Ravensfan23

I think what Mr. B helped do was take fans inside the thinking of he and the team. I've put my respect for Mr. B as a business man on full display and he only make me respect him more. He sat in front of a group of reporters who seemed more interesting in finding out when someone would lose their job rather than finding out about the team in some cases and was as honest as you'll see from most owners. ' For him to paint that picture of what the team thought they'd get from Wright but didn't was great. I think sometimes as fans we think that every move the team makes should pan out and the reality is that sometimes you just miss. I love how he described the 2013 draft. Yes Ozzie missed on the 1st and 2nd round picks but that same drafted came away with the best NT and FB in the NFL and a top 10 RT who could easily develop into a top 5 guy. That's a pretty special draft for most people, but Ozzie has set such a standard and we the fans make sure to hold him to it. He didn't have to open up about the Boldin situation but he did and that little tidbit should help fans understand how sometimes tough decisions have to be made. I bring that up because I think that type of decision will come up this year with both Pitta and Doom, maybe even Webb as well. I love the way he spoke about how he loves his partners in Ozzie, Harbs and co and trust those guys. If running a NFL team is anything like running a business, it's rare to have a core group that absolutely loves working with each other but can also hold each other accountable for when things don't get done. The Ravens have a strong FO team and most teams hit a rough patch or two. The key is do you still trust those guys to get things right the ship. Mr. B talking about how the Ravens were basically a 21pt 4th quarter explosion by Pit away from the playoffs and how Harbs has never lost in the first round of the playoffs tells me he still trust Harbs to get the job done without a doubt. Lastly, because I can talk about Mr. B all day, but I like how he kept telling reporters how he doesn't really judge the performance of his partners based on wins and losses. It's more about what happened that caused those down years. Even though he wasn't happy about the 2015 season he basically chalked it up to injuries and he was honest to say that he thought the knee still bothered Joe this year. It's so much more I could talk about but I don't want to write a essay

I have no dog in the fight either, but what did either Ray or Ed say? I tend to listen and respect much of what those two guys say. But since leaving the team what did Ed Reed say? Only thing I remember Ed Reed saying about Flacco is he didn't think he had a handle of the offense in the 2012 playoff game vs the Texans and was rattled. What else was said? With Ray Lewis I would have taken the comments about Flacco not having passion for the game or being a great leader more serious if he didn't A. apology for the comment and chalk it up to just being emotional over the team not performing well and B. not only current players, but former players riding hard for Flacco in his defense. Steve Smith mentioned on many occasions about how great of a teammate Flacco was and said something about how it was Joe that made a huge impact on him after getting injured during the Chargers game and that possibly being the final game of his career. I don't think any statement should be ignored, But how many former players have to come out in support of Flacco before the same questions and statement stop being made?

Honestly I have no idea what your point is. The reason why the offense is less so than a complete new system as you say is because, wait for it......The Ravens have continuity in place by keeping Marty. What about that isn't clear? He's already installed much of his verbiage and concepts. Now anything new he'll install will be much easier to process by remaining players because they already have a foundation built. Marty Mornhinweg already has a relationship with the players and he won't have to worry about starting from scratch with his players. If a new OC came in, even if he was running the same exact offense with the same exact playbook, he would still be at a disadvantage because players and coaches can't have contact until late April under the CBA. With Marty right now, he can contact the likes of Perriman, Moore, Maxx, Waller, Lewis, Stanley, Urschel, Dixon, etc and let them know what his expectations of them are over the offseason. He already has an idea of how he wants to either use them differently or just expand on their role. He can get them his playbook right now and they'll have the entire offseason to learn it. A new OC just wouldn't be allowed to do this. Unless Marty is planing on tearing everything down and starting from scratch, the Ravens are benefiting from continuity with him.

I always find it funny how fans will question Flacco as a leader, but guys who have left this team and have no reason to publicly support Flacco anymore still praise him. Also I'd like to see some of the posters here get into a shouting match with Steve Smith and call him a apologist or homer for saying Flacco was still dealing with knee issues, or Flacco being in a different offense every year it tough because there is so much to remember, or that the offense let Flacco down. I want to see who's gonna be the first to call Steve Smith Sr a delusional Flacco supporter.

