all was coachable now it just comes down to how hard the young man is willing to work on his craft. I personally think it's a bit tougher for track guys to trasition playing WR and that's what Perriman looked like a lot in his highlights. But ive also seen some things that if the guy puts it together he'll be special imo. So i guess what I'm asking, are the negatives you see about Perriman so bad that they can't be coached?

Yea Terrence has a very high football IQ and just overall understanding of the game. I actually think that's what slowed him last season imo. He was thinking far too much instead of just playing. I think his quickness, speed and overall movement will be improved with the surgery.

As do i. The veteran talent we've added to the secondary, mixed with the good health of returning players it'll really allow TB to shine in his style of play. He's not the ball hawking Safety that Ed was but who is? He's more of that stabilising force on the back end. He's just as likely to make a game changing hit as a game changing int. Because of the situation with injuries, i thought all of our young Safeties were asked to play outside of themselves honestly. Now with guys like Hill and Lewis planted firmly in their roles imo, guys like Elam and Brooks can really play to their strengths, which ultimately allows them to play to there potential. The injury sets him back a bit but give him one full healthy season and he'll be viewed as a really good player with pro bowl potential. See a lot of Eric Weddle in him.

The hope is that he's ready to go in 2 months, but he'd still have to hit the field and he'll be behind everyone else. Also the the 3rd and 4th weeks of camp is more so the time where u start to focus on game plans and where each guy fits in the offense moreso then prove yourself. Again the coaches may wanna try to retain him by going the pup route because he's no lock. That's a good question. By it being voluntarily and not much interaction with coaches it may not apply. Both Pitta and Brooks were dressed for practice and i don't think either is cleared for contact yet so both will at least start camp on PUP i think. I know if u practice during any point in camp u aren't eligible for PUP, but i don't think OTAs count.

It sucks to say this and probably too early based on the limited information, but i think this sets Camp up to be a PUP guy. That will give the coaches a extra WR to stash without putting him at risk for other teams to sign him. If after 6 games the coaches feel there needs to be a spark at the return position or maybe even a shot in the arm for the offense Camp could be ready. From a perception standpoint its not good. I'm seeing a pattern much like David Reed, without the fumbles of course. The biggest thing that hurt Reed was his injuries that made it tough to rely on him despite him being a pretty good returner. I Camp can return in 6 weeks or so full go but my gut says he's a pup guy.

With everyone drooling over Carter he's my pick for the UDFA WR to make the team. He was still getting over that foot injury in rookie camp so i dont kno how much of an issue that is but he's another deep threat type big bodied WR that will make an impact on ST. I share your excitement for Worthy.

Timmy is a flat out stud. As a Noles fan I was very happy to grab him in the 2nd round and wouldn't have batted an eye if he was taken in the first round. He'll team up with CJ to really continue the dominance our front 7 has had over the years. Can't wait to see BW, Timmy, Davis and Ubran terrorize offenses this year.

I actually have Marlon Brown with 75rec 833yds 10TDs. I think this guy explodes this year. For whatever reason he gets a ton of hate around these parts but I think he's poised to have a big season. I think Marlon Brown my be the guy who benefits most from the combination of Trestman and Flacco. I voted for Marlon, but I also think Juice will have a breakout type season as well. Trestman loves a mismatch out of the backfield and I think Juice is definitely that type of guy.

Yea I think i had him on the PS with my 53 so i'm definitely not sour on the guy, i'm just seeing a UDFA trend of overhyping a guy and he seems to be that guy this year. I hope the guy can make the team because he's someone the Ravens identified early on in the draft process and they generally have a plan for those type guys. But him being impressive right now is about as great a sign of things to come as Kyle Boller throwing a ball 50 yards on one knee. Once the full team is there and in pads these guys will start to separate themselves. Also in terms of the return job, Harbs and Ozzie said they still got their eyes on a couple options outside. That wouldn't be great odds for Carter to make the team as I'm guessing that RS role will play a huge factor in if he's apart of the team.

So three guys that no one is given any chance to make this team are Aldrick Robinson, Cam Worthy and Daniel Brown? None of these guys have any fanfare right now but i can see a scenario for each of them to make the team. How likely it is will be determined in camp, but i think each one of these guys are one strong camp and preseason from making the . Most people either see a competition between Camp and Carter for a spot and some have both making the team. But what about a guy like Aldrick Robinson. This guy is of that same Steve Smith build and style of play as Camp and DAC. He brings toughness, speed and a competitive spirit to the position just like the other two guys. He doesn't have much return experience but neither does the other two. The biggest thing Robinson has going for him is actual NFL experience. In 4 seasons he only has about 38 catches but they average over 20 ypc. I think he'll be given just as much opportunity to compete for RS as Camp and DAC. Brown is a guy that i view a lot like others want to view Waller. He's raw but has great size speed potential. I see Waller as much more polished then others do. Coming from GT makes people think he has a long way to go but i don't. Brown on the other hand is a guy who will take some time to adjust to the NFL imo. Right now he's nothing more then a big bodied red zone guy. But if he can showcase enough in TC to warrant a PS spot i can see him devolving onto a Malcolm Folyd type. I can definitely see a future with Perriman, M. Brown, Waller and D. Brown all have a role in the offense. Worthy is a guy i can really see being a gem and of all three i'd give him the best chance of sticking. I love his physical play as a WR. NFL.com says he's a guy who doesn't have the route running or quickness to win underneath so he needs to find a offense that'll allow him to win outside with his size and catch radius, well the Ravens have the perfect offense and QB for him. Right now he's dealing with injury and I'm not sure how he'll be able to perform in camp. However when he does get a chance to showcase his talent i think he'll Ravens fans. None of these guys might not make the roster but all three will make it though for the guys that do make the team and that only means good things for the Ravens