Uh his QB and HC has been caught cheating, almost red handed two different times and he's gone to bat for them both times. I think he'd be just as loyal to his partners as Mr. B is. In business you can't go firing everyone as soon as you hit a rough patch. When you put guys in position that you trust, you don't just lose that trust because things aren't going well. I always find it funny be it Business or Pro Sports, the people with the less amount invested into the organization are the ones who are always asking to see heads role. Having strong willed decision makers that don't succumb to the pressure of the few, is greatly important and I'm so glad the Ravens have those guys in place. Mr. B said it the best. If he listened to the 10% who want to see heads roll every year, this Organization wouldn't be as respected around the NFL as they are.

That could help but let's be honest, there are teams around the NFL with QBs who have salaries comparable to Flacco's and they are still able to add quality pieces. I'll take the Packers for example. They made ARod the highest paid QB and proceeded to pay Cobb and Nelson a combined 28 million to stay a in back to back years. That mean when ARod got paid in 2013, they paid Nelson in 14' and Cobb in 15'. Not to mention despite Rodgers being arguably the games most talented QB, they used a 2nd pick on Lacey in 2013 and they drafted Davante Adams in the 2nd round of 2014. So even though the plain was to keep Nelson and Cobb in the fold long term(both got 4yr 40Mil deal) they drafted Adams to develop behind them So now next year when Nelson is 32 and his cap will shoot up to 15M, the Packers can cut him and still have a really good Adams in the fold who has already developed under Rodgers. The Ravens don't do this. I love what Ozzie has done over the years, but to not make a strong enough effort to pair your young franchise QB with the likes of, Dez, Britt, Nicks, Allen, Matthews, Landry, Beckham, Gronk, Graham, Woods, Adams and a host of other young talent is foolish and unacceptable. I was a huge fan of Torrey but lets be honest, he was a raw one trick pony. People like to say how long Flacco has been in the league and how he can't develop young talent, where is the young talent? A guy like Kamar Aiken was cut by NE, he was cut by GB but he becomes one of the Ravens top WRs? Come on! The Ravens have hung Flacco out to dry in terms of putting good to even above average taleent around him. When DMase, Boldin and SR are signed here, they should be accompanied by young WRs who could develop to take their place and not guys like Brown, Aiken, Camp etc. I'll admit Flacco has a ton of limitations. Will never deny that. Where was Maxx and Crocett this year? You can't develop or build a rapport if guys can't even practice or play in games. In the last 2 years, Gilmore has played in 17 games and Williams has played in 18. Perriman has never, I repeat NEVER had developmental reps with Flacco. Perriman has missed both training camps of his career and when he was healthy enough to practice during OTAs Flacco was still rehabbing and Moore is a rookie who was 5th on the depth chart. Again are we being realistic here or just tryna throw reasons to bash Flacco against the wall to see what sticks? I wonder how good of a combination Flacco and Torrey would have been if Torrey actually stayed.

Yea Flacco definitely has work to do. I thought he improved as well, but I thought he didn't have a great handle on the offense as a whole. This is one of the biggest reasons why I wanted Marty to stay because I thought with Flacco and his weapons going to work this offseason the offense would improve. Now to his credit Flacco said he's going to get together with the young guys this offseason and put them on a schedule to workout with him. I like that. I don't buy into the Flacco doesn't care or have passion for the game. It's just foolish to me and I don't entertain it. I do think with a strong offseason with guys like Perriman, Maxx, Waller, Moore, Camp and Dixon all working together, learning this playbook together and building that chemistry with Joe together it'll really help take this offense to the next level. I'm more than willing to hand this offense over to the young guys with Flacco and Yanda leading the way. I think the biggest thing for Flacco to work on is his foot work because with the WCO route tree is really tied to the feet of the QB. The Ravens just didn't have that precision needed and if you don't have those route runners that can get open quickly, you need guys like a Julio Jones that can just out-muscle defenders. People wonder why Jerry Rice was so good in this offense. It was because he ran great routes and Montana/Young were deadly accurate. If there was any offseason that forces Joe to improve his footwork consistently, it should be the WCO. So it'll be interesting to see how he returns in July.

That's the problem, at least with me. I'm not protecting Joe. He's a grown man and he doesn't send me a single penny to make excuses for him. I just like factual debates. If you are telling me that having a Julio Jones to throw to doesn't greatly improve your entire offense, I don't see how we can have a honest convo. If you are telling me that Joe needs to have a great running game, than ok I'll agree but don't tell me how poor Edelman was to make a point and disagree the fact that the Patriots weren't a pass heavy team in 2017. 11 TD in 11 games isn't fine enough, certainly not for me and I'm not one of those guys who will point out all the potential dropped TDs because I could just as easily point out all the missed TD by Joe or the opportunities he had to hit guys in stride for RAC that could have lead to TDs but threw poorly. Now if that's the convo you want to have than great, I'll gladly go game by game and breakdown every Flacco throw when I have time. But just don't come with the typical emotional argument that don't have facts to back them. Fact is 11 TDs in 11 games is terrible. But the fact is also that over his final 8 games Flacco had like 15TDs 8Ints, which would suggest that he improved greatly. Now the average of 1 pick a game over that stretch isn't good, but he generally put this team in position to win games during the second half of the season and had it not been for a defensive collapse this team probably would have went 7-2 over the final 9 games easily. Let's talking about things Flacco and the Ravens need to do to improve. Why did Flacco struggle so much early in the season. Do you feel he's regressed and if so, what do you see in his game. I just don't want to have the oh he's not as good as Matt Ryan who has a WR that looks like he was created in the Madden game while Flacco has guys like Kamar Aiken complaining he's not getting the ball enough.

This is my thing right here. If we are going to critique him let's do it, but at least be honest and objective on both sides. I can't tell you how many times I bashed Joe for throwing off his back foot earlier in the season, but he got better with it. The "worse call ever' saga I placed squarely on Joe because you still have to go out and make smart decisions especially in the redzone. Joe missed a slant route to Aiken for a TD early in the NE game that could have changed the complexion of that game. Joe being so quick to throw to the check down is something I've be hard on him about this year. But it seems like with certain poster, they bash Flacco without substance and when you challenge them, you either get called a homer or they don't reply at all.

Julio Jones played in 14 games, had 83rec 14,000yds and 6TDs. 14 out of 16 games isn't missing half the season. Not to mention the 2 games that Julio missed were the 9ers and Rams, I'd hardly call them studs defensively. I give Matt Ryan all the credit in the world for what he's done this season, but if we're calling a spade a spade, well. Seeing as thought both SSS and Wallace had better production than Sanu and Gabriel i'd say you're right to say SSS and Wallace are better, when you have a freak that can put up 300 yards a single game and often draws double if not triple teams, I'd say it's safe to say he impacts coverage for those guys. Again calling a spade.

Yea the weak division has a lot to do with it. But when he plays out of division he still plays pretty well. He destroys teams like the Steelers, Bengals, Chiefs and Colts. The only teams that seemingly give him issues are the Ravens and Broncos. So even if the Pats weren't in the East, I still think they'd be a strong team. Brady definitely has talent around him, i'd never say that. I was speaking more to the things he does with guys who aren't as special. I watched a offseason workout with Edleman and those guys work hard to make that Patriots system work, down to the smallest details. So I was just speaking to Brady's accomplishments withing in really great system. But he definitely has had talent around him and the truth is, the Pats have tried to surround Brady with 1st and 2nd round talent as well, they just missed on those guys.

oh no doubt and to speak to the point that starting this, the Pats built the oline to hide Brady's weaknesses. He can't handle quick pressure which most QB can't but Brady becomes painfully mediocre when you can get pressure on him. He looked like Kyle Boller in that 2009 playoff game when the Ravens got after him. So I agree 100% but never missing the playoffs is still special

I know the weak division has a lot to do with it, but Brady has only missed the playoffs like one time his entire career. I can't stand him, but I respect his greatness. It doesn't matter who he has around him, the combination of he and Billcheat will find a way to get it done by hook or crook

I often wonder the same. Typically I just read the comments and laugh because I already know when you argue your point with logic and they don't have a response, they'll just resort to calling me a homer or apologist or whatever the popular term is at the time. When all I really want is to have a sensible debate about players on my favorite team.