I love how DeAndre Carter has such fanfare and some even think he's a lock to make the team. I'm intrigued by the guy but lets see him play first. We hear the same story evey year from an undrafted guy only to see that guy cut before the 53 is announced. Then there's always a guy like Zach Orr who just goes to work and nobody talks about them until they make the final roster. DeAndre Carter is quickly becoming the equivalent of Sammy Seamster last season. All the hype from fans only to get cut, while a guy like Brennen Beyer makes the roster.

Much has changed indeed. lol. I'm not really saying that Camp or Carter if he makes it(not sold) will not get any playing time because I think they will. I just don't see them being feature in the offense in the slot to the potential that a guy like Camp could be. Camp has a unique talent and if he stays healthy Trestman will definitely be able to use that talent, I just don't know if Camp will either be a focal point of the game plan. I just see Brown Perriman and Smith getting most of the opportunities at WR, with the likes of Maxx, Juice, Pitta, Gilmore, Forsett/Buck picking up the majority of the remaining catches. With Waller and Camp bring up the rear. That's just how I see it right now, but the preseason could really change the way I see this offense.

Yea i definitely believe we will see a lot of 3WR sets because we already have the personnel for it as a guys like Brown and Smith Sr can work both inside and out. My point for brining up Trestman's history was because he doesn't have a history of utilizing the 4th and 5th WRs. So if you have guys like Camp or Carter as your 6th and 7th WRs both guys can't be labeled RS imo and id they aren't seeing the field on offense that's exactly what they are. Just RS. I realy think Juice breaks out in this offense. Talk about using a mismatch against base defenses, that guy could be huge.

Here's my stab at it. QBs(2) Flacco, Schuab RBs(3) Forsett, LT, Buck FB(1) Juice WR(5) Perriman, Brown, Smith Sr, Waller, Camp TE(4) Pitta, Williams, Gilmore Boyle Oline (9) Monroe, KO, Zattah, Yanda, Wagner, Hurst, Urschel, Myers DL(6) BW, Timmy, Davis, Guy, Urban, Tyson, OLB/DE(5) Suggs, Doom, Upshaw, Smith, Means ILB(4) Buck, CJ, Orr, Brown, CB(6) Smith, Webb, KA, Walker, Melvin, S(4) Hill, Lewis, Elam, Levine ST(4) Tucker, Koch, Cox, Ajax I got Brooks on the Pup obviously. I have Tyson and the productive youth of Urban and Guy pushing Canty off the roster. I have Jacobs, Perry, Worthy, Balwdin and KLM all battling hard for roster spot and having a great shot at knocking someone off the roster.

Oh i definitely think that's in the works for Waller, especially considering Harbs all but said that's apart of the plan for him. But even with that role i can't see more then 8-12 catches in the offense and that's an even worse sign for a guy like Camp. Call me crazy but i can honestly see the team only keeping 5 WRs because it'll be tough for even Aiken to make the team imo. Yea he did well on ST last year but i don't think that means as much as people tend to think with Harbs. It wasn't enough to save Laquan Williams. This is a very talent and young team. Couldn't be more excited to see these guys compete

I think the 7 WR thing is very very optimistic. As talented as the WR group is some tough decisions will have to be made. I've dug into Marc Trestman's coaching past a bit. During every run he had as a NFL play caller, hes never used his 3rd WR as much. In only two season, with the Raiders and Bears, did he have a 3rd WR catch more then 25 passes. That was Jerry Porter and Earl Bennett. In most of his 8 seasons calling plays in the NFL, i only went back to 1998, be only had 4 players produce 30+ catches on the team. It was always 2 WRs a TE and a RB. In many of the seasons the 5th and 6th pass catchers were TEs and RB/FB. So what that says to me is that Trestman doesn't really open the up often. Staying true to his comments after Mad Maxx was drafted, he looks to keep defenses in there base sets as much as possible and move them with play action and creativity. Because of this i can honestly see an emphasis placed on getting guys like Juice, Gilmore and Boyle involved in the offense much more the the likes of Aiken, Camp, Carter or Waller. That doesn't even count a guy like Buck who could see plenty opportunities in the pass game as a backup. The more and more i think about it there arent many ways i can see the Ravens even considering keeping 7 WRs especially if Trestman stays true to form. He'll use more 2TE sets and get Juice more involved making guys like Camp nearly obsolete in the offense. How do you validate keeping a 7th WR when you could find so much more value from an extra DB, DL or even a young pass rusher? It's gonna be interesting to see how this 53 shakes out