What QB can? Do you realize how general that statement is. Other than Brady who is arguably the greatest QB to every play the game, show me the guys who are carrying their teams? I just highlighted how much talent ARod has around him and he's my favorite QB so no knock to him. When is the last time Drew Brees has been to the playoffs? Eli Manning has 3 top 20 WRs to throw to. Matt Ryan has arguably the best WR in the game. Ben is fortunate to have Bell and Brown or he'd be run out of Pit a long time ago. The Raiders spent like 200M to build a Oline that wouldn't allow Carr to be touched and open huge holes. When is the last time Andrew Luck has 9 career playoff TDs and 12 ints. Cam Newton has a 1st rd WR, 2nd WR and 1st TE he's throwing to and still can't win a game, when's the last time Philp Rivers even came close to the playoffs? Show me a QB that doesn't need his team to supply with with adequate talent to win. The funny thing is I don't even disagree with you, I think the Ravens need to supply Flacco with better talent consistently, I just don't really understand the point you're trying to make.

I know this is your point but you still haven't proven it. At some point guys like yourself have to stop the whole Flacco supporters deal and realize that there is a large group of us that support Flacco as well as everyone else on this team. When he's good we say so. When he's bad we say so. When guys like you say he needs more talent around him than Rodgers and Brees despite the fact both QBs have teams that supply them with premium talent annually and focus on keeping as much consistency around them as possible, all we're asking or should I say all i'm asking is for you to provide substance to the conversation other than the usual Flacco supporters this and Flacco supporters that. To answer the question of why he plays better in big time game, You ever consider the fact that he raise his level of play thus raising the level of people surrounding him. How much better would his play be in January if he was throwing to 1st and 2nd round talent, instead of UDFA/late round WRs and TE converted from WR. Or maybe it's a matter of most of the big games the Ravens play in are playoff games and by that time Flacco and his teammates are finally used to the latest offense they were asked to learn? I honestly don't know the reason, but if your answer is he needs better talent around him i'll wholeheartedly agree, just don't tell me that he needs more talent around him than others when those other QBs are surrounded by 1st and 2nd round talent. So what does that mean than, Flacco must be surrounded by top 10 talent alone? Oh and for the record, my point was never how good Flacco is or isn't. I just pointed out facts.

yup. I just find it interesting that so many people want to compare Flacco to the likes of other top QB, which is fair because of the contract, but fail to realize the team building philosophy of each team. Imo the Ravens for years has put great emphasis on building a complete team both offensively and defensive, with the defense taking precedence. It's nothing wrong with that, but we have to understand that when the Ravens ask Flacco to perform up to the top guys, or should I say when the fans expect it, but I don't think the team really cares about numbers, just wins, Flacco is often playing behind makeshift olines and with WRs that most other teams don't even want. Honestly just because I know how the Ravens don't place much emphasis on the offense being top flight, I would not be surprised at all if both Dalvin Cook and Mike Williams were available at 16 and the Ravens passed on both, traded down to pick up a couple picks and draft CB Quincy Wilson in the 20s. Now that's not to say that's a bad move to make, it's just that most teams would hop at the chance to add premium talent around their QB, the Ravens just want to build the team overall.

You do realize that this is exactly what the Packers did for Aaron Rodger right? Green Bay has surrounded Rodgers with a host of 1st and 2nd round talent offensively and done their best to not only build a good offense but keep it intact for years. Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Lacy, Bulaga and Spriggs are all 1st and 2nd round picks. That's a total of 6 out of 10 offensive players around Rodger drafted no later than the 2nd round. That doesn't mention Richard Rodgers and Ty Montgomery are 3rd round picks. That's a total of 8 guys who the Packers have drafted in the top 3 rounds to surround Rodgers with, which doesn't include Cook who was signed as a FA. More importantlymost of these players have grown with Rodgers in the same system. I'm not saying that Flacco is on the same level as Rodger, but when people suggest that Flacco needs good players surrounding him and other QBs don't, I have to question if the person that said it actually pays attention to other teams.

I think when Flacco himself says he needs to be better, it's pretty clear cut to call a spade a spade. I'm a Flacco fan just the same as i'm a fan of this entire team and I criticized guys like Ray, Ed and JO when they did wrong, surely it can be done with Flacco.

Have the Ravens every had a RT worth significant money? I know Oher viewed himself as a LT and wanted to be paid like one so he wasn't gonna be paid here. I thought maybe Jah Ried could develop but no, I think the best RT we've had other than Wagner was Marshal Yanda. I can't think of anyone else.

I'll get on the crazy bus with you because he's more than worth it. He's gotta performance bonuses each year, not sure about this year, but this year may have been his best year. I'd love he and Stanley moving forward as the bookends. Honestly i'd be willing to make him the highest paid RT around 6.7-6.8M because the Ravens will be able to afford it over the next couple years. But I don't think it'll take that as I mentioned before. Make an aggressive offer to Wagner and i'm willing to bet he signs without a 2nd thought.

Maybe you don't understand the term of continuity. It's not all about the playbook. Marty has a working relationship with not only the players but most of the lower level coaches that will be on this staff. If you bring someone new in that mean new relationships have to be formed. So when Marty and Engram sit down to talk about what are real expectations of Chris Moore moving forward, there is already a certain level of trust between them because they both watch him in practice throughout the season and Marty knows the type of work both Engram and Moore has put in together. Marty already knows the players he'll spend all offseason building the offense around because he's seen guys like Maxx, Waller, Moore, Camp, Gilmore, Lewis, Urschel and other practice over the last 2 seasons so even though their onfield production might not have been the best he already has a working relationship with these players and probably has a general idea of what they can do and how he'd like to use them. It's impossible for a new coach to have this. Lastingly, although Marty isn't using his playbook, he was using the concepts and verbiage of his playbook. It's the WCO it's not gonna change that much. Some things might change schematically i.e more crosses, more screens, more deep shot, but the offense isn't gonna change. If you bring in a guy like Mike McCoy there is a likelihood that he changes everything because he's not really a WCO guy. So now even though there will be changes to the playbook, having the same coach that's been in your ear much of the last season, having a familiarity of how he runs practice and his expectations of things makes the transition to a new playbook much easier than if it were a brand new coach. This offseason will be about opening up Marty's playbook more than installing a new playbook and there is a huge difference. Oh yeah and no, I've never played NFL football before, which i'm sure most people here haven't.

This is basically how I feel about it. Don't have a issue with the mindset of being aggressive, especially knowing how even rookie QBs rip our defense late in games, but would have definitely liked a better play selection.

If the Ravens only offer Wagner 5.7 a year two things will happen. He'll certainly walk and it'll send a clear message that the Ravens aren't serious about building a quality oline. There are 8 different RTs making at least 6m per year not including Johnson and the top guy is Bulaga at 6.7m. Marcus Cannon just signed for about 6.4 per year and that's exactly where I see Wagner.

The Ravens were up by 10 points with 6:16 left in the game. It was already a 2 possession game and a FG would have only pushed the lead up to 13 which is still a 2 possession game. Even if you do take another minute or minute and a half off the clock if you don't score a TD your only up by 13 with 4 minutes still on the clock and a defense who has a habit of blowing 4th quarter leads. Meanwhile a TD pushes the score up to 34-17 and the proverbial nail is in the coffin. I can't deny that running the ball in that situation is the higher percentage and smartest play, but for people, including Harbs to bash Marty for that call the way they did wasn't right imo.